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The Discipline Machine is simply a small (3'x4'x5') box, soundproofed with an air handling mechanism and live video feed output into which you can place an utterly rampant child for a period of time until they calm down and learn their lesson or whatever happens when children stop acting like the devil
incarnate. This is useful for kids between the ages of 2 and 20. There is a water bottle feed, gerbil style.
There may be the need for a built in maximum locking time interval, say 2hrs, so that people don't start using these things in abuse crimes, but our lawyers aren't sure it is necessary at this time.
Also, it is self cleaning. You just pour a half gallon of water into a reservoid on the top, press a button, and in 20 mins the interior is clean as a whistle. Preliminary studies in some countries have found that the device may double as a toilet.
Toddler Cage
Toddler_20cage
similar concept. [bungston, Oct 17 2008]
Jean-Paul Sartre
http://en.wikipedia...ki/Jean-Paul_Sartre
"C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le gare....." [8th of 7, Oct 22 2008]
Seattle Automated Toilets
http://www.nytimes....7/us/17toilets.html
The idea seems to imply such existing toilets could be modified. The city scrapped these toilets and sold them at a massive loss. Pretty good article. [Amos Kito, Oct 23 2008]
[link]
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Add a few strobe lights, smoke machine and "The Japanese Popstars" and I might just climb into this myself. |
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2. The air handling system is an unecessary luxury. |
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3. The water flow should be continuous, alternating between hot and very cold. |
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could make it so the child has to spin the hamster wheel x amount of times before the box opens again. |
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I’d prefer if this object were on display completely sealed, inert. You’d need just one, placed in some accessible location of town. “See that, kids? It’s the Discipline Machine. You don’t want to know what it’s like in there.” So Time Out can still be anywhere convenient to the parents. |
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[8th], yes perhaps the dimensions are a bit large. Though, I wanted to accomodate a larger age range. Also, <off the record> I like your idea of using the water feed as a form of torture. Would you be interested in a high end position on our design team?</oor>. |
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[Amos], a main point of all this is that people are raising kids in homes that don't have more than one room. This product would perserve a 'go to your room' type dynamic without throwing kids in broom closets (which was also a main motivation for [bungston]'s Toddler Cage). I feel honored that one thinks the machine could be used as a symbol of the potential terribleness of life if children act like animals. Thank you. |
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"It's like this dear. Until the box is opened little Billy is neither alive nor dead but exists in a quantum state. It's better this way." |
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"We used to have a cat who misbehaved." |
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I thought for sure this would be an [8/7] idea, |
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This is an old idea. The way it went is you take the child and
put it in a barrel and seal the top. You feed them through a
hole in the side. When they become teenagers you plug up
the hole. |
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//Also, it is self cleaning. You just pour a half gallon of water into a reservoid on the top, press a button, and in 20 mins the interior is clean as a whistle// |
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Handy for giving children a bath, whether they want it or not. |
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This will get you jail time over here. |
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BTW, this kind of flippant promotion of child abuse is a bit
much. If it's meant tongue-in-cheek, then it really isn't
funny. If it isn't, you really need to read up on the subject
before you have kids. |
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Children sometimes act like children. Saying that children
act "like animals" has a lot more to do with the person
observing the behavior than the actual behavior of the
child. Trying to completely control their occasional
impulsiveness and tantrums will do very bad things to them
later on. |
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Placing them in a closet, or any other confined space is
never, ever, ever, a legitimate form of discipline, and
does not teach the child anything other than cruelty exists
and that it is used by the people who is supposed to love
them. It is demeaning to take a child out of their normal
environment and to place them into a purpose-built
contraption mean to cut them off from human contact and
empathy. |
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It is stupid and weak to suggest that this is the proper way
to handle a tantrum. Simply placing the child in such a
thing would be an abuse crime. It would also result in the
child being frightened and alone, for the sake of your
present peace. |
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Therefore [marked-for-deletion] cruelty. |
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You apparently don't have children, [nmc]. If you do then I'm impressed that you're allowed keep them sedated in your nanny state. |
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The devil is not an animal. And humans are animals by category, so I am doubly confused regarding the relevance of your annotation, [nmc]. I appreciate your sensitivity towards the topic, but I will stand that this idea does not promote cruelty, and so I wish for the mfd to be retracted. There are no studies indicating that tempoary isolation induces any sort of permanent damage to an individual; if you present them then I will gladly remove the idea. |
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// and does not teach the child anything other than cruelty exists and that it is used by the people who is supposed to love them // |
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Your argument is fallacious. Being taught to expect to be cruely treated by someone you thought loved you is not only a normal part of adult life, but an essential preparation for marriage and its aftermath. |
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PS. Gram: "who are supposed to" |
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//You apparently don't have children// |
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Two. Seven and five, both girls. Neither are medicated.
Nanny state? Louisiana? we still beat kids in the schools
here. |
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//The devil is not an animal. // |
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So it's better to say that your child is behaving like a
physical manifestation of all of the evil forces in the
world? I get that it is hyperbole. "Like animals," not so
much. |
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//Your argument is fallacious.// |
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//Being taught to expect to be cruely treated by someone
you thought loved you is not only a normal part of adult
life, but an essential preparation for marriage and its
aftermath.// |
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//And humans are animals by category// |
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Not in the sense that it is used in the simile. |
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//so I wish for the mfd to be retracted// |
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(There are no studies concerning the effects of racking
your children for short periods, but it would be cruel to
rack your children even a little bit, just as it is cruel to put
them in a closet to punish them. Even for a short period.) |
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I wonder about people who need a full study to verify the
CFO. In any event, forced seclusion in child mental health
facilities is recommended only when there is a substantial
risk of physical harm. |
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Spare the rod and you spoil the child. |
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What exactly is cruel about this? Please change the language; I like f-bombs when used in a different context. You've used it to strengthen the depth of your feelings, and I'm not buying. |
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//It is demeaning// Via the online dictionary: Demeaning - causing awareness of your shortcomings. In this respect, then yes, I agree that the device is demeaning. Demeaning does not indicate cruelty, though. |
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//It is stupid and weak//... Neither of these qualifiers indicate cruelty. And I resent the stupid part, I want this to be a very high end device. I would encourage a definitive explanation of the cruelty inherent in said device if the mfd is going to stick. |
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... maybe I should have posted something about a lockable, soundproof play pen? Let's be realistic. You can always throw some toys and a bottle of juice in there, anyways. |
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We have two children, currently aged 6 and 8. Everyone who meets them comments upon how well-spoken and well-behaved they are. Neither of them have been scarred by a little "old-fashioned" discipline, so far as anyone can tell. |
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I am not especially draconian in my treatment of them but they have been confined to a room not their own on a number of occasions (sending a child to his / her bedroom is not a punishment if it contains books and toys with which to occupy the child). |
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My wife and I have been selected by the children's school to act as parenting coaches for parents of children with discipline problems. This was a decision made after we were assessed by both the school and a representative from the state Dept of Child Services. Neither of them have a problem with our practice of putting a fractious child in a "time out" situation for a while, in a room where there is little to distract the chiild. |
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In all other circumstances we treat our kids as we would if they were adult staff, involving them in discussions on all critical decisions affecting them and their future. They also understand that improper actions may bring undesired consequences, including temporary sequestration from family activities. |
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Tell us you're not breeding a couple of precious darlings who don't understand the nature of discipline, responsibility and social etiquette, [nomocrow]? We have some neighbours whose 3 year old daughter is never scolded, never punished and who is allowed stay up until she decides to go to bed. This is sometimes not until after midnight. We figure these people have bred a monster who will destroy their lives by the time she reaches about age 15. They are both CPAs, one of them still working in the midsized accounting practice they jointly own. |
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Absolutely agree, [UB] - but the kind of discipline you advocate is very different from locking a child in a small soundproof box |
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Miss Wibble locked me in the stationery cupboard at my primary
school for being naughty. Yes, it was scary, humiliating, dark and
lonely, but it never did me any harm. I'm a rational, well-mannered
moral person. No penchant for violence or cruelty. I am a happy, easy
going chap with a positive glass-is-half-full approach to life. I enjoy
reading. I have been known to go to the theatre and enjoy the arts. I'm
a nice guy, me. |
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<considers possible direct relationship between first paragraph, second paragraph, [theleopard]'s attitude to Miss Wibble, and her current state of non-life> |
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Did she teach geography ? If she taught Geography, she got what was coming to her. |
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// That's just fucking sad. // |
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Sad, but oh, so true, so very true. We are willing to concede that there may well be human females who don't turn out to be humourless, egotistical, status-obsessed selfish vindictive bitches after a few years of close aquaintance. It's just we haven't met any (yet). |
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She was a jack-of-all-trades primary school teacher, but yes, she
taught some geography. She taught geography all too well. |
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Did I mention how dead she is? |
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You did, but you should probably change her name to something a little more pseudonymic - you know what the authorities are nowadays - the slightest excuse and all that. |
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It is a sad fact of modern life that the Criminal Justice system displays such a laissez-faire attitude towards those guilty of the appalling vicious, premeditated and unjustified crime of geography teaching. |
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[theleopard] you should be grateful it was a stationary cupboard. If it was the kind of cupboard which moved about at high speed you might have got seriously hurt. |
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Ha! Good thing I can edit my annotations, eh? Aha! |
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But if I leave my annotation then the shame of your error will endure for ever. |
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Others will naturally assume you just made it up, to make me look silly
or something. |
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Tut tut [hippo], and thrice tut. |
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And it's spelt "annotation" by the way. Dear oh dear. |
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I agree with you, [hippo]. I was using a personal experience to point out the absurdity of [nomocrow]'s kneejerk reaction to the idea. At least, I hope it was a kneejerk reaction, and that he/she isn't actually serious about the Shock! Horror! tabloidesque shit he/she wrote. |
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Six of my former teachers and three of my former lecturers are dead, including two who died of unnatural causes, in suspicious and violent circumstances. None of those dead actually taught geography, as far as I can recall. |
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// None of those dead actually taught geography // |
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Something of an oversight, that. Well, don't just sit there typing, man - get out there and finish them off ! |
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The small size is a necessity, resulting from the intended consumer's living space. It is not too small that a child can not have a chair in which to sit, space to lie down on a mat, stand up and jump around a bit, etc. It is, considering the limited state of some people's living space, optimal. Owning one of these in a larger home would/should be frowned upon. |
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[8th], it is my experience that you tend to only allow dimensions of personality in others that you are familiar with; that is, your own. A truly nonmaterialistic person would interpret materialism as a peculair, perhaps healthy form of idolatry. Maybe. Anyways, I wouldn't call myself materialistic either. But, I did buy a pair of shoes the other day that are killer. Flat out homicidal, they are. I'm invincible with those damn things on. |
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//Tell us you're not breeding a couple of precious darlings who
don't understand the nature of discipline, responsibility and
social etiquette, [nomocrow]? // |
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Why? You probably wouldn't believe that my children are
perfectly behaved in public without my having to hit them. |
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Which they are. They are even well-spoken. They have time-
outs; we just don't use a closet for it. |
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And don't give me that Shock! Horror! hyperbolic B.S. I think
my response was correctly measured for an idea that promotes
locking a kid in a closet to discipline them. |
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You people are actually defending locking a kid in a closet for
periods up to two hours to discipline them. I don't think that
there is anyway of saying "I promote locking a kid in a small
space for up to two hours to discipline them" without sounding
like a criminally bad parent. |
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Actually that reminds me [UB] - I've met your children, and they were lovely. |
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//I don't think that there is anyway of saying "I promote locking a kid in a small space for up to two hours to discipline them" without sounding like a criminally bad parent.// |
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Well, you just did, and you couldn't possibly be a criminally bad parent, could you? |
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BTW, who said anything about hitting children, until you brought it up? Is your conscience bothering you, [nmc]? |
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What about locking other people's children in a small space ? Nothing wrong with that. |
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Shopping centres should have special "squauking brat" patrols. When one of the little buggers starts playing up, pull the alarm handle ..... within seconds, a Man with a Cage on wheels - dressed as the Child Catcher from Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang - will scoop up the blighter and cart it off to a suitably imposing "dungeon" from whence it can be (optionally) retrieved by the prents, or alternatively sold for body parts on eBay. |
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If someone else did that to your kids you would want to put them
in jail. |
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Jean-Paul Sartre said, "Hell is other people". <link> |
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But he was mistaken; Hell is other people's children. |
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Wow, this one created some unexpected controversy. I thought it was going to be a machine to convert people to worshipping the idol of your choice. I never could read. Or spel. |
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[UB] You got me. Your logic is impeccable. It defies the very
need to take statements in context. |
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I merely did it because your over-the-top reaction was rather obviously taking the idea out of context. Glass houses and stones, my friend. |
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Somewhat baked (Google Thorndike's puzzle boxes or B.F. Skinner + Operant Conditioning) |
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I'm a little late in the debate though so just imagine that I had said something very poignant and mildly offensive. |
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