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Not too long ago I read a story about a couple of cave divers who were video-taping their adventure. It was clear from the clock on the tape that they were already dead and didn't know it (too far in to make it out in time). That's where the robot retriever comes in. Divers would set a timer on it
and leave it in the water behind them. The timer would be triggered when they were half through their air supply. At that time it would go after them, bringing fresh tanks. Finding them might be a little tricky. Don't know how well GPS would work underwater but a trail of RFID tags might do the trick. Not only would the tags let the remote rescue device find them they could also be used to find the way out (this trail would be useful even if there was no rescue device on the way - disorientation is a big danger when cave diving - the tags would be able to show them the way out.
Four Die In Utah Cave Diving
http://outside.away...ews/20070819_1.html
The many reports of this tragic incident three days ago, 8/18/05, would seem to be the catalyst behind the idea's formation. Nothing very funny about the event, and unfortunately all too common. [jurist, Aug 22 2005]
"I want to try to take him out"
http://outside.away...08/dave-shaw-1.html
A cave diver dies while recovering a body from 270 meters. An intense read, not for the faint of heart. [normzone, Oct 29 2008]
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Now I'll freely admit that cave diving isn't my forte, being more taken by cake diving myself, however to me the solution seems like a simple one. Half air supply gone: turn back. No? |
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If the robot was capable of swimming down to bring the divers more air, why not just have the little fella swimming alongside you the whole time? Then there's no need for electronic trail marking. |
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Oh, right, then I guess you'd still have to remember to turn around when half the air was gone though. The robot could be programme to start slapping you and displaying dictionary definitions of words like "dead" and "breathing" at the appropriate time. |
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Maybe it could perform a brief finger puppet show, with the underlying theme of breathing and its importance. Subplots could be of action and/or romance - something to keep the viewer interested. |
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Texticle - Good points. It would be more economical to keep the robot waiting until it was needed though (less fuel costs). The electronic trail marking is not only for the robot. A lot of time sediment stirred up by the divers reduces visibility to zero. An electronic path back to the cave entrance would take care of that. Also, many times it's inexperienced divers who don't pay attention to anything except their own clowning around that die. A puppet show suddenly appearing superimposed on the inside surface of their masks might get their attention though when their tanks were half empty, especially if the puppets were suffering a gruesome death by dying. The puppets could even have names under them - the names of the divers. |
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jurist - That event wasn't the catalyst. There's a cave on the Santa Fe river in Florida that has had so many people die in it that they've put a steel grate over the entrance. (People have still tried to pry off the grate to get in.) That's what inspired the idea. As you said though, this is not an unusual event. |
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The robot thing may be a little far fetched because of price etc now, but the RFID tag thing is a great idea. I am a caver (not a cave diver) and while all good cavers can find their way out without a string or whatever it is that spelunkers use, cave diving is different. This could also be used when exploring dangerious caves in order to allow a rescue team to quickly find you. The RFID tags could be hooked to a blinking LED in order to allow proper removal on the way out...
Again great idea |
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The price for the robot might not be as high as you'd expect - it would really just be a modified version of the roomba that people buy to vacuum their houses now. There'd have to be some re-designing of it of course (for one thing enough buoyancy would have to be added to make carrying the extra weight of a spare tank less of an issue) but it seems doable. |
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//Maybe it could perform a brief finger puppet show, with the underlying theme of breathing and its importance. Subplots could be of action and/or romance - something to keep the viewer interested.// |
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I would've thought that people would be interested to know that half their air supply is out. |
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The air tank should cut out for a minute when it is half empty. That should scare most divers into turning around and heading for the surface. |
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Bends lawsuits aside that is. |
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You'd think more cave divers would use rebreathers. |
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How did I get to this idea? Oh well. |
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Sport divers can choose to return halfway through their air, cave divers are supposed to observe the rule of thirds. |
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1/3 for the dive, 1/3 for the return, and 1/3 for emergencies. There are those that argue that even that's not conservative enough. |
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I thought this was going to be some sort of eugenics experiment: publishing a book that persuades dummies that cave diving is as safe for know-nothing beginners to learn in the same way that, say, Photoshop might be. We'd certainly lose a few fools that way. |
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I would no more go cave diving than... almost anything really. |
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I seems that the problem is that the divers don't understand
the concept of halfway. If they still use 2 tanks on their
backs like Lloyd Bridges did in Seahunt they should only turn
on one tank when they start out. When the air runs out in
that tank they have to turn on the second tank to start
breathing again. I think that would make the point. As an
additional safety factor the first tank should have a little less
air in it so there is a safety margin getting back. |
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I love this title. I am not going to go cave diving but it would be good to have a little robot track me down with things I need, like salty snacks or fresh socks. That PDA reminder thing is too much with the blah blah and not enough with the goods. |
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Really the cave divers need an airhose to the surface with a pump to supply them and someone trustworthy to watch the pump. Then they can explore at their leisure. If the pumpman sees cave trolls entering the cave or some other hazard perhaps he can shout down the airhose (via a special mechanism) to alert his danger seeking friends. |
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Review list of support crew for [bungston]'s name before each and every dive. |
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I tell you, accidentally leave a bag of cow pies by the air intake _one time_! and suddenly you become the Mad Gasser. There is nothing toxic about cow pies. They have a good country smell. Probably the smell is good for you. |
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"where IS that damn robot!" |
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a lot of cave fatalities are caused by changes in currents, injury, panic attacks, bad mixture, equipment failure, obscuring sediment, cave ins, lodged limbs and equipment, disorientation, and combinations of the above. A robot, even if it can find you in the currents, sediments and plain complexity of the cave environment (remember we have an expert human failing to do the same thing) fast enough (roomba my ass, those things take an hour to find a discarded sock) and you are still conscious and not delusional and still have intact equipment all it can do for you is keep you alive for awhile longer while you remain lost, stuck, or completely unable to navigate. A smart dive computer that maps your movements, heart rate, gas consumption, and distance traveled and gives you a graphical HUD in the goggles would be cheaper and more effective. It could even regulate the mixture to reduce the chance of panic and provide instructions for the return trip in case of light failure or low visibility. |
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I think the title should be [MFT] "Cave Diving for Dummies" |
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On the subject of cow pies, I have noticed that sometimes the last few tissues in the box are a different color. It means your are coming to the bottom of the box and should be ready with a replacement. Perhaps the last 50% of the tank should be delicately flavored with strawberry or dill, to remind the diver that he is breathing dregs. |
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it must be a soothing smell. Big problem with going to 50% or beyond is that any level of anxiety or extra exertion in response to the need for an expedient surfacing will greatly increase the rate of consumption which increases the anxiety re. surfacing leading to a panic attack, stupidity and thus near certain death. The diver must always feel as if he has a BROAD margin for safety and the smart diver maintains that calming safety blanket margin. Cave Diving for Dummies is either a Darwin Award category or what corpse retrieval divers do for a living. Running your air down below 50% in any expedition even if you think that you are not getting very far, or you think that you can easily get out, or you think there is no way to get lost, or you think that your return path will be shorter isn't cave diving it's a form of suicide. |
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This all seems very anti-darwinistic. Do we really want people incapable of understanding the "use half there and half back" formula to stock our beloved gene pool? |
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Why not? We've been pissing in the gene pool for years now, what with all this technology and medicine and whatnot. |
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Would not "Cave Divers Are Dummies" be a better title ? |
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1. Equip yourself with a limited supply of air, under pressure, and delivered by a fallible mechanical system. |
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2. Immerse yourself in (often very cold) water. |
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3. Crawl into a perilously narrow aperture, deep underground, in the dark. |
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Just to play devils advocate, why not give greater education about cave diving? |
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It isnt any more dangerous than most diving practises as long as proper training, advice and planning is done. |
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From [link]
“The people that wind up having accidents in caves are people who lack training,” he said. “They’re the majority.” |
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// people who lack training // |
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And how do you go about training such individuals, other than immersing them in very cold water and getting them to wriggle through confined spaces in the dark ? |
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You can practice the use of underwater scooters which reduces the load during free swimming areas reducing your air usage. |
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You can practise removing and replacing kit underwater (in a pool) so that you are able to get through smaller areas. |
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Training can involve theory sessions on planning and technique. |
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Stage bottles increase your available air but change the weight requirement and so must be practised with before hand |
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Drysuits keep you warm but allow air to migrate around your body and so must be practised with before hand |
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The problem is ALL of this should be practised in a safe environment before being used in an unsafe environment. |
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