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I believe you' ve heard of accoustic levitation, the use of sound waves to suspend non-magnetic objects in mid-air? I believe it is used for containerless processing. Well, why not use it in a swimming area (such as a pool) to hold swimmers up in the water? This should be easier to do than using it(acoustic
levitation) in air because of bouyancy and because water is a denser medium than air, which [I imagine] would help it(the water) both to conduct sound and impart upward force (generated in the water acoustically) to the swimmers. According to my calculations, the upward force that the acoustic levitation device would have to generate would not have to be much more than 1/2 to 1 ounce per square inch.
Some notes on acoustic levitation
http://esapub.esrin...pffv6n3/stiv6n3.htm
It exists, for smallish masses. [RayfordSteele, Oct 06 2004]
Liquid metal
http://www.scitoys....l/liquid_metal.html
[caspian, Jan 15 2005]
Gallium
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium
Also has link to Galinstan alloy [caspian, Jan 15 2005]
Diamagnetic levitation
http://www.hfml.ru.nl/froglev.html
Levitating frogs - because they can [Frankx, Jul 31 2006]
Annotation:
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People floating in water! This is quite mad. |
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1. You have an excellent username, Ponce.
2. Good to see you keeping the British end up and using Imperial measures in your calculations.
3. Wouldn't the material nature of the water in the pool have some sort of detrimental effect on the efficacy of the acoustic whajemacallit, an effect seemingly not dealt with in your calculations. |
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If you want to move an idea to a new category, simply select a new category from the box that appears below the idea text. |
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Sadly, as people have virtually the same density as water, the sound waves will pass right through them. |
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[ldischler]: If that didn't sound fatal, it'd be really really cool. Tell me it's not fatal. |
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(Physically fit) people do have the same density as SALT water, give or take a few ounces per...uhm...fluid ounce. But as long as someone's got a low-enough body fat percentage, freshwater would probably work just fine. I, as an example, simply cannot float. My head is the only part of my body that's bouyant anywhere but the Dead Sea. |
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How does this work - explain the "acoustic lavitation" bit and the fish goes away. |
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Or at least starts levitating over the water. |
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This is pretty cool, but two questions:
1)Would the soundwaves then go out into the air
becoming really annoying?
2)Would swimmers hear the waves really loud? |
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Finally, disregarding the first two, if this works, I could
see it implemented at local pools as a safetymeasure. ie.
someone is in trouble, lifeguard hits a button activating
the sound waves, then jumps in. This could save lifes, I
really hope it works. |
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high or low frequency soundwaves <20Hz >20000Hz arent very good for animals or humans and if your gonna play a note quite loudly wont this get quite annoying? |
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Oddly enough, waves around or below 20 Hz are associated with the "Brown note," which according to rumor causes uncontrollable bowel movements. |
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It doesn't really do this, but I thought it'd be a funny reference. |
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//people have virtually the same density as water, the sound waves will pass right through them// |
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I would expect that while the average density is nearly equal, discrete parts of the body have different densities. Could the sound waves be tuned for bone? |
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Wouldn't a person with a larger...surface area...be levitated moreso than average? In theory, his or her density should be the same as anyone else, so wouldn't s/he 'levitate' more? |
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Is there anyone viewing this Web page who can build a "surface-floating" pool? I hope so. All it would take is underwater speakers of a certain type, and some electronics, both of which probably exist, and may be cheap enough for this purpose( I'm only talking about generating 1/2 to 1 ounce-per-square-inch of upward force with the sound). You then just put these into a swimming pool, or even a pond. |
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Why bother with acoustic levitation? Just fill your pool with some very dense fluid (like mercury - at 13.57 times the density of water, swimmers will float with just ~7% of their body "underwater".) |
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//Why bother with acoustic levitation? Just fill your pool with some very dense fluid (like mercury - at 13.57 times the density of water, swimmers will float with just ~7% of their body "underwater".)// |
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For one thing, acoustic levitation, unlike mercury and some other dense fluids, is niether poisonous nor sticky. For another, it(acoustic levitation) could work in natural bodies of water, such as ponds and rivers, or with some additional equipment, even in the middle of the ocean. You could have people floating like corks in the middle of the ocean! |
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//Why bother with acoustic levitation? Just fill your pool with some very dense fluid (like mercury - at 13.57 times the density of water, swimmers will float with just ~7% of their body "underwater".)// |
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I've been thinking, and concluded that maybe [csea] has a point, as there might be very dense fluids (or dense-enough fluids) that are niether poisonous, nor sticky, nor too expensive (for most pools). Can [csea] tell us that such fluids exist, and tell us what these fluids are? If so, his "surface -floating" pool would be much simpler than mine, much easier to implement. |
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3M used to make a whole series of dense, inert fluids. As clear as water, but several times as heavy. Unfortunately, while the liquids themselves were safe, the precursor chemistry was not, so they took them off the market. The tradename was Fluoroinert. (The problem 3M had was actually with Scotchguard. One ominous comment about it: "the active ingredient in its product now universally contaminates the American population, and will persist in our blood for years to come.") |
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Gallium is about 6 times as dense as water, but it freezes and expands at around 30 degrees C. |
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There's also an alloy which freezes at -20 degrees C, Galinstan (Wikipedia says it's a trade name), but I don't know how dense that is. |
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I saw these mentioned on Bill Beaty's website. |
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Maybe we can replace the acoustic levitation in my "surface-floating" pool idea with very-wide angle water jets, pointed upward from the bottom of the pool. It would not only be simpler to understand and implement, but maybe more energy-efficient as well. Water jets with a pressure of 1 ounce per square inch would not have to be very powerful. Due to bouyancy, 1 ounce per square inch would be all the upward force the jets would have to generate for "surface-floating". |
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"Gallium is about 6 times as dense as
water, but it freezes and expands at
around 30 degrees C." - sounds like
fun. Not only could you float easily, but
your body-heat would create your own
personal liquid environment in an
otherwise solid pool. You'd just have to
swim very slowly, melting your way
through. |
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My understanding of the sonic levitation is that you create a standing wave (basically a vibrating area with boundaries) and then place something on top of it. When the item drops down, the vibration kicks it up again. It doesn't work if the vibration goes right through you. Also it sounds painful. Like a massage chair from hell. One vote against. |
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In my last annotation, I said that we wouldn't need sonic levitation, or any of its problems, to have a "surface-floating" pool. We coud simply use water jets, pointed upward from the bottom of the pool, instead of sonic levitation. In fact, these jets would be preferable [to sonic levitation]. |
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It might be possible to use sonic levitation to force fish out of the water. Harvest them with landing nets. |
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//We coud simply use water jets// Oh great - a pool full of the results of mass colonic irrigation. Bone. |
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//3M used to make a whole series of dense, inert fluids. As clear as water, but several times as heavy. The tradename was Flourinert.
** ldischler, Jan 14 2005; Gallium is about 6 times as dense as water, but it freezes and expands at around 30 degrees C. There's also an alloy which freezes at -20 degrees C, Galinstan (Wikipedia says it's a trade name), but I don't know how dense that is.
I saw these mentioned on Bill Beaty's website.
** caspian, Jan 15 2005// I did research on all the above-mentioned fluids, and found that they were too expensive for swimming pools (hundreds of thousands of dollars to fill up a pool?! Forget it!). So, that means we're stuck with acoustic levitation and water jets. Water jets would seem to be the cheapest way to do this("surface-floating", that is), if you think about it. Acoustic levitation has a good chance of coming in-between [water jets and special fluids] cost-wise. |
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Maybe people could actually live in a "surface-floating" pool. For one thing, I think they could sleep in this pool because they could avoid drowning simply by lying on their backs. |
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This sounds like a really fun idea. But I would not sleep on it for fear of rolling over in my sleep or becoming very pruney. And I think water jets would be a less than optimal sollution. With the jet, unlike with the acoustic levitation, large amounts of water are being forced to move up. Then they have to go somewhere. If you didn't have a very specially shaped pool, I think there's a good chance that you'ld create dangerous turbulent currents and undertows at the edges of the pool, sucking swimmers under and keeping them there. |
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Here are the surface-floating pool hazards mentioned above by Erfunden, along with some possible preventions - |
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*rolling over in sleep- alarm belt with mild shock, alarm devices you put in ears. Also, you could send cold water through some of the water jets, if your "surface-floating" pool uses water jets. All of the above-mentioned systems would, of course, be activated automatically by sensors that detect rolling-over. |
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*pruny skin- lie on front while awake, on back while sleeping. That way, each side of the body gets some break from the water. |
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*getting sucked-under at the pool edges- A) inward pointing jets that acivate when someone nears the edge. B) using only one edge of the pool at a time as the water return edge and switching to the opposite edge for water return when the whole poolful of people gets too close to the current water-return edge. This would be operated automatically with sensors, just like the inward-pointing jets in suggestion A above. C) As Erfunden suggested,go back to acoustic levitation, instead of using jets ( this might consume more power than jets, though). |
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I think this "surface-floating" pool would be good for both reality shows and psychology experiments (In both, you could watch people as they live in this pool). Also, I think these pools("surface-floating") would be good for overhead "mermaid tanks". Just have the second floor of a building be a "surface-floating" pool with a transperant bottom. Spectators would just look up through the tranperant bottom to see the "mermaids". The "mermaids" would not have to hold their breaths (I think they could easily prop their heads out of the water while lying on their fronts), and could even talk to the spectators below (if you provide an intercom system between the "mermaids" and the spectators, preferably, a hands-free system built into the walls). |
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[ponce] Come on, its been a couple of years since this - your first and so far only idea. There are no rules about it or anything, but it would be nice to see a new idea from you instead of churning this one back to the front page every few months. I'd guess that at least some of the bone collection is because other 'bakers get annoyed at this. Tell you what, here's a bun, which puts you a net bun up, and there'll be another bun for a new idea. OK? |
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Agreed, [CF]. What a gentle way of putting it. If I ever need tact advice I know where to turn. But while it's up there... |
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//Could the sound waves be tuned for bone?// Since the sound waves would propagate through the flesh before reaching the bone, and since the force exerted on the bone would have an equal-and-opposite force on the medium immediately adjacent to the bone, wouldn't this just be an amusing way to debone swimmers? |
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There's reference to acoustic levetation in the 'Master handbook of acoustics'. It uses two deep parabolic reflectors arranged vertically one above the other and facing each other, with an ultrasound generator at the focal point of one, to generate a high energy standing wave. Tiny shavings of cork are suspended at each of the nodes in the standing wave. 'High energy'. 'Tiny shavings'. You are not going to provide bouyancy to a human, not so's you'd notice. |
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Mythbusters did an experiment where they made quicksand. They were very bouyant in it. They made it by pumping water up through sand. |
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Maybe you could turn a small area in a lake or ocean into a "surface-floating" pool. Place water-jets under the lake or ocean water. Equip the apparattus with downward-pointing jets to keep it close enough to the surface. This is one thing you could not do with quicksand! However, I must admit that the quicksand idea, or a variation of it, would be great for the backyard. In fact, with this quicksand, you might be able to have most of the grounds of your house double as a "pool"! |
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Has no one mentioned diamagnetic levitation yet? Oh ok, I will then. How about diamagnetic levitation? (and a link, if I can...) You could have a "pool" with no water in it at all. |
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I'm still not sure about the original idea. Why would the experience be much different from swimming in a normal pool - I assume that floating slightly less deeply in the water is the point, but...? |
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Use Ferric Sulphate to increase the density of the water, but you would need to suit up. |
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With a water-jet "surface-floating" pool, the expeience would be more like a [cross between a real slippery(probably slippery as ice) water bed and a pool] than a normal pool, thereby making for a new expeience. You would not have to wear a special suit or anything, and unlike diamagnetcs, an impractically huge magnet would not be needed in order to support heavy objects such as people. |
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