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Gentlemen, nothing is more embarrassing than that accidental eye-contact you make with the guy in the car next to you when both of you were only hoping to catch sight of another good-looking girl. One will never experience a quicker, more obvious look-away than at that moment. But I think we should acknowledge
to each other our intent, relieve each other of suspicion and embarrassment, and go on, re-assured of the other's appreciation for our manhood. So I propose a simple, subtle gesture that we direct toward each other that simply means, "I'm not like that, just looking for hot chicks like you, my good man, catch you on down the road." Perhaps a finger to the temple or something -- something subtle so that the uninitiated don't take it for undue attention.
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Good Idea, could also avoid those situations where the eye contact is interpreted as "Yeah, I'm a red-blooded male and I'm gonna race the hell out of you when these lights change" |
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men...you live in your own strange little world...don't you? |
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The spirit of my idea was grasped precisely by ItsMan. Another possible gesture might be to stick our tongues firmly into our cheeks.... |
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And we like it here, Susen. Quarantined as we are from the dreadful cooties. |
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Now I fear the anti-redundancy squad of the word police is going to come after me for that "mutual eye-contact" flub. |
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Avoid 'the pat' at all cost. Preferably, tug your contact-side button down slightly, as if to loosen the weight of the material against your skin while you blow down your shirt. If he persists in staring at you, that's his problem. Race the s* out the m* afore he tries to meet you IRL. |
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reensure: I'd love to race the s* out of the m*, but driving a 1.2 Corsa kind of means I'll get beaten by most drivers anyway.
I like Itsman's idea though, it could definitely cutdown on heterosexual misunderstandings. |
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i don't have this problem. if it's a guy, i just stare him the hell down and whip his @$$ John Force style. |
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How does making eye contact with someone equate to homosexuality. If anything I start to wonder when a man specifically does not make eye contact... i.e. what a pu**y. |
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You obvously DO have something against gays, as you feel embarrasment with how others "may" percieve you. |
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Actually, I assumed globaltourniquet was being facetious, and this was just a thinly disguised rant perpetuating the heterosexual male as woefully insecure, homophobic and probably repressed, a characterization as bad as that in the "straight pride" idea of heterosexuals as bland Readers' Digest types. |
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Global, if I recall correctly--you live in SoCal-- Los Angeles perhaps--If so, communities of West Hollywood (largely* Gay) or Silverlake (sizeable* Gay population) may be your reference points. I'm a transplanted Angeleno myself-(7 years altogether). I drive through WeHo 10 times a week and sometimes am on foot there as well... Silverlake maybe 2-4 times a week... I've come to the conclusion that I'm in my car, just like Joe Blow* next to me going someplace. Being happily settled with my Girlfriend means I don't need to look for females of any description. Prior to that time, I'd get 'the look' to which you refer. What I've found is that since I'm just out* and about, there's no need to get hot* and bothered* if some other man looks at me 'as if'. If you insist on making a gesture of some description--try this one on for size*. : - P
*=no pun intended |
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PeterSealy - what makes you think Global rides a Penny Farthing? |
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It's a bit like the "gay hand" - when you accidently brush against your best mates oiled, erect nipple (although purely by chance) and you both try and laugh it off pretending there is'nt a little gay person in everyone, scratching at the surface, trying to get out. As a rule the more homophobic a person the bigger their little gay inner self - just incase you were wondering. |
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Little Crow, Put wide wheels on your corsa, a big exhaust, get a number 2 haircut, a baseball cap and a loud stereo. You won't go any faster, but you might scare the odd fiesta driver with the same kit . |
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Yes-chimpboy makes a good point... So there you are in the gym, G-Lo... and after your workout you just can't help but notice your best mates rock hard buttocks glistening in the shower and... |
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..both of you (probably) realize you're getting what you worked out for, now that you've fatigued yourselves and your defenses are exhausted you're succeptable to the taboo. |
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whoah...did you -see- that?!?!?!?!
what the hell was that freaky stuff going on!?!?!? |
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All in good fun, but this cuts across gender and nationality to our fundamental nature: are you a 'cat' or a 'dog' type? A 'cat' like the late Richard Feynman could care less what the other fellow thinks; a 'dog' like Tony Blair (correct me, Brits) would not wish to be perceived incorrectly. Amont the Halfbakers I'd guess Susen is a 'cat,' and as for myself, well, my username says it all. |
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Hi Peter. Hey, have you been working out or something? |
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This is only a problem because people might be less secure about who they are these days and because we have lost common languages of gesture. Renaissance Venetians actually taught gesture to their citizens and one of these books has been translated to English recently by a professor of anthropology who studies gesture as a part of communication. |
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I would use a minor shake of the head to indicate suprise and/or bewilderment and carry on with whatever I was thinking about or doing. Being subjected to various types of examination by strangers is something you just have to get used in any major city. |
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Well said, waugsqueke. <<<<<applause>>>>> |
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Unless I have misread other instances of facetious foolery, only bookworm (and, early on, ItsMan) caught my original drift. I did get what I was fishing for -- a heated discussion of gender and preference. And light shed on our prejudices. (Forgive the possible misuse of the forum, but it served a purpose...) |
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PS: applause to waug is likewise offered from here... |
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And UB, I am convinced from experience that homosexuals are in equal proportion over the population as heterosexuals (and bisexuals, for that matter) warm, generous, happy, funny and intelligent. I would make no generalization that any sexual preference has any particular social behavior pattern -- I would consider that stereotyping, albeit positive.... (Much like saying Asians are good at math, a stupid generalization that is another instance of oversimplifying your perception of life by means of uneducated labelling) |
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Maybe we need someone to post an idea for a HB facetious comment indicator symbol for these uncertain moments.... |
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Just to clarify... that is precisely why I offered my applause for your title readjustment comment. |
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and how could I object to your calling me globe when I have of my own accord taken the liberty to call you waug? Call me what you like, call me Prime Minister if you wish. Just don't call me a fag. |
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Why you tolerance fascist you. |
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The idea came because the event it describes is real. I often conduct the experiment purposefully, and so many look away so fast you would think they prefer whiplash to possibly being seen as interested in my handsome mug. |
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I usually just give a :\ face, so as to suggest that yes, we did make eye contact, and considering as how I am a heterosexual male, I am disappointed for not finding an attractive young lady instead of your hairy, g-mug. Either that, or a knowing grin so as to admit that, yes, that is what I was looking for, the same as I know you were doing when you looked at me. It usually goes over well enough, then we look back at the lights and get on with our lives. |
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Hey, waugsquekerdoodleheimerfunglebleep, |
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//if I was to use the same short-naming technique, I would have simply called you 'glob' and be done with it// |
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That is provided the shortening technique isn't percentage-length-based, for which there is no indication. In the case where it is so based, waug and globe are almost equal (waug being 40% of your name and globe being 33% of mine, global is exactly equal...), with the additional provision for vowel declension from "a" to "e" in my name's case. And I should say the declension is certainly asthetically (not to mention grammatically) preferable... |
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And that's not to mention that, given that it has been several weeks since I dragged myself to my local PA meeting, it's "if I _WERE_ to use..." |
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wouldnt most openly homophobic men just put up their middle fingers at any person they suspected was gay? THEN they would race off at the lights, their stereo booming. |
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That's an interesting turn of phrase. We now have a new closet sexuality issue to deal with: |
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"Are you now, or have you ever been, a homophobic?" |
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Soon there will be a don't-ask-don't-tell policy in the military regarding homophobia. |
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Soon teen-age homophobes, unable to deal with the ostracization they experience from their tolerant peers, will be the new psychological crisis in our schools. |
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(pardoning your ad hominem for the moment) |
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Apologies for the HB faux-pas. Although protest is not the verb. More like HB masturbation, as |
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methinks the narcissist doth masturbate too much. |
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(+) You're drawing in the declensionists, the conjugators, and you turn a fetching PA. I think there's even an audiophile or two casting lots. That okay? |
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What a load of smarmy political correctness. Look or don't look, just get over your lack of self worth/confidence. |
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"As a rule the more homophobic a person the bigger their little gay inner self - just incase you were wondering." says Chimpboy. |
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The point of view that homophobics are really self-repressed homosexuals seems to have entered modern folklore with (and I'm open to correction here) no evidence to back it up whatsoever. Personally, I've always found homophobics either will have come from a small community, or will be an intolerant and arrogant person who is unwilling to accept those whose values and behavious different from their own. Neither of these attributes are those one normally associates with homosexuals. |
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I can understand how the theory came about - either as a mechanism for insulting homophobics (a fairly standard insult is to tell people they are what they least like), or as an essentially comedic mechanism (used in, for example American Beauty), but I find it rather perplexing that this theory persists as a truism. |
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Incidentally, Glob, as this topic has shifted towards the debate you originally intended, perhaps it would make more sense to shift it into another category, such as culture:sex or other:relationships? |
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I believe the theory goes like this: People not previously exposed to homosexuality are likely to be shocked, maybe repelled but they will get over it. However people who persistently devote time to harassing gays (and vis-versa) should have a reason for doing it. Being insecure about their own sexuality is a credible reason but not the only one, of course. |
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So let me get this straight, globaltourniquet. |
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You're a wannabee tolerant, narcissistic, pedantic, politically correct-because-it's-socially-expedient straight who's not all that sure about his/her sexuality (based on the number of times you've found it necessary to assert your heterosexuality in this largely one-sided conversation (and you have monopolised the conversation. Of the 51 posts by 23 different people to date, 13 of the posts are yours)). |
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Not well. I'd say I'm about 79.2% straight. But who's counting? |
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And I don't recall ever asserting my heterosexuality seriously.... Hmmmm. UB needs facetiousness training. |
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Does that mean 20.8% of your social and sexual encounters are homosexual, bisexual or bestial? |
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I'm not facetious enough yet? |
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not necessarily, UB, they are just indeterminate. Maybe even only vaguely sexual. |
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Apologies, this is on topic. |
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I once inadvertently made eye contact with another male in a bar. It turns out he was a homophobic (I never found out if he was a repressed homosexual), and he enquired if he might take physical and violent issue with me over the 'pass' I'd made at him. I managed to extricate myself from the confrontation unharmed, but it would have been much easier if I'd had a simple gesture at hand with which to diffuse the tension sooner. |
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I'm trying. Guys, give me a hand. Is hazing against the law in a virtual realm? |
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The other 20.8% prefers pistachios to walnuts. |
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It's tough when folks are absolutely determined to take you seriously. |
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What I'd really be interested in knowing is who are the seven who have voted for this idea. One I think might be the homosexual who could have used such a signal as a ruse to avoid a dangerous situation. That I can understand. As for the others, well we seem to have six here who are not comfortable with their sexuality. |
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And, Peter, you can never out me. My wife has been trying for years... |
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(to say nothing of my sexual preference, that speaks rahter ill of my sexuality in general doesn't it? Ah well, all in good fun...) |
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Globe, it must be soooo dark in that closet, man !! C'mon out and face the music...., we won't hurt you. We're your friends ! |
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Somewhere along the line, all this boils down to having manners and being civil to one another in public - regardless of sexual orientation, belief system, dress, culture, ad nauseum. |
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Those folks that feel that perceived differences should be addressed by violence need a mandatory "Miss Manners" lesson in public behavior. The rest of us should be able to play nicely without rummaging through others *closets*, unless we're specifically invited. |
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Isn't this fun? It reminds me of Brain Candy. |
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Is that like Faeces Pieces? |
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Isn't that the name of that Kids in the Hall movie? Brain Candy? Where the dad can't face his homosexuality? |
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Anyway, I do have one serious protestation to make (despite the fact that I have been cited already by the protest police, whichthinks I doth too much). |
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By no means could I be labelled politically correct. The only thing I can fathom that could possibly be construed as such is my assertion that one mustn't generalize about any group, even with positive intention. The issue has nothing to do with hurting people's feelings, the main protest of the PC. The assertion is merely that one should stick to demonstrable facts, and not make knee-jerk blanket statements that can't be supported in the real world. This is the problem of generalization as well as political correctness -- unlearned oversimplification. A person who suffers from PC would protest the joke I made about "Just don't call me a fag": "Ooooh you shouldn't joke about that, you'll offend gay people." That's just stupid. They have no account for context. But to generalize by saying homosexuals are warm and friendly is equally egregious in its irrationality. You can make statements about groups that serve to describe the grouping -- homosexuals sexually prefer the same gender. But warmth and friendliness do not participate in that group description. So it is an ignorant assertion, based on knee-jerk oversimplification. |
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I was referring to UB's assertion that I am |
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//politically-correct-because-it's-socially-expedient// |
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and referring back to my response to his generalization that homosexuals are warm, friendly, etc. because that was the only thing I could find that could possibly give him cause to make that claim. |
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woops, I must have stumbled into a flamer war. I mean flame war. (only kidding, fellas) |
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Er, um... I'm with stupid. |
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First you use the term "generally" then you say you aren't generalizing. Intrinsic to the definition of "generalizing" is that you say things are generally some particular way. |
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As for narrow-mindedness, I feel little need to dignify that ad hominem. My rational view speaks for itself. It is the irrational that are narrow-minded. It is because of the very fact that I have known many homosexual people that I can say with confidence that they are no more or less warm funny happy generous blah blah people than any particular group. It is not by their ability to be categorized as gay that they in any way ("generally" or "automatically") inherit any social behavioral pattern. You nit. |
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All this gay stuff started with alchohol, I guarantee you. Get a roomful of people sloshed enough and they'll start choosing sides--the rest falls under "Who takes the title home."
Most gay men I see are sick. That is sad. Even sadder is the few who aren't sick and have personality disorders. That actually seems to distress females more than straight males. I wonder if this is why homophobes appear so tough on gays? Could be that all that aggression is just misplaced lust. |
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Sorry AA, I'm outa here too. This idea proves the axiom that people who shoot from the mouth often hit themselves in the foot. |
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Wow! All this angst, just from a bit of eye contact whilst sitting in a car? Just think of the mental agonies you'd have to go through if you were jammed onto public transport every morning. |
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I personally wouldn't mind a "I'm not looking at you because I'm interested, I'm looking at you because the train's too crowded and I forgot to bring a book" gesture... |
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but really children, enough of this foolishness. you have all made some wonderful (and not so wonderful) points here but it's time to move on. you're taking up space on the recent 3 page that could be used for some other ideas. |
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Like I said... I've come to the conclusion that I'm in my car, just like Joe Blow* next to me going someplace. |
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Obviously this is a very emotionally charged issue, but it is interesting to watch the virtual posturing that goes on with regard to sexual preferences. Feels like some of us are holding a virtual hand over our virtual crotches to protect our manhood. |
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I had a guy try to pick me up in a men's room once (granted, not the most romantic of venues) and I told him that I was flattered but straight and we left it at that. I didn't feel the need to prove my heterosexuality by beating him up nor did it really cause me to question whether I was standing on the right side of the sexuality fence. And as far as I know, the event didn't cause my penis to shrink at all. |
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We won't solve the conflict in this forum, but it is interesting to see that in a place where some of the most well spoken (typen?) and intelligent folks hang out that the emotions surrounding such a simple conflict seem to follow a similar pattern to other forums that I would consider less refined and insightful. |
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Wow. I hadn't read this since I posted my comment on the 21st about men living in their own little world.... I was soooooo right. BTW, nice to hear I'm a cat....my cats will be happy but my dogs may have issues with that. |
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What is all of this about? In a prior existence, when I wasn't a hermit on my farm, I will admit to staring at women also... who cares? People are interesting to look at and study. I did the "beauty pageant" thing briefly too and believe me, I checked out the competition and they did too. |
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As for worrying about looking from one car to the next, everyone does that! So What? Unless the guy in the next car starts to smile, lick his lips, and mouth the words "hey, baby"..... assume they are not interested in you and have no gay intentions. |
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For the record, one of my best friends in the world was a gay man (moved, lost track of each other). He definitely did not hit on people in the car next to him. |
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As for a female's perspective of what I think when the guy in a car is trying to get my attention.... I mostly just ignore them or give them my best look of annoyance. |
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White Anglo Saxon Protestant. It's another way of saying 'whitebread' or 'geek' |
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...except that 'geek' has connotations of smart and/or introverted, whereas WASP is more general. Most white people fall into the WASP category, at least the USians. 'geek' is a subset of WASP, but geek also includes (especially in the sciences) non-WASPs. |
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Actually "geek" is more about being anti-social than introverted, since a "geek" is technically a carnival showman who bites the heads off of chickens.| — | danrue,
May 04 2001, last modified May 09 2001 |
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Wear sunglasses. It gives you plausible deniability of eye contact. Wear them at night too, like in that song. |
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By the way, I fully understand and appreciate the facetiousness of the idea, but facetiousness has a short shelf life on a message board before it begins to curdle like so much speed-bump-filling custard. Alas. |
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Well, this post is getting big, but we might as well have input from a 33 year-old gay guy. |
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Almost all my friends are straight. When they run into a potentially homoerotic situation with me, like the eye-contact in the car, they just put their hand on my knee and tell me how happy they are to know me... maybe even rub my neck. |
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They do the same thing to oneanother. |
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Thank God my male friends know that we guys have to look out for eachother. After all, the girls are usually waiting at home to selfishly create some sort of anti-productive chaos that will take the guy weeks to clean up anyway. |
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Sorry ladies, no offense, but that's an honest observation. |
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I'll never look at drag racing at the lights in the same way again. |
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If "geek" includes non-WASPS, then "geek" is not a subset of WASP. |
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I was due to take my first driving lesson next week - I read this - and cancelled it |
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hey guys... a girl here. whenever i may be driving, i tend to look over into the next car as well. it's usually to see what kind of person is there and if there is any potential. ( use your imagination)
however, if you want, you can just wait at the light without looking over to the other car, and avoid the situation altogether. Because you just may have other more important things to think about than who's in the car next to you and whether they think of you. |
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hopefully this site is not dead |
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Peter; "...I would say that if someone's looking for a fight, they'll pick it over the first thing that comes into their alcohol-blurred brain". Now, simply substitute sex for violence, and your "Johnson" for the switchblade, and you will percieve that there is probobly a grain of truth to the HS CW that homophobia is a form of "acting out" of an uneasy denial. |
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I am mostly of the psychbiology school, and I presume there are probobly gradations of this, pheremones, and visual cues have much to do with sexual attraction, and I have usually been taken by suprise when a guy made a pass at me, although in retrospect, there were generally some hints that simply did not register - I've learned that sharing an avid interest in hetero pornography, for example, is usually a bad sign. |
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As far as eye contact goes, extending the middle finger, while smiling broadly generally works, although there are all sorts of subtler kinesthetics that will serve - projecting a look of utter boredom and enui is usually effective - conveying disinterest is the key. |
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This is actually something I've thought about, since I'm an artist, and occasionally find myself inadvertantly staring at someone, usually female, but occasionally a good looking male, particularly if he has good musculature and tone, and if they catch me, I have to defuse the situation quickly, as I am studying the natural rythm and flow of their motion, what the muscles do in different positions, etc. and it screws it up if they become stiff and self conscious. Not to mention it might give me reputation as some kind of pervert - some people really freak out if they catch someone looking at them. Of course, I live in the provinces, where people are not quite so thick skinned. |
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i check out chick comfortable with the notion that very few of them will ever find a lumbering lunk such as myself attractive (that is until i get that red vette convertible)...however, i am equally confident that i could score with 90% of the G(u)(a)ys out there...and i have a solution...either #1) we all give up caring how complete strangers that will never see us again think about our sexuality, or #2) (a fail safe when a man is truly uncertain of his own sexuality) take your index finger, insert it deeply inside your right or left nasal passage, and remove the juiciest booger you can find. this will almost certainly repel the potential homosexual (i can safely say i have never heard of a single human with a booger fetish) however now you have a different problem...ok so you are not gay, but you are socially worse...a nose picker...nose pickers are not popular with any demographic...so i leave it to you to "pick" your poison... |
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[Admin: Moved from car:communication to public:communication] |
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Hm. Now this is one idea where I definitely regret removing my annotations. |
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I'd take it as a compliment if someone thought I was gay... it probably means I've somehow fooled them into thinking I have good fashion sense. |
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I spent half an hour this morning looking for this - in connection with one of [FJ]'s |
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And all the time it was in the car next to you. Should've looked. |
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if you are gay, can you fancy yourself? |
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[eggy] yep, I was looking in the urinals |
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There already is a rather universal sign for such moments, a quick, rather obvious look-away. It's how real men communicate all sorts of emotions, from "Congratulations, son," to "What are you looking at?" |
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I find that if you wink and lick your upper lip, that usually does the trick. Then you rub your eyes, squint at the person again, and slap your forehead. Continue to squint as you drive off, and you probably won't be followed. |
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Picking your nose is pretty effective, too |
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well, I've emailed you three times with no response so f**k, looking at you. |
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If anybody's still reading this, it is a "scientific fact" that any eye contact between strangers lasting more than two seconds IS a sign of sexual interest. Deal with it. (Of course, this is no help to those who can't count above two...) |
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In all my life I have never seen an attractive woman in the car next to me. |
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I find that an acknowleging sort of head nod suffices. Not like a "yes" nod, but a greeting sort of nod--a nod upwards as opposed to downwards. |
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// it is a "scientific fact" that any eye contact between strangers lasting more than two seconds IS a sign of sexual interest. // |
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Where did you read that load of horseshit? |
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The gesture could be wetting your finger on your tongue and then wetting your eyebrows with it... |
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I love it. This would save me so many speeding tickets. If I do this (which I DO), I just down it and hit the gas. Because it's a guy that I just passed, usally it turns into a race. |
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thanks for bring this topic back evilpenguin, now lets all walk away like it never happened, just like we allways do when we make eye contact.... |
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Even more important than this idea is when I want to express approval to work that the other driver has done to his car. Sitting next to him at a light, hearing the turbo, or just a great paint job. Wich there was a really good way to express the compliment. RIght now it's the devil fingers "rock" position. |
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There's plenty of body language at one's disposal already, there's no need for any more. If you're caught staring at someone furrow your brow, or pout your bottom lip, or shrug your shoulders, or roll your eyes, or just smile theres nothing sexual about it. |
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Who's responsible for bringing this nonsense back? I've never voted on my own idea, but I'm boning this just counteract whatever zeit ghost is doing this. |
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This is not an invention, it's barely an idea, and it sucks for whatever it is. I certainly don't want this eclipsing "Kong for a day" on my ego list... |
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Political correctness is killing discourse... |
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[gt] that would be my bad. Looked through your profile |
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