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link Prison and School Budgets

Poor education leads to more prisoners, so why not connect their budgets
 
(+1, -1)
  [vote for,
against]

Poor education is a primary indicator for future prison residency.

If we improved the schools then the prisons would be less full, but there is no cooperation between these two linked institutions. If the budgets were linked, rather than competing for the same money then the systems would balance rather than spriral down.

A 1994 Arizona study found that 85% of the incarcerated population did not graduate from high school, and statistics from the US Dept. of Education indicate that 65% of inmates are illiterate.

macrumpton, Jun 05 2004

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       sp: prison.
po, Jun 05 2004
  

       prisoners can learn *so* much in prison.
whats the percentage of unincarcerated population did not graduate from high school?
po, Jun 05 2004
  

       school budgets are so f**king problematical as it is -1
po, Jun 05 2004
  

       Not much of an invention, really.
bristolz, Jun 05 2004
  

       More like flamewar bait. 100% of prisoners who did their time were never released on unsupervised passes -- I can't think of a way to make that appear better, so I draw conclusions from incomplete data and hire a statistician to make my case. Bad design.
dpsyplc, Jun 05 2004
  

       Common root cause: Dumb   

       Too dumb to stay in school. -> dropout
Too dumb to avoid getting caught. -> prison
  

       You have correlation, but no causality (unless you can present further proof).
kbecker, Jun 05 2004
  

       Meaning . . . what, exactly? That only the passive, aquiescent and submissive among us get educated?   

       Does this idea reference the formally, or institutionally, educated only or does it include the self-educated folks as well? I never went beyond high school (and a GED at that) but I haven't yet been incarcerated.
bristolz, Jun 05 2004
  

       # Meaning . . . what, exactly?
Psst ... make good students quickly (I've seen that, but don't know what to make of it sometimes)
dpsyplc, Jun 06 2004
  

       Kids need to buy into the education system at an early age. They need to be embraced and encouraged to stay in school. The schools are simply too large and impersonal to embrace every child. The teachers only know each child for 9 months of their life. Solution: Much smaller schools within walking distance of each student's home. Multiple grades in each classroom. Teachers have students for at least 4 years. Ideally, each child would have only 3 teachers in 12 years. Proof this would have a positive effect: National Spelling Bee kids are mostly home schooled. So are the highest SAT scoring college freshmen. Prisoners are REJECTS. Schools reject them at an early age. This must stop. We must stop herding kids into massive, ipersonal, wasteful institutions in which many kids get lost in the mass of humanity.
bobad, Jun 06 2004
  

       Having the same teacher for years is only good if the teacher is good (some are not) and if you and the teacher get on.   

       If this can't be guaranteed you are probably better off taking your chances with a lot of different teachers.   

       Smaller class sizes would of course be a great advantage, but nobody wants to pay for that.
RobertKidney, Jun 06 2004
  

       As to the idea: I don't see how linking the institutions will help much. They will still have to compete for the same money, and this looks like it can lead to an even worse downward spiral since it lets prisons take money away from education.
RobertKidney, Jun 06 2004
  

       //Much smaller schools within walking distance of each student's home. Multiple grades in each classroom. Teachers have students for at least 4 years. Ideally, each child would have only 3 teachers in 12 years//
I went to a school like this for a time. I did ok. So did some of my schoolmates. The others didn't. Then I went to a 1,500 student secondary school. I did ok. Some of my schoolmates did ok, too. The other's didn't. My conclusion: how well a student does at school has very little to do with the type of school and very much to do with the type of pupil.
  

       //Proof this would have a positive effect: National Spelling Bee kids are mostly home schooled.//
This is in no way proof of the proposition. Spelling is a very small part of schooling. Home schooling is not school schooling. The "proof" is at best proof of the spelling skillz of home schooled children.
  

       [kbecker] is correct, though I'd say "causation".   

       Anyway, in what way are these budgets to be linked? Porportionately? Inversely proportionately? By a big red rope?
calum, Jun 06 2004
  

       // Home schooling is not school schooling. The "proof" is at best proof of the spelling skillz of home schooled children. //   

       You conveniently ignored the SAT test scores.   

       You also ignored to address the reason WHY home-schooled children have "better spelling skilz". (I can see you weren't home schooled)   

       All kidding aside, there are many very small private schools in my area. Some of the schools have only 25-30 students in 12 grades. These students are allowed to go through the graduation ceremony at the local high school. These students get far far more than their their share of honors! Why is that? You're the brain, I'm the idiot. Please tell me.   

       I would also like for you to explain to me why all the mug shots in the local paper served time in the large public high school.   

       No, no I do not believe prison funding should be tied to school funding. But like it or not, schooling is linked tightly to criminality.
bobad, Jun 06 2004
  

       //You conveniently ignored the SAT test scores.//
Well, that *might* be because I haven't a clue what an SAT might be. Is it like the 11 plus?
  

       //You also ignored to address the reason WHY home-schooled children have "better spelling skilz"//
sp. skillz.
I felt free to ignore them as no reason was shown. Your justification for a proposal advocating smaller schools was based upon the perceived success of children educated at home. That's a non sequitur. Being taught in a school is, quite obviously, not being taught at home.
  

       // there are many very small private schools in my area ... You're the brain, I'm the idiot. Please tell me.//
I'm just guessing here but if the majority of the quiet, bright children attend smaller private (by which I assume you mean fee-paying) schools, leaving the poorer, angier, less intelligent children to be schooled by the state, of *course* there's going to be a disparity of honours. This is just one possible reason for the existence of the disparity. The issue is complex and will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but at least one thing will hold true: changing the shape of the infrastructure though which state education is provided will have little or no impact.
  

       //I would also like for you to explain to me why all the mug shots in the local paper served time in the large public high school.//
Rich people have less cause to commit crime and when they do, they're (a) not committing the type of crimes which result in mugshots in newspapers and (b) they're more likely to get away with it. The poor, the ones educated at the high school, they'll have less, want just as much and more likely they're very very angry.
  

       //schooling is linked tightly to criminality//
Again, that's correlation not causation. Illustrative and, at best, supportive of the theory of social dysfunciton and inequality as cause of criminality, it is most assuredly *not* the root of or catalyst for criminal behaviours.
calum, Jun 06 2004
  

       Bristolz that "only the passive, aquiescent and submissive among us get educated?" bit is probably true as education or at least good education is interactive, you need to make stupid mistakes and learn from them or get engaged by a subject and wish to find out more.   

       Macrumpton those statistics are suspect, you would need to know how percentages for graduation in the general population etc.
engineer1, Jun 07 2004
  

       Actually, I was questioning for clarity a now deleted annotation wherein those terms were used but not in a way that made any sense to me.
bristolz, Jun 07 2004
  

       Ok will edit the anno if you find it offensive etc.
engineer1, Jun 07 2004
  
      
[annotate]
  


 

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