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Know your HBer

Take a test to see how you stand
  (+4, -3)
(+4, -3)
  [vote for,
against]

I'm sure most HB users think that people are mostly the same. Some more warrior than worrier, some more sociable than sociabubble.

Take the Political Compass test [link]ed. I'd be surprised if anyone escapes the bottom left quadrant.

I think I found a better test a few years ago. If you know of one then please add.

Its just a bit of fun and will show how similar we are.

bigsleep, Apr 14 2021

Political Compass Test https://www.politicalcompass.org/
[bigsleep, Apr 14 2021]

NZ VoteCompass (for comparison) https://votecompass.tvnz.co.nz/
Most of the questions are very NZ-centric (obviously, because it's for the NZ election) [neutrinos_shadow, Apr 14 2021]

the problem of defining the problem https://www.smbc-co...om/comic/definition
[pertinax, Apr 15 2021]

Out of your trees https://www.bbc.com...rld-europe-56757956
[4and20, Apr 15 2021]

Open Sex-Role Inventory Test https://openpsychometrics.org/tests/OSRI/
The Bem Sex-Role Inventory challenges the view that masculinity and femininity are polar opposites. [Loris, Apr 16 2021]

Sex? now were talking about something important http://www.puritytest.net/test/200/
[a1, Apr 17 2021]

Best personailty type test there is. Ancient. https://www.enneagraminstitute.com
I'm going to try and guess which type you are by your ideas. [blissmiss, Apr 17 2021]

Eminem discussing the rhyming of orange https://www.youtube...watch?v=lPcR5RVXHMg
[theircompetitor, Apr 19 2021]

The colour song (spoiler) https://youtu.be/W7Y_bExWy00?t=148
Actually, I really like this song. This link goes direct to the lyric, but I'll link an animated version (uploaded later) below. [Loris, Apr 19 2021]

The color song - animated. https://www.youtube...watch?v=gavT_q9CLME
From the start (and actually still prior to the Eminem vid). [Loris, Apr 19 2021]

Here's another take on HB personality types. Halfbakery_20psychological_20types
Somebody put a lot of work into this. Definately worth a click. [doctorremulac3, Apr 21 2021]

Etymology of 'orange' https://www.etymonl...com/search?q=orange
Per neutrinos_shadow's anno. [DrBob, Apr 23 2021]

'London Labour & The London Poor" by Henry Mayhew https://www.amazon....%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-1
A fantastic bit of research into the occupations of ordinary Londoners during the 'Victorian' era. [DrBob, Apr 24 2021]

Draftee President. Draftee_20President
Let the people pick their leaders the way governments have picked the soldiers that die in wars those governments have started. [doctorremulac3, Apr 27 2021]

https://poliengine.com/blog/how-many-politicians-are-there-in-the-us Number of politicians in the US
[theircompetitor, Apr 27 2021]

[link]






       I'll go first -
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.95
bigsleep, Apr 14 2021
  

       Left/Right -7.5
Lib / Auth: -1.69
RayfordSteele, Apr 14 2021
  

       Economic Left/Right: -6.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.13   

       Secret Clubhouse cheer when a 'Baker enters the pub: 'Noam!!'
Sgt Teacup, Apr 14 2021
  

       Or howabout 'AbNorm!'   

       Some of those were pretty hard to factor between agree and disagree. I found myself waffling on a few.
RayfordSteele, Apr 14 2021
  

       Oh what the heck...   

       Economic Left/Right: -3.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.33   

       "Yo, how's it hangin Mahatma?"   

       I hope that test examines the things which are really important to Halfbakers: strong expertise in spelling and grammar, and a good level of misconceptions about physics.
hippo, Apr 14 2021
  

       Economic Left/Right: -4.13   

       Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.79
21 Quest, Apr 14 2021
  

       I knew it. We're all a bunch of commies. Expect a pound on the door from McCarthy's goons any minute...
RayfordSteele, Apr 14 2021
  

       Dammit. Turns out I'm just another bottom lefty (-4.63 / -1.95).   

       How dull.   

       It's a good thing we have the vanity of small differences to keep the disputes crunchy.   

       Is it possible that [theircompetitor] would make it into the lower right quadrant?
pertinax, Apr 14 2021
  

       I've taken it many times. Bottom left every time but I drift around in there.
Voice, Apr 14 2021
  

       -3.0 -3.03   

       Oh god, I'm a libertarian lefty :   

       I'd take it more seriously if the questions weren't rigged.
FlyingToaster, Apr 14 2021
  

       rigged how?
Voice, Apr 14 2021
  

       As such:   

       OK, first question:   

       "Do you support multi national corporations bleeding the people dry so they can make even more profit and dance on the graves of the workers?"   

       Strongly agree... next   

       "Do feel destroying 90% of wildlife on Earth with climate change is worth it to increase corporate profits by 5 to 10%?"   

       Strongly agree... next   

       "Do you feel that media, news and personal communication between citizens should be controlled by the fewest corporate overlords as possible?"   

       Well, duh, Strongly agree...   

       "Do you feel never ending wars to bring about love and understanding among all mankind through use of heavy aerial bombardment is a good use of taxpayer money?"   

       Ok, these are trick questions, can I just click "Strongly agree" to all someplace?   

       But seriously, not that anybody should care, (I certainly don't) I'm a free market libertarian but believe that industry should follow laws, strict guidelines and rules determined by the people, not lobbiests. I also believe in unfettered freedom of speech, minimal government and dealing with all the complicated issues that civilization faces on a case by case basis.   

       I'll take the test later and see what group it says I'm in, but I'll officially hand in my resignation to whatever group it says I belong to. Not big on groups.
doctorremulac3, Apr 14 2021
  

       3.75, -2.375
theircompetitor, Apr 14 2021
  

       fake dumb blonde so people will leave me alone   

       -5.63 -3.44   

       i feel middle
xandram, Apr 14 2021
  

       //rigged how ?// Any test that refuses to accept <blank> as an answer isn't worth the "statistics" it generates. Ditto "unsure/don't know" , "none of the above", etc.   

       First page:   

       / If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations. /   

       What do you mean "humanity" ? Afaic, knocking global warming on its ass takes precedence over all.   

       / No one chooses their country of birth, so it’s foolish to be proud of it. / Most countries are democratic in nature, so what's wrong with being proud of something worthwhile ? or ashamed of something not so much.   

       / Our race has many superior qualities, compared with other races. / What's this "our" shit ? Which race ? What is considered "superior" ?   

       et cetera.
FlyingToaster, Apr 14 2021
  

       I think the questions were stupid also. But I answered them to the best of my ability, so being a dumb blonde…
xandram, Apr 14 2021
  

       Its my understanding that the questions that irritate people are exactly the ones which their outraged answers to, help to place them on the compass.   

       It's also very interesting how there is some kind of moral element in play here, many commentators seem to think that the compass is trying to "trick" them into giving answers that make them seem more liberal than they "really are". Or that there is some kind of moral superiority to being in the bottom left quadrant.   

       This stuff is all fascinating. It's like trying to nail jelly to a cat.
pocmloc, Apr 14 2021
  

       Economic Left/Right: -2.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.41
And I tried to channel my strict intolerant side!
pocmloc, Apr 14 2021
  

       Yeah, the questions are really quite transparent.   

       //No one chooses their country of birth, so it’s foolish to be proud of it. / Most countries are democratic in nature, so what's wrong with being proud of something worthwhile ? or ashamed.//   

       No, but the country will shape you if you grow up there. Northern England, at the end of the last ice age was an ice-gouged landscape strewn with rocks from glacial till. Then over 10,000 years or so, people I'm descended from went out and physically picked up each rock and built dry-stone walls carefully separating a patchwork of productive fields. I can see that from my childhood bedroom window. It's clearly quite a lot of work, How is it foolish to be proud of it when even the physical landscape is just the extended phenotype of my extended family?
bs0u0155, Apr 14 2021
  

       OK, I'm answering these variously with: "Question assumes facts not in evidence", "False dicotomy", "Informational fallacy" "false dilemma" and "Yea yea, I'm super virtuous as opposed to super non virtuous to answer this super loaded question." so I think I scored a 0.   

       I know, I'm no fun. It's what I do.   

       That being said, bun for an interesting post. [+]
doctorremulac3, Apr 14 2021
  

       Yeah the false dichotomies were fun to wade through.
RayfordSteele, Apr 14 2021
  

       Woah! When I did one of these before the last election here in New Zealand, I was almost perfectly in the centre.
This gives me Eco: -6.13, Soc: -6.46
Just goes to show, the choice of questions can change everything.
  

       Later... I found the NZ version; it puts me Eco: just left of centre, Soc: barely just progressive.
neutrinos_shadow, Apr 14 2021
  

       Huh, who'd have thought I'd have moved to the left in my old age. Poor question design though, as there should always be a 'neutral' option in the middle for each question. I agree with [RayfordSteele] on that.   

       Economic Left/Right: -2.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.28
AusCan531, Apr 15 2021
  

       Yeah the questions are skewed.   

       //It's like trying to nail jelly to a cat.// [marked-for-tagline]   

       What we're missing here is the counterweight in the upper- right corner, which would have been supplied by our departed borg friend. Admittedly, he was never going to be a fan of submitting to authority, but he would have been carried into an authoritarian quadrant anyway, by the old assumption about the correlation of authoritarianism with ethnocentrism, and perhaps also the old assumption about the correlation of authoritarianism with realism.
pertinax, Apr 15 2021
  

       I need to look up a few of those isms... but if you're saying that a critter needs a single head, then I get what you're saying.   

       How exactly does that happen democratically? Especially in a land that can be bought without citizenship?   

       Seriously... did any of our forefathers think this shit through?   

       I know I wasn't consulted yet now have to live with their idiotic decisions.   

       //did any of our forefathers think this shit through? //   

       Yes. It turns out, it's difficult. See link.
pertinax, Apr 15 2021
  

       I thought this was a really dumb idea until I started seeing most people responding with -,- as predicted. It seems to me like there is a reasonable range to political ideas here. I definitely agree with the common sentiment that the test could easily be rigged with the poorly worded questions.   

       Or maybe the other non-conformists are just afraid to post their results. So I'll post mine just to keep things balanced.   

       Economic Left/Right: 1.0 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.9
scad mientist, Apr 15 2021
  

       The only thing that this is testing is people's propensity for joining in. If this is to have any value at all then there needs to be some sort of definition of terms, otherwise the output is meaningless. What is 'left'? What is 'right'?

More importantly, why do you feel the need to attach such lables to yourselves?

hippo's questions are actually more useful in revealing stuff about you as a person. So, in the spirit of community, I shall answer them instead!

I am Grammar Nazi-ish but have lazy days.
I know enough physics general knowledge to sound convincing after a couple of pints in the pub* but stand naked before the world** if asked detailed questions on the subject.

* Fat chance of that, these days.
** There's a mental image for you to conjure with! :D
DrBob, Apr 15 2021
  

       //The only thing that this is testing is people's propensity for joining in// - excellent point! The only question that really needs to be asked in this sort of survey is:

"Are you the kind of person so desperate for meaning and self-affirmation in your life that you are prepared to spend valuable moments of your short existence answering meaningless pseudoscientific surveys hardly worthy of the pages of a cheap weekly magazine such as you might find in a dentist's waiting room?"
hippo, Apr 15 2021
  

       I keep reading the title as "Know your Hitler"
xenzag, Apr 15 2021
  

       What [DrBob] said, plus I think I'd like to join [xandram] in the fake dumb blonde corner if I might. Pretend or otherwise, I have margaritas.   

       Between drinks though, I've been imagining how expanding a notional 2 dimensional compass might look with a third dimension, and an appropriate real-world instrument that could lend its name. The Political Astrolabe doesn't sound as catchy unfortunately, and would probably return your results as a pair of angles and a distance. If we can work up some pseudoscientific questions, we might be able to come up with a contender.   

       Given the two already determined, what might this third dimension be. What would be the most telling metric to measure?   

       For starters, I think a :   

       optimism/pessimism (idealism / pragmatism?) ( idealism / cynicism? )
  

       Might be an interesting one (perhaps someone is a Milton Friedman type who identifies the possibilities of idealised free markets to deliver benefits to the masses, but doesn't believe that such free markets can exist in the real world - similarly, a Marxist-friendly individual might hold the view that an ideal collective organisation with deliberate forward planning can bring about a perfect society, but remain jaded about how this might ever occur in practice - I'd almost imagine these two people having a more similar outlook to one another, than within and amongst groups of idealistic free-marketeers or full-blooded communists)   

       Another metric that might be interesting would be on a kind of rational/sentimental scale. I see a lot of sentimentality in politics, especially in the populism of the last 10 years (maybe even 20 years if you include the various wars on terror and resulting phobias). Sentimental people respond to emotional content, something now delivered in droves via the internet, radicalising otherwise rational people into ever more emotionally charged, less considered versions of their former selves. This causes them to drift from the centre and occupy more fringe positions, making them more tribal and more likely to cling to, construct and work to maintain, increasingly tenuous (largely online) identities in the face of real world experience.   

       This more than anything, I think accounts for the degree of controversy - as [bigsleep] insightfully points out, most people agree (and perhaps even more so here, given the numbers) on what they want (freedom, nice times, prosperity for all, hugs etc) but have different ideas about how we're most likely to get it. It would be tragic if the world all wanted the same thing, but due to implementation disagreements managed to fail to deliver.
zen_tom, Apr 15 2021
  

       [zen] - I agree, a rational/sentimental or evidence/ideology scale would be very interesting. Another one which differentiates people is pragmatic/vision-oriented - i.e. whether a person is inclined to act for immediate, pragmatic goals, or in the pursuit of a far-off 'vision'.
hippo, Apr 15 2021
  

       One Wikipedia page I read did mention a three dimensioned axis but didn't go into detail about what the third axis would be isolated as.
RayfordSteele, Apr 15 2021
  

       I think an interesting series of questions might be "On a scale of 1 to 5, how do you judge whatever group you consider yourself a member of (Democrat, Republican, Socialist, Revolutionary, Conservative, Libertarian) in terms of 1- Efficacy in solving problems. 2- Morality 3- Moral turpitude 4- Intellect 5- Success in solving problems in the past 6- Failures at solving problems in the past etc. Second set of questions "How do you judge the group which you most consider yourself the opposite of on those same measurements?   

       So basically a "groupist" score which would be based on the difference between the two. A big believer in simple group dynamics might have a score of "Perfect" on the group relate themselves to and "Perfectly horrible" on the group they consider themselves opposite of.   

       Then a further set of questions might zero in on actual issues of those groups. So a person who considers themselves Republican who hates Democrats might be asked if they like social security. If they say yes, their ranking of liking a Democrat program would be weighed against their perception of the Democrats in general. A Democrat saying they hate Republican war mongering they might be asked if they supported getting into WW1, WW2 and Vietnam, then shown those were all entered into by Democrat presidents.   

       So I guess the idea would be to leave them confused and disillusioned about their dumb little group which might be good. Steer them towards evaluating individual issues as they come instead of trusting leader types who try to heard people into groups for fun and profit.
doctorremulac3, Apr 15 2021
  

       [dr] I get the idea, but your scheme presupposes groupism from the start. Only a groupist would be able to answer the initial question, at which point, all hope is lost anyway. Though, what's that sound? I think I hear a Russellian Barber knocking at my door...
zen_tom, Apr 15 2021
  

       Really, the best way of categorising people is via a meta-survey asking which of all these various metrics they regard as the best ways of categorising people. E.g.: Rank, by order of importance and ability to provide insight the following spectrums for describing people: (a) economic Left/Right, (b) social libertarian/authoritarian, (c) grammar Nazi/grammar dilettante, (d) scientist/artist, (e) optimism/pessimism, (f) idealism/cynicism, (g) rational/sentimental, (h) evidence/ideology - the order in which you rank these could say a lot about you
hippo, Apr 15 2021
  

       [hippo] you forgot to include the meta-survey as another option. But, I broadly agree, that would be an interesting metric.   

       I remember being sent on my first foreign assignment for a company I'd just started working for, to do a combined software and database upgrade at a client's premises. I was maybe 26-27. It went disastrously, everything that could go wrong did go wrong. To make matters worse, my point-of- contact at the client place was less than patient - possibly due to the amount of cocaine he was putting up his nose during work-hours. At the end, after a week of late nights, shouting, plenty of worrying and lots of phone calls back to base, I finally got it sorted out and working, and was finally free to leave. The client gave me a parting shot after escorting me to the lifts, looking down at my shoes saying "You can tell a lot about a person from their shoes." It wasn't until long after my flight had taken off that I thought "Ahhh, but you can tell a lot more about someone by the arbitrary proxy criteria they employ to make their personal judgements." but by then it was too late, the moment had gone.
zen_tom, Apr 15 2021
  

       To go one stage further, you could survey people on whether they approve or disapprove of categorising people (y axis); and whether they think such category assignations are meaningful or not (x axis). That could give a useful two axis chart. Perhaps [Dr. R] might come out as +x -y (disapproves of categorising but thinks categories are valid); [zt] thinks the categories themselves are meaningless, but posted a long tract apparently in favour of the process. So -x +y. [Bigs] posted the idea, and says //shows how similar we are// implying the categorisation has meaning so +x +y. Myself, I don't approve of anything and I think the entire universe is meaningless so -x -y for me.
pocmloc, Apr 15 2021
  

       [zen] Yes! that kind of statement does say something about him.
Also, yes, of course the meta-survey should also be self-referential
[pocmloc] I like your thinking, although is there not a contradiction in you being (-x -y) and willingly categorising yourself as this?
hippo, Apr 15 2021
  

       // [zt] thinks the categories themselves are meaningless, but posted a long tract apparently in favour of the process. // I'm going to try and haul back a shred of respectability from this particularly damning but well-observed point by saying: If you're going to do something, even if (especially if?) it's meaningless, it's only appropriate to do it properly.   

       [hippo] it's a personal bugbear - I remember getting annoyed on another occasion when someone, noticing that I wore my watch on my right-hand wrist, remarking how they couldn't trust people who wore their watch on their right-hand. This resulted in me arriving at the same conclusion as I did for the shoe- guy.
zen_tom, Apr 15 2021
  

       [zen] so you're saying that you arbitrarily pass judgement on people's entire characters because of one weird thing they say? :-)
hippo, Apr 15 2021
  

       //"You can tell a lot about a person from their shoes."//   

       The client was embarrassed that the job couldn't have been done in-house so tried to belittle you. The fact that he used such a trite expression tells me he wasn't that smart, but sociable enough just to roll out dumb sayings at the drop of a hat*. It's highly probable that his father was also a smug arsehole, drove a Capri and came from Nottingham.   

       * just ignore that one.
bigsleep, Apr 15 2021
  

       //[dr] I get the idea, but your scheme presupposes groupism from the start.//   

       Well it could be a test for that. So you could come out with a "groupist score".   

       By the way, you might hide that this is a group affinity test until the end otherwise it would color the people's answers. Nobody wants to consider themselves a groupist so loaded questions like "Would you do anything your group leaders tell you to do without question?" isn't really useful because nobody would answer yes to that.   

       Hmm. There's an interesting concept, hidden test.   

       "Take this test so see how much you like pastries!" is actually a criminal tendency or sociopath test. "Would you steal a pastry if nobody was looking?" etc. I wouldn't include stuff like "Would you murder somebody and bury their body to get pastries if they were good enough?" Might be a little obvious.   

       By the way, I'm not virtue signalling that I'm not a groupist, my group to which I've sworn my life and blind allegence to is just very small. My family and friends. The bigger the group, the less interested I am in joining. Unless it's just singular issue stuff like music fans, art fans, sports fans, technology and science fans etc. That's pretty harmless.   

       By the other way, this has turned into one of the most interesting HB discussions in memory. Thought provoking stuff from everybody here. Don't know about my posts but the others are all pretty intriguing. And all without 8th and Max. Look at us, soldiering on without the front line of our old team! Yay!
doctorremulac3, Apr 15 2021
  

       I don't know how seriously to take that test, which I've done several times and it consistently shows me to be libertarian socialist, which is entirely unsurprising.
nineteenthly, Apr 15 2021
  

       //Would you murder somebody and bury their body to get pastries if they were good enough?// That is a pointless question to ask, because everyone would without fail answer "yes" to that.   

       [hippo] it was only an example with no necessary connection to logic or truth.
pocmloc, Apr 15 2021
  

       //no necessary connection to logic or truth// [marked-for-tagline]
hippo, Apr 15 2021
  

       "It's like trying to nail jelly to a cat.", I'm still laughing at that.   

       I guess I'll do this test thingy when there is time.
blissmiss, Apr 15 2021
  

       //"You can tell a lot about a person from their shoes."//   

       To be fair, it's true. Size of the foot, at least an estimate of height. How they walk from the wear-pattern. Where they walked recently from the transfer. Maybe some inferences about age and gender from the style.
I'm not sure if there would be enough undegraded DNA to try to get a genome sequence, but it might be worth a shot.
And if you want a sniffer dog to find the owner of an item, the shoe must be up there as the thing to have.
Loris, Apr 15 2021
  

       "I've worn lots of shoes..."
RayfordSteele, Apr 15 2021
  

       //I don't know how seriously to take that test//
Not seriously at all.
I only took the NZ one (back before the election) because I didn't know where I "sat" on the political spectrum. It turned out my position was mostly aligned with a party that I had barely heard of, and thought the leader of it was an idiot (he's left the party now, so I'll take another look at their policies before the next election).
neutrinos_shadow, Apr 15 2021
  

       [Ray], nice Gump quote. Despite being disparaged as 'not quite right', the script writer gives Forrest all sorts of amazing experiences, doing good despite most folks opinions of him, and affecting history in uplifting ways. Being an outlier myself (ie: difficult, interesting, not the middle 80% of the Bell curve), I've always liked outliers best, hence my enjoyment of the HB.   

       Note: my original Cheers quote was altered to allow for most of us appearing in the same flawed-but- thought-provoking-test quadrant as Chomsky. I'll allow that your eyesight may have been blurry from the drinks when you misread it as 'Norm!'.   

       [Loris], entertaining Holmesian analysis of shoe values. I wonder: what do we show the dog's nose, if the criminal is barefoot? Footstool? Bath mat?
Sgt Teacup, Apr 15 2021
  

       “Samuel Vimes dreamed about Clues. He had a jaundiced view of Clues. He instinctively distrusted them. They got in the way. And he distrusted the kind of person who’d take one look at another man and say in a lordly voice to his companion, “Ah, my dear sir, I can tell you nothing except that he is a left-handed stonemason who has spent some years in the merchant navy and has recently fallen on hard times,” and then unroll a lot of supercilious commentary about calluses and stance and the state of a man’s boots, when exactly the same comments could apply to a man who was wearing his old clothes because he’d been doing a spot of home bricklaying for a new barbecue pit, and had been tattooed once when he was drunk and seventeen* and in fact got seasick on a wet pavement. What arrogance! What an insult to the rich and chaotic variety of the human experience!”
a1, Apr 15 2021
  

       //Holmesian analysis// you took the words right out of my mouth. A very Holmesian analysis indeed.   

       I suppose in addition, were one to take those shoes and walk a few miles in them, even more information would be forthcoming.
zen_tom, Apr 15 2021
  

       No, I don't drink anything harder than tea. I was aware that you were referring to Chomsky.
RayfordSteele, Apr 15 2021
  

       Understood, [Ray]. I did think you might be riffing (Norm... Noam... AbNorm) so I took the opportunity to confirm. Satire, sarcasm, riffing--subtle humour is difficult to communicate in the absence of auditory and physical cues, between cultures, across space/time. I'm starting to decompensate absent the pub/ community centre/ firepit/ homeless shelter in-person gatherings.
Sgt Teacup, Apr 16 2021
  

       Economic Left/Right: -6.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.18   

       No big surprise here.
blissmiss, Apr 16 2021
  

       Another question for the meta-survey: "Do you think the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator method of categorising people has any value or scientific validity?"
hippo, Apr 16 2021
  

       I'd be curious to see how a few million people answered this question on a test: "What do you think should be done with people on the opposite side of the political spectrum from you?   

       1- Understand humans have differences and reach out to try to change their mind, understanding that you as a human might be wrong on some issues as well and stand corrected after communication with a person with another viewpoint. Working out differences peacefully is the way to a better world.   

       2- Write them off and just try to have your own way of doing things and let them have their own way of doing things.   

       3- Do everything in your power to arrest their power to hurt society with their bad ideas using activism and debate and hope that democracy eventually ends up with the good guys in charge.   

       4- Realize that sometimes violence and destruction of individuals is necessary for the greater good.   

       5- With the stakes as high as they are, it's time for the enemies of all that is good to be taken down by any means necessary, including killing as many of them as we need to, internment camps, and in some cases where they might be saved, education camps, but mostly genocide, which is a loaded term because it implies something bad, but with these people it would be good. Start with their leaders and go down the line until the world has been purged of this menace.   

       Pretty sure everybody here's a 1 to 3 on that scale.   

       Although on second thought, I might not want to see the results of a large scale version of that test. If say, 5 million people took the test and even 5% answered #5, yeesh. I think I'd be happier not knowing that.
doctorremulac3, Apr 16 2021
  

       Dear hippo. The Enneagram is much better at sorting us into categories. The thing about Enneagram is it is an ongoing learning experience as you progress in living, up the scales of behaviors, attitudes and preferences.   

       Much more useful and for some life-changing. We used it at my last job to gain knowledge on motivations and directions that were highly predictable from our bosses and such. We found each of us to inevitably behave in the exact way our category suggested.
blissmiss, Apr 16 2021
  

       Dear doctor, I see the divine in the bad guy and remember he was made from the same stuff as I was.
blissmiss, Apr 16 2021
  

       Economic Left/Right: -2.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.72
  

       I think it's the most anarchic result so far.   

       Here's a more interesting thing: the Bem Open Sex-Role Inventory test. It's pretty quick to do. I bump around a little, but always end up in the upper right. Today I'm:   

       Masculinity : 114
Femininity : 103
Loris, Apr 16 2021
  

       Now the Bem thing seems a lot less rigourous and sensible than the political one. It seems to be instantly confused between gender and sex, and it does not seem to have a coherent definition of "masculinity" or "femininity" - the questions seem to be based on some 1950s American gender stereotype model, but its hard to tell.   

       I suppose this could reflect back on the political categorisation - but surely the definitions of "left" / "right" and "authoritrian" / "liberal" are more objective and impartially defined? Even if they are relatively contingent.
pocmloc, Apr 16 2021
  

       //Now the Bem thing seems a lot less rigourous and sensible than the political one. It seems to be instantly confused between gender and sex, and it does not seem to have a coherent definition of "masculinity" or "femininity" - the questions seem to be based on some 1950s American gender stereotype model, but its hard to tell.//   

       I dunno... maybe?
I think it uses "sex" only in the term "sex-role", which is presumably a terminology thing. In the opening text, it says the model was developed "to challenge the view the masculinity and femininity were polar opposites and that a masculinity-femininity not matching your gender was a sign of poor mental health." If you want to critique the test, you might have to read up on the literature first.
  

       The questions seem to me more explicit and easier to answer confidently - and significantly less culture-specific than the political one, and the test is more rigorous in having a neutral option.
Loris, Apr 16 2021
  

       //enough DNA to try to get a genome sequence,//   

       You would easily get enough DNA to get an id. You don't need a full sequence, not even nearly.
bs0u0155, Apr 16 2021
  

       //You would easily get enough DNA to get an id. You don't need a full sequence, not even nearly.//   

       We were trying to maximise the information yield of the shoes, remember?
Loris, Apr 16 2021
  

       [bs0], Freud would be so proud of you, looking for the instinctual Id in the shoes. DNA samples usually yield more Ego-based results. Traces of SuperEgo can, of course, already be found in the HB.
Sgt Teacup, Apr 16 2021
  

       That’s beautiful Blissy. Reminds me of this.   

       As he held aloft the glorious banner of victory, he paused to reflect. So much suffering, so much pain, was it worth it? With that, the gladiator left the field of battle, but as he passed the vague shape that was his former enemy, he paused and bowed his head. A subtle salute? Perhaps. An acknowledgement of the humanity of his fallen opponent and former foe? Maybe. As the sun set on the field of battle, like it had countless times before, the warrior walked away. Along his path, silhouetted birds in the trees overhead serenaded the coming nightfall, and the arrival of the peaceful Moon.
doctorremulac3, Apr 16 2021
  

       What is that, doctor? Who wrote this luscious piece of writing?
blissmiss, Apr 17 2021
  

       Just a guy who’s tired of all the suffering and death he’s seen.
doctorremulac3, Apr 17 2021
  

       [Loris] I see your Bem and raise a 200 question purity test <link>. I only get 16% - mainly due to my caution with illicit drugs.
a1, Apr 17 2021
  

       I'm pretty sure I took *that* test in the 1990s. Depressing on so many levels, starting with, "Is that *really* how you want to define purity?"
pertinax, Apr 17 2021
  

       Okay, so we're all agreed.
There is no such thing as an unbiased test.
Huh...
  

       Well I don't know about you but that's my new-thing-for-the-day and I'm off to bed.   

       //Open Sex-Role Inventory Test//   

       Wow, that test sucked. You could replace it with a set of stereotypes and get just as little information. In fact it probably was made directly from a set of stereotypes. There are innate differences between men and women but that test managed to dodge all of them in favor of "men are violent and adventurous". I'm going to go waaaay out on a limb and guess the author likes the Duluth model.
Voice, Apr 17 2021
  

       I take it you were rated as undifferentiated, then.   

       More seriously, you can read a little about how they developed it by following a link. As I understand it, that involved getting results for a looong list of questions and doing stats to identify the most informative ones.
To complain that the questions stereotype maleness and femaleness just illustrates that there are clusters behind the stereotypes.
Loris, Apr 17 2021
  

       I repeat, Enneagram is the best, hands down. It cost 12 bucks but it's so worth every penny. I work on my identified areas I can improve to be happier and more successful in life, every day.
blissmiss, Apr 17 2021
  

       [blissmiss] yes, but so can any good carnival fortune teller. The best ones can do an excellent cold read without asking obvious questions,
a1, Apr 17 2021
  

       I'm unfamiliar with Enneagram so I went to the Wikipedia page and zeroed in on the criticism which included primarily reviews from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and American Psychological Association. The reviews weren't exactly scathing, it seems the reports kind of hemmed and hawed about its efficacy which I read as "May do SOME good stuff but we don't like it." Considering it might be cutting into their business it could be read to be a little like McDonalds reviewing Burger King.   

       But I don't know. Seems like exploration of personality types could be a good exercise. Does Enneagram have some validity? I know at least one person who appears to have benefited from it and I assume others have as well.   

       I pride myself in being smart enough to say "I don't know" (a lot) and this is one of those instances, but I know the one of the main pioneers of the psychiatric profession that criticized this was a nut job quack (Freud) and I won't rail against the church since I'm a religion supporting atheist, but I'll take their criticism as subjective on this point.   

       But if people are benefitting from this, I'd support them. Didn't see anything like Scientology with this practice. No Lord Zenus or Engrams, anything like that.
doctorremulac3, Apr 17 2021
  

       I haven't looked properly at the Enneagram thing, but just looking at their website has revealed I may be the kind of person who is instantly sceptical when reading that they describe their personality type test as the "Riso-Hudson Enneagram Type Indicator (RHETI® version 2.5)"
hippo, Apr 17 2021
  

       I'm skeptical of the usefulness of this quiz since it did not include the key phrases "God-Emperor", "Galactic Crusade", or "Kabbalistic marriage"
sninctown, Apr 17 2021
  

       Just for fun then, in order of comment; blisseneagram...   

       [a1]-Skeptical pessimist.   

       [doctor]-open-minded and questions that which he has no knowledge of.   

       [hippo]-more pragmatic than a pessimist, at least willing to bother to look it up before condemning.   

       [sninctown]-Deflecting humorist. Makes us laugh before deciding it's useless.   

       That'll be $12 each.
blissmiss, Apr 17 2021
  

       //I repeat, Enneagram is the best, hands down. It cost 12 bucks but it's so worth every penny.//   

       It it different from an Enemagram ?
bigsleep, Apr 17 2021
  

       <knock knock knock>   

       "EnemaGram for Mongo!"   

       <Mongo opens door>   

       <Kaboom!>
Sgt Teacup, Apr 17 2021
  

       "It it different from an Enemagram ?" — blisseneagram says;   

       [bigsleep]-Hmmm, kind of a difficult style to categorize. Maybe sort of a child-like sense of humor mixed with a typo?
blissmiss, Apr 18 2021
  

       I dunno, I keep dyslexically reading that as Emenemigram and wondering if orange really does rhyme with door hinge...   

       I went to the shop for an orange, but all of them seemed to be foreign! Just my luck! But, sublime was the resulting rhyme, though it might make its readers sob or whinge.
pocmloc, Apr 18 2021
  

       [pocmloc] excelled at the challenge
of finding some good rhymes for ‘orange’
hippo, Apr 18 2021
  

       Thought it would be interesting to just create a word that rhymes with orange so I just threw various letters in front of orange. Borange, torange etc. Looked them up and boy, has that been thought of before by just about everybody.   

       The mere fact that everybody and his uncle has tried to create and popularize a word that rhymes with orange shows that that's probably going to be difficult to do. Everybody will just say "You're just making up a stupid word for the sake of it rhyming with orange." Throw a letter in front of orange and look it up, they've all been tried.
doctorremulac3, Apr 18 2021
  

       If we guess what the word is will you tell us?   

       Well... you have mentioned before on other threads that you've coined a term in the past, so anyone who thinks your claim sounds insane already has their minds made up.   

       Besides, when I tell the truth people think I'm insane all the time so I for one believe you.   

       Yea, but I didn't go into so much detail.   

       Sometimes I just like to hear the relaxing clicking of the keyboard you know? Writing for the sake of writing.   

       Now I need to make up something actually interesting.   

       Hmm. Astronaut would be cool.   

       Back to the "orange" rhyme thing. Weird that there'll never be a word that rhymes with orange just because people won't accept it. Words are created all the time, but the orange pronunciation is sacrosanct.
doctorremulac3, Apr 18 2021
  

       The French name Solange, as do the words melange, and estrange all rhyme with Orange (assuming you apply the appropriate accent), so there's that avenue if required. It's not ideal, but might be enough to get you out of a tight spot should you find yourself in some kind of orange-rhyming survival scenario.   

       [edit] Oh and of course, wikileaks founder Julian Assange.
zen_tom, Apr 18 2021
  

       [zen tom]; I would dispute most of those (possibly based on how things are pronounced where I live...).
"Orange" gets pronounced "oh rinj" (quite a short "oh", longer "i")
"Solange" might get there, depending on your french-ness (I was about to suggest looking for foreign words...) but it's the "a" pronounced as an "i" that makes orange stand alone.
neutrinos_shadow, Apr 19 2021
  

       Door hinge. Closest I've heard... but does it count?   

       So frustrating.   

       First, you need a rigourous definition or specification of what it means "to rhyme" and also "to not quite rhyme". That seems to be the boundary under dispute.
pocmloc, Apr 19 2021
  

       Here is the definition of rhyme.
The words sound the same nearly all of the time.
In cases where rhyming's decidedly off,
This is allowed if it leads to a laugh.
DrBob, Apr 19 2021
  

       But what about Spanish or Arabic where 'naranja' comes from ?   

       There once was a kid from Nannonja
Who dreamed of being a Ninja
As much as he trained
He wasn't big brained
His outfit wasn't black, but naranja.
bigsleep, Apr 19 2021
  

       door hinge was first (that I'm aware of) proposed by Eminem
theircompetitor, Apr 19 2021
  

       //door hinge was first (that I'm aware of) proposed by Eminem//   

       I see your youtube Eminem video evidence, uploaded Dec 2016, and raise you "the color song", uploaded Apr 2011.
Loris, Apr 19 2021
  

       -2.38 -1.64   

       I thot I was in another quadrant entirely, like that one over there. Perhaps when I gets smarter.
whatrock, Apr 19 2021
  

       Orange is a word that leaves all of us vexed,
'cause to rhyme with it we don't know what we'd say next.
We've tried, but in vain, to create a new word,
by adding new letters, but that got absurd.
We've mixed and matched phrases, with similar words,
but only got lame compositional turds.
So let us accept, that the noble word orange,
doesn't have any words that rhyme with it.
doctorremulac3, Apr 19 2021
  

       Bravo, [Dr]
Voice, Apr 21 2021
  

       :)
doctorremulac3, Apr 21 2021
  

       Oh poor halfbakers!
All locked in pursuit
Of a word that will rhyme
With a citrussy fruit.
But outside the box
If approached with good humour
You'll find many words
That rhyme with...satsuma?
DrBob, Apr 21 2021
  

       ^ (+)   

       Kumquats, anybody?
pertinax, Apr 22 2021
  

       Wow, poetry slam!   

       (that's a thing in California, not sure if they do that anywhere else)   

       OK, umm...   

       Here I sit, broken hearted.
Read Descartes but only Sartred.
  

       Hmm. Should have quit while I was ahead.
doctorremulac3, Apr 22 2021
  

       ^ I guess I shouldn't mention my Longfellow?
AusCan531, Apr 22 2021
  

       Some poetry is so obtuse
Think Dr. Freud, not Dr. Seuss
It’s Oedipal, like Dickens
Not edible like chickens
But in the last analysis
Cigars are always dicks
Analysis paralysis
And lyme…inducing ticks
It isn’t always poetry
No, even if it rhymes
No, poems don’t grow on a tree
And most are verbal crimes
(well, you try rhyming orange
while standing in their bow range)
This won’t make me a laureate
Of that I’m fairly certain
My coding baccalaureate
My day job…Draw the curtain
theircompetitor, Apr 22 2021
  

       //Kumquats, anybody?//
Sounds like a challenge!

Come one, come all! To the greengrocers ball.
No matter how juicy. No matter how small.
Whether grown in an orchard or indoors in pots.
Come oranges! Come lemons! Come limes! Kumquats!
DrBob, Apr 22 2021
  

       "I say", said the noble Sir Lancelot,
"I really quite fancy a kumquat,
- but, in a nutshell,
it's so hard to spell.
I don't even know if it has an umlaut!"
hippo, Apr 22 2021
  

       [+++++++]!
zen_tom, Apr 22 2021
  

       Wow again!
doctorremulac3, Apr 22 2021
  

       While thinking about the word orange one day, a revelation came my way.
It hit me like a supernova, an orange in Slovak is an oranzova.
While in Japan, in a fruit buying frenzy, you'd order yourself a nice ripe orenji.
In ancient Rome, while buying tobacco, you might also throw in an aurantiaco. (Okay, that one sucked)
In Romania, at the street fruit trolly, you'd order yourself up a portocale.
Want to impress your new fiancé? In Finnish you'd give her a ripe oranssi.
So yes there are rhymes, but let's just distinguish,
it's done 'round the world, just not ever in English.
  

       I wouldn't do a Google search of giving your gal a ripe oranssi. Sounds like it might be slang for something you don't want on your search history.
doctorremulac3, Apr 22 2021
  

       While dancing a merry foxtrot
My toe was squished by some punk. "What
do you think you are doing?"
said I as he took to the wing.
But I made sure that he soon had a sunk yacht!

(Damn! - forgot to do the key thing of actually ending one of the lines with "kumquat"!)
hippo, Apr 22 2021
  

       Fun fact for the day: the colour "orange" is named AFTER the fruit (ie. NOT "we'll call this fruit an orange because of what colour it is..." but "this orange fruit is a strange colour; what shall we call this colour?).
neutrinos_shadow, Apr 22 2021
  

       I'm interested in geneology of words. Who was the first person that picked one of these and said "Orange" or "splugglemunk" or whatever the first name was?   

       And where do we get other communications, like non verbal ones? I think we shake our head "no" because it's what a kid does when it doesn't want to eat, turns his head away. Does that mean nodding your head is more like chewing, like you're eating something?   

       Do all cultures shake and nod their head for negative and affirmative?   

       Actually I'm told that no, it's not universal.
doctorremulac3, Apr 22 2021
  

       Thanks for the link DocB.
doctorremulac3, Apr 23 2021
  

       My pleasure!

Here's my last set of words on this subject...

In London in the Victorian age
There was a con in which some would engage.
In these modern times it would make you cringe
But back in the day weren't no rules to infringe.
Transform tired citrus using syringe.
Inject water, sell juicy orange!

This was actually a real scam that was carried out by some unscrupulous street vendors. I've added a link to Henry Mayhew's fantastic book 'London Labour & The London Poor', which provides a wealth of detail on what 'ordinary' Londoners got up to whilst their social betters were off gallivanting around the empire.
DrBob, Apr 23 2021
  

       Economic Left/Right: 5.88   

       Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.87   

       I'm think that puts me reasonably far into anarcho-capitalist territory. However, I generally find anarcho-capitalists to be a bunch of self-absorbed myopic pricks. So… I dunno?
ytk, Apr 24 2021
  

       (DocB) Very good! And yes, I did follow the hint and read orange as or-inge. I can honestly say yesterday when there were no orange poems I was kind of disappointed.   

       But yes, we should probably move on. I'm out of ideas on that one myself.   

       (yt) Anarcho-capitalist? Hmm. Count me in for the name alone.
doctorremulac3, Apr 24 2021
  

       wow there's someone else to the right of the X axis?
theircompetitor, Apr 24 2021
  

       Not me necessarily, I just like the way that sounds.   

       Didn't take the full test. Maybe I'll try it again.   

       See? Right off the bat, "I'd support my country right or wrong." Badly worded question so it's like somebody coming up to me, holding a crystal to my head to see if my chacras are aligned. I'm not interested in their findings.   

       If the country does something wrong, I'd try to fix the situation. I'd "support" it by trying to stop it from doing that bad thing. Does the question mean "No matter what my country does, I'll support that action?". OK, no, but that's not the question. Vague and ambiguous, move that it be stricken from the record.   

       OK, let's see if I can get any further this time.   

       "No one chooses their country of birth, so it’s foolish to be proud of it." What if there's some achievement your country has done that makes you proud of it? If you're born in Zhitholia and they put the first colony on Mars and cure cancer, are you foolish to be proud of it just because you were born there?   

       Okay, I'm going back to researching poetry about oranges.
doctorremulac3, Apr 24 2021
  

       // What if there's some achievement your country has done that makes you proud of it? //   

       Ah, an opportunity to trot out my screed on the word “pride.” Thanks!   

       To me, you can be proud of your own achievements, and maybe of others’ if you played a part in them. Any other kind of “pride” is unearned, misplaced.   

       My stepson is in the military and has done quite well. People sometimes ask me if I’m proud of him - I usually say he should rightly be proud of himself and that I am mightily impressed.   

       BUT... a few years ago he was at a family gathering that I did not attend. A relative asked him how he got along with his stepfather (me) and he replied “He made me the man I am today.”   

       When my wife told me about it later, I turned away so she wouldn’t see me wipe a tear. But at that moment I was proud.   

       Earned it, don’t you think?
a1, Apr 24 2021
  

       I'm proud of a lot of things, including my country, though sometimes my country does make me scratch my head and worry.
theircompetitor, Apr 24 2021
  

       [a1] I'm with you 100% all the way - I know people do it anyway, but I think it's a failure of consequences to be proud of things that are unrelated to your own actions. That includes, among other things; history, sports teams, nationalism, military prowess and racial pride. Perhaps as one gets older, it becomes more reasonable to be proud of national things that have been supported by your taxes - The Health or Education services perhaps - but still, it's a stretch. If Manchester United win the cup, do all the supporters who randomly chose that particular arrangement of colours get to feel as though they've achieved something? Many do, though, I would suggest not. If England win the football, or the cricket, the volleyball or the chess, is that something I can rationally feel good about? Be my guest (imaginary person arguing with me) if appropriating the feeling of success from random events is something that makes you personally feel better - but it doesn't do it for me. At best, pride felt this way is logically misplaced - and at worst, it's a dangerous delusion.
zen_tom, Apr 24 2021
  

       //When my wife told me about it later, I turned away so she wouldn’t see me wipe a tear. But at that moment I was proud. Earned it, don’t you think?//   

       Absolutely. And I thank your son for his service and thank you for raising a good man. I did the same thing by the way when my boy joined the Marines and said I was his first hero. Won't admit to getting a tear when he was chosen to lead the recruits on parade during final inspection day at the police academy though. Won't admit to it that is.   

       That being said if my daughter tries to join the military I'll tell the medical staff at the recruiters she was born with only 100 bones in her body, (very sad). Hopefully they won't follow up by actually checking. Not going through that hell again. Those who've been there know that on the rare occasion you get to talk to your child who's deployed for combat you always close with "I love you." in case those are the last words you get to say to them.
doctorremulac3, Apr 24 2021
  

       But - stepdaughter still sneeringly refers to me as “mom’s boyfriend.” Averages, I guess :D
a1, Apr 24 2021
  

       LOL. They love you, but sometimes you're just the guy telling them to clean their room. You get seen more as "Janitorial Protocol Enforcement" than "Father" on occasion.
doctorremulac3, Apr 24 2021
  

       Not very good as an indicator perhaps, I come out somewhere below & left of Gandhi & yet I consider practically all of the supposed libertarian left parties in the UK (Labour, Liberals & Greens) to be (exaggerated hyperbole & polemics for effect alert) 'the devils own spawn worthy of little more than a swift & brutal death, probably with a little light torture thrown in on the side for good measure', presently I find I'm forced to vote Conservative as the nearest thing to an adult in the room, so I've some (very) serious doubts about this 'tests' validity.   

       //I come out somewhere below & left of Gandhi// //worthy of little more than ..//   

       It didn't ask any questions about passivism I note :)   

       OK so it did ask about the death penalty, but what some 'might' deserve & what powers any government or judiciary should be trusted with aren't the same thing at all, a bit of a failing in the 'test' there to my mind failing to draw a distinction between the two things.
Skewed, Apr 27 2021
  

       How would the conversation go, if Gandhi met Gandalf?
pertinax, Apr 27 2021
  

       //I consider practically all of the supposed libertarian left parties in the UK (Labour, Liberals & Greens) to be (exaggerated hyperbole & polemics for effect alert) 'the devils own spawn//   

       I've been unable to vote for anyone in UK elections in quite a while. If someone came along that could convince me that they at least weren't catastrophically dumb that would help. I'd love to vote for a bright, capable, functioning adult - but where are they? Well, would a bright, capable, functioning adult want to be anywhere near the nest of morons and narcissists when they could lead a much more pleasant existence elsewhere?
bs0u0155, Apr 27 2021
  

       Bright, capable functional adults don't aspire to be politicians, and those few that might, have to go up against sociopaths that will say and do anything to get to power.   

       Think about it. Talk to a young person about their aspirations. They might say things like they want to be a pro football player, become a doctor, start a successful business, become a singer, artist, writer, start a family, travel the world etc. Now picture yourself talking to a teenager that says "I want all encompassing power over as many people as possible and will say and do whatever I need to achieve that." One group would fill you with hope for the future, that last kid would make you think those doomsday survivalist bunker guys might have a point after all.
doctorremulac3, Apr 27 2021
  

       Anybody who WANTS to be in charge shouldn't be trusted. Only solution would be to "draft" the leaders. Put everyone* with who hasn't been in jail or mental institution into a lottery, and whoever's name gets drawn gets dragged kicking and screaming to the capitol for a one or two year term as a manager, ombudsman or whatever you want to call it - just don't make it sound like a position of authority   

       * Well, maybe not EVERYONE. Set some additional qualifications like college education in related fields (finance, management, engineering, logistics...).
a1, Apr 27 2021
  

       Great idea a1, we're on agreement on that one. (link)   

       By the way, just joined the Halfbakery back then and picked a name at random, had heard this guy on the Howard Stern show who could call in and repeat "I am Doctor Remulac" over and over again.   

       Since somebody references that in the post I'll point out, I'm not THAT Doctor Remulac. I'm doctorremulac3 because doctoremulac1 and doctorremulac2 were already taken.
doctorremulac3, Apr 27 2021
  

       //Set some additional qualifications like college education in related fields//   

       Some other criteria for disqualifying fields would be equally if not more important, anyone who's actually studied politics or law should be banned from ever holding high office, studying either is a strong indicator (potentially) of some very low moral standards you really shouldn't want even the slightest risk of anywhere near the levers of power ... Tony Blair studied law, which says it all really ... they should probably be banned from any particularly high civil service posts as well.
Skewed, Apr 27 2021
  

       // great idea //   

       [dr3],Thanks, but it's not original to me OR you - even if you posted yours without outside prompting. For my own part - including the "kicking and screaming" bit - I got it from Arthur C. Clarke's 1975 book "Imperial Earth" and I don't know if the idea was even originally his. I should have given credit in my earlier remark, here's the exact passage:   

       “For the last century, almost all top political appointments [on the planet Earth] had been made by random computer selection from the pool of individuals who had the necessary qualifications. It had taken the human race several thousand years to realize that there were some jobs that should never be given to the people who volunteered for them, especially if they showed too much enthusiasm. As one shrewd political commentator had remarked: 'We want a President who has to be carried screaming and kicking into the White House — but will then do the best job he possibly can, so that he’ll get time off for good behavior.'"
a1, Apr 27 2021
  

       Still a great idea whoever thought of it.   

       Seems like the general population (the only body I want given total control) suggests that idea from time to time. Oprah would supposedly get elected in a landslide for instance if we're to believe her publicist.   

       Now the downside to an actual democracy as opposed to a republic is everybody votes to fire all the nukes and have a nuclear war just because they don't like the way Putin parts his hair, but I think populations are like kids, you've got to trust them to learn by their mistakes and in the long run I trust them more than the self appointed leaders that have been the bane of the general population's existence for millennia.   

       I'd be curious to see polls of the population before all the great wars to see, before the killing started, who in country A really wanted to go start killing people in country B before they get sold on the idea by our glorious leaders. I could be wrong, people in Shitholistan might believe that their lives would be greatly enhanced if "those people" on the other side of the world could just be nuked into non-existence.   

       But I don't think so. I think most people just want to live their lives and be left alone. But eh, I could be wrong.
doctorremulac3, Apr 27 2021
  

       //in the long run I trust them more than the self appointed leaders//   

       Well they didn't vote in any of the lunatics leading Labour, the Liberals or the Greens as Prime Minister last election despite all the airtime those nutters got, a strong indication that the intelligence of crowds is still alive & kicking & the berks on TV telling us what they think we should think & who we should vote for were largely ignored by the adult majority in the UK.   

       So I'd agree by & large.
Skewed, Apr 27 2021
  

       Which is why we have a big push by some in this country to establish a one party system. The population have from time to time elected people the elites don't approve of and this must be stopped.   

       Interesting thing, when I talk to people who support having a totalitarian government with one un- opposed ruling body, they don't say that's not what they want, they just dive into defending the concept.
doctorremulac3, Apr 27 2021
  

       //Bright, capable functional adults don't aspire to be politicians//   

       that's at best a cliché
theircompetitor, Apr 27 2021
  

       OK, they don't USUALLY aspire to be politicians.   

       But I said that already.
doctorremulac3, Apr 27 2021
  

       //Yeah the questions are skewed//   

       I resemble that remark!   

       [Phones lawyers]   

       [Outlines the vicious slander against his name he just spotted]   

       [Listens to long monologue along the lines of 'well, if you will choose a handle like that']   

       [Hangs up halfway though]   

       I had nothing to do with it dammit!
Skewed, Apr 27 2021
  

       //who has to be carried screaming and kicking//   

       "Help! Help! I've been kidnapped."
<blindfold is removed/>
"Thank god you got here in time."
"Anything for you Mr President."
"President ?"
bigsleep, Apr 27 2021
  

       Somewhat related, I was wondering if, since every president we've had in my lifetime has had the opposition party want to put them in prison, we should just put presidents in prison automatically after their term. Save some time.   

       "Raise your right hand, do you solemnly swear etc.... and you do know you're going to prison in 4 years unless you're re-elected, in which case it'll be 8 right?" "I do." "Congratulations Mr President.".
doctorremulac3, Apr 27 2021
  

       That'd only really make any sense [doc] if the opposition had successfully had every president in your lifetime incarcerated after their term was up, instead of [pauses to consider] what has their success rate with that been to date? oh yes! I remember now, none, which does sort of make one wonder if they ever actually have a case at all when they start shouting.   

       Personally I've only ever shouted about jailing one prime minister in my lifetime, & I think the case really is pretty solid there, he wasn't the 'opposition' either, I actually voted for him, one of his terms anyway.
Skewed, Apr 27 2021
  

       //the opposition had successfully had every president in your lifetime incarcerated after their term was up//   

       With this one I think there's a good chance he'll be incinerated before his term is up.   

       Too much ?
bigsleep, Apr 27 2021
  

       UK (Boris) or US (Bidden)? .. seems a bit unlikely for either, unless the US one is doing stuff since he got in I've missed somewhere along the way?
Skewed, Apr 27 2021
  

       Skewed take a close look at bigsleep's words, incinerated != incarcerated - he's joking that Biden is old and might die.
zen_tom, Apr 27 2021
  

       [Facepalm] Oh yeah :)
Skewed, Apr 27 2021
  

       I did the same thing, took me a double-take before I realised.
zen_tom, Apr 27 2021
  

       see link [dr] et.al   

       There are per last count 519,682 politicians in the US. That's nearly 0.2% of the population. There's less than twice that many doctors.   

       That doesn't include union officials (also politicians), mobsters (some overlap there) and people running home owner associations. Or homecoming queens, I suppose.
theircompetitor, Apr 27 2021
  

       //if the opposition had successfully had every president in your lifetime incarcerated after their term was up// //oh yes! I remember now, none//   

       Well then, my idea solves that splendidly.   

       So we're in agreement, jail all politicians after their term is up, done! ... ohhh kay... next on the agenda, putting things on top of other things.   

       TC, maybe there's a solution to my hating politicians in there, make everybody the president. It'd be kind of like in Hitchiker's Guide when they solved the money crisis by declaring leaves to be currency. Everybody was rich overnight. So this way everybody is the most powerful person on Earth.   

       Ohhh...kay, we're making good progress here. Ooh, is it lunchtime already? Allright, we've solved enough problems for one day.
doctorremulac3, Apr 27 2021
  

       //Well then, my idea solves that splendidly// not what I was angling for of course but if you're sure it works why argue ;) & everyone's guilty of something after all so I guess we've just saved all the expense of a court case, maybe we could extend the idea to other members of the population & save even more?
Skewed, Apr 27 2021
  

       In the Bible -- yes, I'm an atheist -- in the Bible, the early prophets, and in particular Samuel, attempt to dissuade the Israelites against choosing a king, but ultimately Samuel gives in cause the lure of having someone else make your decisions is too great, plus there's Philistines that need to be dealt with. Saul of course is relatively promptly killed either directly or indirectly by David.   

       We get the government we deserve, and certainly the politicians we deserve.
theircompetitor, Apr 27 2021
  

       //maybe we could extend the idea to other members of the population & save even more?//   

       Sounds like a logistical nightmare. Can we just put the world on house arrest?   

       Okay, that problem's solved. We're cookin' here!   

       Ohh! Saves money on trials too!
doctorremulac3, Apr 27 2021
  

       So, just to sum up, everyone's president & under house arrest? everyone pays for their own ankle tag right? we wouldn't want that to be a drain on the public purse so soon after we saved all that money on court cases would we, just as well we invented the internet when we did or things could get difficult, we'll need to fast track the drone delivery thing though.
Skewed, Apr 27 2021
  

       This is getting very close to imprisoning all the humans in labour camps so they can work to feed the machines.
pocmloc, Apr 28 2021
  

       Not really, no herds in camps, individual & isolated in their homes, if anything there to give the machines purpose rather than 'feed' them, so more like Asimov's inhabitants of Solaria.
Skewed, Apr 28 2021
  

       //Sounds like a logistical nightmare//   

       Did you mean logical?
Skewed, Apr 28 2021
  

       Who said anything about not putting the machines in jail too?
doctorremulac3, Apr 28 2021
  

       Interesting philosophical point: if everyone and everything is 'in jail' then are they really in jail, or does the state of being 'in jail' only exist when there are some people and things not 'in jail' for them to contrast with?
hippo, Apr 28 2021
  

       Well, aren't we really ALL in jail? (Trying to sound philosophical without having a clue what that might mean, changes the subject to divert attention)   

       On another subject, how about that sports team or current event?
doctorremulac3, Apr 28 2021
  

       //that sports team or current event// - I saw that on the news last night - amazing!
hippo, Apr 28 2021
  

       I missed it, what happened? Did one of the sports teams win?
pocmloc, Apr 28 2021
  

       Yes, a tragic story in a way; both sports teams wanted to win, but the contest ended with only one of them winning. And then there was some news; several things happened yesterday, apparently.
hippo, Apr 28 2021
  

       That's amazing! Go the winners!
pocmloc, Apr 28 2021
  

       Yay teams!
doctorremulac3, Apr 28 2021
  
      
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