h a l f b a k e r yI didn't say you were on to something, I said you were on something.
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We can't undo what's been done.
So we learn and move on. In a best case scenario, we can find ways to turn negatives into positives. As a species we are creating an enormous amount of un-recycled waste and too much of that amount is winding up swirling around in Gyres in our oceans.
There are
clean up efforts being made but the main problem seems to be photodegredation of the plastic into polymer chains, small enough to be mistaken for phytoplankton, called neustonic plastic. This then enters the food chain and wreaks all kinds of havoc. As far as I know there are no methods available to address this aspect of the problem. Now, this might not work so if someone would be kind enough to tell me why not I'll be able to get over it already and daydream about other stuff that might work.
Since the plastic breaks down into neutrally buoyant bits I think it might be possible to suspend sound emitters beneath the Gyres which would collect particulates into self organizing patterns using the principle of Cymatics to create standing wave forms in the water.
Since Seawater contains ferrous metals, when enough of these particles are concentrated into suspended strands they should be able to conduct an electric current.
If this spherical cage shape were electrified via solar, wind, or wave energy from the surface, then these suspended strands will begin to transform into Seacrete which would become too dense to stay in the upper water column and instead become floating reefs until growing dense enough to sink to the sea floor and become real reefs trapping the plastic within them.
So...would it work?
Seacrete or Seament or Biorock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biorock
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, Jan 03 2011]
Boy reads halfbakery and becomes famous
http://www.dailymai...ans-just-years.html
[pashute, Mar 23 2014, last modified Mar 22 2017]
Floating Islands without the electricity
http://www.floating...iohaven-technology/
similar (a gucky bio-substance collects plastics and processes it with microoganisms) [pashute, Mar 23 2014]
[link]
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Well, I learned the word "neustonic". (I learned the word
"cymatics" a few days ago, but it was a near miss.) |
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On the other hand, there are a few minor issues. |
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First, why is cymatics going to cause these teeny particles
to form spherical cages? Their density is close to that of
seawater, and therefore I don't think they're going to
behave in the way that sand does on a drumskin. |
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Also, you seem to be cymaticising them into large, 3-D
structures - is there any indication that cymatics can do
this? |
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Next, seawater does indeed contain metals and other
things - I presume the point is that it's conductive? Well,
then an aggregate of plastic particles will be less
conductive, not more conductive, than the seawater
itself. |
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Next next, even if the large 3D cages of plastic particles
(which can't be formed) were preferentially conducting
(which they won't be), and you passed a big current
through them, why would they form "Seacrete" (which is
what, exactly)? |
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Finally next, even if the 3D cages of plastic particles
(which can't be formed) were preferentially conducting
(which they won't be), and turned into solid masses of
Seacrete (which is what, again?) when you passed a current
through them (which they won't), what would stop wave
action from breaking them up? |
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So, it would work, if you can find alternatives to each of
the steps involved in this process. |
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// So, it would work, if you can find alternatives to each of the steps involved in this process. // |
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Yes, it would work, if you did it in a completely different way, and applied it to an entirely new and unrelated problem. |
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The drumbeats would probably cause the dolphins
and whales to complain about their noisy neighbors
as well. |
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Well um, ok.
//First, why is cymatics going to cause these teeny particles to form spherical cages?//
//3-D structures - is there any indication that cymatics can do this?// |
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Cymatics 'is' the three dimensional representation of the two dimensional Chladni patterns. Harmonically resonant sound waves organize particles suspended in solution so the waves can be seen in 3D yes?
I figured that neutrally buoyant plastic strands suspended in seawater would behave simlarily under similar conditions...unlike fish which do not behave like particulates at all rendering ideas like, oh, say, a Chladni fishing net impractical. |
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//an aggregate of plastic particles will be less conductive, not more conductive, than the seawater itself.// |
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Maybe. <shrugs> If enough ferrous material collects in the pattern then the fact that it is mainly plastic should not matter I would think. If current is applied then the the particles will separate themselves from the plastic on their own as they have all become tiny magnets. This alignment would then be more conductive than seawater yes? |
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//Seacrete" (which is what, exactly)?// |
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Another word for Bio-rock. If you place conductive material underwater and run a current through it, then minerals will acrete naturally and leave a behind a scafolding for coral growth. One of the few success stories when it comes to saving coral reefs. I'll post a link. |
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//Finally next, even if the 3D cages of plastic particles (which can't be formed) were preferentially conducting (which they won't be), and turned into solid masses of Seacrete (which is what, again?) when you passed a current through them (which they won't), what would stop wave action from breaking them up?// |
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Below the surface there should be only surge to contend with and below a Gyre I can't see there even being much of that, and waves pass through one another so I imagine that the odd stray wave would not disturb the pattern overmuch. |
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//it would work, if you did it in a completely different way, and applied it to an entirely new and unrelated problem.// |
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Can I have a hint?
I get the hunch that Cymatics has applications so far beyond anything I could dream up it's not even funny...but, you work with what you got. Y'know? |
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I wondered about harm to sealife too but I figured it would be a lesser of two weevils thing. |
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Wow! I admire the intent, but can't begin to address the known problems with this approach, let alone the [unknown^2]s. |
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I think the fundamental problem is thermodynamic - i.e. getting enough energy to accomplish your good intent against entropy. |
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But then, that is a problem with most 1/2-baked ideas... |
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As interesting as this idea is, I think that all gyre
cleaning ideas should be compared to using pillow
cases, and frankly, I think your idea will mess up my
hair. |
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If you look at pictures of what is in that gyre, a lot of it is floaty plant chunks. I would bet most of it is that. Those plant chunks will run interference with this scheme. |
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If there was only some way to make the gyre junk fight the space junk so that they cancelled each other out.... |
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Nuke in the ocean, blast the gyre junk into space? |
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Create a black hole somewhere. Preferrably in France. |
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Actually I'm working with a team of scientists and
engineers on an idea (not halfbaked) to achieve the
ocean plastic cleanup, in a way that pays the investors
back nicely, while being marine life friendly. |
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I imagine this would be a rainbow warrior / cruise ship
powered by incinerated plastic, paid for by eco warrior on
their holidays. Large nets would scoop up the mess and
burn it at high temperatures. |
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An alternative would be to use the power of homeopathy
which by diluting all the plastic would unleash the
awesome power of homeopathy! |
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