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Mods... in moderation.

Who watches the watchers?
  (+7, -8)
(+7, -8)
  [vote for,

Recently I have been banned from posting any comments on a site called imgur. As far as I can tell it was from using the word propaganda as it pertains to the... well, propaganda I see associated with how anyone refusing the covid vaccine is instantly labelled a Trump Supporter. As a Canadian I take offence at this blatant stereotyping. Trump can kiss my ass for all I care.
My posting of the originator of the rna vaccine also sharing my concerns and getting his video banned from facebook solidified my ban.

Others, not liking my opinion, have labelled me a cunt, retard, etc. etc. you name it.
Things which would normally have accounts frozen or banned yet it is I who have had my voice taken away.

Honestly I could give two shits to be banned if the reason were only legitimate.
Recently someone was banned for posting "chicken sandwich" because some mod found it derogatory. Swear to God... can't make this shit up, and I am sick of it.

These little power tripping nazi fuckers need a good slap upside the head and a re-education about what free speech really means.

To that end I propose an agency whereby disgruntled, yet fully within their rights, individuals such as myself have some way to state their claim before a board of unbiased judges and have these mods heads pulled from their asses.

I did not violate their terms.

Where is my avenue of recourse?

0oo https://0oo.li/inte...ice-important-ideas
The bigger issue is the controlled timelines of social networks: human attention, a limited resource, being taken away from a fair share of public attention. [Mindey, Aug 02 2021]

Subject Access Request (GDPR) https://ico.org.uk/...ect-access-request/
[zen_tom, Aug 02 2021]

For [doctorremulac3] https://centerforin...44667077.1545091225
It gets worse... [neutrinos_shadow, Aug 02 2021]

Death rates were higher in the 90s https://www.ons.gov...theukfrom1990to2020
when the pubs were open. [4and20, Aug 07 2021]

110k excess deaths https://elifescienc...9336/figures#tables
2020 [4and20, Aug 08 2021]

~80k Covid deaths, 2020 https://www.ons.gov...incharts/2020-12-18
The only time we include Scotland [4and20, Aug 08 2021]

Robin Hood https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BbyYr6L5xQM
now Covid Hood [xenzag, Aug 08 2021]

Xen’s support of “culling” the unfit is nothing new. https://www.ushmm.o...ion-of-the-disabled
[doctorremulac3, Aug 09 2021]

what not to do ... https://www.smbc-co...om/comic/charitable
... whether you're a moderator or a moderatee [pertinax, Aug 09 2021]

Anti-vaxxers like modern day lemmings https://www.rolling...vaccinated-1189072/
[xenzag, Aug 09 2021]

USA biggest creators of global warming https://www.vox.com...tes-china-emissions
[xenzag, Aug 09 2021]

China's greenhouse gas emissions vs America's https://www.cnbc.co...d-world-report.html
[doctorremulac3, Aug 09 2021]

Halfbakery Rage Pit idea Halfbakery_20Field_20of_20Honor
Got a mixed reaction. [doctorremulac3, Aug 09 2021]

Don't like it? Build your own. https://pics.me.me/...ayment-37455911.png
[Voice, Aug 10 2021]

The term 'brainwashed' is apparently flagged as fraudulent and deceptive content now. https://imgur.com/gallery/NkstekO
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, Aug 23 2021]

Morris-code Voting https://www.theywor..._rowley_regis/votes
Surreptitiously voting for this chap? [Frankx, Sep 02 2021]

Yep... https://imgur.com/gallery/J1TIiyt
they did. [2 fries shy of a happy meal, Sep 04 2021]


       I have lost a half dozen ancient Facebook accounts for posting "wrong" things, including, I think, a one line anti-Trump poemlet. And that's not even mentioning the sheer number of self-appointed moderator Nazis of Facebook groups who booted me before Facebook pulled the plug.   

       So...since Facebook and others now apparently confirm IDs, the moderators at the very least have lost their right to anonymity. Be a Nazi moderator and you'll be banned from moderating or joining other social media until you learn more about Nazis and other dictators.
4and20, Aug 02 2021

       My Facebook account was deleted without warning or explanation and I have written dozens of letters to Nick Clegg asking for an explanation without receiving a single reply. These organisations are arrogant dictatorships. I lost correspondance with several artist friends who are now dead through a combination of accident and illness but Facebook doesn't care. I have no idea why my account was deleted and Facebook won't tell me. There is no appeal. So that's it. 15 years of postings and messages gone, and Nick Clegg struts the Facebook stage like an arrogant turkey. Meanwhile, Trump who used the platform to organise an armed assault on democracy, will have his so called ban reviewed within 2 years. My account wasn't just banned. It was totally deleted. Good luck to all who have dealings with the likes of Facebook. It's a detestable organisation.
xenzag, Aug 02 2021

       I haven't interacted with Facebook or "mainstream" news in many years, and I'm better for it, aside from the rueful laughter when I think about where things are going. These days I get my news from Ron Unz and my social media from Gab. Trump won the 2020 election and Epstein didn't kill himself. Yes, sue Facebook but also exercise your 1st and 2nd amendment rights. We should all start wearing P100 masks and go back to normal immediately. War on terror is peace! Debt is freedom! Diversity is strength! Aaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaa
sninctown, Aug 02 2021

       ... choo?   

       Bless you.
pertinax, Aug 02 2021

       //I have been banned from posting any comments on a site//   

       Consider it an honour.   

       Who was it who said they would not want to be a member of any club that would permit them to join?
pocmloc, Aug 02 2021

       [Xenzag] I find that reprehensible. I would be madder than a wet wasp if that happened to me. My personal history and the history of many of my family and friends lie there within those walls of format. My fault for not thinking sometime in the future, it might all go poof.
blissmiss, Aug 02 2021

       + yes all this and more! Whilst I could give 2 shits about facebook or any internet site (except here of course) Our freedoms have been being extinguished for quite some time now. What I find much worse, is that I have also lost some old friends who actually believe all the propaganda nonsense that main stream media promotes and we have come to disagreements on these subjects and though I had thought *friendship* could outlast this, I was wrong. These folks have had their common sense blurred by the media machine and in some cases, totally obliterated.   

       I try to get as much alternative media as possible so I can make a well rounded decision that also agrees with my own beliefs. Maybe if these people didn’t blindly accept everything they hear, they could make better decisions, but one needs to search out the truth. This has become more difficult with the controllers controlling information. yes
xandram, Aug 02 2021

       Since Trump and Brexit leveraged creating politicised versions of the truth, it's become a political act to seek objectivity. Now the world is split, not just on political opinions, but on carefully arranged realities.   

       It is still possible to be objective, but not without raising allegations of bias from others. The world is broken, I don't know what to do about it, other than try to be kind to the folks who have been sucked into different whirlpools of subjective narrative. It's not their fault, but equally, it's not possible to have a conversation with someone who doesn't share a common reality. Now we can dip into pre- generated collections of fact-like pools that support any notion or idea we might come up with, the notion of "research" is no longer something we can do on the internet - too many people have written too much stuff, that's been collected and presented as truth to be able to rely only on the internet to find out if something is real or not. If you want to believe something, anything, you will find supporting "documentation" and a friendly community who will help you cement those beliefs - however whacky.   

       Now the backlash is coming, and the concept of a shared objective truth is being promoted, people don't like it. We're so used to the idea that "my truth" is the only truth possible, and because there are so many channels pandering to supporting every possible truth out there (paid for by clicks) it's easy for anyone to believe whatever they want. And be fed "evidence" to support their viewpoint.   

       It's difficult, near impossible to legislate, or write policy to enforce an objective, shared truth - and doing so will always lead to calls of censorship. Even trying to do so hands a great deal of power into the hands of people who are likely unfit to wield it. But in a broken world where no such objectivity seemingly exists anymore, how can you even start? Should you even try?   

       I'm not entirely sure you can (though I still think it's something we should attempt - on a moral basis - the truth remains important) which leads us all to a future where different cultural or belief-system bubbles each have their own "social-network" infrastructures, and each can quietly ignore one another, living in entirely different world-views. Crossing from one to another would be increasingly difficult, which is already in evidence today as people's friendships, especially those formed before these cultural lines were drawn are fractured along the new reality's fault-lines - fall apart. So far, Facebook remains a single, monolithic thing - but in the future, it will split or become pro one group or another, with some alt- Facebook emerging to cater for people who believe xyz instead of abc.   

       The only real personal solution seems to be to disengage altogether from this distorted internet hall of mirrors. People in real life are much more rational, and less stupid than they appear to be online. I find it far less stressful dealing with real people, rather than the nonsense many of them say online. When people talk online, 9 times out of 10, they're not talking to you any longer, they're talking to an image they have of what cultural tribe you belong to. It's all about preserving an identity. Only most of the identities that have been curated, that form the basis of these cultural bubbles are almost entirely artificial, algorithmically created.   

       I try to build my internal model of what people are really like, and a sense of what they really believe based on face-to-face interactions, rather than online ones. Because building an online model of humans, based on the polarised, tribal and manipulated content they repeat to one another is really, really scary. Thankfully, I do believe that distorted outlook is a product of the internet, and not rooted in any kind of objective reality. But that's probably my [mainstream-media/ fake-news/elitist conspiracy/ marxist/antifa/Communist/ Fascist/Racial] bias showing through (delete as appropriate).   

       But, other than to sympathise, I don't think this adds to the conversation (since nothing can) and, since this is the halfbakery, I'd add my second [marked-for-deletion] since as it stands, this doesn't fit with the site's main and formally stated thrust and purpose. Which, perhaps is another possible solution to the unsolvable problem outlined above. If we focus on non-political things, like inventions, life and the real world - maybe we can overcome the unwelcome impositions of a distorted, overly politicised, manipulated internet and come together in a shared, objective way that yields a worthwhile set of outputs.
zen_tom, Aug 02 2021

       Ignoring for a moment the "idea vs commentary" of this post, (this is also a current event discussion site) I'm seeing this is one of those rare Venn diagram moments in society where all stripes of the political spectrum are finding points of agreement, namely, let the people have their say, including those who disagree with those people.   

       The cure for so called "improper speech" is rebuttal, and the cure for people labeling themselves as the ones who will determine what is and what isn't improper speech is them being called out for the totalitarian thugs they are.
doctorremulac3, Aug 02 2021

       //some cheese with your whine?//   

       Yes. Camembert please.   

       //The only real personal solution seems to be to disengage altogether from this distorted internet hall of mirrors.//   

       Ah but there's the rub. That seems to be the goal. To ostracize rational people into just going away and letting the little nazis have free reign of the net.
I don't know what the answer is either but this trend I see sickens me.

       Don't agree with: [mark-for-deletion] /advocacy This isn’t a HB idea, it’s a personal gripe]   

       There is a perfectly good idea here: ie a proposal for "an agency whereby disgruntled, yet fully within their rights, individuals such as myself have some way to state their claim before a board of unbiased judges"   

       The treatment I received (for example) by Facebook would not be legal for any other organisation. My data was simply deleted without warning or explanation and there is no appeal or redress. Were I to live in Atherton, where Clegg has his 7 million dollar house, I would sell "Fuck Weasel Words Clegg " T shirts and badges.
xenzag, Aug 02 2021

       I tried that route re data protection. Facebook simply don't respond to anything or anybody.
xenzag, Aug 02 2021

       The houses in Atherton pretty much all have gated walls around them.
sninctown, Aug 02 2021

       The data is supposedly protected but data protection were not able to help me any way. Facebook simply don't respond.
xenzag, Aug 02 2021

       //The houses in Atherton pretty much all have gated walls around them// Perfect canvases.
xenzag, Aug 02 2021

       My understanding of EU law is that you have data protection, but you don't have any data protection when it comes to Facebook who can do what they want with your data, including deleting it. Facebook are an arrogant organisation with billions of dollars in the bank to pay for any legal battle they may face with anyone. They are totally above the law. They operate in Europe out of Ireland which acts as their tax haven. They are untouchable. They can do as they please and this is exactly what they do.
xenzag, Aug 02 2021

       Well I would have thought that the messages I wrote and their replies, and all the photographs I took and posted were all my personal data? Facebook deleted the lot.
xenzag, Aug 02 2021

       As I said, I've already been down that road and no one can make Facebook do anything, despite EU data protection laws. They simply don't respond.
xenzag, Aug 02 2021

       [xenzag] it might be worth submitting a Subject Access Request(SAR) they are legally obliged to show you all and every record they have associated with you. And that should include any archives/backups they might maintain. If they made a decision based on some data that affected your life, they are legally bound to be able to explain that decision, along with any personal information they used to support it. GDPR gives the company 30 days to respond (at the very least, acknowledge the request) if they don't they've broken the law (again).
zen_tom, Aug 02 2021

       //"totalitarian thugs" ... "little nazis"   

       Is that every moderator who ever told you to take it elsewhere? Because that would include [jutta], on occasion.//   

       Jutta isn't a moderator though. Halfbakery is her baby and 'is' a users recourse should one of her mods acted like a little totalitarian nazi thug.   

       It's not as if [xen] can just send an email off to Zuckerberg and have him look into things now is it?   

       If social media employees were using their wits, they could be like members of some criminal organizations who end up doing consulting work in law enforcement. How much would people pay to get their accounts back anyway?
4and20, Aug 02 2021

       [a1], if you're going to insult other halfbakers, it helps if 1. the insults are funny and 2. you know what you're talking about. Unfortunately that's not what I'm seeing here.
sninctown, Aug 02 2021

       a1, do you know of ANY cases where moderators were unfairly biased or downright wrong in their blocking of content? Let's not call them Nazis, let's tone it down a bit and call them Naughties. Do you think there are cases where moderators are tending to act a little like Naughties?
doctorremulac3, Aug 02 2021

       It's only a matter of time before technocratic virtual monopolies start controlling what appears on the net. Yes at the moment you can more or less put up anything you want somewhere on the net, but who will see it? Will it even show up in Google? The fact that "fringe" internet sites will be ignored isn't a conspiracy for now, but just the laziness and conformity of the average human mind.   

       But when the big boys start getting preferred network access, while government officials like Biden keep pressing them to censor content? What will be left of alternative viewpoints?
4and20, Aug 02 2021

       //thugs handy to delete this bullshit?//   

       Let's just say that I'm glad you are not one. This idea is legit.
People providing a service should be accountable for their actions and if a user has not violated any terms set by the site then abusing one's privilege as a moderator should be something able to be looked into.
Facing one's accuser and all that jazz is the cornerstone of justice.
That's not a rant, it's just the truth.

       Most people are generally good.
Unfortunately, on the internet (as also in business) the shit tends to rise to the top. It has given a place for the annoying to loudly proclaim their view, and the weary masses (seeing more loud annoying than good & proper) soak it up.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
We don't need tougher laws or harsher penalties; we need BETTER PEOPLE.
(By "shit" I mean the people creating the imbalance of power, not ordinary genuine people like [2 fries shy of a happy meal] and [xenzag] who get treated like a number.)
neutrinos_shadow, Aug 02 2021

       Agree 100%. I'm also surprised at how easy it has been for an ordinary person like me to humiliate someone like Nick Clegg into total silence with some simple questions.
xenzag, Aug 02 2021

       //If it's imgur, facebook, or any privately owned system - they make it pretty clear in their terms of service and can run their own systems how they want. If you don't like them - don't use them.//   

       Straw man alert. Never mentioned anything about their rights to do so which aren't in question, they're selling a product, and as a consumer of that product I get to critique it. If Facebook or Twitter or a restaurant says "Tough shit, this is our product, take it or leave it." my response is going to be "I'll leave it because your product is shit." Which I do by the way.   

       If I go to a forum where ideally ideas can be freely discussed and debated, I don't want some idiot with a degree in Sociological Sociology Of Sociologic Socialist Socialistics banning a discussion between actual medical doctors about the usage of therapeutics, good and bad, regarding a particular disease, and this sort of thing happens.
doctorremulac3, Aug 02 2021

       [4and20]; basically, the internet is already broken beyond repair. Between the hackers & scammers on one side, and the loud minority conspiracy/anti-everything on the other, the internet has become a place to avoid. Obviously, there are "safe" places (like this), but they are few & far between these days.
I always remember when I read about Google and the "Don't Be Evil" they (apparently) had up on the wall of their HQ. Until they took it down; what does that tell you about the mindset of the management?
I forsee a time when there will be multiple, entirely (physically) independent internets, operated by governments, conglomerates or corporations, & difficultly accessing more than one. It will be a sad day.
neutrinos_shadow, Aug 02 2021

       [doctorremulac3]; see linky. It's not just online that idiots shut down experts.
neutrinos_shadow, Aug 02 2021

       //I'll echo our restaurant analogy here - if someone doesn't like the service they can leave.//   

       If I don't like the service at a restaurant I can speak to a manger about the person serving me.   

       Nutrino, yea, there's people getting shut down from all sides. I don't like that.
doctorremulac3, Aug 02 2021

       Well, voicing complaints against a private company might not necessarily be a total waste of time. The advertisers who monetize these companies may want to reach the most potential customers and if enough people are getting pissed off and dropping off the site that might impact their bottom line. Here’s the deal with that though. I think a lot of social media based advertising is way overvalued and a buddy of mine came up with a great conspiracy theory. What if Trump was driving up their operation costs at Twitter far more than the revenue it was bringing in could justify? True or not I give points for creative “what if’s”.   

       I love conspiracy theories, problem is they all suck. I was very heartbroken that I (thought) I came up with an original conspiracy theory that was both plausible and interesting, that the Russians started the hoax about the US Moon landing being staged. First evidence I presented is that the MAJORITY of Russians thought the Moon landing was a hoax. If Russians got any information it was all Kremlin and KGB approved, so there's exhibit A. Then the first book that came out saying it was a hoax was titled "We Never Went to the Moon: America's Thirty Billion Dollar Swindle" which copied Russia's official party line before the Soviet Union fell that this was a 30 billion dollar waste of money accompanied by the lie that the Russians had never wanted to go to the Moon and had no lunar program. (Dropped after the Soviet Union fall where they actually put their lunar lander on display.) Anyway, did some further web searching and found out someone had already proposed that.   

       I do hope to get a conspiracy theory out that that catches on someday but somebody beat me to that one. The rules are simple, it would have to be 1- interesting, 2- plausible and 3- controversial. My Moon landing hoax hoax had all that. Dammit.
doctorremulac3, Aug 02 2021

       //To ostracize rational people into just going away //   

       That's the problem. EVERYONE sees themselves as the 'rational person'. No matter what the issue.
AusCan531, Aug 03 2021

       //but how far do you want to torture this analogy?//   

       It's your shitty analogy. How far would you like it tortured?   

       // In this scenario I picture you more as an Andy Capp kind of drunkard, getting kicked out of pubs or off the rugby field for brawling. Try not to fall into the canal as you stagger home.//   

       I have no control over your delusions. They are your own.   

       //EVERYONE sees themselves as the 'rational person'. No matter what the issue.//   

       Ah! but that can be measured by an individuals ability to even listen to a cogent argument with the possibility of having their mind changed by convincing enough evidence.
Silencing anything contrary to your own opinion may as well be the definition of of non-rational.

       Should our social media platforms be allowed to be non-rational?
I vote no.
All in favour?...

       Ah... my bad. Either way, I expect service.   

       //“no shirt, no shoes, no service? “ Or one that says “we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone?”//   

       I agreed to one of those and wouldn't have stepped foot in the other in the first place.   

       I got my shirt, I got my shoes, I just want the service.
I did not violate their rights and conditions... they did.

       ...or rather one of their little nazi mods did.   

       There are things a company can can do that, while legal, are still despicable.   

       And I didn’t “drag” that analogy in, I let it fly in like an avenging angel on wings of truth, blazing away at injustice with dual flamethrowers of insight and precision analysis.   

       My main problem is the anti science misinformation they’ve been propagating. This weird, inexplicable war against therapeutics. ALL therapeutics in the treatment of Covid victims, including even those in clinical trials can’t even be discussed by doctors without them getting banned. And as far as I know, there are no medical professionals involved with this “oversight”, just a bunch of computer geeks who decided that this disease is the only one in history that has no possibility of treatment, maybe because the hated bad orange man once mentioned the word therapeutics, I don't know. I’m pro vaccine and supportive of other treatments to help patients, but if you even discuss other treatments, even one that's been approved by the FDA, you get kicked off the platform. This is disgusting irrational behavior. Can't even talk about ongoing clinical trials? Talk about anti science superstitious lunacy.   

       And once Stalinist style speech suppression is rampant, think liberals are safe? Might ask Xenzag about that. Yea, they can do it, but just because it's legal does't mean it's right.   

       But it's okay, let's burn books, ban speech and censor communication between individuals. Yea, doing that has caused problems in the past but it's okay this time because the people doing it are really really rich.
doctorremulac3, Aug 03 2021

       // Go read their terms of service. It’s not as pithy as “we reserve the right to refuse service to anybody” but in long wordy form they say exactly that.//   

       Well bully for them.
So... we've all allowed our social media platforms to be non rational then is what you're saying.
I have not been banned from accessing the site... I am just no longer allowed to post either content or replies to content after having defied none of their terms and agreements... and you're fine with this.

       Capitalism at its finest and a swift fuck-you to whoever doesn't conform.   

       nope... no propaganda there at all   

       {Tiptoes in}   

       {Leaves a box of tissues on the table for wiping up the flecks of spittle}   

       {Tiptoes out}
pertinax, Aug 03 2021

       Such is the tragedy of imperfect filtering. Sometimes in attempting to clean out swastikas and pepe frogs pictures of tree frogs and spiders get the boot as well. Therapeutics lives in the fringe and has a large portion that is bullshit even if some is not. 2 fries and xenzag seem to spend their entire existence in some fringe or another, and so when they get caught up in the hypersensitivity by companies who are trying to just not pull the wrong wire in a world of self-created social media time bombs, they're among the first to go.
RayfordSteele, Aug 03 2021

       I have no idea what that means. All I know is the messages I exchanged with my friends are all gone. I fail to see what my private messages have got to do with Facebook? In 3 cases the people I was talking to are now deceased. Two were quite well respected artists and the ideas we talked over, along with the images we shared are all gone and no one can tell me why. Natural justice tells me this is unacceptable, but there is nothing I can do about it, nor can anyone else.
xenzag, Aug 03 2021

       I just don't understand why adults, intelligent adults, can't be civil to one another, even if they disagree.   

       [a1], by fueling this fire with your insults and yammering, you have become exactly what you have labeled my friends 2 fries and xenzag, as being. No difference. This entire page is nothing more than you trying to be right and attempting to make them appear wrong.   

       If you have an opinion, state it and defend it. That doesn't require name-calling. It just doesn't. If you don't have a funny or informative, or at the very least civil comment, move along. NO ONE IS MAKING YOU USE THIS FORUM. Get it, got it, good.   

       Please, I beg you, stick to the idea or comment. Do not start the name calling. It's childish. No wonder so few people still come here. It's not a kind place to be.
blissmiss, Aug 03 2021

       Not sure why all the rage over somebody not liking a product, but I take umbrage with a service that distributes misinformation, especially when it's regarding something important that might not only affect people, it might get them killed.   

       If somebody goes to the hospital and refuses treatment because Twitter, with all their medical expertise. banned discussion about an FDA approved therapeutic and they die, that's something that should be addressed, and those wanting to address it are hardly crybabies or stupid for wanting to do so.
doctorremulac3, Aug 03 2021

       //If somebody goes to the hospital and refuses treatment because Twitter, with all their medical expertise. banned discussion about an FDA approved therapeutic and they die, that's something that should be addressed, and those wanting to address it are hardly crybabies or stupid for wanting to do so.//   

       No, but equally if someone else started injecting weedkiller, due to a different post with an equivalent amount of weight, what about then?   

       The problem here is everyone thinks they're right, and sometimes, the answers aren't simple.   

       However, often peddlers of misinformation will have zero qualms about making assertions with full confidence - and these are the ones that rise to the top of the pile.   

       What do you do if your pool of information is so easily polluted? There needs to be some mechanism for skimming the worst of the lies off the top - in order to save lives - but without perfect knowledge - and let's be frank - perfect knowledge does not exist, you can't do that without skimming off some of the good stuff.   

       So what do you do? Whatever you choose, some people will die as a result.   

       (Addendum - the question was rhetorical - but the answer is normally to take a judgement call that aims to minimise the negative effects of your policy - sometimes that means doing or saying things that aren't strictly accurate 100% of the time, and depending on your audience, you might need to boost the certainty of your message beyond the bounds of your actual level of certainty, otherwise they might feel it's not clear or strong enough to be worth following)   

       (Addendum II - all this reminds me of Churchill and Coventry)
zen_tom, Aug 03 2021

       I'm sure, but as a story (i.e. a shortcut or headline pointing to a packaged message delivery) about the difficulties involved in setting policy, its function here seems decent enough.
zen_tom, Aug 03 2021

       //but equally if someone else started injecting weedkiller, due to a different post with an equivalent amount of weight, what about then?//   

       Good point, but if I'm going to undertake that job, discerning fact from fiction as Twitter and Facebook certainly have, I'm going to be careful about at least trying to get correct information out there and clearly Twitter and Facebook haven't done their due diligence in this regard.
doctorremulac3, Aug 03 2021

       //2fries and others who opened with profanity and branding people & companies as nazis, thugs, tyrants, dictatorships, etc.//   

       Since when are any of those words considered blasphemous or obscene?
I don't think profanity means what you think it does.

       Regardless, you will see a change in people's attitudes towards platforms which think of them as bugs in their system. Only the brainwashed will be left with a few holdouts waiting to be descended on with torches and pitchforks.   

       Won't those be fun times kids?
Just like the good old days again.

       Why... almost as if these things are cyclic in nature and the winners write history so each subsequent generation gets blindsided because they are doomed to repeat the history which has been scrubbed.   

       aaaaaanyway. Rational good, non-rational bad m'kay?   

       Still have access... just no voice.   

       There’s a whole body of law regarding speech in public forums, the press, the airwaves etc, that I’m not super familiar with, so this is just my opinion on what's right and wrong, but to look at the pub analogy again:   

       1- Are the people getting shouted down doctors discussing scientific peer review of clinical trials of drugs that have real impact on life and death situations? To be clear, maybe they're discussing how they might not work, but they're working in good faith to get to the truth.   

       2- Is the government getting involved with this pub telling the owner to kick anybody out who MAY EVEN APPEAR IN THEIR OPINION to be saying anything against the government party line?   

       3- Does private ownership of this pub justify from a moral, (not legal) position any of these actions?   

       4- If the pub does all the above is there some rule saying we can't say “This pub sucks!”?   

       I want to hear all sides of any given issue and I'll do my best to stand against anybody who stands in opposition to that. And if an organization decides to by tyrannical in their control of freedom of expression that passes through their business, I'm going to say that sucks. Yes they can say "Tough luck, go someplace else." but I'm going to say "Good, then hand over your "neutral forum" legal protection that news outlets don't benefit from.   

       If you don't have responsibility for what's said on your site, great. It was understood from the inception of the internet that the sheer volume of social site postings would prevent complete overview like you'd have in a newspaper so it’s my understanding that they have some measure of legal protection from stuff people post on their forums. A news agency however that says the best way to treat a headache is to hit your head with a hammer is going to get sued.   

       So Twitter, Facebook etc, are you a neutral forum or not? Currently you don't have responsibility for content posted on your site because you've declared you have no practical overview, but if you're now are saying you do, let's review your immunity from prosecution for harm caused by content posted on your forum. I think there’s an ongoing legal debate about how and when laws regarding the press should be applied to open public internet forums. Some say they should be more regulated by the entity, some say they should be neutral. I’d say what we’re doing now is pretty workable, real crazy stuff gets taken down by the public who tags it as improper, which is fine, but for stuff where there’s controversy they’re just tagging it with opposing views, which I think is also fine.   

       So to get back to beating the pub analogy to death, (hopefully) as long as there’s a pub across the street I can go to, and if I can criticize the first pub, that’s fine. If all the pubs get together and start saying people who say the Earth is round need to be kicked out because the government says the Earth is flat, I have a problem with that.
doctorremulac3, Aug 07 2021

       //Do you keep going back to that place to drink in stony silence?//   

       Well... to use your even shittier analogy, if a waiter, (not the owner) comes over and slaps a piece of duct tape over my mouth that waiter would likely be flat on his back in a few seconds and I would be well within my rights to put him there for daring to touch me.   

       I'll say it again, these sites need regulation or we have handed them our freedom of speech as I violated none of their terms or conditions.
Since they 'did' arbitrarily violate our agreement there should be consequences for the individual who breaks their rules.

       That individual is not me.
I get that you think that they have the right. I just think you are wrong.
That they have given themselves this right and you defend it means you are both part of a much larger problem that needs to be dealt with, namely totalitarianism.

       Oop, there I go using profanity again.   

       It is probably morally wrong to do so in some way, but I am going to dip a pinky toe into the actual debate. I am generally in favor of vaccines, sufficiently tested, and honestly, you'd be hard pressed to find vaccines more generally tested than the ones being used against COVID, although I have been spending time in medically and politically unsafe countries, unable to get vaccinated without a lot of bothersome effort. So I don't know what I'd do if a vaccination center were just down the street.   

       But look at this [link]. Can someone in the UK tell us how it is that preliminary death rates for 2020 have been lower than the entire 1990s, going into 2003? Yes, deaths from cancer and heart disease have been going down, but shouldn't we have stopped everything to fight those sooner?
4and20, Aug 07 2021

       4’s post makes my point. He’s just asking some questions that I’d be interested to look into myself. Should he be banned? The original post being discussed was about one person on the 3 man team who discovered the technology for this vaccine being banned for questioning aspects of its implementation. Could he be wrong? Sure, but if anybody’s got credentials to question or critique usage of vaccines I’d think it’s one of the guys who invented the technology. I’d like to review the credentials of whoever banned him.
doctorremulac3, Aug 07 2021

       [4and20] That’s a very interesting question. The general answer is that there are a lot of traps you have to watch out for in statistics. The more specific answer is that you have to define what “death rate” means. So in the link you provided, the actual number of deaths for 2020 is higher than for any year in the 1990’s but the number of deaths per 100,000 is lower. However both of these may not mean very much because the number of deaths you *expect* in any year is a function of the birthdate profile (and immigration/emigration profile) over the last 100 (approximately) years. A better approach would be to take these profiles, plus standard actuarial tables giving the likelihood of people at every age dying and to calculate the number of expected deaths - and then to compare this with the actual deaths.
hippo, Aug 07 2021

       You do understand that merely pointing out that "THE" leading expert on RNA vaccines is being shut up also got me silenced?
You 'do' see the trend here yes?

       If you are good with that then, like I said, you are part of the problem.   


       No theories, actual facts we are no longer allowed to utter.   

       So you 'are' good with it then.   

       I've been a member of IMGUR for more than a decade,
(Glorious status I'll have you know... I know, thank you, thank you, oh stop with the flattery, please you're too kind, I'm blushing),
I was not off topic as it was yet another fully sanctioned attack on anti-vaxers but contributing facts to an ongoing conversation and specifically my contribution to that discussion was dangerous enough that I was forced to stop contributing without notice or even informed whether I've been permanently silenced or not.

       Momma always said; "Assholes is as assholes does."   

       Last time this happened on the original visual snow website that was about to close from abuse I stepped up and became an admin so that the assholes could sling their shit at me instead of the previous admin and mods something like eleven years ago.   

       There has not been an account deletion in all this time.   

       Water off a ducks back if you want to dig up my past. WTF do I care if you post my past mugshots on line? etc.   

       Does this mugshot make me look fat?   

       // calculate the number of expected deaths //   

       I grant you that raw deaths are more critical than most population adjusted numbers. I've always appreciated, for example, how the French report the total number of PEOPLE who are unemployed, not the percentage. So no interest in minimizing individual deaths...   

       It's still interesting that deaths in excess of expected has been quite a bit lower than expected in the UK, 2020. A new study puts excess deaths in the UK, 2020 at 110,000 [link]. Some 80,000 of those deaths may have been COVID related [link], which, by definition, would usually be unexpected.   

       Edit: Unless I'm reading that linked table wrong, there were 20,000 fewer excess deaths in the UK than the total number of deaths from all causes.
4and20, Aug 08 2021

       [4 and 20] My point was that I don’t think you can tell from that table what the excess death rate is or what the number of ‘expected’ deaths is. For example if we imagine a world in which everyone dies of natural causes at an age of 80. In this world, the expected death rate would be driven by the birth rate 80 years ago and the rates of immigration and emigration over the last 80 years. Our world isn’t as simple as this, but the argument is still valid; you need to know the probability of dying at any age, and the age profile of the whole country in order to start working out out.
hippo, Aug 08 2021

       Facts picked and chosen, stitched together, and placed out of whole contexts to sell a narrative make for convincing half-truths.
RayfordSteele, Aug 08 2021

       [a1] I have told you before that, officially and in all public communications with the masses, "there is no conspiracy".   

       Only level 5c operatives and above have the necessary authorisation to spread conspiracy related disinformation.
pocmloc, Aug 08 2021

       //Sounds like you're painting yourself a martyr for not banning people.//   

       Not at all. As soon as the trolls realized I'm totally impervious to shit-flinging, as [a1] is learning, it just stopped
I haven't been given any reason to ban anyone since I stepped up as admin, not that I wouldn't.

       //our global conspiracy to make everyone wear a mask, get vaccinated, and drink fluoridated water.//   

Voice, Aug 08 2021

       Actually the plan is to get rid of the dead wood that's easily identified by a refusal to wear a mask and get vaccinated. Covid simply takes care of the cull. It's working out very well, especially in America's "Neanderthal States" like Florida, and Alabama. The rest of the plan involves a free journey (in a replica of Noah's Ark of course) to finally prove the earth is flat and global warming is a hoax.
xenzag, Aug 08 2021

       More genocidal fantasies about dead Americans eh xen? So how would you celebrate the millions of dead people? Is there a different celebration for the dead children? Maybe a little more upbeat dance? Would you laugh at the weeping people cradling the lifeless bodies of their loved ones in their arms? I'm genuinely curious, what's it like to be so devoid of humanity that you celebrate and fantasize about the idea of millions of people dying?
doctorremulac3, Aug 08 2021

       The humourless are especially vulnerable.
xenzag, Aug 08 2021

       No, I understand you think millions of people dying is funny, you already said that. Thankfully I'm immune to psycho mass murder fantasy humor.
doctorremulac3, Aug 08 2021

       //It's working out very well// Very well, carry on then. Either you're right and there will be a culling or you're wrong and nothing will happen. So far it's the latter, but maybe if you start using the rest of the Greek alphabet things will go more smoothly. Do we have a Lambda variant yet?
Voice, Aug 08 2021

       That's next, and they won't be able to test for that variant either, but you could have it and not know it, so if you get fully vaccinated you will be allowed to travel and spread the virus with impunity while blaming anti-vax Trump-supporting conspiracy-theorists, who won't be allowed to travel, for all of the woes of the planet.   

       Sung to the tune of Robin Hood (link)
Covid Hood, Covid Hood culling through the glen,
Covid Hood, Covid Hood culling through the glen,
Feared by the bad, loved by the good, Covid Hood, Covid Hood.
xenzag, Aug 08 2021

       Vaxer-Man, Vaxer-Man,
Forcing every anti-vaxers hand.
Floods the web,
buys all the lies.
Hate and scream and propagandize.

       Look out!
There goes the Vaxer-Man.

       Sung to the tune of whatever pops into your head first.   

       Sorry xen, your concept of “culling” the unfit is well baked. (link)
doctorremulac3, Aug 09 2021

       Hahaha.... the anti-vaccers cull themselves, like the mythical lemmings created by Disney. (link) They remind me of those who burn even more oil and coal in desperation to quell the effects of global warming. Wake up! Your house is on fire! Nobody tells me what to do. Turn up the airconditioning.
xenzag, Aug 09 2021

       I get that, and you think that's great. You think thousand of people dying is desirable and funny because it's "culling" the herd of undesirables.   

       Hitler would be proud.   

       And your scathingly hateful, xenophobic anti American bullshit is truly disgusting. Obviously the xen in your moniker comes from xenophobe.   

       Maybe we stick with putting creative stuff on this forum and leaving out all the vile hate eh?
doctorremulac3, Aug 09 2021

       Multiple millions have died and many more will succumb to the effects of global warming, a large percentage of which was, and is created by America. So when it comes to mass exterminations, few countries outside of China can match America's effects on the entire planet. See UN report on global warming issued today. You might want to reflect on that. Many anti vaxxers are also global warming deniers, so join the dots.
xenzag, Aug 09 2021

       The black and hispanic communities have much more distrust of the vaccine and a corresponding much lower rate of vaccination and resulting death than the white and asian communities. You think that's good and funny? I think it's a tragedy.   

       I try to get people to take the vaccine when given the opportunity and I don't do it by saying "Good, die, the world will be better off without you.".   

       And rather than disavowing your celebration of mass deaths of American citizens you double down with your reason for that celebration. It'll help global warming.   

       The first self-sustaining nuclear chain reaction occured at the University of Chicago and those evil Americans created the first nuclear power plant in 1951, an important tool in the fight against global warming. Implementing solutions other than genocide might be a good way to approach the problems we all face.
doctorremulac3, Aug 09 2021

       Fights like these are one good reason why we don't post this stuff. Can we all get back to our nonproductive inventions?
RayfordSteele, Aug 09 2021

       Yes, please.
doctorremulac3, Aug 09 2021

       I already have posted 1,492 halfbaked ideas here, and have never stopped. That doesn't mean that I won't throw the odd hand grenade into the soup bowl. It's just a pity that Max and 8th are no longer here to share my humour and ability to make the fish rise to the bait as we always mutually did. It's part of why I'm here. Unless you stir the shit, it skins over and forms a crust. I'll review my entire presence when I reach idea 1,500.   

       Meanwhile as regards nuclear power: from wikipedia
"On June 27, 1954, the world's first nuclear power station to generate electricity for a power grid, the Obninsk Nuclear Power Plant, started operations in Obninsk of the Soviet Union. The world's first full scale power station, Calder Hall in the United Kingdom, opened on October 17, 1956.

       Also, the last link is one of many verifying that the USA is the country most responsible for global warming causing emissions on the entire planet.
xenzag, Aug 09 2021

       The first man made nuclear reactor, the Chicago Pile-1, achieved criticality on December 2, 1942. I think the Americans should probably get a footnote in history for inventing these things.   

       So are you changing your stance on genocide? It's now just a joke to get the fish to rise to the top so you can club them over the head? Why would you want to do that?   

       And that's the first contention I've ever seen that China is less polluting than the US. One source says:   

       "China's greenhouse gas emissions in 2019 exceeded those of the U.S. and other developed nations combined, according to research published Thursday by Rhodium Group. China is now responsible for more than 27% of total global emissions. The U.S., the world's second- highest emitter, accounts for 11% of the global total."   

       You getting along with 8th is a pretty ambitious rewrite of history, but how about turning the bile down a notch eh? I'll start. If you want to discuss solutions to global warming and this global pandemic, great. If you just want to get attention by saying nasty stuff, making jokes about how funny it is to have lots of Americans die, well, that's just nasty, childish and boring.
doctorremulac3, Aug 09 2021

       Xen, you're a very creative person, I like a lot of your ideas, but this hateful stuff against my beloved country and its people is below you. How about offering up ideas in the spirit of kindness and humanity? Debate is good, unbridled hate is counter productive.   

       Just a thought. Take it or leave it.
doctorremulac3, Aug 09 2021

       In counterpoint, this place was highly creative and had very many more users before people decided that 'stirring the pot' was a necessary feature to be strived for. I was there. People tended to get huffy and leave and do things like delete their account. It doesn't add to the environment. Nobody grows flowers in a war zone.
RayfordSteele, Aug 09 2021

       You say people are "funny" to have a problem with somebody making light of, and even celebrating, massive deaths in their, or anybody's country yet you take umbrage to the point of rage over somebody being unhappy with some website?   

       Here's a crazy idea, (for the third time) how about we get back to posting wacky ideas and all turn the asshole dial down a bit.   

       Here's I'll go first. (click) There, it's off. Now let's all try be nice to each other. And we can skip the jokes about "You turned it the wrong way." etc. Being nice. It's a great concept.   

       Maybe we need a "Halfbakery Rage Pit" where people just gather to vent and even rage against each other. I've suggested something like that before but it caused great outrage. Ironically.   

       So a1? I'll just say, very thought provoking post on the war gardens thing. Thank you.
doctorremulac3, Aug 09 2021

       Well, not to get into a debate about it, but the proposal as I read it was described towards the end, having a board of impartial judges he could go before to appeal his getting banned so maybe he could have written it more clearly.   

       But in my opinion it's not a big deal even if somebody posts an idea that's just a rant. I've never put up a dreaded MFD in the almost 20 years I've been coming here because personally I just don't care, but some people do, and that's fine.   

       Sometimes discussions get interesting even if they're started from, strickly speaking, non-idea ideas. (although this one was to have a board of appeals on these sites) I thought the concept of private company censorship was kind of worthy of discussion but if it just turns into a rage party it gets pretty boring pretty quick. And if somebody starts celebrating the deaths of thousands of people, no matter where they're from, I'm going to have a problem with that, especially when they double down by listing reasons they should all be dead.   

       Guess I'm funny that way.
doctorremulac3, Aug 09 2021

       Waiter, there's a hand grenade in my soup.
pertinax, Aug 09 2021

       //I've been saying THAT for a over week.//   

       Technically you've been flinging shit at me for over a week and marking my perfectly reasonable idea for deletion but hey, you take the high road, it's all yours.   

       That idea, in case you've forgotten, is to have nonpartisan regulation of social media so that their power has checks and balances against abuse of power to ensure freedom of speech.
This seems to grate on you... so, tell me about your mother.

       I am extremely reasonable [a1]. One of very few people I've met who have the ability to remain open minded enough to admit when they are wrong.   

       -Insulting me is not proving me wrong.
-Speaking about me instead of to me as though I am not in the room is not proving me wrong.
-Your first MFD was seen, so re-posting it is not proving me wrong.

       So prove me wrong.   

       //It’s not even fun to make fun of you anymore//   

       See how that works?   

       Give it a rest, barbecue sauce boy. I hearby declare blissy the winner of this pissing contest.
RayfordSteele, Aug 10 2021

       One tee many martoonies a1? That’s some pretty disjointed rambling ranting, complete with a death threat no less.   

       Remember what I said about turning down the asshole knob? Go ahead and dial yours back to 11 for starters, see if it helps you calm down a bit.   

       I tried being nice to you but can’t offer an olive branch to someone whose already got a stick up their ass I guess.   

       And it’s not appropriate to even joke about murdering members of this or any other public forum. Go sleep it off.
doctorremulac3, Aug 10 2021

       Don't do that. Your opinion is as valid as anybody else's... just mine included.   

       Hey guys, how about those custard-filled speedbumps. Wasn't that a great Halfbakery post!
AusCan531, Aug 10 2021

       That was the shizzle.   

       Ahh yes, this site can be a beautiful thing.   

       And I've mentioned before, soft speedbumps were my first idea posted here, my first "baked" and my first "MFD". I hadn't suggested custard but the premise was the same. Heartbreaking. My dreams of being a custard filled speedbump mogal buried in a pile of fishbones.   

       That was my first "well baked" idea but certainly not my last. Good times.
doctorremulac3, Aug 10 2021

       // If it's imgur, facebook, or any privately owned system - they make it pretty clear in their terms of service and can run their own systems how they want. If you don't like them - don't use them.//   

       And if they all use biased moderators who censor based on certain politics then they still get to run their systems how they want. It's not illegal, it's just evil.
Voice, Aug 10 2021

       //I hearby declare blissy the winner of this pissing contest//   

Voice, Aug 10 2021

doctorremulac3, Aug 10 2021


       And be it so moved
Voice, Aug 10 2021

       Sorry, I have been on vacation at Lake Tahoe for a week. Just got back to hear I won something... Well, what'd I win, where's my prize, who'd I beat?   

       Oh, and I second AusCan.
blissmiss, Aug 10 2021

       Queen BlissMiss!   

       <hushed tones> (Never presuming to eclipse the shining magnificence of Empress Jutta of course) /<hushed tones>
AusCan531, Aug 11 2021

       Alas, your cabin with a veranda is not yet complete your highness. Soon though.   

       Why thank you, a couple of fries, NOW GET IT DONE ASAP. Before you know what happens!!!
blissmiss, Aug 15 2021

       Oh, it'll happen.   

       Looks like I'm not the only one getting shot down for using their words. [link]   

       Day 43:   

       They still don't know they can't hear me.
Tomorrow I will attempt Morris-Code Voting to see if any intelligent life forms remain.

       hmmm, interesting... some posts I'm still allowed to vote on and some posts I'm not.   

       I wonder who determines that?... and what their individual agendas might be?   

       //Morris-code voting// Secretly voting for this chap [link]?   

       [2_fries] //some posts I’m not// Here in HB you mean? I really don’t think you’re being censored. Most likely a glitch.
Frankx, Sep 02 2021

       Woops. I don't think it's a glitch. Lately anyone who questions the shear volume of propaganda gets shot down while verbal abuse of these folks is totally condoned... almost like that's part of the propaganda.   

       Which posts are you not allowed to vote on, [2 fries]?
pertinax, Sep 02 2021

       You're talking about that imgur site, not the HB, right 2fries?
doctorremulac3, Sep 02 2021

       //Which posts are you not allowed to vote on//   

       Still figuring out if there is a pattern.   

       //imgur site, not the HB, right//   

       That is correct.   

       Of course there is. It's in binary, and is used by computers to send information as fast as you can type it.
RayfordSteele, Sep 03 2021

       And here I was only making right turns...   


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