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Much like the SETI distributed computing project that used home PCs to crunch numbers for a good cause, I propose using the global human resource of Internet users to teach a computer how to translate.
Bilingual users would sign-up at a website, or download an applet that would send them a paragraph
every so often. It would also send what it thought was a good translation of that paragraph, then ask the user to correct it. Once corrected, the user would send it back, and the computer would compare this answer to the thousands of others it had received for the same chunk of text.
As more and more chunks of language received the human touch, the computer would learn all the rules (even though it couldn’t understand why) of translating any particular language into any other.
Over a period of months, a database of languages would be constructed. This could then be linked with voice recognition technology and used to translate speech in real time, for example between a Japanese and an American businessman. It could also be linked to services such as instant messenger and email. How about instantaneous subtitles for any movie, in the language of your choice?
I’m sure that many users around the world would be happy to participate in such a project, in the spirit of bringing humanity closer together, and breaking down the cultural barriers that so often lead to conflict.
A non-profit organization could be set up to administer the computers and write the software. This translation service would then be provided free of charge for anyone wishing to use it.
"Ebonify" standard English.
http://www.joel.net...NICS/translator.asp
[snarfyguy, Oct 17 2004, last modified Oct 21 2004]
Lost in translation
http://www.tashian.com/multibabel/
It talk pretty one day : A day enough speech [bristolz, Oct 17 2004, last modified Oct 21 2004]
Tha Shizzolator
http://asksnoop.com/
Teach a computer program shizzolate perfectly, fo' free, know what I'm sayin'? [thumbwax, Oct 17 2004, last modified Oct 21 2004]
Machine translation
http://www.diplomac...slation/machine.htm
Introduction to pros and cons. [squeak, Oct 17 2004, last modified Oct 21 2004]
Why computers can't translate like humans.
http://www.ttt.org/theory/barker.html
A theory. [squeak, Oct 17 2004, last modified Oct 21 2004]
Statistical language translation techniques
http://www.google.c...anguage+translation
This is an area of great research now. [krelnik, Oct 17 2004]
[link]
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Given the amount of illiteracy I see on the web, the program probably won't be any better than Babelfish, will it? |
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Why not just feed a computer lots of texts with good translations? It wouldn't be free, and internet users wouldn't get to help, but maybe it would work. |
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Hey [snarfyguy], you just gave me another idea: a program that translates crappy North American English (like mine) that kids use on the web these days, into real English, fit for the queen of England. |
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It’d be great for job applications: |
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“Dude, wazzup? FWIW, I’m like, looking to score some blingbling, and need $. I’ve RTFM, and am your man – LOL ;) |
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I cannot imagine what a mess this would make of English. |
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// a program that translates crappy North American English (like mine) that kids use on the web these days, into real English, fit for the queen of England.// |
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There's already a program that does the reverse (sort of), that ebonification thing (link). |
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The original idea should work. |
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Say the computer sent out 1000 examples it wanted corrected. They’d all have to be done in the same incorrect way to screw the system up. |
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The computer would look for the most similar responses, and choose the ‘average’ as the correct translation. |
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The computer could also specify a response as it would be spoken, or as it would be written. |
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This assumes languages are a sort of concrete and absolute set of words, which they arent, they are very mutable. This translator would be permanently out of date. And I also suspect minority dialects of a language would be "shouted down" by their more numerous counterparts. |
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I tried translating your idea, [TIB]. Here is what the 100 monkeys gave back. |
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The house of _ used of Poich, this one small directly of the SILK low
that one of the Fabrik of the Finanziers ' development that given is
distributed perfectly, this GCV, of the way this, those irradiates of
the breathing of the one of the extremity they them calculations to
compire for a good cause, the one that the attributions they conclem
deeply all what nell ' with her the extremity, the end to begin
Goettinnen with the clients of the Internets of the Goettinnen of the
human beings of the activities, of that with a calculation to be the
informed extremity, because it is translates. |
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Bilinguist of the
recognition in the clients in the launchings of the Vorpostens of the
internal direction and is with a place of the system of the network,
or an applet downloaden, of this, a complete point, of which it would
load very frequently. Ulteriorly, this thought is which is a good
translation of this point, if the client is to the row in a furnace
one around therefore to the extremity that the demands had loaded to
him to the repair in him. Not not seriously, of that one the repairs,
calm the other low direction stops of the elasticity with the
marcatura the client, who had received around or and this answer that
would be organized, calculation with migliaia, of him for the same
greater part of the text. |
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Since then which to this time in this period
and to the greatest deliveries of the human beings of the nature of
the language of the contact, the calculation had was with the
experience receives, of that this complete guide of the reference
(demanded if couldn_t includes/understands because) that is all the
language to translate, that it was same risoluta in diverse those. |
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During the months a point under the surface of the data of the
languages was manufactured. This could depend excess after the
technology of the voice illuminated the will of the marcatura of the
excess of desires and that it was, the applications of that real time
the speech to the name of the data for, because an example will tell
to the recognition of the film to a Japanese man and American to
translate. The fast email of and could do very repaired also, being
with the services as the post office they he this transform of the
thing inside into the extremity the very intentional end to say this
you he with the titles they he of the that undersailor for a film, in
the chosen language of the relative one? Bloccando |
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I_m the fact that
many clients around in the world, ragia the water after that lucky
person relative or to the interior the plant or the presses
participated the extremity frequently, around to the humanity with the
lateral part of the summary and to ____ to the repair inside of that
one the left extremity, that is avan it cultural of the barriers, of
totally very with the parents in the conflict. |
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An organization without
the zone of the advantage could repair, the extremity, the extremity,
forms and software writes shutdowns with the reference of the
computers. This service the then translation has fixed launchings for
each commutation possible, that one, that it would wish to use. |
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Read up first. There is an unbelievable amount of information concerning machine translation on the web. I've added a link which is a pretty good introduction to it's strengths and weaknesses. If [tobyp] turns up in this string, listen to the man. He knows what he's talking about. |
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Bad idea. Just two bilingual people never agree on a translation. I mean NEVER. |
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Hmm. Your link seems to offer more reasons why M.T. is flawed than why it might work [squeak]. I don't want to expand the annotations to talk about M.T. as a general concept, but I personally have done quite a lot of work on automated textual analysis and in my experience trying to fit a rule-based system round any language (with all their historical ambiguities and contradictions) can only be at best a partial solution.
With reference to [TIB]'s idea, I think its a little too simplistic an approach. |
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I'm with [Kreuner]. The English language is so abstract at times, it takes a human brain to understand it. I remember my favorite example from Modern Linguistics (a class I took in college), the sentence:
"Time flies like an arrow."
How does a computer parse this? Unless it knows the context, it could interpret this several different ways. *Time flies* could be flies (like fruit flies) of the time variety (is time the noun or is flies the noun?), *like* being approving of, or similarly, etc... |
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Computers, darnit, although useful, just aren't smart when it comes to our ridiculously complex language. What we need is a new language that computers completely understand. That gives me an idea; I should learn to speak C++ orally. |
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I think it's fair to say that a distributed computing approach stands to do a better job than something like Babelfish. I think there's some merit to the idea on that basis. |
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Those are all points that can be figured out later. They don't detract from the merit of the idea, in my opinion. Regardless of the point of the idea, it seems logical to me that a distributed computing method stands a good chance of coming closer to perfect translation than a stand-alone system does. |
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Kreuner, you just like to hear yourself argue. |
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[custardlove] and [kreuner]. I am aware that machine translation works pretty well in some situations (meteo in Canada being the usual example given) and that it also has many, well documented problems. I put the link on to show [TIB] some of the ups and downs as it doesn't sound like he's done much (if any) reading up. The idea, in fact, sounds almost identical to translation memory systems which are thoroughly baked (though I'm not saying they work or not, just that they exist).Google gives 444,000 hits. So [M-F-D]. |
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See second link for more pertinent text concerning computers and their problems with translation. |
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I think the vast majority of human languages contain shortcuts because humans are lazy. These shortcuts bring in ambiguity of meaning that won't be understandable to, or translatable by, any one/thing that doesn't understand laziness. Once you get your computer to understand laziness, it won't translate anything for you anyway. |
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Since it’s so difficult to accomplish any type of machine translation that would ever approach the level of a proficient human translator, I guess we should just give up trying.
I was really looking forward to speaking to the in-laws in their own language ;)
Check out cyc.com. That looks similar to my idea. |
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Where can hamsters get free pearls online? |
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//Where can hamsters get free pearls online?// |
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There was an interesting article in the New York Times recently about using statistical methods to train computers to translate. Basically you feed a learning program a bunch of matching source texts in the same pair of languages, and it learns how to translate. Its a computerized version of the Rosetta Stone. They claim it actually works. (I'd link to the article, but the Times has already punted it to their archive so it can't be read online for free). |
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Anyway, you could use something like this idea to supply the matching texts for input to the statistical program. So I believe that this idea could be useful, if these statistical translation methods actually do work. |
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See link for many resources on the web about statistical translation. It is an area of much research, and some researchers have already built quite good translators using this technique. |
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