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Recumbent sidecar with the wheel [8th of 7] outboard of the passenger's CG and the passenger's pedals up front; no steering handles but handles provided on the side of the seat (and or a seatbelt).
Advantages are that you have 2 people pedalling a vehicle that weighs less than 2 complete bicycles,
but the sidecar can be removed so the bike can be ridden by one person (and not look pathetic like a bicycle-built-for-two with one person on it)
Sidecar Mountain Bike for flat track racing
http://www.geocitie...deCarBike_Small.jpg
With pedals on open sidecar. [baconbrain, Apr 20 2008, last modified Apr 21 2008]
Recumbent Bicycle and Sidecar Outfit
http://www.swarfrat...ide-hackSidecar.htm
Recumbent pedaled side car. [baconbrain, Apr 21 2008]
My dad makes these...
http://www.quadracycleinc.com
[RayfordSteele, Apr 21 2008]
My dad makes these...
http://en.wikipedia...ki/Sidecar_cocktail
[DrCurry, Apr 21 2008]
[link]
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If the wheel isn't right under the passenger, or where his CG is inside the triangle of wheels, you are going to need some very strong connections to the bike, to keep the sidecar from twisting off. And, if you do get those connections stout enough, the whole thing will be likely to tip over backwards, as described. |
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A pedalled sidecar sounds like a good idea, I'm just not liking this design. Do you mean that the wheel a unicycle wheel, driven directly by a set of pedals? Or are you putting in a drive train and a set of gears? [ ] |
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Using composites and light alloys, the frame could be made stiff enough - it's not impractical per se. A geared drivetrain, linked to and synchrobnised with the main drivetrain, would be essential. |
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Presuming that this attaches to a conventional bicycle, the third wheel should be outboard of the passenger and slightly to the rear, with a drive shaft or chain. That would give lots of stability. |
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//third wheel should be outboard...// ahh that's what was missing, thanks :) edited. |
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Links to pics of non-powered sidecars removed. |
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How is this better than a trail-a-bike? I have one I can put both my kids on. What I need is something that keeps them pedaling. |
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// How is this better than a trail-a-bike?//... you can carry on a conversation easier for one thing... keep an eye on the kid if that's who's in the sidecar... less likely to get hit by a train at a railway crossing... kickstand not required... |
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Oh, my! You neglected the tandem layout… I mean the newer design with the third tire like a castor wheel and the second frame assembly hooked and latched rigidly to the rear tire fork and the secondary power is chained to one of the rear-tire sprockets of the front bike. Communication is compromised, but, at least, it can be restored by installing radio communications to the helmets. |
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Anyway, sidecar is perfect for a quickie sweetheart kiss, so bun. |
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Now why'd you go and remove the links to non-powered sidecars for then eh?
What if a fellow's never heard of a sidecar and needs some frame of refference? |
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Oh, sure, kid [2 fries]? Why you did that so, [FlyingToaster]? That's ground for account deletion. Read the rules and regulations... something there is pro-kids... btw, [2 fries], does "some frame of referrence" a new bike frame of which links he just removed? hehe |
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//Links to pics of non-powered sidecars removed.// |
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As was said, some of us need to see what even a non-powered sidecar looks like. I know what a sidecar looks like, and found two images of pedaled sidecars, one of which was a link you removed--it's a lowrider, but it had pedals on the sidecar. |
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Properly, instead of removing links to pics of non-powered sidecars, you should have removed this idea, once you saw pictures of pedaled sidecars. But it's a good idea, and the bakedness is fairly obscure, and the pictures didn't show enclosed cars, which may be what you are after. |
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You do realize the the passenger compartment for a pedaler is going to have to be much bigger than for a quiescent passenger? Room for pedals, ankle action, thrashing knees, a braced back and handgrips is a lot more volume than is needed for some yob in fetal position. |
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Do you really think that after 200 years of bicycle crazies, nobody's thought of putting pedals on a bicycle sidecar? I found an even better project and have posted a link. |
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And while I'm being snarly, the title of this post isn't clear. Google for "Bicycle Sidecar" and you'll get a zillion hits. Google for "pedaled sidecar", which is what this is, and you'll get quite a few, though you'll have to dig for ones with pedals on the sidecar. |
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Bicycle sidecars are baked all to hell. (I've had a refrigerator delivered on a flatbed sidecar, even, in Indonesia.) Sidecars with pedals are obscure, but baked. |
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The only thing that I have not been able to find is a enclosed, or partially-enclosed, sidecar with pedals. But that's not in the description. |
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The original design was poor. When I wrote "If the wheel isn't . . . where his CG is inside the triangle of wheels" it meant you could move the wheel outboard, dammit. To ignore that and to credit someone else with a design assist makes me mad and makes me think that design isn't a forté. |
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So I'm thinking this was poorly thought out, and not researched at all. For that and removing links, a fishbone. [-] |
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//a vehicle that weighs less than 2 complete bicycles, but the sidecar can be removed//
But that is generally going to increase the complexity and weight of the vehicle, because you'll have some drive linkage to remove.
The analogy doesn't really hold with a motorbike and sidecar, because the sidecar doesn't have an engine, and can usually be quickly removed with a few bolts. [digs burrow, expecting 000's of JPGs of motorised sidecars] |
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The sidecar pedals can drive the sidecar wheel. That's easy enough to do, works well, and is baked. But the description doesn't specify, does it? |
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Oh, [FlyingToaster]. If you only get my tandem layout in exchange of your idea, a side car would have a whole new meaning - a chic volkswagen with a sultry chick driver lifting her sunglasses to get you into her eyes. |
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[bacon] thanks for the relevant picture link, that was more or less what I was thinking of though I pictured a standard bicycle. I did *not* see pedals on the pics I deleted, assuming the few people who have never seen a (motorbike) sidecar could google for it... on the other hand you should really talk to your dog about where he hid your meds. |
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[rotary] you're still weird and why do Wankels (or yours) have such sharp corners ? |
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[FlyingToaster], don't believe too much with [MisterQED] regarding the weakness in ceramics: its general brittleness. Bear in mind that there is "black art" in engineering ceramics industries. Just research about PSZ (partially stabilised zirconia) of CSIRO, and "near to net shape forming" of Taylor Ceramic Engineering if you would like to know the basics. The most advanced ceramics are in secrecy. Their price would only be brought down by economies in scale, but at the moment, they are shrouded in secrecy. Remember, Japan is leading the race, like a rat pack. USA is playing catching up, like a cat, ruffling the shroud. |
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I have to say that the recumbent design works pretty well. Most of the concerns I see mentioned here aren't really much of a problem in real life. The sidecar is heavier than the bike, but again, doesn't really cause a problem. The passenger pedals her own wheel, with an internal 7 speed hub. The drive train therefore is separate, causing no problems when the hack is removed. Getting the geometry right is the biggest deal, but I've been building hacks since the 70's. This one only lifts the wheel on the harshest of right-hand turns, and a little passenger lean takes care of that nicely. On fast, sharp left-handers, the back wheel breaks free and drifts before it'll ever rise. Like all sidehacks (sidecars) you can't ride "no-hands." The handlebars need constant dampening or they'll go into what we call a "head-shake." Motorcycle sidecars incorporate a damper of some sort, like a small gas shock, to take care of this.
It's not as fast as the recumbent on its own; increased frontal area keeps flat-land speeds to around 15-18 miles per hour. It'll turn inside its own width, and the low riding position makes it feel like it's going way faster than it is. The passenger having his/her own gearing is great -- at tricky intersections the passenger can be set in a lower gear for a quick
jump-start, and the driver can have a higher gear to accelerate quickly; all this with no missed shifts!
It's great for introducing not-so-fit folks to the joys of biking, and everyone who's ever tried it has loved it.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, the idea is a very good one, and works very well. |
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I'll take your word on it [+] |
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[swarfrat], _your_ design is very good. But that doesn't make this posting a good _Halfbakery_ idea. |
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As first described here, the pedalled sidecar wouldn't work, and wasn't new (except for the part that made it not work). As modified, it was okay, but not new. You and a couple of other people had the idea first, made it real and posted pictures on the internet--which makes it baked, as we say here, and is somewhat bad, no matter how brilliant the concept nor how original to, or very clever of, the posting person. Not researching is a small no-no, denying prior art is bad. |
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Making a title that leaves out the central feature--pedals, in this case--is also bad, Halfbakerywise. Describing the idea so poorly that half the folks reading it assumed the pedals hooked up to the bike's back wheel is also bad, Halfbakerywise and/or designwise. Starting off with an out-of-balance geometry is bad, designwise. |
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Yes, a bicycle sidecar is a good thing, but it's not a new thing. A pedalled bicycle sidecar is a very good idea, but it isn't new, so it isn't a good _Halfbakery_ idea. |
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[swarfrat], your work is brilliant, and to be honored. This posting is like someone else taking credit for your idea. Even if he came up with it on his own, and is equally brilliant, you did it first--it's baked. |
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A pedalled sidecar is a great idea. This posting is bad because the concept is baked, the design was poor, the description is confusing and the title is ambiguous. |
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Welcome to the Halfbakery, [swarfrat]. |
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[baconbrain] you still torked 'cuz I honourable-mentioned [8th]'s anno instead of yours ? |
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Fine... how about using a little grammar in your sentences... |
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//If the wheel isn't right under the passenger, or where his CG is inside the triangle of wheels,// |
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see anything wrong with the above phrase ?... bit of redundancy between the first part and the second part, wouldn't you say ? |
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Maybe "the case where" instead of "where" to make it a tad more readable. |
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There's nothing wrong with the phrasing there. It expresses, clearly, two possible ways to make the design stable. If you can't see that, you make my case. Thanks. |
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No, I'm not torqued about not getting credit. I'm a little bit steamed that you are getting credit for inventing something that others did first, and that you did a bad job of duplicating. |
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I am miffed that you deleted a valid and relevant link of mine, partly because I can't find it again. And because that breaks the HB rules. |
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What winds me up is that this idea is baked, poorly done and wretchedly handled, but you don't seem to care. I appreciate the folks who take time to fishbone it, and wonder about the people who give it croissants. |
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As for me writing relentlessly, well, I'm a bit bored, and I need the practice. And if you think I made an error up there, I need to write more. |
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Well, I can't be arsed typing alot so... |
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Your turn of the phrase in your original anno translates as "where the wheel is right under the passenger or right under the passenger's CG"... read it. |
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I deleted 2-3 links which showed un-powered sidecars... they were less relevant than the cocktail link. The ones (yours, btw) that are still there are relevant (though I pictured a standard touring bike with a recumbent sidecar) |
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"duplication" requires having an original on hand... are you accusing me of plagiarizing ? |
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Nope, it means with the side-guy's weight either over the wheel, which wheel is necessarily at the apex of a triangle of wheels, OR over a spot somewhere inside the triangle of wheels. 'Tis clear, thanks. |
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[FT], if you'll look in my reply to [swarfrat], you'll see that I said "no matter how brilliant the concept nor how original to, or very clever of, the posting person". I was trying to be polite, and to give you credit for creativity, even while pointing out the errors in this posting. |
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And no, "duplication" does not mean copying. Duplication of effort is what I had in mind. I could have said re-invented, I suppose. |
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