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Liquid nitrogen butchery

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I am newly returned from Malaya (or, as they tend to call it these days, Malaysia).

Much as I love the food there, I have to say that their butchery techniques seem to be restricted to frenzied attacks with a machete. Every piece of meat will be guaranteed to contain a variety of bone fragments. Clearly, Malaysian butchers do not let something as troublesome as anatomy interfere with their technique.

It therefore seems rather a waste of time to have someone in a hot country hacking dead animals up with a sharp implement.

Much labour could be saved by simply dipping the carcass in liquid nitrogen and then dropping it from a height onto a hard surface. By suitable calibration, it should be possible to create potroast-, curry- or mince-sized shards.

(A quick Google reveals several LN2 butchers; however, these are all located in one region of Lincoln, UK.)

MaxwellBuchanan, Dec 10 2013

Suggesterated by: Xylow_fcrst
[MaxwellBuchanan, Dec 10 2013]

Chef uses liquid nitrogen http://www.huffingt...ools_n_4254687.html
[theircompetitor, Dec 10 2013]

Promession http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promession
freeze and frak [Loris, Dec 11 2013]

Scott Jurek http://scottjurek.com/bio/
see info below [xenzag, Dec 11 2013]

Timothy Bradely http://cdn.onegreen...y-Jr-Vegan-Diet.jpg
lean mean fighting machine and dedicated vegan [xenzag, Dec 11 2013]

[link]






       It would be simpler to get former flint knappers to do the cuts. Anyone saying "a chip of the old block" at their works presumably gets unpaid overtime.   

       //Google reveals several LN2 butchers; however, these are all located in one region of Lincoln, UK.   

       Spooky...
not_morrison_rm, Dec 10 2013
  

       Or just become a healthy, happy vegetarian like me, and leave the butchery to the merchants of death. I can tell people who people who eat lots of meat by their distinctive smell. (an unpleasant sickly odour that cannot be hidden)
xenzag, Dec 10 2013
  

       Don't feed that ^ troll.   

       [xen] - that comment was unworthy and unwelcome. Go peddle your ideas elsewhere. Your false and unwarranted sense of superiority smells far worse than a couple stray keto's.
Custardguts, Dec 10 2013
  

       //leave the butchery to the merchants of death//   

       It's truly incredible that natural selection has been able to develop a brain that is capable of so much navel gazing that it can even contemplate its own value as compared to that of other life, and consider sacrificing it. No wonder we invented god.   

       [xenzag] I'm all for living directly of sunlight or fusion as we spread out into the galaxy, but until we lose our corporeal form, steak tastes damn good.   

       I also recalled seeing the linked video some months ago
theircompetitor, Dec 10 2013
  

       //by their distinctive smell//   

       That's either a latent herbivore defense mechanism or a synesthetic reaction to the sounds of carnivores, unconsciously smacking their lips together and dealing with a bit more saliva when in close quarters with a vegetarian.
FlyingToaster, Dec 10 2013
  

       Well, to be honest, if someone were to eat predominantly meat, to the point of ketosis, then you could probably smell them. It's an oily, rank smell that is quite distinctive. People on crash diets, specifically ketosis diets, and/or with metabolic disorders can actually be smelled. The point is, any carbohydrate intake will rapidly halt ketosis - it is not "normal" at all, as well as the fact that you could and can induce ketosis on a plant-only protein diet as well... It's not meat, it's protein metabolism that produces the ketones.   

       Additionally, if one were that way inclined, you could probably tell the difference, with practice, between the excreta of carnivorous, omnivorous, and herbivorous people - and probably their flatulence as well.   

       ...But [xen]'s comment was intended to be malicious, and superior. I very much doubt [xen] comes across many people in hard ketosis such as they could be smelled in normal social contact, and I am absolutely certain that [xen] can't tell IF someone eats any meat at all, just by smell. Whilst the term "lots of" was included in the comment, the implication was that meat eaters stink. Which is stupid, and incorrect.   

       An interesting comparison is to point to the diet of the native Inuit peoples, which for much/all of the time consisted completely of flesh and fat. They were in a constant, complete state of ketosis. And were quite healthy that way to boot, from what I understand.
Custardguts, Dec 10 2013
  

       Mightn't the freezing process affect the quality of the meat, though? Perhaps a more effective technique would be to partition the carcass by means of implanted explosives. Done correctly, the slaughter, butchering, and cooking of the animal could all be completed in one swell foop.
ytk, Dec 11 2013
  

       [xen] if it keeps you happy, the same approach can be used to shatter tofu. And I am not going to stoop low enough to comment on bodily odours amongst those who subsist on beans and cabbage.
MaxwellBuchanan, Dec 11 2013
  

       I'm sceptical about this one. My gut feeling* is that meat is a pretty good insulator and so some time after dropping a carcass into liquid Nitrogen the middle will still be unfrozen.

* I have some guts here which I am feeling, to gauge their insulating properties.
hippo, Dec 11 2013
  

       //some time after dropping a carcass into liquid Nitrogen the middle will still be unfrozen//   

       Yes, true. But after some more time it will not. Perhaps someone with a recently-deceased hamster could start a small-scale study.
MaxwellBuchanan, Dec 11 2013
  

       Back to the idea - I believe that some countries butcher this way because they don't want to lose a precious ounce of meat. We the wasteful will throw away a chicken butt whereas some one from a poorer nation would relish that tasty morsel.
xandram, Dec 11 2013
  

       I'd sort of agree with [xan], except that the chainsaw-butchery phenomenon applies even to food prepared for fairly well-off diners.   

       I am now seriously considering investigating what happens when a small, deeply-frozen mammal is hit with a hammer. I have the liquid nitrogen and the hammer.
MaxwellBuchanan, Dec 11 2013
  

       /an unpleasant sickly odour that cannot be hidden/   

       I assumed that all humans smelled that way, but the strong garlic and cumin odor of vegetarians did hide it. Or possibly complement it.
bungston, Dec 11 2013
  

       I saw a programme on TV early this year about dealing with cadavers. For some reason some group reckoned freezing them solid was a good part of the disposal pathway.
It must have been "Bang goes the theory", because Jem did an experiment with a pork chop. The idea was to freeze it solid, vibrate to pieces then freeze-dry.
Quite why you'd go to all that trouble wasn't obvious. Um, see link.
  

       Anyway, Jem's demonstration proves that it's possible to freeze meat then pulverise it. You'd need to immerse rather than dip in your liquid nitrogen, but there's obviously a length of time within which full solidification can reliably be attained.
Loris, Dec 11 2013
  

       //I am now seriously considering investigating what happens when a small, deeply-frozen mammal is hit with a hammer//

This is interesting, because there's an argument that says it won't work because the small animal is non-homogeneous or fibrous or something - i.e. it has the same properties which make pykrete stronger than ice. Having said that, I've seen several things (rubber bouncy balls, flowers, etc.) shatter like glass after being frozen and then dropped on a hard floor, so I'd be fascinated to see if this would work. Can I suggest the cheapest way to do this is to buy a (dead) whole wild rabbit from your nearest butcher (about £5 at my butcher) and use that?
hippo, Dec 11 2013
  

       //and I am absolutely certain that [xen] can't tell IF someone eats any meat at all, just by smell// I can tell even by the way they walk.
xenzag, Dec 11 2013
  

       It's the running that gives it away. The world's greatest ultra runner Scott Jurek is a vegan, and so are many of his rivals. "On his first attempt, in 2005, he set a course record in the Badwater Ultramarathon, 135 miles through the 130 degree heat of Death Valley." Want to stay fit and healthy and have a long energised life? Keep away from a diet full of meat. My opposition to the killing of animals is relentless for many reasons and I see no reason not to make those points here. I'm used to the opposing voices. They just make me laugh.
xenzag, Dec 11 2013
  

       Take that one up with WBO boxing champion Timothy Bradley, who is a dedicated vegan.
xenzag, Dec 11 2013
  

       Well, this all well and good, and I am happy to lend [xen] my soapbox*.   

       However, given the title of this idea, this is a bit like walking into a vegan restaurant and complaining that there's no foie gras on the menu. I think we can safely say that this idea is aimed at people who like meat, liquid nitrogen, or both.   

       (*Of course, if you'd eaten your steak when you were a kid, you wouldn't need to stand on a soapbox.)
MaxwellBuchanan, Dec 11 2013
  

       Enough already.   

       People only came here to watch a chicken shatter.
MaxwellBuchanan, Dec 11 2013
  

       I read that as being the past tense of "chicken shitter".
hippo, Dec 11 2013
  

       In most humans the leg design and overall running efficiency appears tuned to endurance hunting, that is running an ungulate until it can no longer run away, then killing it. It does not appear that our capacity to sprint or sustain speed was much influenced by pressure to escape predation. The invention of pointy things seems to have been the killer app against all predation.
WcW, Dec 11 2013
  

       //We the wasteful will throw away a chicken butt whereas some one from a poorer nation would relish that tasty morsel.//   

       Not really. American slaughterhouses are extremely efficient at recovering meat, with almost nothing going to waste. Much of the recovered stuff may end up in pet food or fertilizer, or what have you, but it is not wasted.   

       As far as [xenzag] being a self righteous argument against vegetarianism, that's another story. Yes, a carefully constructed vegetarian diet is healthier. But for that matter, a carefully constructed diet period is healthier than what most people, vegetarian or omnivore eat.   

       Yes, cutting out meat is better for the environment, but so is reducing your consumption, or buying local, or switching a couple of meals from beef to chicken.   

       Yes, animals are living creatures. So what. I've interacted with cows, and sheep, and chickens, and none of them would be alive without human intervention, so choosing not to raise them for food isn't a kindness, it's basically calling for extinction. (Pigs are an exception, they are actually intelligent and able to survive in the wild, but they simply taste to good not to eat.) The same goes for most game animals. Since we've already killed off their natural predators, we have to step in or watch them starve by the thousands every winter.   

       As far as athletes, take your pick. Usain Bolt eats chicken nuggets in bulk; Phelps goes through eggs, cheese, and meat in huge quantities. Both the men's and women's Iron Man Championship record holders are omnivores.   

       Put simply, if you really oppose the consumption of animals, for whatever reason, you're going to do far better if you marshal reasonable arguments, discuss it in a friendly and non-condescending manner, and perhaps accept compromises. After all the net result's the same if you convince seven people to eliminate meat one day a week as if you convince one to go vegetarian.
MechE, Dec 11 2013
  

       //Put simply, if you really oppose the consumption of animals, for whatever reason, you're going to do far better if you...//   

       ...don't start out by wandering into a debate about the merits of liquid nitrogen as a butchering tool.
MaxwellBuchanan, Dec 11 2013
  

       In order to break up those really tough, grisly pieces of meat, I'd suggest immersing them in liquid hydrogen. Once fully immersed in a pot of liquid H simply place the pot over a low flame. Voila! Instantly puréed and cooked mince. (if you can find it and are still capable of caring.)
AusCan531, Dec 11 2013
  

       If you fed the animal on a high-glycerol diet shortly before LN2 exposure, you could probably market "viable suspended tissue" rather than "meat". It's gotta be fresh if it's still capable of a contractile response to the appropriate electrical stimuli.
bs0u0155, Dec 11 2013
  
      
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