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We went on vacation for a week. (several years overdue from extenuating circumstances we are not supposed to talk about) Couple of things I noticed;
One; Mexico has to chem-trails. It would be far too obvious in a region which can not form con-trails.
Two; when I get back Trudon't has imposed
legislation so that YuToob has completely changed over night.
Any and all videos once pertaining to Trudon't and the Freedon't convey have disappeared and been replaced, (for a very short amount of time with "easy listening music") and now no more free speech.
In fucking Canada people!
...
Still think I'm just an anti-vax conspiracy theorist and that all is good?
I don't know about any of you...
...but I've had enough.
https://www.smbc-co....com/comic/conspire
[a1, Mar 03 2023]
Is the youtube thing about this?
https://www.arabnew.../node/2257646/media
Possibly unintended consequences? [Loris, Mar 03 2023]
Bill C-11
https://c2cjournal....sor-online-content/
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, Mar 03 2023]
Will the Last Person To Leave the Planet Please Shut Off the Sun?
https://www.baen.co...81680570434__12.htm
For the longest time I really thought California would stick around, but they finally located a world with a 9,000-mile beach and a native populace that specialized in making sandals and cheap gold jewelry [Voice, Mar 03 2023]
Ghostbusters: Do you believe in...
https://www.youtube...watch?v=NFX4fmldZFs
[Voice, Mar 08 2023]
Today’s installement
https://www.gocomic...itycheck/2023/03/09
[a1, Mar 09 2023]
We just ain't gonna pay no toll.
https://www.vice.co...al-copycat-protests
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, Mar 09 2023]
Funny stuff.
https://www.google....6df,vid:fJRGDW4lbss
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, Mar 09 2023]
Bill C11 progress
https://www.parl.ca...o/en/bill/44-1/c-11
[a1, Mar 10 2023]
Ass hats in action.
https://www.youtube...watch?v=BQlh5t2k-o0
Fucking puppets is what they are. [2 fries shy of a happy meal, Mar 10 2023]
Do commercial jets usually fly in circles?
https://imgur.com/gallery/k0GLYgD
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, Mar 12 2023]
20 miles away and...
https://imgur.com/gallery/Xgf1rBW
...oh shit here it comes. [2 fries shy of a happy meal, Mar 12 2023]
Insect altitudes
https://www.livesci...an-insects-fly.html
[Voice, Mar 12 2023]
Contrail science
https://www.globe.g...reporting/contrails
You say chemtrail, I say contrail, let’s call the whole thing off [a1, Mar 12 2023]
FlightRader24
https://www.flightr....com/49.23,-118.2/7
Watch the skies from the comfort of your underground bunker! [a1, Mar 13 2023]
Cancer statistics, 2023
https://acsjournals.../10.3322/caac.21763
[a1, Mar 13 2023]
excess-mortality-p-scores-average-baseline
https://ourworldind...country=CAN~USA~GBR
The percentage difference between the reported number of weekly or monthly deaths in 2020–2023 and the average number of deaths in the same period over the years 2015–2019. The reported number might not count all deaths that occurred due to incomplete coverage and delays in reporting.. [a1, Mar 13 2023]
cancer deaths UK 2019, 2020
https://www.ons.gov...ntheukin2019and2020
LC02 Cancer (malignant neoplasms) 147,419 and 147,407 [Loris, Mar 13 2023]
cancer deaths uk 2021
https://www.ons.gov...tatistics2021to2022
LC02 Cancer (malignant neoplasms) 144,746 [Loris, Mar 13 2023]
Bill C-11, as of March 13, 2023
https://www.lifesit...atus-now-uncertain/
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? [a1, Mar 14 2023]
CHEMTRAILS FOR REAL!
https://www.bbc.com...rld-europe-64975766
[a1, Mar 16 2023]
Fuel Dumping
https://en.wikipedi...g/wiki/Fuel_dumping
Gross Weight Adjustment, whatehver... [a1, Mar 16 2023]
Shockingly low altitude fuel dump
https://www.google....ool-trnd/index.html
//Delta Air Lines said the fuel came from Flight 89, which had just taken off from LAX bound for Shanghai, China, when it "experienced an engine issue requiring the aircraft to return quickly to LAX."// 60 people had to be treated for exposure. [21 Quest, Mar 16 2023]
Silver iodide toxicity
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27517140/
//Silver iodide is one of the most common nucleating materials used in cloud seeding.// [21 Quest, Mar 17 2023]
Praying Mantis invasion!
https://learning.ro.../Praying-Mantis.pdf
It's true! [a1, Mar 18 2023]
More ladybug invasions
https://www.reuters...radar-idUSKCN1T72Y8
They even show up on radar! [a1, Mar 18 2023]
Ladybugs in British Columbia
https://birdwatchin...n-british-columbia/
[a1, Mar 18 2023]
Fake Snow Debunking
https://www.snopes....ct-check/snow-burn/
[a1, Mar 19 2023]
A missing link
https://www.mapdeve...FFFF00%22%2C0%5D%5D
Red circle is 100 mile radius from Christina Lake, yellow one is 50 [a1, Mar 19 2023]
CHEM TRAILS ARE REAL!
https://www.bbc.com...nghamshire-65052282
Proof from BBC!!!! [a1, Mar 23 2023]
[link]
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That might warrant some experiments using a VPN. Run the same youtube searches in two different conditions - one where the VPN pretends that you're outside Canada, and one where it doesn't. |
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Can you name the specific legislation that Trudeau has introduced, and have you raised this with any existing civil liberties organisations? |
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//Still think I'm just an anti-vax conspiracy theorist// |
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Honestly, no, it sounds like you're going for the full bingo card. |
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I got all the vaccines and boosters and now I can host three way conversations with Bill Gates and aliens just by rotating a coat hanger above my head (the tuner) and placing my hand on a transistor radio (the speaker/receiver component). |
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//Can you name the specific legislation that Trudeau has introduced// |
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There was no 'new' legislation involved in the now widely reported censorship of some things on Twitter in the US pre-Elon was there .. it seems they pretty much just 'asked politely' and were invited to insert their own people into the company / admin chain .. so why expect any particular legislation in Canada for a similar thing with a similar company? |
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Bill c-11 The on-line streaming act. |
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The little Tater Dick has seen to it that any dissent has been silenced... democratically. |
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//have you raised this with any existing civil liberties organisations?// |
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I know the FBI, and other agencies are coming out and saying the pandemic might have originated from a lab, but I know zoonotic transmission is impossible in a lab. |
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Pangolins and bats get shy around all those lab coats so they can't kiss like they can in a wet market. Put yourself in their place, would you feel romantic with all those test tubes and boiling beakers around? Not likely. Especially if they're studying bat viruses at that lab which was the case in Wuhan. That frankly would be a real turnoff for the pangolins. |
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Follow the science people. |
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(Bun for not liking Trudope and that fascist, 1984 style thought-crime law) [+] |
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Ugh! He's such a douche.
He and his entire party should be tied to chairs while each and every citizen gets to give them one good slap a piece. |
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It's like my biggest fear in life coming full tilt.
The entire population of Earth loses its sanity and I'm the last one left with his faculties intact.
I can think of few things more terrifying. |
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I cleared my browser history and connected through a Canadian IP address, but I got recommendations that show Google still knows who I am. If I were less lazy I would. Oh what the hell, may as well, just a minute... Does anyone know how to specify a Canadian bridge through TOR? nm, got it, just a minute...
Okay, Mr. Fries, Which searches will, if your theory is correct, return different results between Canada and, say, the UK? |
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I realized something about fascism that won't make you feel any better. |
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Fascists don't have to be right, they just have to be part of a hive mind, not ask questions, do what their told and target who they're programmed to target. |
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Free people unfortunately might disagree on stuff, be right sometimes, and wrong other times, but they don't tend to band together. Fascist's number one, and arguably ONLY overarching common attribute is being groupists and agreeing to target anybody outside that group as they're instructed to. |
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Doesn't matter if the goal is making sure all candy bars are extra crunchy and delicious, the goal doesn't matter, it's attaining that goal at the expense of anybody outside that group that draws the fascists together. "Sir, come with us, you're under arrest for the not adhering to the "Candybarcruncydeliciosidy Act". Your candy bars are clearly soft and chewy, to the gulag with you." |
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Then if you're an actual sane human being with a shred of humanity and say "Hey, that's not right!" the fascist mind drones hit you with "Ohh, what've we got here, a crunchy candy bar hater!" |
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The goals can even flip 180 degrees, that's the point. It ain't the goal, it's the control. |
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That's group think, not fascism. |
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My point was that the prerequisite to fascism IS groupthink. Without it there is no fascism. |
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"The fascists had a meeting today, half want gulags for soggy candy bar makers and half want soggy candy bar makers to run the party." |
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Not a lot of fascisming going on with that group. |
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But this makes a great point. We can't even agree on what fascism is? The fascist sure can. It's anybody who deviates from the prescribed groupthink, whatever that might be at any particular time. |
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Let X be a sub-group of group thinkers, such as fascists, or feminists, or communists, or republicans. The phrase //Fascists don't have to be right, they just have to be part of a hive mind// can equally well start with one of the other words and still be right, to the extent that it is right. Therefore narrowing the phrase to one subgroup inappropriately defines that subgroup as the whole group. There are group-thinkers who are not fascists, and so starting the sentence with "group thinkers" is not only the right way to make the claim, but the ONLY right way to make the claim. |
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//Okay, Mr. Fries, Which searches will, if your theory is correct, return different results between Canada and, say, the UK?// |
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It's not the search part, it's that not one single anti-Trudea or pro-Convoy video is now allowed to surface unless searched for specifically, at which point your IP address is probably flagged by the CRTC. |
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A videos popularity no longer factors in. Paying to have your content stay on the front page no longer factors in. |
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Our government has given itself the power to silence anything it disagrees with for any reason at all with it's vaguely worded and contradictory legislation. |
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Our palms are going to be SO bruised. |
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(V) I understood everything you said up to "Let X be a sub-group" |
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I think you might be saying there are group thinkers who are not fascists, which is like saying "Not all people who agree about something want to commit genocide against those who disagree with them." |
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Which, since I'm losing interest, I'll just say "No, anybody who agrees with anybody else about anything is worse than Hitler." It can be "Hey, it's a sunny day today!" "I agree." <--- Nazis. |
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But again, the fact that we can't even agree with what a fascist is, well... kind of makes my point. |
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Which you should take as a compliment if you read between the lines. |
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Okay, here's what the dictionary says, and I disagree with two points. |
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"A fascist is someone who supports or promotes fascism—a system of government led by a dictator who typically rules by forcefully and often violently suppressing opposition and criticism, controlling all industry and commerce, and promoting nationalism and often racism." |
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Ignoring the "well duh" "A fascist is somebody who promotes fascism" waste of words, in my opinion, there are fascist governments that are not led by dictators and the big fascist movement today is decidedly non-nationalistic, it's globalist. |
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In my opinion, which, again to make my point, won't be agreed on by all, which is fine. But if we were fascists, we'd have one narrative that we wouldn't be allowed to differ from. |
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I would like to explore, if I may, the concept of "group thinkers". It comes laden with implication about both (a) who would fall into the set of "group thinkers" and (b) who would not fall into the set of "group thinkers". We need some more rigour about the characteristics that drive set membership. The discussion so far assumes - possibly as a rhetorical shorthand - that "group thinkers" can be identified by categorical markers (e.g. fascists, feminists, communists). If you a member of this group, you are a group thinker. I question the accuracy and the usefulness of this (hopefully rhetorically shorthandrical) approach. |
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[For what follows, I want to take some of the heat out of the "group thinker" categories, so I will shy away from "fascist" or "feminist" and instead use as a placeholder a group with known ideological consistency.] |
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My contention is that being a member of a group which has a superficial ideological consistency is not in and of itself enough to identify member of that group as members of the set of "group thinkers". My preferred example: Presbyterians. Presbyterians are known as a group for their ideological resistance to Marianism, to the Tyranny of Bishops and to fun. From the outside perspective, they may be group thinkers. But they are not, as the existence in tiny, marginal Scotland of each of <tim rogers>the Church of Scotland, the Free Church of Scotland, the United Free Church of Scotland, the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland, the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing), the Associated Presbyterian Church, the Reformed Presbyterian Church of Scotland and the International Presbyterian Church </tim rogers> will attest. This small community - only 30% of Scots consider themselves Protestant, which gives you a max group think group of 1.6m (which is in reality vastly smaller as, for reasons I won't go into right now, "Protestant" in Scotland can also mean (1) not Catholic or (2) hates Celtic Football Club) that somehow manages to contrive eight - eight! - sub groups. Seven reformational schisms within the group set! |
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All of which ecclesiastical politicking is intended to illustrate that starting from the position that ascribing any sort of "group think" to an ideological group is not accurate and even shorthanding with categorical markers runs the risk of giving the impression that the position which uses those markers is itself not well thought out. |
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Returning to "fascism", I have never been a fascist and don't intend to become one (even though I am approaching the age where purchases of the Daily Mail become more likely), but I do think that its probable that even within a group which is characterised by top down, strongman leadership and ideological consistency there is some diversity of thought. Similarly, you only need a passing understanding (which is my level of understanding) of what happened in Russia in the early 20th century to know that communist thought was relatively diverse and communism wasn't consistently pursued or applied within the group of "communists". And the wars and schisms within feminism itself are so well known they are being weaponised against women, from without. I don't know much about American politics but I would expect there is some diversity of thought within the Republican Party? Anyway. |
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Swinging in the other direction, I am generally of the view that there exists in the world not a single individual who is free of some measure of social pressure on their thinking. The notion that the approach of "apply the scientific method and make your *own* conclusions" frees an individual from the risks of groupthink is, in my view, false. While I am generally a fan of the scientific method (for science, particularly) and considering evidence and making an informed decision (hello, to any clients reading this), my concern is that making this your stated approach runs a real risk of being - generally inadvertently - an excuse for and a mask of the biases and group think that underpin (a) the selection process for evidence and (b) the thinking that drives the journey from evidence selection to final conclusion. |
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In conclusion: fascism sucks. |
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In conclusion: [marked-for-deletion] not an idea. |
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Let me clarify my group think / fascist comparison. |
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All fascists are group thinkers, but not all group thinkers are fascists. |
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I *am* a true Scotsman, btw |
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[calum] I thought the point was that there was //no true Scotsman//? |
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Or is it like being a spy, if you say you are one that proves you can't be? |
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// I thought the point was that there was //no true Scotsman//?
Or is it like being a spy, if you say you are one that proves you can't be?// |
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No, it's in reference to a way of weaseling out of a previous statement. |
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Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge."
Person A: "But no /true/ Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge." |
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(copy-pasted from the wikipedia page) |
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I just know that no true Canadian puts maple syrup on a schnitzel, and that's what Trudouche is doing. |
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But no true Scotsman ever weasels out of a previous statement. |
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I was too lazy to actually do the experiment, but I was thinking of "Canada Freedom Convoy" |
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That's a good start, but I was wondering whether they'd taken any action. You might try meeting up with the local chapter, to see if you could interest them in, say, a letter-writing campaign, or see whether they have any other suggestions for action. |
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All of those campaigns are already underway with folks screaming bloody murder. It is ignored. |
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I don't think you guys get just how un-Canada like it is here now.
There is a very large body of evidence piling up that our elections were majorly interfered with by China.
There are even Chinese police stations popping up in our major cities now.
Trudon't was groomed for this job and is beholden only to those who put him there and sees no need for an inquiry into the alegations against him and his party.
He has used bill C-11 which is supposed to rid hate-speech from the net, to instead drop any and all dissent to the bottom of the pile unless specifically searched for. |
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I think they fully realize that we have the ability to de-fund our federal government legally as they have never passed federal income tax into law.
Paying federal income tax is not mandatory here.
We volunteer to pay it to fund WW2 and that arm of government was to be disbanded once that earlier crisis was over.
Instead it morphed into a secondary provincial government for Ontario and Quebec to extort ever increasing taxes from the fringes of Canada and they think that there is dick all we can do about it because we are just a "small fringe minority with, uh, unacceptable views. Misogynists, rapists, and baby-killing, anti-vaxx conspiracy theorists" the lot of us. |
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We refused to hand over our weapons for a very good reason and if that little shit thinks we're going to let him and his sell-outs to hand us over to China... |
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...well then maybe its time to stop funding them.
En masse. |
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Wouldn't that be a fine display of 'real' democracy in action?
When the actual majority all decide to vote with their wallets. |
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No ballot boxes to tamper with that way... and good luck arresting a majority of your citizens for breaking laws which don't exist. |
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For whatever it's worth, lots of Americans stand with our Canadian brothers and sisters up there, including this one. |
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Good to know since we are all technically in the same boat, but being captained by different sell-outs. |
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I cannot talk about the rest of the world since I'm in Israel... |
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So just wanted to mention that Wuhan sounds like a lot of fun. No? I jump for joy every time I hear that city's name. |
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Anyway, I'm glad this post is not about any personal information or health issues. For a minute I was worried. |
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I didn't see the title that way before. Yes I see how it might indicate something other than what I posted.
My apologies and, I am at a loss for words, gladness, I guess, that somebody out there was worried that I might be telling bad personal news. |
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<fist bump>
[2friesland] is okay for now.
<knocks-on-wood> |
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The word Wuhan does indeed sound like a lot of fun, but in the same way that Water-Boarding at Guantanamo bay for the weekend also sounds like fun. |
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The narratives are now jokes. |
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//somebody out there was worried that I might be telling bad personal news.// |
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Yea, I was a bit freaked out by the title as well. We don't need to loose another good person here. |
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Sorry for the misunderstanding, the point was that it ain't happening here. |
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You lost me somewhere at chemtrails. |
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^ You must be lost in Mexico. (Or Canada) |
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//You lost me somewhere at chemtrails.// |
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Well you should check that out then because all of our governments admit to releasing chemicals at altitude to change the albedo of the Earth and have been lying to us about it. |
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Wait til you find out that Sasquatch is real, that Epstein didn't hang himself, that the injections they forced 'almost' everyone on the planet to take are not vaccines but accelerated death in a needle, and that the plandemic, with all of its associated pain and fuckery, was completely intentional and premeditated. |
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...and that this was just the trial run. |
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But when do you start selling nutritional supplements? |
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(3 March SMBC link, panel 4). The guy even looks like you. |
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Well of course... that's what you're being conditioned to think to detract from how correct my track record is becoming. |
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Cis/white/male = Evil. Sanctioned discrimination.
You can smell it across the board.
Blue eyes?!...
Oh shit, I am SO fucked. One of the most un-racist mofo's any of you will ever meet... and they comin ta git me, with the help of my government. I'm not paranoid, I'm prescient. |
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I'm not selling anything, that's how you know I'm not full of shit.
We covered this in chapter one, would some after class time help you to grasp the concept. |
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Where is Canada? What does it do? |
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[2_Fries], I don’t know that you’ve been right about everything (anything) ever, but I’m 100% convinced that the funny pages - formerly printed on cheap paper and dropped on my doorstep every morning, but now available online - are monitoring and reporting on (y)our every move. There’s no other possible explanation for how often topics here are presented as topics there!!! |
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Don’t say I didn’t warn ya! |
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Look towards Greenland. Canada is mostly hidden, but you might be able to spot a little of it on the left. |
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//Where is Canada?// North. //What does it do?// It stays strong and free. Our freedom convoy was the only thing stopping "them" from keeping the entire planet on lock down for the Plandemic narrative.
Still! |
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...and it was only a narrative. A massive con job just as I said. |
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//Don’t say I didn’t warn ya!// |
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That's my line.
How many of you unwillingly gave up your rights?
How many of you gave them up willingly? Gladly even.
How many more tried to force me to give up mine? |
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How many deaths was this Plandemic narrative responsible for? How many strokes? How many auto immune disorders? How much mental illness? |
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Why are our nurses still unemployed?
Why aren't Fauci and Gates being dragged through the streets? |
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How many of us are left who weren't either complicit or complacent with that blatantly obvious narrative you still can't admit I've been correct about since day one? |
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Maybe throwing a few more comics at me will render me incorrect. |
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//Our freedom convoy was the only thing stopping "them" from keeping the entire planet on lock down for the Plandemic narrative.// |
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You're talking nonsense now.
Even if it caused some disruption in Canada, and maybe moved the debate slightly there, the rest of the planet gave exactly zero fucks about a couple of truckers protesting in Canada. |
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And the rest of your questions seem to be based on various random assumptions which I'm not party to. |
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// You're talking nonsense now. // |
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NOW? Loris, there's some twenty years of history here of [2f] asserting his rightness (or nonsense, if you prefer) on a wide variety of topics. |
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// Maybe throwing a few more comics at me will render me incorrect. // |
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I'm not trying to persuade you, I'm just sharing a joke or two (or more). |
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“... the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.” |
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//You're talking nonsense now.
Even if it caused some disruption in Canada, and maybe moved the debate slightly there, the rest of the planet gave exactly zero fucks about a couple of truckers protesting in Canada.// |
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My ass. [link]
Not sure what parts of the planet didn't give a fuck when even countries as far away as Australia followed suit. Lately Brussels has decided that farm equipment works even better than rigs. |
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If we hadn't all decided to collectively shove our feet up some asses, then their little narrative would still be playing out. |
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//I'm not trying to persuade you, I'm just sharing a joke or two (or more).// |
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Tough act to follow, but... [link] |
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Well, okay, so taking your Vice article at face value, Canadian truckers are celebrities amongst anti-vaxxers. It wasn't the first protest, by any means... but maybe it was the one which drew their attention. |
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But... well, I'm not sure that proves much. I mean, according to the same article the copycat protests mostly died on their arses, and led to widespread public condemnation: |
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::Meanwhile, in the UK, plans are being circulated for a “second wave” of convoy protests to descend on the capital on Monday, following an initial protest the previous Monday. That effort was seen as underwhelming – with attendees complaining on Telegram that virtually no one was there – until a group of hardliners surrounded Labour leader Starmer late in the day, angrily spouting misinformation that he had “protected” a notorious paedophile in his previous role as director of public prosecutions.:: |
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Horray for the lynch mob!</sarcasm> |
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I'm getting the impression this is a big deal in conspiracist circles. But is that as you claimed:
"the only thing stopping "them" from keeping the entire planet on lock down for the Plandemic narrative." |
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No. Because it made no difference to policy, except perhaps to make governments give the police more invasive powers to deal with the protesters. |
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I had to figure out a time-line, but it's clear that the lockdowns and almost all restrictions here at least (and I think most places) were done before Canadian truckers were protesting. How do I know that? Well, looking into it, they were protesting about the expiry of an exemption they had, and I'm pretty sure the reason it was allowed to expire was because the situation was no longer critical. |
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So in the UK, the covid lockdowns happened between March 2020 and about March 2021 (restrictions were incrementally lifted over a couple of months).
There were three national lockdowns and various local lockdowns in this period. There were a number of anti-vaxxor protests during this time.
The thing is, after this point, basically everyone on the priority list who wanted to be vaccinated, had been. Vaccines were coming out of scarcity, and it wasn't long before essentially everyone was entitled. They were giving out booster shots to all adults by the end of 2021, and outside some pretty serious event there was no prospect of another lockdown. |
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The Canada trucker convoy was in late Jan 2022, so crediting it with causing any relaxation of restrictions is ... well, a bit of a stretch. |
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No mandate was going to lift here.
Our nurses and doctors, (heroes of the pandemic!) were fired for noncompliance and are still unemployed.
Truckers knew that they were next and the farmers after them. Our government stepped WAY past its boundaries And Trudeau was, (and still is) power-trippin balls, so we did something about it, and now the rest of the world can see how corrupt they are. Laughable even. |
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Stop calling these injections they forced on humanity "vaccines".
Vaccines confer "immunity".
That definition was changed slightly prior to this shit-show allowing world governments to enact the power of mandates given to that previous definition.
Then the drug companies were given exemption from persecution.
...and we all have to become willing guinea pigs who can't question the science because they've fired all of the doctors and scientists not on board with the narrative. |
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"Safe and effective."
"Stops transmission."
"Cloth masks are effective." |
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Such an unbelievable crock of shit. Yet more than like 90% of people swallowed it hook line and sinker.
The 1% of wealth on this planet is gaming to become the .1% and divvying us up accordingly. |
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Castles in the sky for the select few, with the odd boulder tossed down to keep the planet bound serfs in their place. |
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Mark my words.
You 'will' work for food if we don't stop this shit. |
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I have a theory that masks with sub-N95 filtration actually exacerbate the spread of saliva-bourne viruses. The big, gross droplets and globs of phlegm we cough and sneeze up fall harmlessly to the ground within approximately 6 feet. Hence the social distancing, which DOES help. But the Covid virus is so small that it easily becomes airborne, meaning it clings to droplets of saliva smaller than a surgical mask filterss effectively. That, according to my theory, means that if you cough or sneeze in such a mask, many small droplets which WOULD otherwise fall to the ground a short distance from the sneezer are forced through a mesh much like an atomizing diffuser (think of a cologne spritzer) and POOF out into the air in a lingering viral cloud, which other people will walk through for the next 20 minutes or so. |
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Could be.
Was the shit ever airborne? |
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Do we even have science on that yet? ...or should we just keep trusting what was put in its place? |
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Not sure what was put in its place, I just know that 'real' science demands to be questioned. That's Science. |
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Anything claiming to be science which refuses questioning??? |
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You better follow it though. |
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//Our nurses and doctors, (heroes of the pandemic!) were fired for noncompliance and are still unemployed.// |
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And good riddance to them.
Putting your patients at unnecessary risk is not acceptable behaviour for health service professionals. |
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//[..] I just know that 'real' science demands to be questioned. That's Science. [..]// |
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Sure. But you know what else is required for science? |
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Actually looking at the evidence and evaluating it carefully.
If that involves things which are unsavoury to you like maths, then you're not really equipped for it. |
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Perhaps.
You know what I am equipped for though? Recognizing and avoiding con men. |
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Something apparently more than 90% of our population needs to learn. |
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Loris, you know what I cannot abide? The gaslighting. Everything the public needs to know about epidemiology is taught in the K-12 curriculum, usually starting around 6th grade. If you have a highschool diploma or GEG, you're qualified to speak on this topic and offer an informed opinion on the guidance offered by our elected representatives. Despite this, we have been told CONSTANTLY that we, the Public, are not generally qualified to understand such concepts and need scientists to spoon-feed this stuff to us, and anything that doesn't get put in our mouths BY that government spoon is to be distrusted. |
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And yet.... It was that very same government that TAUGHT us all this stuff in the first place! |
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//You know what I am equipped for though? Recognizing and avoiding con men.// |
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A common refrain of conspiracy theorists is "Follow the money."
Then they'll usually accuse scientists of being in it for the money, or similar. Because, you see, they get money to do research, so they've got a vested interest in bigging it up, or something.
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Unfortunately, however, they often fail to apply this to their own idols. And as a1 alluded to earlier, they're usually aiming to make a tidy profit from stuff they sell, advertising or back-handers. Or all three. |
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//Loris, you know what I cannot abide? The gaslighting. Everything the public needs to know about epidemiology is taught in the K-12 curriculum, usually starting around 6th grade. If you have a highschool diploma or GEG, you're qualified to speak on this topic and offer an informed opinion on the guidance offered by our elected representatives. Despite this, we have been told CONSTANTLY that we, the Public, are not generally qualified to understand such concepts and need scientists to spoon-feed this stuff to us, and anything that doesn't get put in our mouths BY that government spoon is to be distrusted.// |
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To be clear, you think I'm gaslighting you?
Or the government/media is? |
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Because the thing is, science is hard, and people do get it wrong. Yes, absolutely, scientists make mistakes too.
But knowing a little doesn't make you an expert, and when the level of analysis is people misunderstanding terminology and claiming conspiracy... well, they're /not/ well equipped to make a useful contribution to the debate. |
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I absolutely agree that people should be able to ask questions and get answers. To be honest, I think I've gone some way out of my way to do that on the halfbakery, to the best of my ability.
But people who are like: ~oh, there were scientists studying coronaviruses in 2018, THEREFORE CONSPIRACY!~
or: ~tens of thousands of people have died since being vaccinated, THEREFORE VACCINES ARE DANGEROUS!~
Well, they're not qualified to make those claims. |
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I guess I should say that in the UK there was a serious attempt to convey explanations and reasoning for measures taken to the public. The government held a daily briefing for a long time (not perfect, but they /tried/), and the BBC would have people explaining things in various formats - questions given to an expert, explanations by people who work in science communication, etc.
If the USA & Canada don't have that... well, that kind of sucks. |
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Observation from someone who doesn't live in Canada: |
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C11 has not been passed into law yet but may be by the time you read this. As of yesterday news outlets report it's still "inching its way" towards passage. [2_fries] is especially prescient though, as it was keeping him from watching some youtube videos last week. |
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I meant the government, not you. |
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What I've been shouted down for saying is things like, allowing an approximately 6 month period (from breakout in Wuhan being reported in the Times to the official declared "start" of the pandemic) allowed the virus to spread to every state in the US. Subsequent halting of interstate travel had the effect (intended or otherwise) of turning every state into an isolated cell culture, basically a giant Petri dish. The more cell cultures, as I'm sure you're aware, the more rapid and diverse mutation occurs, resulting in more strains and variants you get in less time. |
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This is highschool level science, but if I said this a year ago I was shouted down angrily for spreading DANGEROUS MISINFORMATION that I'm not qualified to speak on because I don't have a degree in epidemiology. |
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Also, while not exactly gaslighting, insisting on calling a group of people who are telling us every day that this virus is vastly different than anything they've ever dealt with before "experts" and shaming us for not jumping at the snap of their fingers every time they give us contradictory guidance is, I think, criminally misleading. |
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Stupid spell check... Thanks lol |
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Aw man, you went and fixed it. The joke isn't as funny now. |
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//usually aiming to make a tidy profit from stuff they sell, advertising or back-handers. Or all three.// |
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So... which of those do you think describe me? |
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The thing that was most mind blowing to me was changing the definition of the word vaccine and then calling anyone unwilling to take their non-vaccine an anti-vaxxer.
My God the coercion was insane. |
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Just listen to these ass-hats. [link]
How did so many of you fall for that bullshit? |
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"Don't think you can sit beside vaccinated people and put them at risk." |
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Say that again, Trudope. Say it slowly. |
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//What I've been shouted down for saying is things like, allowing an approximately 6 month period (from breakout in Wuhan being reported in the Times to the official declared "start" of the pandemic) allowed the virus to spread to every state in the US. Subsequent halting of interstate travel had the effect (intended or otherwise) of turning every state into an isolated cell culture, basically a giant Petri dish. The more cell cultures, as I'm sure you're aware, the more rapid and diverse mutation occurs, resulting in more strains and variants you get in less time.// |
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Well, I don't know, I'm not sure this analogy applies.
Sure, if you have a bigger population you'll get more mutations, yes. |
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I agree that it would be better to block travel before spread occurs. Absolutely. But after you've reached the point of the virus being 'everywhere', I think it may still be beneficial to halt travel between population centres. I acknowledge there are costs for doing that, and that may affect the calculus of whether it should be done. |
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But I disagree that splitting the infected populations up would have detrimental effects to us humans, based on the evolution of the virus like you're implying.
I mean - we can divide beneficial (for the virus) mutations into two broad categories (which are ends of a spectrum, but let's go with the distinction for now): |
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1) Mutations which are beneficial in one specific environment. That is, adaptations to that environment, for example doing better in high temperatures, or damp environments, or whatever.
2) Mutations which are generally beneficial to all the environments. These are 'generally fitter' viruses which are for example more infectious, /possibly/ more dangerous (fast-spreading viruses don't 'care' about whether they kill a host, only about how much they can spread. |
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Now if you isolate each state from the others, you reduce spread of the virus overall, which is good - places which are virus-free remain free, and that would keep the risk of a new mutation down.
And places which already have virus at least don't exchange strains. Exchanging the locally-adapted mutations probably isn't that bad, because they're probably worse in the other environment. But it's not good either - this transfer just isn't going to impact the course of the pandemic in any significant way. |
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However, if a generally beneficial (again, for the virus) mutation spreads, that's worse for everybody. The population in every state gets exposed to the fittest variant of the virus.
And to the extent that recombination occurs, it's even worse than that, because you could potentially merge two independently-arising mutations to make one even worse strain. |
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So yes, you may end up with more distinctive strains in different places, but that's not a bad thing. |
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Anyway, the point is, there are a lot of decisions in this sort of thing which have some really nuanced factors, and quickly running the idea past your common sense may not be enough. At the start of this pandemic there was a big knowledge gap, and even at the top, decisions had to be made without the full information. And they had advisors armed with a lot more domain knowledge than you or I. |
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Here in the UK, some people made a lot of noise about the delay in introducing travel restrictions, but I think later research found that actually by the time it was in people's awareness, it was already too late for that to have made a difference - the virus was here already, coming in from Europe rather than direct from China.
In this case, I think they were right more by luck than judgement - but bear in mind I don't have the details of how they made the decision. |
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Conversely, we went into our first lockdown in an incredible rush, after a scientist realised that the modelling didn't include a very important factor, and if infections continued to grow then soon we wouldn't be able to treat all the dangerously ill and a much higher proportion of them would die.
I would say that this was the right thing to do, given the situation. |
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////usually aiming to make a tidy profit from stuff they sell, advertising or back-handers. Or all three.//// |
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//So... which of those do you think describe me?// |
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None and I'm sorry - I wasn't intending to imply that of you. But I wasn't aware you had any sort of leadership position or position of influence in that community? |
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Ah, you were referring to conspiracy theorists as con-men. Yes there certainly are a few, but I'm not either of those things. |
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//Ah, you were referring to conspiracy theorists as con-men.// |
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In general? No. The rank and file, the grassroots? They're genuine, if misguided. The scams wouldn't work otherwise.
The leaders, the influencers though? A lot of them, yeah.
The modern-day anti-vaccine movement was kicked off by Andrew Wakefield, who published fraudulent research about one vaccine in an attempt to promote another. This isn't a secret, but he's still kicking about the antivaxxer ecosystem. |
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What got me was the apparent intent behind their reasons for delaying action, at least here in the USA. I can't speak for Europe on this one, but here our leaders said they didn't want to "needlessly" turn away waves of tourists for the Chinese New Year, and they wanted to be able to point the finger at our president and say "look, he's a racist for wanting to close the border". It was so blatantly weaponized politically here that I didn't, and don't, trust a thing they were telling us about it. |
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Also, consider that there are 26 vaccines in the US. Of those, most Americans only actually get 12: the ones for Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B, DTaP, Hib, Polio, Pneumococcal, Rotavirus, chickenpox, MMR, meningococcal conjugate, HPV, and Shingles. |
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About half the population gets a 13th vaccine, the flu shot. But have we ever had politicians hurl the "anti vaxxer" label at those who skip the flu shot? How about those who do without the cholera vaccine, or anthrax? How about the adenovirus or Japanese encephalitis, or yellow fever? Are all the Americans who choose not to get those vaccines "anti-vaxxers"? |
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//In general? No. The rank and file, the grassroots? They're genuine, if misguided. The scams wouldn't work otherwise.// |
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Oh I'd say the scam du jour worked just fine on everybody 'not' being saddled with the label "Conspiracy theorist" and "Anti-vaxxer".
I am neither one, but I've been labelled both because of this bullshit propaganda. |
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//The leaders, the influencers though? A lot of them, yeah.
The modern-day anti-vaccine movement was kicked off by Andrew Wakefield, who published fraudulent research about one vaccine in an attempt to promote another. This isn't a secret, but he's still kicking about the antivaxxer ecosystem.// |
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You keep referring to these injections that almost everyone was subjected to as Vaccines.
They are not vaccines and only fit the new definition of the narrative we are being subjected to. |
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"Vaccines" confer immunity. |
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Do you know anyone who gained immunity to covid by allowing their bodies to be invaded by these injections? |
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If not. Stop calling them vaccines. |
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There was this 80 or so year old guy, checking out the market we host, wearing what looked like a red MAGA hat.
I raised an eyebrow because we don't see many of those in Canada and when the guy got close enough for me to read it it said; |
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Make Trudeau A Drama Teacher Again |
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And I laughed my ass off. |
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//You keep referring to these injections that almost everyone was subjected to as Vaccines.
They are not vaccines and only fit the new definition of the narrative we are being subjected to.
"Vaccines" confer immunity.
Do you know anyone who gained immunity to covid by allowing their bodies to be invaded by these injections?
If not. Stop calling them vaccines.// |
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I see that you want things to be black and white; all or nothing.
I'm sorry, but not everything in the real world actually works that way. |
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The immune system is complicated, and deals with multiple different kinds of threat. Some of these are traditionally considered once-in-a-lifetime events, because resistance, once gained, lasts very well. Vaccines against some of these diseases were relatively easy, and we've had them for a long time. But some diseases try to evade the immune system in a way which makes them easily 'forgotten'. It shouldn't really be a surprise that vaccines against those don't confer permanent protection to everybody. |
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But even the long-lived vaccines probably aren't 100%. Besides people with immune system issues, there will likely be the odd breakthrough case. It doesn't seem like the sort of thing which makes a big news splash, so for the most part it probably just goes without remark. |
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And of course there are diseases in-between. Some vaccines for things like tetanus need a booster if they are to give good protection. Did you forget those, and do you want to rule them in or out?
If you or someone in your family stood on a rusty nail tomorrow, and hadn't had a tetanus vaccine shot in the last 10 years, would you honestly not take them to get one ASAP? |
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And then there are a number of vaccines which give an overall (but not 100%) level of protection. Like the monkeypox vaccine, apparently. These provide individual benefit, although the protection may only be clear at the population level. |
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But no, please, do go on, keep on giving us your incorrect semantic rant about how vaccines aren't real, and ignore the fact that the real world is getting on with things in spite of you. |
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Okay. Yes I am aware of all of the facts you've stated instead of answering my questions. |
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Am I wrong in my assertion that the word immunity was removed from the definition of the word vaccine? and did this definition change ultimately determine our governments ability to enact mandates? |
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Everything else you've, said while sounding very conciliatory, does not address my Very valid questions by deflecting attention towards the inadequacy of my credentials to even be allowed to ask them. |
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They are two yes or no questions. |
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You just don't want to answer them. |
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Here's my personal anecdote (make of this what you will). I'm a taxi driver. Own my taxi business, actually, but I'm out there every day with my drivers hauling passengers, sometimes well over a dozen a day, in the close unventilated confines of a Mercury Grand Marquis. I didn't wear a mask, nor did about half the folks who rode with me. Didn't skip a single day during the "pandemic", and my unvaccinated ass didn't get Covid once. My mother and stepfather and sister have all gotten the Covid shots, and have all gotten sick with Covid multiple times, SINCE GETTING THE SHOT! |
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Dismiss it as a one off all you like, but the plural of anecdote is data, and I know a lot of people with stories similar to mine. |
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//Am I wrong in my assertion that the word immunity was removed from the definition of the word vaccine? and that this ultimately determined our governments ability to enact mandates.// |
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I think you're talking about the CDC, which isn't really my concern or responsibility, but I looked it up, and according to sites on the internet apparently: |
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::The CDC previously defined vaccination as: “The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.” Now, as per the update in September 2021, it defines it as: “The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce protection to a specific disease.”:: |
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So no, on a technicality. The definition which was changed was "vaccination".
But also, they changed it from immunity to protection. I would say that's basically saying the same thing, so ... no, don't care. |
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Or maybe you're talking about Merriam-Webster, the dictionary which apparently changed its definition of vaccine?
Which again, various places on the internet say have changed the wording to say basically the same thing: |
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::OLD "A preparation of killed microorganisms, living attenuated organisms, or living fully virulent organisms that is administered to produce or artificially increase immunity to a particular disease.":: |
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::NEW "A preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease. :: |
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(the latter is apparently just part of the new definition.) |
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So this change makes the definition more general in a way which includes things used as vaccines now, which weren't an option previously. Which is good, I think.
But also, the old one says increase immunity and the new one says stimulate immune response, which again to me imply basically the same thing.
I don't really care about that to be honest, and the more people go on about it the more I think they're trying to defend a point which doesn't really exist. |
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Oh gosh, the lexicographers are in a shadowy conspiracy to take over the world, so they sneakily changed a definition right when it was important and people were looking!
I mean, right, this is clearly a bit of a stretch? |
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//Everything else you've, said while sounding very conciliatory, does not address my Very valid questions by deflecting attention towards the inadequacy of my credentials to even be allowed to ask them.// |
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Of course you're allowed to ask questions. But it would be nice if you listened to the answers. |
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I might be concilitory, because I'm not /trying/ to be a dick. But I'm also challenging you - I gave you counterexamples to your claims about immunity, which you've previously said has to be life-long and 100% effective to count. And there are many vaccines which aren't either of those. |
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So I'll ask again:
If you or someone in your family stood on a rusty nail tomorrow, and hadn't had a tetanus vaccine shot in the last 10 years, would you honestly not take them to get treatment ASAP? |
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(The tetanus vaccine is about 95% protective, and to maintain protection a booster is recommended every 10 years. Treatment of deep unclean wounds in the UK comprises wound cleaning, administration of antibodies, booster vaccination and possibly antibiotics.) |
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//They are two yes or no questions.
[...]
You just don't want to answer them.// |
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For the record, this was added/edited in while I was typing up my reply above. |
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//the plural of anecdote is data// |
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No it isn't. There are many people with a story about how their Granddad smoked all his life and died in their 90's of a disease which wasn't smoking related.
Random factors are particularly deceptive like that. That's why we have to do statistics. Noone does that for fun. |
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And yet despite the 140,000+ lung cancer deaths each year in the US, the government has never seen fit to BAN cigarettes, to tell private business owners that they must fire any smokers who refuse to quit. But they did that with this new vaccine, for the first time in our nation's history. |
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I am not a black-or-white guy any more than I am an anti-vaxxer or a conspiracy theorist, but thanks for the new label. |
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Well, that answered one of my questions, in that you admitted that the word immunity was indeed removed from the definition of vaccine by the CDC just prior to this narrative... and that you don't care about it because... etymology... |
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...so, did this definition change give world governments the right to enact mandates given to a specific and alternate definition?.. and then Stockholm syndrome their citizens? |
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We both already know the answer. |
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I just want to make sure everybody else here does too. |
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You can just deflect again, but I'm telling you right now that none of us here will again be told that majority vote equals right.
Or that station in life determines ability to question.
Or that our governments have our best interests at heart. |
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No, we 'don't' have to do what our elected representational sell-outs tell us to, and it is totally 'not' undemocratic for the actual majority to prove it by ignoring their ass kissing faces when told to do so. |
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//the government has never seen fit to BAN cigarettes,// |
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I can suggest two reasons for that difference. One is that smoking is not infectious, so there's a stronger case for making it a personal choice. The other is, there's a long- established tobacco lobby whose main job is to prevent such a ban from happening, isn't there? |
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The beginning of political buy outs in North America.
Big Bucks, no whammies. |
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For a while there doctors were paid to endorse which brand pregnant mothers should be smoking. |
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I'm not paranoid for no good reason. When I was growing up the cigarette smoke in the bingo halls would be a solid layer about two feet above table height.
I've ripped down apartment buildings with ship lath walls and pure asbestos insulation and my t-shirt as a mask.
My multiple, (welfare kid) dental fillings were all mercury filled amalgam.
I've crawled city centre duct works with caustic de-greaser eating my nerve endings, and spent weeks using old school contact cement to install thousands of feet of cove base. |
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All government sanctioned. |
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Now, I am supposed to trust them? Because they know what's best for me?
Really? |
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This time?
Naw. I'm thinking they had their shots at gaining my trust. |
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They are not worthy of it. |
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Is your government worthy of yours? |
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Pertinax, have you looked at the numbers of dollars being generated by this Covid vaccine? See, there's a few other differences between this one and past vaccines. The other vaccines had no profit motive. Their patents (for polio and smallpox anyway) were made public so no company could have a monopoly on them and charge exorbitant prices for them. These Covid vaccines? Just the opposite. BioNTech and Pfizer are being sued by Moderna for patent infringement for DARING to make cheaper versions to provide to the public. This lawsuit is being ALLOWED to go forward. This is UNPRECEDENTED in the vaccine industry. Coupled with their legal immunity from liability if nasty side effects (including cancer) rear their ugly heads down the road in a few years' time (also something that didn't exist for the makers of the polio and smallpox vaccines, *as I recall*), and you don't think there's some powerful lobbying going on here? |
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//For a while there doctors were paid to endorse which brand pregnant mothers should be smoking.// |
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Much more recently, doctors were paid to get Americans addicted to opioids. Riddle me this: how can a pharmaceutical company be found guilty of conspiracy to defraud the government, but the actual doctors taking the bribes and filling out the bogus prescriptions to bilk Medicaid didn't get found guilty of being co-conspirators? |
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//I am not a black-or-white guy any more than I am an anti-vaxxer or a conspiracy theorist, but thanks for the new label.// |
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Dude look at the idea you posted here. When you talk about Mexico having "chem-trails", what do you think people are going to infer? |
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//Well, that answered one of my questions, in that you admitted that the word immunity was indeed removed from the definition of vaccine by the CDC just prior to this narrative... and that you don't care about it because... etymology...// |
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It's not my place to 'admit' anything about the CDC, but I believe we talked about it before, and I said basically the same thing there.
The CDC is an American organisation, not a global one. It's /really/ not my problem.
However, to be clear - I've heard that the CDC, along with other american health agencies made some pretty significant mistakes. But I don't think this definition change is a problem like you're making out.
The fact that you're going on about this and ignoring the real issues is really odd. If you're /not/ a conspiracy theorist, why do you persist in repeating their talking points? |
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//...so, did this definition change give world governments the right to enact mandates given to a specific and alternate definition?.. and then Stockholm syndrome their citizens?
We both already know the answer.// |
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Yeah. It's a resounding No!
Changing that definition had no affect on anything important and is an irrelevance. |
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Also, what do you mean by "world governments"? |
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Given all of the nastiness you've been spouting in my general direction, I've decided to allow myself a brief tit-for-tat matching moment of point-scoring snark:
I think your silence about my questions on previous vaccines speaks volumes. |
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//And yet despite the 140,000+ lung cancer deaths each year in the US, the government has never seen fit to BAN cigarettes, to tell private business owners that they must fire any smokers who refuse to quit. But they did that with this new vaccine, for the first time in our nation's history.// |
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In the UK at least, we /do/ have pretty strong regulations about smoking in public where it may harm others. Yes this affects private businesses - pubs for example.
And also regulation against the other horrors you mention 2 fries. Yes it had to be fought for tooth and nail against vested interests with lobby groups, but a key part of achieving that was doing the damn statistics. The smoking thing in particular was I think quite hard. |
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As an aside, I might tell you about the experience of being a scientist and trying to show something rigorously, but that's for another post. |
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// When you talk about Mexico having "chem-trails", what do you think people are going to infer?// |
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First of all I would like people to read what I actually write.
I said Mexico has no chemtrails.
The air is too dry for a contrail of any length to form and therefore releasing chemicals which mimic contrails would be far too obvious and so there are no chemtrails in Mexico.
Canada on the other hand has chemtrails up the wazzoo. In fact I posted videos I filmed myself of our sky here being covered in them and lasting long enough to settle to the ground. |
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That you've all been conned into labelling me a conspiracy theorist for calling attention to it is not 'my' problem. |
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//The fact that you're going on about this and ignoring the real issues is really odd. If you're /not/ a conspiracy theorist, why do you persist in repeating their talking points?// |
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I'm the one not ignoring the real issues. The people that ignored these issues, more than 90% of the population, are all walking around with experimental non-vaccines in their bloodstreams. |
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The points are my own. If they happen to overlap with those of other people also being labelled conspiracy theorists then maybe they are on to something. |
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...and maybe it's time for the 90% to do some listening rather than name calling. |
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//Yeah. It's a resounding No!
Changing that definition had no affect on anything important and is an irrelevance.// |
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If these injections hadn't been given the term vaccine then there could have been no "Vaccine Mandates".
There could have been no exemption from persecution for 'vaccine' manufacturers.
No segregation of the "unvaccinated."
No sanctioned prejudice against anti-vaxxers.
and no people voluntarily dying of stroke from being coerced into allowing experimental Non-Vaccines into their bodies. |
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//I think your silence about my questions on previous vaccines speaks volumes.// |
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Previous vaccines didn't legally but falsely single me out as a villain for three years and your questions about them merely distracted from my own. |
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//lasting long enough to settle to the ground//
Step 1. Set up a video camera to record chemtrail. Keep the whole thing in one long shot with no cuts.
Step 2. Wait for the dust to settle.
Step 3. Gather dust and send it to whoever wants to analyze it.
Step 4. ????
Step 5. Profit! |
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//First of all I would like people to read what I actually write.
I said Mexico has no chemtrails.// |
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Yeah, I did!
You /actually/ said "Mexico has to chem-trails. It would be far too obvious in a region which can not form con-trails."
It still says that, and I parsed it to have the opposite meaning to what you apparently intended. |
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Notwithstanding that, you're talking about chemtrails as if they're a thing. |
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You say you've seen and posted videos of them settling to the ground - this is not something I was aware of.
I would be interested to see the footage and will restrain myself from speculating until I've seen it. |
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//and your questions about them merely distracted from my own.// |
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== "Only /I/ am entitled to ask questions, but I'll ignore your answers if they're not what I want." |
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// Mexico has no chemtrails. … Canada has chemtrails // |
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Are you saying different atmospheric characteristics and volume of commercial air traffic in different parts of the world are proof of … something? Or just that these differences are exploited by … someone … for some reason? |
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What purpose are chemtrails used for and who benefits from them? And where they can’t be used or explained away, what do “they” use in their place? |
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And the everlasting, never answered question - who are “they” ? |
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//In the UK at least, we /do/ have pretty strong regulations about smoking in public where it may harm others. Yes this affects private businesses - pubs for example.// |
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Here in the US we have no such regulations, not at the federal level. Some states allow smoking in pubs and other workplaces, some don't. They leave it up to the states to regulate, which is historically how vaccine mandates worked as well. |
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//Yeah, I did!
You /actually/ said "Mexico has to chem-trails.// |
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Fuck! You're right. It didn't get flagged as a misspell so I didn't see the typo. It was meant to read no chemtrails.
My apologies. |
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//Notwithstanding that, you're talking about chemtrails as if they're a thing.// |
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They are a thing. An admitted thing. I'll look for the video. I posted it here. |
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//"Only /I/ am entitled to ask questions, but I'll ignore your answers if they're not what I want."// |
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Not at all. I just won't allow my questions to be glossed over if I feel they bear weight. I realize that is not what you were trying to do.
I am just already way more defensive than most people from my upbringing, and being denied my rights for the last few years for daring to listen to my intuition rather than the "experts I am not qualified to question" has amped that up something fierce. |
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//Are you saying different atmospheric characteristics and volume of commercial air traffic in different parts of the world are proof of … something? Or just that these differences are exploited by … someone … for some reason?// |
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Yes. There were an awful lot of jets flying over the resort I was at in Cancun. I could hear them but had a bitch of a time seeing them given that they were farther ahead in their flight than where the sound was coming from.
In Canada Contrails will sometimes follow behind a commercial jet for a few inches given perspective.
Here where I live, the nearest airport able to launch commercial jets is 300 miles away and in an entirely other country. |
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Here we get "Contrails" which widen and drift and last for several hours. |
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//What purpose are chemtrails used for and who benefits from them?// |
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We are being told that it is to change the albedo of the planet and counteract climate change. (don't get me started down that rabbit hole until we've plumbed this one please) |
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//And where they can’t be used or explained away, what do “they” use in their place?// |
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Why would anything need to be used in their place? It's one biosphere. Shit travels. |
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//And the everlasting, never answered question - who are “they” ?// |
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Epstein didn't hang himself. |
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Okay I found both Chemtrail videos. I started the first video 20 km up the road, and the second video is from ten minutes later when I got home. |
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I don't have video of it when it landed, you'll just have to believe me when I say this place filled with fog and I couldn't trust my own body to climb a ladder for four days or so after.
Whole town full of people not feeling so good afterwards. We all saw the same shit. |
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...but I'm a conspiracy theorist because I bother to document and inform truth? |
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I know that correlation does not indicate causation... but the insects here in the last two years since are different now than anybody has seen in their lifetimes living here. |
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Fling your collective shit at will. |
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The bugs? Um grasshoppers so thick they were crunching underfoot.
We had preying mantis here last year. Swear to God. Nobody here has ever seen that shit before. At least two months or more of no see ums so thick that nobody could eat outside even with screens.
A stink bug infestation. |
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Lots more, I don't know I'm not an entomologist |
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I just know that we now have many bugs here we didn't ever seem to have before. |
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Oh gosh, I'm just annoing all by myself now. |
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Yes [Voice] that [link] explains everything. |
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What's your take on the Chem-Trails we are subjected to here in the videos I showed you? Do you think I faked them? |
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I was SO tempted to type Chem-Trials, but I withheld...
...and it was SO hard to do that you have no idea. |
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Don't stop on my account buddy. |
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As Naomi Klein mentions in "The Shock Doctrine", the CIA mainly funded direct psyops experiments on Canadians, which were run by professors at McGill University. |
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//Do commercial jets usually fly in circles?/ |
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Near busy airports, yes, they do this a lot. I believe it's known as "stacking" (because each waiting aircraft circles at a different altitude). ATC instructs them to do this until it's their turn to land. |
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//we now have many bugs here we didn't ever seem to have before// |
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That is a predicted effect of a warming climate. |
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//Okay I found both Chemtrail videos. I started the first video 20 km up the road, and the second video is from ten minutes later when I got home. |
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I don't have video of it when it landed, you'll just have to believe me when I say this place filled with fog and I couldn't trust my own body to climb a ladder for four days or so after.
Whole town full of people not feeling so good afterwards. We all saw the same shit.// |
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Okay, so I've watched the two short videos, and -while I agree it's odd to see curved contrails - I'm not convinced that means much. Not an aviation expert, but I'd bet there's reasons for planes to fly curved paths.
To me, 'flying in circles' means multiple loops over approximately the same path, and I didn't see that. If I interpreted the first one correctly, it looks like one plane flying a meandering path with several back-and-forths over the valley. I think that has innocuous explanations, for example to do some sort of survey. Around here we occasionally get small planes flying around for a day, then someone comes round and tries to sell everyone aerial photos of their houses.
And as we know, contrails (i.e. water vapour induced by a plane's passage) /are/ a real thing. |
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I'm not disputing that there was fog afterwards, or some sickness around afterwards, but it's not /necessarily/ related. |
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So there are basically two classes of explanation.
1) A plane spread some stuff in the air directly above your area, causing a thick fog, and this made people sick for a few days.
2) A plane flew around your area for some reason. It got foggy later by chance, (or at least for some unrelated reason like a ground-based release of material). And there was some sickness in the area either because of the fog, or for unrelated reasons. |
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Oh, and similarly the changes to the ecosystem might be related, or not. |
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And... well, class one might be psychologically attractive, but I think you need to at least consider class two. |
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Because... well, over the last few years there have been several ground-based events affecting the local atmosphere near me. A fire at a recycling plant a few miles away put up a big column of black smoke. I think one made the national news, briefly.
A few years ago a company was remediating some land (old factory site, had been a derelict wasteland for decades, which sometimes smoked), and at one point the whole neighbourhood stank for a few days, while they dug it up and sprayed stuff around.
And in the time-period you're talking about, it's entirely possible people were getting covid. Most people, it just makes them feel bad for a few days. |
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For [2f] and anyone else who might be interested, see “Contrail science.” |
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Being from a government site it insists on referring to them as “contrails.” Doesn’t mention changing insect migration patterns, poisoning anyone, or changing the weather - though there is a passing reference to the last possibility. |
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BUT… even without confessing to nefarious schemes, the full presentation has good explanations of how they are formed, including loops and patterns. All good stuff to know whether you think it’s just airplane exhaust or something worse. |
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Click through each section in the left-sidebar to get all the words, pictures, charts, and youtube videos. |
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Chem trails that caused fog? That sounds like a cloud seeding mishap to me. Surely nobody disputes the reality of cloud seeding? |
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It wasn’t foggy here last night but it is this morning. Supposed to burn off later today, but it might rain too. |
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WHAT COULD POSSIBLY EXPLAIN THAT?!?! |
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Surely nobody disputes the reality of weather? |
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None of you were here. You don't make to my age without knowing what contrails are.
The shit in those videos wasn't contrails.They weren't caused by a single jet flying in circles.
There is no major airport close to here.
Contrails do not spread out across an entire sky.
Contrails do not fall to Earth from 30,000 ft. and fog an entire valley. |
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Pull your heads out of your asses. |
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Chill brah. You're way too defensive. I, for one, haven't even addressed the claim. |
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I'm just defensive in general. |
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I am chill.
I never set out to attack anyone. Ever.
But when I feel backed into a corner, as I told [MB], I defend myself like a rabid badger... and not a UK badger, not some cartoon looking zebra of a badger hunted for sport, but like a fucking honey Badger. A take-out-a-cobra, after being bitten, fuck-up-a-grizzly-bear and walk away type badger.
Last ape allowed on the arc and there are only three of us there type badger.
That's been my life. I can't change those spots. They're what has kept me breathing.
I am always underestimated and that's my groove. That's where I live. I'm a little guy in a big guys world and was taught by them instead of a dad. |
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Touch me or touch my life and I will climb you like a tree and smash you in the face so many times before you can even get your hands up that if you can't pull me off of you, somebody else will have to and then they have to deal with me as well... and I giggle while doing it when somebody forces me to go there. |
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I do my best not to go there. |
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And, that attitude, which will probably get me killed someday is all I know... but at 54 I'm still as buff as I was in my 20's, maybe even more buff, and I'll go out swinging one way or another. |
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"I" didn't make me this way.
It is a reaction to the insanity I was raised within. |
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So when I see the majority of people around me capitulating to,... well 'insanity' is all I can think to call it, given that I can see how society is being taught by the bought media into Stockholm-ing everybody into conformity to fill agendas I can see which they can not. |
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...all I can think is;
not on my fucking watch. |
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That is not directed at anyone personally. |
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Just at humanity at large. |
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I'm a good guy.
I'm the guy that tosses himself over a toddler to save them from a falling steel and glass door.
The guy your three year old daughter smiles and waves to on the train, because kids know.
They haven't been trained to shut off their intuition yet, and I guarantee all of you that every three year old on the planet instinctively knows who will protect them just through eye contact far more accurately than their parents are able to discern. |
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It's how we are hard-wired form birth. |
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The other side of that coin though is; |
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If nobody fucks with my life.
Well then I won't have to fuck back. |
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Fuck with my life, and... |
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I've tried to not let that spill onto here. I like you people. You're all smart, articulate, learned, and for the most part friendly.
Things I admire and wish I was more like.
Thing is though, I am self taught, and some of the things I've learned to do don't seem to exist in your books. |
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I've mentioned this here before, but I don't think it was believed.
It's just a thing I noticed and has yet to be proven wrong.
People that fuck with me get instant karma. I don't deserve their shit and the universe seems to agree with me.
I go out of my way in order to not fuck over others and those who fuck with me get, as far as I can tell, ten fold fuckery back. |
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Totally not my doing. Not intentionally anyway.
...but I don't really mind so much, y'know? I might be able to turn that off... but I don't. Why should I?
Anybody fucking with me has it coming because I sure as shit didn't fuck with them. |
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How much do you think this globalist agenda vaccine mandate/energy crisis shit is fucking with my life? |
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My attitude is; bring it bitches. Let's see how you like taking what you're dishing out. |
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Y'all got some learning to do. |
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...how 'bout them chemtrails eh? Ain't they some shit? |
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// globalist agenda vaccine mandate // |
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Euronews, albeit an exceptionally dodgy news source, has just reported that excess deaths in Europe, as Covid deaths seem to be winding down, have been hitting the vaccinated countries hardest. |
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In December 2022, Germany's excess deaths were 39% higher, wheareas excess deaths in Romania actually dropped by a negative percentage. |
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Someone had to get rid of all those old people. |
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I had a great hope that all the behavioral requirements of the pandemic would kill off a nice handful of the bad bugs. I think that didn't happen at all. Instead a load of people became less resistant (to all sorts of things) and then later on became more affected (to all sorts of things). It was a reminded of the danger of our current viral load. |
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//then later on became more affected (to all sorts of things)// |
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I think you mean **by** all sorts of things in that second line of yours there. |
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//It was a reminded of the danger of our current viral load// |
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Personally I think it was .. with the evidence of the non-covid related excess deaths ... rather than a reminder of that, a reminder of the dangers of bad scientists (it wasn't the 'science' as such that was bad, it was the "experts" interpretation and use of of it) being allowed too much credence, influence and power over policy decisions .. a great many of these "experts" who got it all so very wrong appear to reside at the WHO, though we certainly have our own share of them in the UK occupying positions of influence in SAGE. |
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// how 'bout them chemtrails eh? // |
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Dunno man. Despite your excellent cinematography all I see are some contrails and clouds. Neither clip is long enough or steady enough to see origin or spread. |
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As for "no major airports nearby?" Sure, Trail and Castlegar don't count - but for a plane at 30,000 it's easy to spot contrails up to 100 miles away. And you’re barely about 100 miles north of Spokane*. Watch FlightRader24 (link) for a while to see how many planes cross within that distance. |
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Edit to add - while I was typing that, I had FlightRadar open in another window and watched two Boeing 737's fly within 20 miles of your place, at 350000 ft and 37000 ft. One routed Vancouver-Winnepeg, the other Abbotsburg-Toronto. |
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* Also Fairchild AFB. Ask [21_Quest] if his folks are fugging with you. |
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I'll have to get back to you on that. |
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Oh c'mon man, you can do better than that. Either 'fess up or go full Glomar on him: "We can neither confirm nor deny..." |
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I'm afraid I'll just have to get back to you on that. |
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[mylodon]'s post is insightful. If Covid deaths killed off old people and vaccines prevented this, one would expect more old, vaccinated people to be dying now than where co-morbidity did them in a year or two ago. |
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I suspect that if one were to construct a COD Abacus, with a row of beads for every cause of death for 2019, and then a new one for 2021, you could make a very scary-looking bead row for the new COD (Covid) by simply plucking a few beads from each of the existing rows. Visually, it would APPEAR that there were a lot more deaths that year, even though the total bead count remains exactly the same (or close to it). |
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It's funny, I think, in a gallows humor sort of way, that the government seems to have realized the numbers aren't going to support their claims about Covid, because they're hiding the numbers for the pandemic years. Look it up, you can't find a number for cancer deaths in 2020, 2021, or 2022. Those figures are still unreported. But you can find them for 2019, easy. |
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// Look it up, you can't find a number for cancer deaths in 2020, 2021, or 2022 // |
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Did you know the word gullible isn't in the dictionary? Look it up. |
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A1, look at those figures again. They aren't reported deaths, they're projections. Estimates of what WILL happen. |
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//In 2020, 1,806,590 new cancer cases and 606,520 cancer deaths are projected to occur in the United States// |
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Why don't they have the number? My guess is they're still trying to figure out how many beads they need to move around on the abacus to keep their story consistent. |
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"The most recent year for which incidence and mortality data are available lags 2 to 4 years behind the current year because of the time required for data collection, compilation, quality control, and dissemination." (Cancer Statistics, link) |
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EDIT: I swapped out the 2022 link for a 2023 link, which mentions a 2-3 year lag instead. Still, any numbers 2020 onward will be projections. |
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Given what we know about Covid and premorbidity, given how many patients on their death bed were pushed over the edge when Covid came a-knocking, I'm betting the deaths reported due to cancer are going to be a LOT lower than previous years. On the order of 200-300k lower, because that's how many WOULD have died of cancer but got bumped off by Covid instead. I'd say the same for flu, chronic respiratory illness, and diabetes. You look at the number of workplace deaths every year, and I bet those are going to be a lot lower than average too, as well as traffic deaths and a slew of other CODs. You add up all the reductions in THOSE causes of death during the pandemic years, plus cancer, and I bet you're gonna get pretty darn close to what they said were Covid deaths for those years. |
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Really? How much? By your estimate there wouldn't be ANY noticeable bumps in "all-causes" mortality (link). |
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I'm gonna be REALLY curious to see what numbers they feed us for 2020 next year. Part of the reason I'm so skeptical of the government numbers is the way their mouthpieces at CNN covered the "mass graves" at Hart Island in 2020. Remember the coverage showing "truck loads" of bodies being dumped there? Well what they conveniently failed to report, that only New Yorkers would know and even then not all of them, is that New York dumps truckloads of bodies on Hart Island EVERY YEAR. That's where they've ALWAYS disposed of unclaimed bodies at the morgue, so it's usually a bunch of dead transients. |
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Well, in 2020 they changed the rules a bit. They cut the time families are given to claim the bodies in half, which effectively doubled the amount of bodies that were declared unclaimed, which vastly increased the amount that went to the mass graves at Hart Island. Many of those bodies would have, SHOULD HAVE, been given proper burials in actual cemeteries or even cremated. But the government wanted to scare us into compliance, and that's how they did it. |
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//It's funny, I think, in a gallows humor sort of way, that the government seems to have realized the numbers aren't going to support their claims about Covid, because they're hiding the numbers for the pandemic years. Look it up, you can't find a number for cancer deaths in 2020, 2021, or 2022. Those figures are still unreported. But you can find them for 2019, easy.// |
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I can't speak for the USA, but this sort of data is readily available online for the UK, you just have to look (2 links. 2022 isn't included in these and may not be available yet, but give them time and I bet it will show up.)
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And regarding covid, the data is also available. There are various different measures and you need to understand how and why they're generated, though. |
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Back when Bigsleep was around they asked me if I thought covid was the leading cause of death.
And I said it wasn't at the that time, but it had been previously ... and they were all disparaging like I was being dumb. |
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So I went and looked it up, and at the first peak the mortality rate for the country was around double that expected for the time of year, for several weeks.
And maybe you could say that they were making the figures up, but honestly I doubt it. I mean, it wasn't in their interest for the numbers to be high, and at the time there were emails regularly going round my department about individuals related to the department (retirees, mostly) dying. |
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// I had FlightRadar open in another window and watched two Boeing 737's fly within 20 miles of your place, at 350000 ft and 37000 ft. One routed Vancouver-Winnepeg, the other Abbotsburg-Toronto.// |
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Were they pulling doughnuts over Grand Forks? |
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Not this morning. But planes do that a lot. Commercial planes stack while waiting for their approach. Research and military aircraft frequently "orbit" - literally, fly in circles over an area - for whatever their mission profile is*. |
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Next time you see one doing something funky, get on to FlightRadar24 and you can probably spot it. |
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* both US and CAN air traffic controllers have standing orders to tell all planes to spray something extra into their exhaust and perform funny maneuvers whenever they know you're watching. |
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You're planely joshing, and it's exhausting. |
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Hey, just to give some credit to the idea that [2_Fries] saw something out of the ordinary in March 2021, US and Canadian air forces did conduct an arctic defense exercise* around that time. But those started shortly after his videos. Still, I wonder if any of the trails he saw were planes being sent ahead to support those missions. |
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* Edit to add: AMALGAM DART - they do it every year. |
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More likely a classified and related exercise, such as putting experimental aircraft through the same maneuvers to gather baseline performance data. |
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No secret - AMALGAM DART is widely publicized every year to let people know why they're seeing increased military activity. |
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And on further reading - Fairchild AFB (as I mentioned before, just 100 miles south of [2f]) does participate. |
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As for other, possibly classified flight paths... the government will neither confirm nor deny... |
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// Did you know the word gullible isn't in the dictionary? Look it up//
It's funny because anyone actually looking it up is being the opposite of gullible. |
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// Did you know the word gullible isn't in the dictionary? Look it up// |
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I'd like to try a twist on that. Say: "Did you know the word gullable isn't in the dictionary? Look it up." |
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// I'm the last one left with his faculties intact |
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I can assure you this is something you'll never need to be concerned about. |
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Also it's very difficult to take people seriously who say things like "Trudon't". |
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Nothing starts with an N and ends with a G. |
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Hey that Flightradar24 site is pretty cool. Does it show circling jets the day of those videos, or would the flights not be posted if they were military exercises? |
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Either way, I looked it up and contrails, while being able to spread out for quite some distance and persist for hours, (funny how they never did that when I was growing up living next to the Edmonton International Airport), never fall to Earth. |
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I'm telling you that these did just that. |
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If contrails can't do that, then what else should I consider these to be besides heavier than air chemicals? |
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Water vapour does not behave that way, so should I delude myself into believing that I, and all of these other townsfolk didn't see what we actually saw? |
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That nobody here was nauseous and lightheaded for days afterwards? |
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Oh yeah, and we had massive clusters of lady bugs hanging from the ceilings which nobody here has ever seen before as well. |
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//I can assure you this is something you'll never need to be concerned about.// |
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<knocks-on-wood>
I'd say that the actions of my fellow humans over the last few years makes me seriously doubt that statement. |
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//Also it's very difficult to take people seriously who say things like "Trudon't".// |
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Well that's because somehow a drama teacher has the credentials to lead our country just because of his daddy's last name.
I'd say "fathers last name" but that needs it's own Maury Povich episode. |
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{picks up mike, carefully adds it to the collection) |
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What did mike ever do to you?... and what's up with his pronoun? |
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Well, it all started one night, twenty years ago now. The gum leaf band were just tuning up when the screen doors swung open. |
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Back to you Phil.
<hands mic back to mc> |
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// [mylodon]'s post is insightful. // |
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If this were true, highly vaccinated countries such as Germany would still record excess deaths (from viral load, from licking toads, from goading proles) as Covid deaths, or at the very least, being Germany, as attempted escapes from camp. |
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// Does (Flightrader24) show circling jets the day of those videos, or would the flights not be posted if they were military exercises? // |
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I don’t know of any site like FR24 showing historical tracking from that long ago. Looking at that question more generally, “circling jets” & military exercises are two separate things, but the groups might overlap. Some military flight paths will be shown on FR24 and similar websites, but others won’t. |
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I do think it’s possible that you could sometimes see trails of planes flying to/from Fairchild AFB though. Not saying that’s what’s in your video, only that it’s a possibility. Contrails can be visible from a long way off, and there’s no way to tell from your pictures how far away those trails were. |
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“To be absolutely certain about something, one must know everything or nothing about it.”
—Henry Kissinger |
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And circling back to the OTHER thing - Bill C11 *still* isn't law. Even though [2f] thought the proposed law was already in effect and blocking his youtube enjoyment a couple weeks ago. |
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From the link: "Normally, once the Senate passes a bill it will be given Royal Assent and become law. However, procedure dictates that for a bill to become law the text which is passed by both the Senate and House of Commons must be exactly the same. As the Senate made multiple amendments to Bill C-11, it must get reapproved from the House of Commons before being enshrined." |
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//Bill C11 *still* isn't law. Even though [2f] thought the proposed law was already in effect and blocking his youtube// |
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You do realize that just means that certain videos had been blocked here in Canada before the bill has even gone through yet, don't you? |
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That all those particular videos were either about Trudeau or the Freedom Convoy I'm sure is in no way indicative of what's coming if C11 is pushed through. |
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Somebody else must have clued in too and raised hell, because it only lasted for part of one day. |
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And I just want you to knooooow... I found a reason for me, to think they are out to get me. A reason to wear foil hats.... and the reason is that! |
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I suppose it's possible someone at youtube threw a switch prematurely in anticipation of a law that's been in debate, not passed, for over a year. Or even under pressure from the government to block selected clips. I don't know how likely that is though. |
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YouTube and other services routinely block (and sometimes restore) content for a wide variety reasons - reported misinformation, copyright issues, hate speech, etc - even government complaints). Why don't you make a list of the specific vids and ask them what happened? |
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And skip the usual excuse about how you don't have time. If you spent 1/10 the time looking things up as you do on making accusations and excuses, you'd be a SUPER-SUPER-GENIUS by now. Instead of just a first order, lower case genius. |
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//I suppose it's possible someone at youtube threw a switch prematurely in anticipation of a law that's been in debate, not passed, for over a year. Or even under pressure from the government to block selected clips. I don't know how likely that is though. |
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YouTube and other services routinely block (and sometimes restore) content for a wide variety reasons - reported misinformation, copyright issues, hate speech, etc - even government complaints). Why don't you make a list of the specific vids and ask them what happened?// |
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Or it could have been that 'Google blocking News in Canada' thing I found (2nd link from top).
Timeline looks about right for it.
I'm not clear if that's Bill C-11 or something distinct but similar. The article I found suggests that Google blocked news content from some Canadians to indicate their response if they were obligated to pay Canadian news organisations for propagating their content. (update - perhaps it's Bill C-18) |
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// (maybe Google's) response if they were obligated to pay Canadian news organisations for propagating their content. // |
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Yes, I saw your note on that. And while it's not certain, that does make more sense than government censorship. A completely different debate to have too, if content aggregators should be required to pay content producers ... |
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I just calls'em like I see's'em. |
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That doesn't mean I'll never be wrong about how I'm seeing things, just that I don't bullshit about what I see even when it sounds that way. |
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I don't know any better words to describe an under educated individual who has images of inventions and physics principles, which nobody else seems to have thought of, pop into their heads fully formed, which also work when built, who isn't a drooling idiot in a sanitarium. |
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//And skip the usual excuse about how you don't have time. If you spent 1/10 the time looking things up as you do on making accusations and excuses// |
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I don't make excuses. I 'own' my shit.
Spend three decades working double time doing manual labour through broken bones and torn ligaments, raising kids, starting businesses, just to jump back into the fire and sign up for another potential decade... |
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...and we'll talk about how much time you had to pursue the things you should have been taught before being tossed out on your prepubescent ass alone and forced to figure out everything else instead. |
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Otherwise, back the fuck up spanky. |
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“There you go again…”
—Ronald Reagan, Oct 28 1980
LMAO |
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OMG that would have had so many emoticons in it if it could have... |
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I guess what I mean is; would 'you' like to be forced to learn the things I know which you lack knowledge of in order to even be taken seriously by others like me? |
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Would you really want to go there? |
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// to even be taken seriously by others like me? // |
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Why would I want that? I don’t take *you* seriously. |
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True. The voices in my head keep me company. |
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Thanks [Loris], that's actually informative instead of dismissive. |
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See link "Chemtrails for real" - showing a Russian pilot doing a fuel dump, presumably to bring down a Reaper drone. |
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I did think about this the other day as a possibly way a high flying aircraft could spray something that might be noticeable by the time it got to the ground. Military aircraft (and maybe civilian) do sometimes dump fuel (er, "perform a gross weight adjustment") if they're overloaded on the way in for a landing. I think that only happens if a mission is aborted and the plane has to return loaded with full tanks. |
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[21_Quest] - How often does that happen? Am I remembering the circumstances correctly? How high up and how far from an airfield would a gross weight adjustment typically be done? Would the fuel release be noticeable from the ground - visible as a plume in the air or as something making it all the way to the ground? |
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It all depends on specific circumstances. Sometimes if there's an inflight emergency they might not have time to climb to sufficient altitude and have to dump fuel surprisingly low (see link). Possibly equally concerning (perhaps even moreso depending on one's perspective) is when they dump the latrine inflight. |
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Good info, thanks. Look at [2_fries] location, Christina Lake BC - about 100 miles north of Fairchild, and quite a bit closer to a couple of small commercial fields. Any likelihood of someone, mil or civ, making a fuel dump for an emergency landing that he might have been able to see from his place - and notice any mist making it down to the ground? |
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I can see it happening. It's certainly conceivable, but avgas has a pretty strong smell to it. I would expect that he'd have noticed something "off" at the very least if there was that much fuel vapor hovering right above the ground. What I've never really looked into that much is cloud seeding, so it's possible there was some of that going on and unforseen atmospheric conditions caused the dry ice particles to fall further down than intended. That would certainly explain an unexpected mist. |
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Why is it that no one here seems willing to acknowledge a very well established, widely known to exist science such as cloud seeding? |
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I don't dispute the existence of cloud seeding, but I don't "acknowledge" is as a likely explanation for [2f]'s very specific report. If you haven't already (or even if you HAVE) look at the videos he linked here on 12 March - which ahe shut two years ago - and tell me what you really see. |
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I see normal contrails in a partly cloudy sky. I don't see a fog descending to ground level - he says himself he doesn't have a video of that. But he says it did happen, so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt and looking for the most plausible possible explanation. |
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//Thanks [Loris], that's actually informative instead of dismissive.// |
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You're welcome.
... Although - do you see me as usually casually dismissive?
Because if I actually was, I could write a lot less and save a lot of effort. |
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//Why is it that no one here seems willing to acknowledge a very well established, widely known to exist science such as cloud seeding?// |
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I don't think anyone is doubting it, as a thing at least - but why would there be a plane doing it above 2 fries with poisonous chemicals?
And what would those chemicals be?
You mentioned dry ice - and that's not going to make people sick unless it's in lumps which poke them in the eye or something.
To fit with 2fries description, it needs to fall as fog (which isn't what cloud seeding is supposed to do) then make people sick.
And finally, in cloud seeding, don't you need... a cloud? |
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I think I heard, many years ago that ... maybe it was the Russians... who were trying to seed clouds in the suburbs using cement (which you /don't/ want to breath in) to stop it raining on the Olympic games, or something like that.
So, you know, if it was like a whole series of failures and incompetence...
But all in all, it seems like it would be more of a cover story than the actual plan. |
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[Loris], I reckon he meant *I* was being casually dismissive, And that's fair! [2f] never met a conspiracy theory he didn't like, and I dismiss his largely nonspecific claims as casually as he accepts them. But in my defense, when he makes a specific claim, I often look things up and post what I find. That's not being casually dismissive - I do put some work into it :D |
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What I'd missed was the part where he said people got sick. I scrolled back up, and see that now. No, dry ice wouldn't explain that. Silver iodide, however, another chemical commonly used for cloud seeding, might (see link). |
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//These results suggest that AgI from cloud seeding may moderately affect biota living in both terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems if cloud seeding is repeatedly applied in a specific area and large amounts of seeding materials accumulate in the environment.// |
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Interesting about cumulative effects from repeated use of silver iodide on soil bacteria in a lab. But that doesn’t sound the single incident [2f] described. |
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I haven’t ruled out the possibility that he imagined it or greatly embellished something entirely different. Like he got dazed and confused after smoking some weed - and turned that into a fog descending in the valley and left a “town full of people” unwell for days. |
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Maybe it was a marijuana burn and they were dropping stuff to limit the spread? Hell I don't know, I'm reaching here! |
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Aye, but at least you’re not being casually dismissive. |
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Sorry Too Fried, I tried man. |
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//Thanks [Loris], that's actually informative instead of dismissive.// |
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You're welcome.
... Although - do you see me as usually casually dismissive?// |
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Nope. Not you. I meant my thanks.
The annos between your last one and this one are what I think we need less of. |
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Airliners don't all detour to dump semicircular "contrails" above a single location far from any major airport which then 'all' settle to the ground without leaving a paper trail... no matter how much pot anybody smokes.
It'll come out eventually and you'll each owe me a beer.
Deal? |
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You'know, if we're all still alive that is. |
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Shitty thing is I 'honestly' think we got bio-attacked with invasive species insect eggs.
Did a bit of research in my overly abundant spare time and found out that only one type of preying mantis is native to B.C. which nobody here has even ever seen before, yet we had a rainbow of them summer before last.
Turns out hanging clusters of ladybugs are only from Asia.
Haven't researched the others we've had. |
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Any Entomologists out there looking for a thesis paper wet-dream to document? |
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Well then, c'mon up for the summer and stay a spell because I am too busy to and too inept to document it properly.
You can witness the third year wave with us. Yay! |
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Bring lots more screen than you think you'll need. |
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You call somebody's bullshit and get proven wrong you owe them a beer. This is the way. |
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Welcome to Canada. Pull up a stump. |
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...well if they don't want a beer, you offer whatever other drinks you might have which they might want, and if they don't want any of them, well then there's no pleasin'm and they can just go without now can't they? |
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Bro when I come up to Christina Lake this summer, the beer will be on me! |
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Since we're all still here, apparently, I'll take a quick shot at answering a couple of the questions from way back up the thread. |
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First, [21q]'s:
//have you looked at the numbers of dollars being generated by this Covid vaccine?// |
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No, but I'm sure it's very large. If a corporation provides a solution to a big problem, they may make a lot of money out of that. That's Capitalism doing what it does. On the one hand, Capitalism provides a mechanism which often generates solutions faster than other economic systems do. On the other hand, it also provides an incentive for faking problems ... *if* you can get away with that - but that's harder than it sounds, and therefore less common than has often been claimed. |
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The fact that a lot of money has been made from the solution is not evidence that the problem was fake. For example, I'm sure an enormous amount of money was made by arms companies during World War II, but that doesn't mean they just made the whole thing up in order to make that money. |
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//Is your government worthy of your [trust]?// |
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I trust government agencies to keep growing, irrespective of whether they're doing anything useful (though, sometimes, they are).
I trust people in the defense and security sectors to misuse secrecy laws to cover up follies and inefficiencies (quite often) and also outright corruption (less often, but sometimes).
I trust financial markets professionals to keep taking risks with other people's money that they wouldn't take with their own (because that's how they're incentivised).
I trust people who have inherited money to try to protect their own children from some of the pressures and bad experiences suffered by people who have not (which efforts can then feed into, for example, the Iron Law of Wages).
I trust people higher up in religious organisations to be generally less humble and less generous than people further down in them (though there do seem to be some honourable exceptions).
I trust pathogens to keep evolving to take advantage of the opportunities afforded by modern human lifestyles (including large-scale long-distance travel).
I trust people in some parts of the media to select and frame the news in ways which mostly conform to the class ideology of the socio-economic class to which they mostly belong (which is not the same as lying, but can still be unhelpful).
I trust people in other parts of the media to select and frame the news in ways which suit the interests of whichever media baron owns them (again, not *usually* to the point of actually lying).
I trust Marxists (including Critical Theorists) and fascists (including Alt-Rightists) alike to keep pushing stupidly simplistic "us and them" pictures of the world. The Marxist versions usually use longer words, but they have a very similar stupid mistake at their core.
I trust Social Media algorithms to expedite the work of both of these groups, because keeping people riled up is good for their business. For example, Google seems to have decided that I ought to become a Stalinist, and is pushing at me more and more videos and search results tending to that end. Meanwhile they - or perhaps Facebook, or someone else - seem to have decided that our friend [2 fries] ought to become a fascist, so they have (apparently) been pushing at him content about, for example, "globalists". If, one day, you all find that [2 fries] and I have partitioned Poland between us, you should probably just shoot us both. |
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Most of all, though, I trust all of these groups to keep distrusting each other, and therefore not to be able to carry out any really complex or difficult plan in concert with each other and in secret. |
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(In the interests of full disclosure, I should note that I also trust God. See Job and Kierkegaard for more details. But that's not really on topic here). |
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Pertinax, in all my years coming to this website, that is hands down the most awesome thing I have ever read here. Somebody actually sees the world the way I do. Gets kind of lonely sometimes, that was like a light in the darkness. Thank you. |
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The only reason I mentioned the money linked with the Covid vaccine is that it was claimed that tobacco hasn't been banned due to strong lobbying. I was pointing out that there's likely just as much lobbying in Congress for the Covid vaccine with just as much money involved. |
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Big pharma's new gig is addictive drugs that allow you to eat garbage food and still lose weight as long as you keep taking your ridiculously expensive drugs. |
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The beasts that sold you the "food pyramid" saying "eat 200 to 300 servings of "healthy grain" a day" get to keep making money selling corn syrup laced crap and big pharma gets a new demon to fight with their bad health choice preserving shots, pills and nostrums. |
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A mouthpiece representative for Ozembic, a magic weight loss shot came out saying exercise and diet don't help you lose weight, it's strictly genetic, pointing to to a study saying 80% of overweight people have overweight parents so that's the cause. I won't even comment on that. |
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[2f], I posted some links on mantids and ladybugs in British Columbia. Historically, non-native species were introduced from other areas by accident - or sometimes even on purpose to fight other pests - and they do migrate and spread. This has been going on for decades, without dropping them from airliners* in 2021. |
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If you want to find out more about insect populations in your area, check with your regional department of agriculture. They have a deep interest in these things and you’ll likely find more real entomologists with local knowledge there than here on HB. |
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FWIW, I remain casually dismissive of the idea that your region - or you personally - were “bio-attacked with invasive species insect eggs.” I wouldn’t rule out crop dusting, pesticide spraying near you and around the time of your fog incident, that might be a more plausible explanation - but slightly less fiendish. Again, your local farm bureau may have the info you’re after there. |
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—-
* Not from airliners, but helicopters and lower flying cropdusting type aircraft are often used for intentionally “seeding” an area. |
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I'll do that. Thing is though, I don't have video of being sprayed by helicopters, I've got video of getting sprayed by jets.
Whether the sudden emergence, just after that time, of massive waves of insects nobody here has seen in their lifetimes stems from that time or is natural is indeed a valid question. |
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You guys want to know the latest weirdness I just came across today? |
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Well I'ma tell ya anyway. |
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I was talking to a fellow in town today about all the strange insects lately and he says;
"Think that's fucked? When you get home grab a hand-full of snow and try to melt it with a lighter. It won't melt. It'll blacken and smell like burnt plastic."
I said; "Fuck off, no way."
He just goes; "See for yourself." |
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Now... I admit that there's lots of things I don't know all that well, but I've lived more than half a century in Canada, and how snow generally behaves ain't one of them. |
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What the fuck has been falling from the sky all winter?
Because whatever that white shit everywhere outside right now isn't snow. I don't know what the hell it is. |
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Say the word and I'll make a video after so you'll know from the timestamp that... snow scorches instead of melting and smells like plastic now folks.
Swear on my eyesight. |
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Thought I'd seen every fucking thing... |
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Save yourself some time by googling “why can’t you melt snow with a lighter” - you’ll find lots of explanations and videos. |
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Edit: I saved you 15 seconds of typing by posting a link - from 2014, this is nothing new. You’re welcome. |
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Thank you, but I am as skeptical of that debunking as I am of contrails not behaving like they did when I was a kid. |
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There’s an easy way for you to see what snow is made of, even without a lighter. Collect some in a pan, bring it inside to let it melt, check if it’s water or something else. |
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How did contrails behave when you were a kid? How closely did you study them? |
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hmmm maybe a Mandela effect thing. |
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I spent twelve years, off and on, living either next to the Edmonton International Airport, or in towns neighbouring it. |
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In whatever universe I come from, contrails disappear behind airliners. Always. Period. Any altitude. Any time of the year. Always have. |
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I played with a lot of snow growing up.
I played with a lot of fire growing up. |
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Snow didn't scorch there. It tried to put out the flames. |
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You fuckers tore the multi-verse didn't you?
Shit. |
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Your seat may or not be a floatation device. |
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Where I come from the word 'floatation' is the correct spelling... |
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...yet, here, neither of our two scrabble dictionaries contain either spelling. |
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The paragraph or so I deleted after this point is not worth taking abuse over. |
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Yeah... not where I come from. |
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But it goes without saying the sky is full of stuff that will drop on our heads even if it is not snow. You may escape death by plastic snowfall but not the international space station. That's a ton of bricks right there. If a falling balloon doesn't get you a used sidewinder might. |
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// In whatever universe I come from // |
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That may be the simplest explanation, and impossible to disprove. As noted in “The Alternative Factor” (ST:TOS, S1:E20,1967), anyone is likely to be considered a madman when they visit a different universe. |
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Please when you hop between universes, try not to bump into an alternative you coming from the other direction. |
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“…Trapped forever with a raging madman at your throat until time itself came to a stop? For eternity. How would it be?” |
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Sounds rather Star Trek-ian. |
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This shit can be spliced.
It's just a new branch. |
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...or rather, stop panicking. |
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// If a falling balloon doesn't get you a used sidewinder might.// |
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Well that would be very bad for all involved now wouldn't it? |
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Only because it’s an easily accessible example. Do you have a beard in any of your mirror universes? |
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Hey, one of the links I meant to include last week seems to have gone missing. Reposted, it goes with my 13 March comment about the range which you should be able to spot airplanes and their plumes. |
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No it was more likely my own fault. I tend to go back and compulsively over-edit, trying to fix typos and poor phrasing - and I know I sometimes screw things up worse. I should learn to leave my writing alone after I hit OK the first time. |
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[pertinax] I agree with everything you've said.
I just think that our individual definitions of what constitutes GOD may either differ from that which is taught or differ from each others concept of what GOD is. |
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No monotheism existed before a couple of hand-fulls of centuries ago. |
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Something created the universe.
Something within that universe created us. |
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<later edit> ...or tweaked us. |
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A pantheon did not create the universe, nor did its leader. |
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That which created the universe/s... is my GOD. No church needed. We just chat now that I'm stuck here, and someday I will go back to the Great Dreaming. |
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(just my own take on things... I totally get it if it doesn't align with other concepts but it's not the first time and doubt it will be the last) |
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Anything else is just;
I can't believe it's not deity...
...light. |
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// [marked-for-expiry] // |
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Has this one gone past its "not an invention, I just feel like talking about it, best if deleted by" date yet? |
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Just thought you should know.
Delete at will.
Are the topics still relevant?
Is the data storage factor at risk?
Have either of these claims been verified yet?
Does any of it have anything to do with the cost of tea in China? |
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