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Have been reading a couple of recent posts about straight to [m-f-d] etc. and I wonder whether, as well as irate remarks and spelling out the unwritten rules to newbie halfbakers that annoy you seniors, it might be an idea to be a teeny bit more effusive with praise for ok (or even good/brilliant) ideas.
Personally, I deleted an idea of mine in the superheroes category because the general feeling that day/week was that superheroes weren't new ideas just a pointless development of something silly. Shouldn't those of us who can learn the rules, or at least try to, be given a bit of support? I feel like I'm pleading. (before you rant, I'm going to delete this one in about a week if necessary)
Self-Explanatory Idea Names
http://www.halfbake...tory_20idea_20names
Something this idea is NOT! [dgeiser13, Jun 11 2001]
Proof that newbies can post great ideas
http://www.halfbake..._20By_20New_20Users
[krelnik, Oct 06 2004]
Those now in a praising mood can start here...
http://www.halfbake...m/idea/Speedhunters
[bungston, Oct 06 2004]
[link]
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Yes (to the idea, not the possible impending deletion). Or
at least less harsh. |
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that's what the annotations and the voting system are for. if you're not seeing praise in the form of "great idea!" or a pastry, then that tells you that your idea isn't so hot to the people who have read it. once in while, newbies (like myself) even get a welcoming-type greeting, although i haven't seen any in the last little while. |
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great idea, lewisgirl, and welcome to the halfbakery! (even though you got here a couple of days before me) |
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It's the demagogue's dilemma; good ideas unfortunately get little more than a nod and a croissant, while bad/silly ideas spawn lengthy annotation threads. |
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I am glad you deleted your idea; I
wish more people would "clean up
after themselves". I delete my
own ideas and annotations
frequently; not everything we
generate is golden and worthy of
archiving forever. |
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But, then, others have wanted to
reduce or eliminate the power to
edit and delete, so clearly my
opinion is not universally shared. |
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I was recently informed by an Australian colleague that the English are a very negative lot. I like to play up to the stereotype, it saves having to think too hard. |
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I agree with Waugsqueke. <checks to make sure he spelled it right...<grin>> Deleting annotations, unless they're offensive <as I believe has happened before.> is a bad idea...things change as they're talked about, and discussing an idea may eventually come up with a real way of possibly doing it. <At which point most of us lose interest...> |
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I find the superhero thing annoying, and don't read any of them, unless the title is not obviously one. |
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Bookworm is right, I believe...a good idea tends to be fairly obviously good, and aside from small 'polishing' things stands on its own. A bad idea gets either ripped up or ridiculed, and they tend to make up the bulk of the site. But hacking up annotations so that some of them are left hanging in space, thus making no sense, is a bad idea. |
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Bunch of individualists, we are. For another perspective, take the example of Team Rocket--who drew the wrath of virtually everyone until [he, she, or it] posted a graciously phrased, intelligent idea. A number of Halfbakers, including UnaBubba (who can be as rough-edged as anyone) then chimed in with praise. But I've only been here a couple of months myself. Any of you old-timers notice week- or month-long shifts of mood or tone in the HB? |
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Sometimes. If we get a lot of idiots at once, or one prolific one <Or a couple of pairs that seem to have since disappeared again>, everybody's kind of rough-edged for a while, until they go away... |
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[DrBob] Well said! What a great annotation! |
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I've never ever seen (talked to, exchanged emails with) a halfbaker who confessed worry about any aspect of their ideas who I hadn't independently thought about days earlier "what a nice writer! I hope they stay" or something to that extent. (And that includes you, lewisgirl.) |
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Maybe this has to do with the fact that if you're good at something, you are more likely to see the whole breadth of quality in the field and realize there are people better than you. If you're bad at it, you don't even notice. |
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So, it probably doesn't help with the general bitching and moaning, but when it comes to skills, the fact that you worry is a good sign that you don't have to. |
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lewisgirl I've only been a member for a short while and have posted a couple of silly ideas which didn't really get anywhere but I have had responses from some of annotations which have led to debate. I've found that the best approach is either to reply to any feedback in a calm and collective manner or simply ignore it; You'll find as much positive stuff as negative and there are many times when the topic takes a surprising turn. I think that if you're not offensive in either ideas or annotations then most halfbakers will be happy whether they agree or disagree. Whatever you do don't get put off by negative remarks and keep posting because your contribution is as valid as any other baker's. |
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You can earn my praise (and possibly a positive vote) by giving this idea a more descriptive name. |
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I would, dgeiser, but if it had a more descriptive name more newbies might find it and then cite it when they get fed up with being flamed by you seniors. There is method in my madness!
I saw that, ravenswood, and I wondered whether I'd been some part of the reason for it... I now have a warm mushy feeling and a grin on my face. |
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lewisgirl: what is so wrong with people citing this idea? i believe that's the whole point behind half-bakery. don't you think giving an idea a unique name enables people to better make sense of the ideas in the db? |
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all right. I can't be bothered arguing.
yay. |
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*cough* and if women were in charge, there'd be no war, right? Because women are just kinder and nicer than men? |
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No, war would just be a _lot_ more subtle and underhanded. |
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I doubt that matters to the people who get killed, tortured, etc. in the meantime. Watch some women squabbling sometime. Violence, pettiness, and mob-think are not male monopolies. |
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Praising decent ideas? Hahahaha: that's just stupid! (croissant/2) |
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I like what you write, Lewisgirl. And a kinder 1/2B, why not? Press on! |
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I like the title of the idea
I like the sentiment although I feel that a little "rough" has been very good for me on a personal level
I thought that you had been here for ever and saw you as a role model |
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I like it here <<gibber gibber>> |
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I've had the same sentiment many times. I try not to annotate unless I have something to say about the idea, about the thread, or about an annotation (in that order). But I always *try* to say something (and it's not always on topic). I do *always* vote (except for my own ideas, where I never vote). |
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The trend toward pedantry-releated annotations has faded considerably since I've been here (for which I'm grateful). There is still, however, a disturbing tendancy to run annotations way off topic. This is probably why we perodically see calls for a HB chat area. |
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I find StarChaser's anotation somewhat amusing... the one that begins "I agree with Waugsqueke" and goes on to say that deleting anotations is bad... |
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I also have an odd sense of humour... |
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But in this case, it's not just the annotation that's been deleted, it's the annotator. |
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So long PertinentOak and thanks for the acorns |
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And he did it to himself, rather than having it done to him. |
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Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I hae seen plenty of ideas that were ok/good/ but they got bombed w/ fishbones! |
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I think this is a *very* good idea. |
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I agree that newbies are never given a chance. Having been a newbie twice myself, I know the feeling. It's difficult to fit in to the 'old regime' of the halfbakery... I find it difficult to get anything constructive from that bucnh unless you're one of them. I'm sure many others feel the same. |
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I've said that I was done making this speech, but here it is once more just because I'm a bit surprised that [Parvenu] expressed that opinion. |
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It is an inaccurate characterization of the halfbakery to say that newbies are treated harshly here. Maybe some are, but I don't think it's just because they're new. |
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My newbie experience was nothing like unpleasant. I am not one of the ancients as some seem to believe. I just showed up one day and the 'old regime' acted as if I'd always been here. No attacks, no insults, no hazing and I don't even recall a "here's how the 'bakery works" speech. |
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Since I arrived on the scene, I've observed that newbies are generally welcomed even more formally and warmly than I was. |
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i really liked the site when i came across it. enjoy people's rants even. yet i'm a definite newbie and have had personal attacks on the stupidest things like my id? im not a try hard, i have a spine but ripping people apart bc they haven't fully researched something isn't so fair. but then again life isn't fair. insinuations of idea stealing are unfair because obviously awareness is the issue not idea theft. well said lewis. |
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Sorry if you've already said that in an anno, I couldn't be bothered to read them all to something that is neither half-baked nor particularly inventive. Lets face it, I'm sure that most people give croissants to ideas that they like without having to molly coddle newbies. |
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Yours sincerly as a newbie, |
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Be nice to everybody so that they don't cry! |
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What idiot posted this piece of junk? |
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Oh, my bad. Welcome to the halfbakery!!! |
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rereads idea: hey [Lewisgirl], your week is up. |
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and use a shorter title next time. |
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Ha! just kidding. Wait. Why isn't anyone laughing? |
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that's right, i'm with shapu! (kick themz asses! kick harrrd.) |
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(it's obscene, the way that different people allow themselves to be understood by speaking abstractly.) |
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Here's my 2 cents, as a newbie: |
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Being initiated into a new group is a process. It involves lots of baby steps and a few big steps. One big step is to learn the official rules of the group, whether that's the Halfbakery Helpfile, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the laws of the State of Tennessee, the team playbook, the University Catalog, whatever. Another big step is to learn the behavior of those who are members of the group--mostly by observation--and behave in that way.
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Learning behaviors by observation is a tricky deal, which includes a little bit of positive reinforcement and a *hell* of a lot of negative reinforcement. Joining a military command and learning its customs means watching what direction people walk so you can figure out how to get to the mess hall (positive), and it also means screwing up and hearing all about it (negative). Ragging on initiates is a time-honored tradition, and for good reason. To use a personal example, I got ragged on pretty good on "Alcoffee" and "Restaurant microwave criminalization". I also got ragged on when I started digging up a bunch of old condom ideas and annotating them. Was I sad? Yeah, I was. Was I pissed off? Yeah, I was. Am I glad I got ragged on? Hell yes. Getting smoked on two terrible ideas, and on a non-idea-making-related mistake, were the first steps in figuring out what the hell I have to do to be a baker. After getting ragged on, I proceeded to change my behavior, start lurking, and observe rather than try to contribute. I haven't posted an idea since. Is that because I've been scarred? No, it's because I know I have to think about my ideas more before I post them. I haven't had an idea worth the effort (except for "Passball", which I still think is a great idea). When I do, you can expect to see it. Maybe it'll be a great one, and I'll get lots of tasty buns, and I can pat myself on the back and move on. Maybe it won't garner much interest at all, and I'll learn to make my ideas more interesting and attractive. Maybe I'll end up in a shitstorm where I get totally trashed for a terrible idea. What will I do then? I'll put it in my pocket, learn my lesson and move forward.
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Good idea? You be the judge. |
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I just think serious ideas deserve more critical attention. |
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Well, I think the ideas here fall mainly
into the fun and the serious (with some
overlap). If an idea is taken as serious,
the first thing that will happen is that
people will pick holes in it. If it falls
apart because of bad science, then that
is (in part) what the site is for - to test
'serious' ideas critically. If it stands up
to the battering, or gets improved as a
result, then the idea emerges
stronger.
I don't see too many
examples of good 'serious' ideas
getting a gratuitous battering here - the
criticisms often seem to be either
refutable by the poster or irrefutable
because they are valid.
Non-
serious ideas are a different matter, but
again I think the response to them is
generally fair. |
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If you can't stand the half-heat... |
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...get halfway out of the kitchen? |
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this is my take on serious ideas versus non sensical: i believe here now in the early 21st century, everything that is wrong with society is because of the implications of what we have come to term 'progress.' |
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i have a desperately negative view on out future mostly due to dwindling oil/energy resources - such that we are starting to far exceed our capacity to sustain all the new 'innovations' and 'ideas' that are based almost entirely on capitalist, consumerist, decadent, western reflections of 'improving' our already over convenient existences. |
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On this basis, I always give a bun to anyone who makes any posting about alternative energy resources no matter how ridiculous, and fishbone serious ideas about advertising, and blatant commercialism. |
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In my own way, i make a point of being absurdist, and ironic in my ideas, because if all my ideas were 'serious' and directed towards filling the gaps in the market - i couldn't possibly justify being at the HB. |
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This is of course my own personal view, and im not in any way trying to force it upon anyone else, i just see that for me anyways, halfbakery is about exploring spectacular impossibilities that make me laugh, cry and gasp in amazement at the depth of other people's mysterious imaginations. |
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I can see the things that can make this world a better place (if not a funnier place) and this I feel is what the halfbakery is about. |
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We really do have a limited time here left in this wonderful party we are now experiencing - and for me i am always considering the implications of 'serious' ideas that ultimately do not not take into account how they can be sustained in a world of ever increasingly dwindling resources - and inevitable third world workers who will manufacture your new idea. |
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i have resigned myself to a life of silliness. nothing more, nothing less. |
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The background music to that annotation started off as teary violin music, but ended up as calliope. |
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I disagree with [benfrost]'s first couple of paragraphs completely - I think progress is by and large exactly that, progress (albeit messy, inefficient, circuitous and occasionally accidental progress) - but curiously, after that I couldn't agree more. |
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Lewisgirl, I admire both your spirit and your idea. I only wish I had more than one croissant to give. |
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I think the halfbakery is too groupthinky. People can be boned and marked for deletion for posting ideas too far from the groupthink, or even harassed until they leave. I agree that there should be standards, but "that idea is too different from the way we do things around here" should not be one of them. |
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I like to punch the random button a bit. And I have seen three or four cases where is is obvious that someone feeling their way, was hammered on and quit. |
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Maybe they never even saw the help file. Maybe they were thin skinned. But three or four ideas, a few nasty comments and nothing else. Just gone. |
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A shame people didn't pull their punches. I think newbies get better treatment now. |
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The random button is indeed a walk through the strange. Great for Halfbakery poker. |
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