h a l f b a k e r yWhat's a nice idea like yours doing in a place like this?
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i hereby propose a small device with a button, a display and a microphone on the outside and microprocessors combined with funny wiring on the inside. it has a slot for a memory card.
to make it useable, you first have to put sound files with bullshit samples on the memory card. the software running
in the device uses artificial neural networks (ANNs) which are calibrated on this dataset and "learn" it.
as long as you push the button, the device records and the ANN compares the recorded sound to the samples and displays a bullshit level between 0 (no corellation) and 1 (total bullshit).
it is important to note that i don't propose artificial intelligence that "understands" what is said - only the sound characteristics are used to determine the bullshit level.
units for bullshit level could be totally personal and unrelated - a given recording could have both 0.33 stevejobs and 0.52 nicolassarkozy.
addition:
cell phones equipped with this type of technology could automagically cut off the line to help preserving your valuable time.
libfann
http://sourceforge.net/projects/fann/
library for artificial neural networks [erlehmann, Jan 08 2008]
getting started
http://leenissen.dk...ingstarted-txt.html
getting started with libfann: training and execution [erlehmann, Jan 11 2008]
Try this place:
http://icanhascheezburger.com/
A site where an "all-lowercase and sometimes-without-spaces style of writing" is encouraged. [egbert, Jan 12 2008]
bullshit detector
http://web.archive....bullshit_20detector
Much more elegant [DrCurry, Jan 14 2008]
[link]
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Why do your idea titles never have spaces in them? |
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They're stolen to line the nests of space mice. |
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Two things are going to kill this, [erlehmann], namely, context and GIGO. |
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Training data is the main issue I think. I suggest that streaming it BBC Parliament as a high bullshit feed and The Comedy Channel as a low bullshit feed might work well. |
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jutta: "Idea's name (used in URLs)" inspired me to do it - i dont like %20 in URLs. |
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I always thought this was just as easy with your foot... oh, different type of bullshit. |
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//Why do your idea titles never have spaces in them?// |
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It looks like you're simply allergic to punctuation, [E. R. Lehmann] |
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You could make a fake one that's on whenever politicians are speaking, and no one would know it doesn't work. |
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// a fake one .... no one would know it doesn't work // |
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Strictly speaking, it does work, because it's consistant and repeatable. "Even a stopped clock is right twice a day." Th agument is actually Hermetic, and therefore philosophically invalid (because it is self-referent), but you might be able to fool some of the people most of the time; the "three party democracy" problem applies. |
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one little question that has nothing to do with spaces: why do you all hate this idea ? |
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Well, apart from the fact that this idea was written without regard for spelling and punctuation (a big no-no here at the HB)... |
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1.There's no explanation how these "sounds" will be recognisable as "bullshit", apart from your assertion that the machine will simply do that.
2. There seems to be a few other elements here that would best be described as "magic", including the specification of some rather arbitrary sounding measurement scales.
3. Your insistence upon it "automagically" cutting off telephone calls presents some problems, if possible.
4. We don't all hate it, it's a 1:2 ratio at the time of writing.
5. People are still far more effective at determining whether or not something is bullshit than machines are. That's why lie detector tests are not admissible evidence in any legally constituted court on Earth that I know about. (It's also a possible explanation for the reason people aren't falling over themselves in fulsome praise for the idea.) |
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So:
Fix your written language... [po] is the only exception to this rule. It's unfortunate that we are so pedantic here at the 'bakery, but that's how grumpy older folks can be about trivial things like spelling and grammar.
Explain away the magic aspects, rationally. They are something the HB doesn't tolerate.
Make it sound less like a rant and more like an idea.
Explain how it's going to be better at it than a human, at the task.
Try to make it interesting or funny. That sometimes endears you to others. |
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1. neural networks are good for pattern recognition, you can train them on datasets. so if you "feed" an ANN (that has the right parameters, it's a tricky issue) a dataset and correct it repeatedly, it can somehow "learn" the "rules". that by no means means you have an algoritm then, but you have some thingy that reproduces something that would more or less "fit in". |
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i advise you to try to understand how neural networks in general work, then read the libfann tutorial. |
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2. you could feed it any data elements - loudness or duration of pauses, for example, so it's entirely up to you. the whole audio stream may or may not work with a sufficiently sized ANN - but i bet compressed audio won't because compression is all about getting rid of redundancy (which is needed for patterns, as i understand the meaning of "pattern"). |
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3. i meant "cutting off the calls when reaching a certain bullshit threshold". this came to my head when i talked to a person on the phone who became loud and annoying which led me to drop the line. "automagically" means "without any user intervention": if the bullshit detector detects bullshit before i do, i will not be /that/ frustrated. |
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4. i like my idea too, of course, so it's more like 1:4. |
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5. this idea is to be meant as a practical joke and not to be taken seriously. also automated bullshit-testing seems way funnier than automated face-recognition. |
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no, i will not fix my language. outside of programming languages, official documents (law and the like), pedants are annoying. my grammar is fine as i know, or isn't it ? |
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[admin] spaces added to title (on this and other ideas of yours [erlehmann]) - oops, I missed the discussion about this at the top of the annos - feel free to edit them back if you want. Normally, silly title affectations would be automatically corrected, but if you've got a proper reason to eschew normal conventions, then carry on. |
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[zen_tom] lol no ? why did you do that ? |
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Sorry, see my edited post above... |
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Most ideas here are not meant to be taken seriously. This one seems to be a rather jaded joke with an 'apply technology x in some magical way' to make it work. [-] from me. |
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hmm, good one [DrC] - kind of like the Gong Show. |
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// pedants are annoying // |
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Prepare to be annoyed here then. We rule the place. |
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// [BING! BING! BING!] // |
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Hey look at that. It works. |
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Oh, a slow learner. This should be fun. |
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[+ erlehmann]love it!!! would love to spin-off a propagandadeflector. |
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personaly im sik of awl teh attenshun spelingandgramer get in this place i mean allthese outmoded punctuationangrammaranspeling ruls what foristhey useful anyway thay is for loosers if you me ask |
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I propose a box with some wires and stuff that can, at the push of a button (let's label it, I don't know, F7, just for kicks), read a set of written text and suggest alterations that may make the passage easier for a target audience to assimilate and comprehend. |
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I'm ambivalent about the idea, but I do dislike that it seems to rely on magic. Anyone can propose a magic-box-that-does-X and call it an idea. Personally, I'd like a magic box that transferred all the rounded down fractions of pennies of every bank transaction into my account. |
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But just to select one aspect that could be improved, how about describing which particular sound characteristics would be matched in order to determine the bullshit level? That would be a good start. |
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//pedants are annoying// Possibly, but
so are people who either write
carelessly or with an affectation. Either
way, it just distracts the reader and is
apt to annoy him. |
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Correct grammar, punctuation and so
forth are simple courtesies to the reader
- they allow him to read the idea
without the linguistic equivalent of a
buzzing fly distracting him. |
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It's not actually that different from
programming. Either way, the
interpreter's job is less difficult and less
likely to go awry. |
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If all you have is a weird writing style,
then that's fine. If, on the other hand,
the idea itself is worth reading, then it's
worth writing properly. |
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We make allowances for [po] and [po]
alone. |
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I think [erlehmann] was expecting the same extension of the courtesy given to [Treon], even after he had left the other two there, under the tinfoil. |
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I don't think we ever gave [Treon] an
exemption - we just gave up trying. |
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then i hereby ask you politely to give up trying. |
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Nah, we still work on [Treon] when we
get the chance. [po] only gets away
with it because here ideas and
annotations are sufficiently worthwhile
to justify the effort of reading text that
jars. Is it really so hard to find the
"shift" key? |
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The whole concept of taking time and
trouble over the writing on this site is
sort of an unwritten rule, or at least a
rule of thumb. You'll just get endless
grief if you flout it. But feel free. |
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//because here ideas and annotations are sufficiently// I do like to think that at some level, I make sense... |
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my text jars? could I sell that on Ebay? |
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//could I sell that// Now you've gone and
blown it. Now that we know you can
capitalize, you'll have no peace.... |
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Oh yes. 'Ebay'. vEry funny. |
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oh, everyone who knows anything knows that I can! Mr MB newbie... |
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What [MB] said. Of course, you're free to express yourself in any way you like, [erlehmann], but don't be surprised if people don't give you the same respect they might have done if you'd taken a bit of time over it and made it a little easier to read. Remember, you're not doing people a favour by posting your idea - they're doing you a favour by reading it. Best not to make it harder than it need be. |
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As to the idea - I have no idea what you're trying to say with it. Patterns of bullshit? What are you talking about? |
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There are two meanings of the world bullshit, none of which are really addressed by your idea. |
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1st meaning - bullshit as lies. "My real name is Steve". How would your device rate that statement? Is it true? Is it a lie? How would your device know? What about when people say things that they believe to be true, but are actually false? They're not lying, but they are talking bullshit. |
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2nd meaning - bullshit as meaningless doublespeak. A common favourite of politicians and business consultants. Sentences that sound like they should mean something, but actually don't. Again, detecting this is impossible using current technology. At present (and this is probably going to be true for a very long time to come), even the most state-of-the-art language recognition system (known as a human being) often has trouble detecting this type of bullshit. |
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Google - who have probably spent more time and effort than any other organisation in trying to construct algorithms that can deduce what written documents are about - have a huge team of super-sharp minds trying to detect bullshit (i.e. spam sites) and eliminating them from their results. Think of all the times you've clicked on a Google result and been disappointed by the result - and that's text, not natural language. |
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I've probably taken this idea more seriously than it was intended, but again, as a rule of thumb -if it's meant as a joke, and you have to explain it, then it's not a good joke. If it's meant as a joke, and you have to explain it, and you find it funny that you have to explain it, then - Congratulations! You're a troll in the making. |
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//oh, everyone who knows anything knows
that I can! Mr MB newbie...// Did I ever
claim to know anything? My only strength
is the unparalled depth and breadth of my
ignorance. Why, I know nothing about
subjects that most people haven't even
heard of. |
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po just popped a cap in your ass, MB, in true gangsta stylee... |
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My man tells me that the correct spelling is
"yo ass". |
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I stand corrected, homies. |
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Now you're just showing off. |
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She'll be randomly italicising next. |
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She wouldn't be that bold. |
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[Btw, I'm confused: I thought this site had an idea for a bullshit detector dating from the very earliest times - indeed the Wayback Machine verifies its prior existence - but I cannot find it now.] |
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DrC, one of the annotators of the original idea suggested an online aspect to the device, giving it the additional ability to respond to bullshit in text on websites. |
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Another annotator suggested it be given meta-awareness. |
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Both were readily agreed to by the author, whereupon the idea responded to its own description and promptly imploded. Apparently. |
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