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Many of today's biodiversity is being
threatened by the introduction of plants
and animals that easily overpower native
populations. In Hawaii's streams, invasive
fish are overcompeting for resources while
invasive plantlife steals oxygen from the
water. I don't think that anybody would
go as far as systematically dredging
streams to remove unwanted fish, but an
ancient practice incorporated with robotics
and the internet can educate and help.
Ancient hawaiians established fish ponds
where fish were allowed in and out freely
as they were fed daily. A gate was used to
control the size of fish that came in and
also that went out. as fish grew, they
could no longer leave through the gate.
they were coralled into channels created
with rock walls and easily captured for
food.
A robotic fish pond could be created to
sort through stream fish populations. Fish
are allowed to enter and leave through a
series of tubes, of which they are sorted
by a series of robotic gates. They will be
drawn to the robotic pond by the smell of
food, or whatever bait can be used. The
internet comes in here: everytime a gate
encloses a fish, a picture is taken and put
online. Votes can be cast as to if the fish
should remain in the stream. if it is
allowed to remain, it enters and eats. if it
is deemed unworthy, it is led down
another tube to be killed (somehow,
haven't figured out the most humane way)
and the dead fish can be used as fish
food.
problems: what fish eat fish.. do fish
notice when some of them are missing?
Will this create a dependancy for food? If
fish smell fish blood will it scare them
away?
Threatening Plants
https://www.denix.o...nvasive/hawaii.html
Invasive plants [twitch, Nov 13 2006]
Mosquitoes
http://www.uhh.hawa...~biocomp/hawaii.php
see: Mosquito and Malaria [twitch, Nov 13 2006]
Oxygen Depletion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphate
Search: Algal Bloom [twitch, Nov 14 2006]
Salvinia
http://www.invasive.../2FloatingFern.html
Salvinia Molesta, invasive. [twitch, Nov 14 2006]
[link]
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Feeding cows to cows led to mad cow disease. This sounds like a recipe for mad fish disease. |
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mad cow disease would be useful, if you
were interested in killing all cows. |
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maybe we'll just give them regular fish
food, and use the dead fish as crab bait
(good bait for crabs i must say). |
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Up here in the sticks of Maine, we employ scuba teams to do the "weeding" of dangerous plant life. Much like one would weed thier garden. |
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i'm sorry but we can't weed tilapia or other
cichlids. they swim faster than us. |
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What if you simply have too many of one species? There's still the competition for resources, and how do you decide what to kill then? Sorry, but if you don't like a fish there, then keep it out. Once it's in there, it has just as much right to those resources as any other fish. |
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Unless it's an introduced "pest" species. |
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//problems: what fish eat fish.. // |
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Pike & Perch are both known to eat other fish. I don't like this idea though. How can you deem one fish unworthy of life, and yet let another live? What would differentiate the two? Fishbone. |
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I freedive with a speargun, and deem one fish worthy of death, and let another live. Of course, I entreat the ocean gods for their assistance in this process. |
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C.J. Cherryh has gone into this idea before, in detailing how a race that believes only wild-caught meat is OK to eat, deals with such issues. |
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When this race advances to the level of space travel, onboard fish farms are devised that introduce both random choice and size into the occasion of choosing who gets eaten and who lives another day. |
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tasty fish feed people muddy fish feed fishes |
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i aim to remove the fish that are
deemed invasive. that is: they overrun
and/or destroy natural habitat by over-
competition or outright habitat
destruction. |
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Remove the fish that are directly and
indirectly destroying the balanced
ecosystem that was in place. |
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// Once it's in there, it has just as much
right to those resources as any other
fish.// |
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So, if i squat on your property and start
mining for ore, i now
have rights to your property? |
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That's not the same; fish don't 'own' a river. I know we could go into a debate here over whether we really own the land too, but the point is that fish presumably don't have the same concept of land and resource ownership as we do. |
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I think asking whether introduced fish have a 'right' to resources like native fish is where you go wrong. It's not really about rights at all. A right is a human construct. |
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I think the voting idea is a bit silly. If we applied the same system to other ecosystems all the fluffy cute animals would be thriving and people would kill off ugly ones. If there is a problem then leave it to biologists or other people who know what they are doing if indeed there are any. It's about responsibly managing ecosystems we've stuffed up, not deciding is any particular fish is 'worthy' to live. What is worth to a fish? |
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//but the point is that fish presumably don't have the same concept of land and resource ownership as we do.// |
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That would be why there is no such concept as "territory" to a fish, or to any animal, presumably ;) |
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Certain Cichlids, in my experience, are fiercly territorial in an aquarium environment. They seem to have a behavior that one would not really expect from a fish in other things at times, also. (Some attempt to attack people walking by the aquarium) |
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[twitch], I can't find a link, but I'm pretty sure some of the Tuna farms use a camera in a narrow gate to count the Tuna as they move into the final tank. |
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It is not about rights, it is about the
survival of an ecosystem. We
introduced cichlids to control another
pest, mosquitoes. This tactic has
proved somewhat successful in the
short run, but now they are
endangering the survival of a fragile
balance. Mosquitoes are also an
introduced animal which has proved
deadly to many native birds. |
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Many animals are territorial such as
dogs, cats, to mention the obvious
ones. It not just about territory, its
about over-competition for resources
between native and invasive plants and
animals. |
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Invasive plants and animals can destroy
whole habitats. See link. Read about
Miconia in Tahiti if you like. |
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//Mosquitoes are also an introduced animal which has proved deadly to many native birds.// |
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You might need to revisit the facts on that one. Mosquitoes naturally inhabit practically every available habitat on Earth, bar Antarctica. |
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Then those Cichlids should not have been introduced. You don't bring something there, then kill it when you no longer have any use for it. Animals are not tools to be used when convenient, then disposed of. If you're using a camera, then use the camera to open the gate for "accepted" fish and not open for the ones you don't want. Use an airlock-type system to keep the unwanted fish from sneaking in with the others. The minute *you* introduce an animal to an environment, it has a right to be there. |
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//Feeding cows to cows led to mad cow disease. This sounds like a recipe for mad fish disease// |
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Fish eat fish all the time so I can't see how you could make a link to Mad Cow Disease. Example: Sharks eat fish and sharks are fish |
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I have known this fact UnaBubba, there
were no mosquitoes before Europeans
arrived. Hawaii is the most remote land
mass on the planet and the polynesians
didn't bring them. Because of
mosquitoes, we had a bird-epidemic.
Some species went extinct, some... well
read the link. |
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I have a right to protect my ecosystem
and to kill plants and animals that
threaten their existence. |
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[21 Quest], animals ARE tools. I eat
them every day. What ever happened to
cow's rights to live anyway? Or fish. |
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The votes would be made my qualified
people who know which species are
damaging to the habitat. |
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//invasive plantlife steals oxygen from the water// |
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Methinks you're not a botanist. |
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[Aq_Bi], that statement you quoted is true.
Why do you think we restrict phosphates in
detergent... Resulting algal blooms deplete
oxygen levels. |
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it doesn't take a botanist to know that, just
a history lesson. |
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see: oxygen depletion link for algal bloom |
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You never mentioned algae. Plants by themselves always create extra oxygen for sea life. Even in algal blooms it's the bacteria that use up the oxygen. |
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Do I have to explain everything? yes when
they die they rot. Read it. But just for you
[Aq_Bi], here is a plant that DIRECTLY
depletes oxygen levels: See Link
<Salvinia> |
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M_B, sharks are very *distantly* related to fish. If do some research, you'll se that they are named separately. One main difference between sharks and bony fishes is that sharks have a unique organ called the spiral valve, which allows them to digest things other species cannot. This makes a big difference in what they can safely eat. |
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Fish still eat fish, but you're right, it
depends on what fish. |
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maybe if we cooked them.. for them. |
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maybe it would be easier to just
systematically net the whole stream/river. |
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Hmmm, I must do some research and see if there are any examples of fish prions being found. |
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