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As guardians of peace of mind, extend virus scanners to look after all your stuff.
"Look, you have a crappy external drive made by xyz that you leave on all the time. Consumer reports predict those things fail within 2 years and you are 1 month overdue. Now do you want to lose all your stuff or what
?"
"You've been using that cheap brand USB pen drive consistently and it only has a few write cycles left. I sure hope you have a backup of all your passwords and critical documents, but based on what I know, you don't."
Insert potential up-selling here.
[Product can be upgraded with a variety of voice styles. We sincerely apologise for the default "irritable programmer" scheme]
Bot Nets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botnet
Or is your machine a zombie? [Aristotle, Jun 23 2009]
Shadowserver
http://www.shadowserver.org/wiki/
Cyber security gurus. [DrBob, Jun 23 2009]
Windows Firewall
http://www.funnal.c...ndows-firewall.html
[spidermother, Jun 26 2009]
[link]
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Crouching virus scanner, Hidden virus |
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It's hard to see how you're planning on extending a byte-
pattern matching program to do all of this unrelated
functionality. The last time I ran a virus scanner (clamXav) it
spent all its time downloading new definitions, then
downloading a new version of the app, then installing a new
version of the 'engine'. It was just to scan a usb memory stick
that someone claimed had a virus on. About half an hour
later it was all up and running and ready to scan the media. |
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I've never run a virus scanner I liked, or that didn't slow everything down, or somehow manage to c*ck something up or otherwise get in the way somehow. |
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Do we, really, need virus scanners? |
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I know the latest versions of Windows have a little popup thing that nags us to spend more of our money on their software - and the virus scanner people are always reminding us how vulnerable we are - two reliable and *entirely* unbiased sources of information about viruses and the need to scan them - but, really, as long as we're sensible and engage in a gentle sort of Internet Celibacy (no peer-to-peer, no 'warez', no opening of files sent to us by randoms) then you don't really need to host a virus scanner dicking around with your operating system. |
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So with this attitude towards software scanners, the thought of one that will make anything I attach to my computer unstable as well is not a good one. No vote, because lots of other people use virus scanners (seemingly) without issue, but not me. |
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The bane of my life, computing configuration-wise, is device drivers for Windows PCs. My anti-virus package (Norton) nearly deals with this. |
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Do we need virus scanners? |
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As an ex-employee of Dr Solomon's Software I might be biased but people without virus scanners become the target market of people planning to set up bot nets. A celibate system is a predictable one and one that can be exploited. Especially if that system uses Microsoft software. |
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Ahh, and it is very much that last bit that is the rub. |
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Internet Explorer, Mail, Chat, Messaging and other connective clientry is all a big no-no - and, if you follow that general principle, are you really missing out? Not really. |
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A request-to-connect type software firewall (The XP/Vista one one seems reasonable) can then be used to capture anything else - and all without any of that invasive scanning that seems to crucify performance and reliability. |
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It's a good question: Can 'good practice' in how you use your computer remove the need for virus or spyware scanners on a PC? There's probably a minimum level of action (like running a firewall) which is unavoidable. |
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I would agree. Firewall essential. Virus scanner less so if you're not downloading files (I only access e-mail by logging on to the ISP rather than using an e-mail client for example), but this is highly dependent upon your OS software. I ran Windows 98 for years without having a virus scanner running all the time, just firing one up for a system health check every couple of weeks or so. Once I had to move on to XP though I took a very different attitude and maxed out on security, setting the virus scanner to resident mode and adding in spyware & rootkit detection stuff. It cripples your system performance ( bigsleep's idea would hardly improve that situation) but not as much as having your PC stripped clean by hackers & spammers would.
I kind of got the impression that Windows 98, which I only replaced 2 years ago, had been forgotten by the bad guys. Unglamourous, outdated software that nobody could be bothered to attack. Either that or I was just very lucky. |
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What virus-writers choose to attack is driven by an odd mixture of the technical ease of the attack and whether the rewards justify the effort. So, I use an Apple iMac at home which is probably harder to attack than XP and the rewards are low (low market share) - so the attacks are rare (a lot of Apple users think they're immune, which is rubbish - however you can get away with just running the default Apple (actually BSD Unix) firewall). Windows 98 is probably as easy to attack as XP but the rewards would be tiny, so no one would bother. |
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I am utterly unconvinced by the need for anti-virus stuff, for this reason. I first got an internet connection at home ten years ago. I used it extensively, at first with an anti-virus program, later without. From six years ago onwards, my internet connection has been always on and broadband without a firewall or anti-virus software. Late on in this period, i ran anti-virus stuff and it didn't detect a single virus on any of the computers i had used in that period, apart from one which i couldn't run it on because it belonged to the military and i had to give it back. Then, maybe two weeks ago when the old PC did the firework thingy, my son installed a Trojan on the laptop as a result of naivete. I immediately removed the battery, changed passwords, booted from a Linux installation CD and installed Linux as a single-boot thing (which i'm using now). So far as i know, i've never had a virus until then. I have never lost money from PayPal, a bank account or credit card either and i'm not conscious of anyone impersonating me for any other reason. The possibilities, to my mind, are therefore these. Either viruses are not a significant risk or the anti-virus software doesn't detect them.
It may be down to a tendency to use Lynx and emacs to browse the web a lot, but i also use Firefox a lot. If it turns out that what i'm doing is dangerous, i'd welcome anyone's input on this, but it hasn't happened so far as i know. |
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don't look at me: I use an old passive firewall and naught else... I haven't gotten even a nibble of a virus in about a decade or so. |
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It stops being luck, i think, when a representative
sample of people, which maybe we're not, who don't
use the anti-virus stuff turn out to have a strong
tendency not to have viruses after a number of
years. |
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I'm so lost in the spyware / antispyware / anti-spyware containing other spyware front that it's silly. Unfortunately I can't prevent the wife from using IE with Facebook and all of the silly Java crap. |
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Never got malware myself either. Problem is, i fix computers for people, so i see the junk all the time... |
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AV is a must. Most systems i fix have outdated or no AV... |
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I wouldn't even bother with installing a firewall. The Windows XP/Vista one is fine if you're on a network. |
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As for this idea, the concept is great, but the last thing people need is more resident software to slow down an already slow system. So unless it can be made to run unobtrusively (unlike the AV)... |
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I was hoping this would be a virus scanner for bloated antivirus programs... |
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I think it's a matter of realizing that "going with the flow" generally means travelling downhill. I like to think that the time I invested in ripping the guts out of XP has paid for itself in time/annoyances saved/avoided. |
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[wolstech], the fact that most of the systems you
sort out have outdated or no anti-virus programs
doesn't imply that's the problem as such so much that
the majority of systems might be that way. |
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Time for a bit of clarification regarding AV and anti-spyware. There are three classes of stuff you don't want on your system. Viruses that destroy stuff, trojans that join your computer to someone's private power network and annoying pop-up adware stuff. According to personal perception of what the internet and pop-ups are you may think you have none of these, but may well have all three. |
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In security terms there is a chain of trust. You trust Microsoft but their stuff has vulnerabilities. Those vulnerabilities are being exploited to put non desirable payloads on your computer. By running a movie or viewing a pdf in IE you are trusting Sun and Adobe, not just to provide a good experience but to close all their backdoors. |
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An AV etc ensures that of the 100's of providers you trust, even if they forget to close all their backdoors before leaving the office, the AV will stomp on the problem before their backdoor becomes your open backdoor by virtue of trust. |
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This idea is very much that there is only one provider you can trust and that's your AV provider as its their core business to protect your PC. |
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How this idea works is totally compatible with an AV doing on-access scanning. It can detect the serial number of any device and predict through usage when its likely to experience a hardware failure. |
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If you haven't got a virus scanner, at least try one of the top 5 for the free trial month. Be prepared to retract statements of the form "I've been virus free for X years". I'm pretty savvy with IT, but got hit bigtime just by going to the Pirate Bay homepage using IE when it was in the news. They have dubious ethics with even less ethical sponsors. Be careful out there ! |
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That doesn't explain why, if the PCs here were
infected, none of that was detected. If i have
Trojans or viruses and i can't find an anti-virus
program that will detect any of them, why should i
bother with them? In that case, to me it just seems
to be an unavoidable risk and there's still no point. |
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//That doesn't explain why, if the PCs here were infected, none of that was detected// |
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I've switched virus scanners a couple of times as no single one got 100%. In the last couple of years they have become much better, approaching 99%. Just for a laugh I ran the most recent scanner over my backup archive. It found 6 that hadn't been detected previously, 2 in email attachments from 8 years ago. Scary stuff. You might be genuinely lucky though if that gives you any peace of mind.
[edit: previous scanners - Norton, AVG, Spybot S&D, SuperAntiSpyware, MalwareBytes, PCTools Spyware Doctor, Kaspersky. Current - Eset (although as stated the last 2 years have made quite a difference to many products)]. |
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//Be prepared to retract statements of the form "I've been virus free for X years//
O_o
It's not exactly a "stock" install... for instance I've only 10 processes running currently including 4 Windows Services. I'd be running [19thly]'s setup including Lynx except I have no memory for Unix variants (seriously there's a mental block: I have 5 different pieces of paper that say I'm a SysAdmin for 5 different flavours of Unix not counting the PC variants, and I can't remember a thing from any of them). |
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//I have 5 different pieces of paper// |
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I was trying to strike a balance for those who aren't that IT savvy. I hate repairing windows systems, its not even my job. |
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I do use Firefox quite a lot, for instance on this site i do that, though i don't really know why. Lynx is not exactly good at dealing with Flash or Java either, but then i tend to think that Flash is evil. I had a problem a while back when my copy of Lynx at least wouldn't do https for some reason, which was bloody annoying.
All of that is also a reason why i use webmail - it just seems to me that if something isn't even on the computer, it helps it to be more secure.
I am now off to install Lynx on here.
Right, done that and ooh, pretty colours and teletext flashback! |
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See Shadowserver linky above. They run daily, weekly, monthly & yearly assessments on the effectiveness of various AV packages. Most of them don't fare very well! Tat's not to say that you shouldn't have some sort of AV running on your PC but sensible security practises (such as not visiting websites of dubious repute using unprotectd machines, or opening e-mails from people you've never heard of) will give you as much, if not more, protection in the long run. |
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//strike a balance for those who aren't that IT savvy//
not "savvy" per se, I just don't like dealing with crap. Even the "standard freeware suite" of AVG, AdAware, S&D and ZA has gotten so bloated they have to be pruned or they take over your system. Everybody wants to put bars on the windows ignoring the holes in the walls. |
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Good point [toaster] I have often wished for a utility program that just looks at stuff in general and point out e.g. your IE setting for x is a bit weak. |
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[Toaster] - that's exactly the point. I'm pretty "IT savvy" but dealing with all these things is just a big waste of time, whether they're fiendishly technical, or well-explained - it's not what I want to do. As an example of how to do it right, I just got a new iMac which came with what Apple call "Time Machine" which does backups. This is probably just a good interface on top of some standard Unix backup tools. The point is though, I'm easily capable of doing backups manually or configuring some clever backup tool, but I can't be bothered, which is why Time Machine is so good. All I did was plug in a nearly empty 1TB external drive I had, a dialog came up saying "Do you want to use this as your Time Machine storage?", I clicked "Yes" and that was it - with no other intervention I get incremental backups done every hour and can revert any file or folder on my hard drive back to any point since Time Machine first ran. That's how easy virus protection should be. |
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// Everybody wants to put bars on the windows ignoring the holes in the walls.// or (not one of mine) "In a world without walls or fences - who needs Windows and Gates?". See link for Windows firewall spoof image. |
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