h a l f b a k e r y
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A 'train points' line on a record perpendicular to song track info
to move the needle to start of album again .
Maybe a laser would have a clean enough cut to not interfere with song play
as repeat track would have to be cut after pressing .
Have the the old records but not the laser to try .
Turntable with repeat button.
http://www.all-unique.com/PioneerDD.html
Why not just do it this way? Circa 1978. [Cedar Park, Oct 04 2004, last modified Oct 21 2004]
A link for [Rods Tiger]
http://www.dukefarm.com/general.html
[Laughs Last, Oct 04 2004, last modified Oct 21 2004]
[link]
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So it's a groove that goes perpendicular to the regular one(s)? How will the needle / cartridge / tonearm follow it while the platter is rotating? What happens to the music when the needle passes by the perpendicular groove? |
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could it go to the middle and then turn around and come back again along a separate anti-clock route? we have discussed this before! |
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Yeah, we've done record grooves to death. |
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[wjt] Surely an over-genius such as yourself can see the limitations of this idea. Do you know what the phrase "sounds like a broken record" means? Care to guess? |
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but you might hear Pinky and Perky telling you weird stuff that messes with your mind. |
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Instead of a perpendicular track, maybe it could just be a hole, and then the needle could go to the other side and you wouldn’t have to turn the thing over... |
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A needle vibrates because of the groove . The needle can not be touching both sides of the groove at once
therefore a another groove can be plotted in this dead place .
This groove therefore can cut through the songs and can transfer the needle to restart the album .
Not all scratches stop the song or jump linearity. |
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Extension : At the song interval a junction can be cut controlled by a plug /lug which can be altered. The junction either plays the song or goes along a thru track to the next song . The plug controls / guides the needle on the desired path . |
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wa la - one sided song programmable vinyl with repeat . |
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no , well don't think so , in reality is a loop a klein ? |
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If the needle has momentum on one side rather than the other in the groove then there can be a repeat track hole . |
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[autosurgeon] No, please. I'm not proud of it. |
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[wjt] Voila, not "wa la".
"Not all scratches stop the song or jump linearity"
I've never seen a scratch that stopped a song on an LP, but any scratch will either cause the record to skip or affect sound quality. You're saying this groove is insignificant enough that the needle will ignore it as it plays, but deep enough that the needle will follow it when in order to return to the beginning of the album. I don't see how that's possible. I could be wrong. I'm still guessing that you're too young to have much, if any, experience with LPs. |
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I read it as wala and i thought the typo was the split in the word. |
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But then (voila!) i realised that wala isn't a word. |
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There are a few ways things could be done to avoid introducing pops, etc. but most of them would require either modifications to the player or else a relatively low groove density. |
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For example, one might be able to construct record grooves in such a way that the needle would ride in the bottom of the groove, and have the "return groove" be shallower. Using this approach, it would be possible to avoid having the presence of the return groove affect the sound in the main groove. Making the player reliably track the return groove, however, would be difficult. The only way I can see to manage that would be to have the return groove do an uphill "ramp" and jump every time it crossed the main groove. Unfortunately, most record needle assembly designs limit the maximum usable groove depth, and so making the return groove work reliably may be difficult. |
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I'll admit, though, it would be a cute concept if someone actually made such a record. |
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"For example, one might be able to construct record grooves in such a way that the needle would ride in the bottom of the groove, and have the "return groove" be shallower."
And the first time the needle (following this shallow groove) crossed over a deep groove, what would happen? The needle will blindly drop into the deep groove and begin playing the last two seconds of the last song. |
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I'm good with the "Dukes of Hazzard" approach, but what's wrong with the way things work now? |
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//...but what's wrong with the way things work now?// |
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Come come, [phoenix]! What kind of attitude is that? |
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//And the first time the needle (following this shallow groove) crossed over a deep groove, what would happen? The needle will blindly drop into the deep groove and begin playing the last two seconds of the last song.// |
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Imagine, for a moment, that a 14" record had a grove which only had to cross itself at one point. The audio playing part of the groove has a depth of 30 mils. At the end of the audio portion, the groove bends in toward the center of the disk and rides uphill to a depth of 10 mils. It then makes a fairly sharp swing across the audio groove, such that it's traveling at a rate of over 5 inches/second. On the other side of the audio groove, the groove depth is 20 mils and a the groove is "funnel"-shaped. Since the tone arm will cross the groove in under 10ms (momentum will carry it across), it won't have enough time to fall all the way down to the main groove. |
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If the tone arm had to cross the groove at multiple places, it probably could, but groove density would be limited by a need to have a "ramp" for the needle to ride up betweent tracks. |
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Expensive turntables may already do this (I just know mine doesn't), but why not just have the arm hit the end of the groove, lift as normal, then instead of returning to it's cradle, return to the start of the record again? This would cause problems with the difference between 33s and 45s obviously - only solution I have off the top of my head is a pattern cut into the groove near the end that would never occur in the 'normal' portion of the track, that lets the turntable know what type of record is loaded. All of this also gives the option for turning the repeat play on and off, instead of a record that will _always_ repeat.
Problems with jumping needles - damage to the sensitive needle (you should always place it down gently, not drop it), slight differences in atmosphere, gravity, etc (more humidty might slow the arms jump, lower gravity at the equator [is there lower gravity there? On a mountain then] may make it overshoot the 'landing ramp'. If a return track is cut, as in the original post, it will have to be either higher or lower than the audio track (as I see it anyway) - this can not be ignored by the player, it will make a loud pop - although these could be filtered out by a fairly expensive filter add-on for the amplifier. This also leads back to 'jumping needle' errors I mentioned.
Yeesh...long post... |
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Personally , I hate putting on my favourite record ,
getting sidetracked and returning to a hung up needle . |
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[supercat] idea . Alter needle information from being in one plane . The record groove could be deeper in two opposite quarters allowing a 'retrace' groove , or any other control function groove . This would add new function ( learning ) without forcing upgrade rubbish creation . |
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I still imagine that there is space for a retrace if cut properly . The simple case, in a vehicle crossroads ,
the car at speed is in no way going to make a 90 degree turn . |
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[auto] he's value for money alright. |
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Thinking more , I had the shallower idea after posting - but who had the idea first ? (eerie , info hyperspace comment) |
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which idea do you mean, wjt? |
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putting the info grove out of plane to the retrace grove by shallowness similar to [supercat]'s reply . |
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Oh , wa la because I'm so much younger and idea is good for Vinyl CD ROM idea |
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I'll have to learn to live of fishbone soup and have fishbone couture . |
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I'm now voting for this, based on good intentions and because I like records. |
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[inc-b] --
To solve that, there could be a "secondary arm" which matches the position of the tone arm until you start the tone arm on the first song. The secondary arm stays hovering just above that starting place.
Then, when the tone arm is moving back to the start, it touches the secondary arm and that's how it knows where the first track begins. |
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