Half a croissant, on a plate, with a sign in front of it saying '50c'
h a l f b a k e r y
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<shrugs>

active conversations should not be deleted whilst active.
  (+3, -5)
(+3, -5)
  [vote for,
against]

I think we need our own hb chat-room where things can be discussed without rules as to the discourse.

Politically correct be damned. Freedom of speech or not.

That's like the entirety of the idea.

<on second thought> there's probably dozens or more of these things already.

As you were.


Halfbakery_20Speaking_20Tube_20System [xenzag, Apr 27 2023]

fermented fish https://en.wikipedi...wiki/Fermented_fish
[Voice, May 01 2023]

Halfbakery Field Of Honor Halfbakery_20Field_20of_20Honor
Or should I say Field Of "Honor"? [doctorremulac3, May 08 2023]

Shame. https://www.faceboo...h/2106175119548529/
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, May 13 2023]

SO much misdirected hate. https://www.youtube...watch?v=Tpy1HwdA-UA
I put up with three years of this bullshit propaganda without batting an eye. [2 fries shy of a happy meal, May 15 2023]

This is extremely dangerous to our democracy... https://www.youtube...watch?v=fzYj11qWb-M
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, May 15 2023]

Truth https://youtube.com...ylMJY?feature=share
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, May 24 2023]

Adverse Events Reported after COVID-19 Vaccination https://www.cdc.gov...adverse-events.html
The odds are quite long [a1, May 25 2023]

[link]






       I think there do have to be rules, at least implicitly, anyway. But yeah, it's a shame to lose that while it was active.   

       Did you respond to my question about your model of the covid vaccine thing?
Because if you did, I'm sorry but I didn't get to it in time, and I do genuinely want to know what it is.
Loris, Apr 26 2023
  

       I did answer your question, and I think that answer got the post deleted.   

       Huh. Maybe it was a final straw situation.   

       Anyway, I've sent you a message through another channel. We may not agree on a number of things, but I'm happy to talk.
Loris, Apr 26 2023
  

       [-] Yup, "dozens or more of these things already." And quoting [jutta] the last time someone suggested changing the kinds of discussions and moderation on HB:   

       // Same answer from me as always for these things -- can't such a spin-off forum be created on a separate forum-hosting site and pointed-to? Like, a subreddit or something?
—jutta, Apr 13 2023 //
  

       I deleted my own idea (as allowed by HB guidelines) because one person insisted on diverting from the idea to repeatedly talk about their own unrelated personal issues.
a1, Apr 26 2023
  

       Well, I'm sorry about that. I try.
Loris, Apr 26 2023
  

       [Loris], it wasn't you and wouldn't have mattered. If you ask some people what time it is they'll tell you about childhood traumas that induced their chronophobia - and you'll never ever get them off of that subject.   

       That's just a metaphor - not saying any of US are afraid of timepieces. Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?
a1, Apr 26 2023
  

       ^was it me? I hope it was me. If it wasn't me then it should have been me. you haven't heard about me yet? well, shit son if you don't believe me just ask me. I'll tell ya straight.   

       Swear it on my eyesight.   

       //Anyway, I've sent you a message through another channel. We may not agree on a number of things, but I'm happy to talk.//   

       Not sure what channel you've messaged me through. I am also happy to talk.
I prefer to talk openly which is why I posted here.
I don't like censorship.
  

       I am willing to attempt to repeat verbatim my previous answer to your question if I can remember my response correctly.   

       ... just, in public is all.
not privately.
why should these fine folks not be privy to our discussion?
Are we, either of us, too worthy of sharing our discourse with others?
  

       I think not. I've always been one of those others.   

       Freedom of speech, or no?   

       it's kind of important.   

       Uh, I messed up. Let me try that again.   

       ---   

       I was under the impression that, while a very effective soundbite, "freedom of speech" doesn't mean that you're able to talk to anyone about anything and they're not allowed to do anything.
Loris, Apr 27 2023
  

       //I think we need our own hb chat-room where things can be discussed without rules as to the discourse.//

Luckily for you, there are countless places on the internet where you can create your own chatroom
hippo, Apr 27 2023
  

       //"freedom of speech" doesn't mean that you're able to talk to anyone about anything and they're not allowed to do anything.//   

       It means people are allowed to not listen if they wish. Silencing people speaking the truth is for tyrants and communists.   

       //Luckily for you, there are countless places on the internet where you can create your own chatroom//   

       That is not freedom of speech, it is dismissal.
If my words were so off the mark they would not have been deleted.
I'm pretty sure I hit the nail right on the head.
  

       Not sure though whether it was my, "textbook socio/psychopath saviour syndrome" comment, or the "One must first create the problem in order to appear to be the hero fixing it" comment that got my words deleted.   

       Either way, I must have touched a nerve eh?   

       Ooh! it might have been outlining the "four steps it takes to subjugate the masses" comment.
...or the "just look to China if you want to see how it was supposed to go down everywhere else" comment.
  

       <shrugs>   

       As far as I can tell, you still have a Facebook page and that would be an ideal place for you to say anything you want.
a1, Apr 27 2023
  

       Just dangle your hose out of any window to make the right connection. [link]
xenzag, Apr 27 2023
  

       ^ Heh. Nice.   

       //If you insist on using HB to the exclusion of all other forums//   

       As I've told you privately, facebook is the only site I frequent, other than this one, I've not been silenced on for my stance on this plandemic farce.
Not banned from mind you, just arbitrarily silenced. I can still post things, but only I and the mods can see them.
  

       I just wanted to give you guys a heads-up that the Canadian government is trying to censor the internet, mentioned chemtrails in passing, and then you guys asked all the questions... I just answered them.   

       The answers were not liked I guess..   

       Still aren't I gather...   

       ...go figure.   

       We've had various chatrooms over the years. Yahoo group, a FB group, another offsite group called Overbaked, etc.   

       It was one thing we did that seemed effective at keeping people tired of the personal shit from heading to the exits.
RayfordSteele, Apr 28 2023
  

       // Freedom of speech, or no?   

       Oh my gods. This again.   

       Freedom of speech is protection from the government stopping you from expression. THE GOVERNMENT.   

       Not Facebook, not Twitter, not Reddit, not Halfbakery. These are all privately owned entities and are under no obligation to provide you or anyone else with a place to say whatever you want. They can remove postings and comments at their own discretion and are not violating your rights doing so, because you have no rights on these platforms, you have the privilege of using them while adhering to their policies. You know the rules - follow them or get lost. It's really not that complicated.   

       It seems that people who have the most ridiculous things to say are the most bothered and confused by - and willfully ignorant of - this concept precisely because they are the ones most likely to have their dumb / controversial / inappropriate / straight up wrong observations removed.
tatterdemalion, Apr 29 2023
  

       That's absolutely true, 100%. However there's a great workaround to the first amendment, when government entities farm out that breach of the constitution to a third party by telling those private entities what to silence. There have been cases where private entities have sometimes complied and other times declined to comply.      

       I would propose that, since the private entity can do whatever they want, and even people in the government are protected by the first amendment, that they disclose if they were told to remove something by a government entity and that their brand, (and reputation) is colored by that. Then let the consumer decide if they want to get their news from some private outlet that's parroting the decree of some self appointed omnipotent government agency.   

       My two cents anyway.
doctorremulac3, Apr 29 2023
  

       I'd say that already happens.
tatterdemalion, Apr 29 2023
  

       It does, and entities that are following this model are thriving while Pravda style mouthpieces for the globalist, oligarch controlled military industrial complex aren’t doing so great.
doctorremulac3, Apr 29 2023
  

       You seem a little confused there, [dr3]; globalists would be the people who've been trying to build up international institutions, right? And the military industrial complex consists of the people who make most of their money when those institutions break down. Right?   

       Are you sure they're the same people? I'm pretty sure they're not. Have you met any representatives of either group, or read anything that they've written?
pertinax, Apr 30 2023
  

       //Freedom of speech is protection from the government stopping you from expression//   

       While there are various constitutions in the world which guarantee freedom of speech, it is a natural right recognized in those noble documents. The right is a natural right belonging to all humans, recognized or not and trampled or not. A corporation or even (given sufficient power imbalance) an overbearing parent or spouse can trample rights just as well as a government can. Indeed a single individual can trample your right to free speech by saying, "if you say a word this knife is going into your throat"
Voice, Apr 30 2023
  

       [Voice] I would not consider those violations, as someone being suppressed in such a way would still have recourse to express themselves once they are able to escape those barriers. Freedom of speech is violated when there is NO recourse remaining and this restriction is, and can only be, imposed by the government.
tatterdemalion, Apr 30 2023
  

       //dr3]; globalists would be the people who've been trying to build up international institutions//   

       Like the 3rd Reich, Soviet Union, Imperial Japan, or the Mongol Empire?   

       I assume you support a new improved global empire of some sort and I’m really excited for you as long as it doesn’t have any power over me.
doctorremulac3, Apr 30 2023
  

       //you support a new improved global empire//   

       What did I say to give you that impression? I just pointed out that there are different "theys", with different agendas, not one big "they".
pertinax, Apr 30 2023
  

       Since you say I’m confused, enlighten me to the differences in the various groups that want dominion over the entire planet, I assume you support one of them since you took umbrage at my lumping all groups that want omnipotent control of all mankind into one category. If there are good guys that just want all power over every living being, tell me how I’ve misjudged these awesome saviors of mankind. You asked if I’ve read their manifestos or talked to them, do you have a brochure I can read?
doctorremulac3, Apr 30 2023
  

       And by the way, if know where these discussions about self determination vs government control always end up. “I believe I should have control over my security, my money, my life.” “Oh, so you think you should be allowed to have a nuclear weapon?”   

       So here’s where I stand, yes, we need governance, rules, government but it needs to be entirely at the decree of the people being governed. Even government regulatory bodies can be successfully replaced by private regulatory agencies. What happens when a private regulatory entity gets caught doing something corrupt? Their brand is destroyed, they’re out of business, like the rubber stamp government echoing “news” outlet.   

       That doesn’t happen with governments, they just put up a new set of charlatans and disavow all the evil that was perpetrated by the previous group of scumbags and continue their rape and pillage operations. It’s the job of us citizens to keep these power hungry scumbags at bay, but we won’t be able to if we’re forever believing that if we just give the right group dominance over the planet everything will be great.   

       The problem is the concept of an omnipotent one world government, not the details of who would fulfill that roll. It’s gonna be the ones willing to do anything to achieve that power, not the ones best suited to run that governing body. So a good person like pertinax might support that ruling body with the best of intentions, but that power base will attract the most brutal and evil people to take it over.   

       (I yield the soapbox.)
doctorremulac3, Apr 30 2023
  

       I prefer to analyse it from an empirical point of view [doc], it is a toxic mix of game theory and thermodynamics. In the end it seems to me that lying cheating and killing one's way to power wealth and domination tends to work, and therefore over the long term I expect to see society dominated by ruthless liars. Simple as that. The details are also fascinating but that's enough for now.   

       Anything else (about how it "should" be) is basically a variant of "if everyone was nicer, the world would be a better place" (which I also believe in).
pocmloc, May 01 2023
  

       Yes, that's absolutely true, if a psychopath runs for office against an honest person the psycho will do whatever is necessary to win while the honest person will simply be constrained by their morals.   

       And it's funny you should say that, I was hearing an interesting thing about intelligence vs awareness. What you just said features both, but mostly the latter. When you were a kid you had a certain IQ the minutes before you were told that Santa Clause wasn't real. Your IQ didn't change after you were told he wasn't but your awareness changed.   

       So why don't people become more aware about things like powerful governments? Because awareness doesn't necessarily make you feel better, in fact, it can feel pretty crappy like when you learned Santa isn't real. "Governments are worse the more powerful they get because more evil people seek that power? Shit!"   

       So it's important to temper that with something positive if possible. Civilizations DO advance despite the ball and chain of power mad big government types, why is that? Because individuals in that civilization continue to think, learn, create, innovate, work towards a better future and advance science, technology industries and arts that make civilization more civilized, and the freer those individuals are to benefit themselves from their efforts, the more incentivized and effective they are at achieving those goals. Yes, the barbarians steer us into wars, destruction and chaos but we continue to move forward.   

       Think about it, would you rather be a pharaoh from 2,000 years ago or a middle class person now? Yea, that's a pretty nice thing to consider. (Side thought, I wonder if the psychopath would rather be the pharaoh. Hmm, sounds like an interesting personality test question.)   

       Anyway, speaking of civilization, thank you for your civil response, I was pretty sure I was gonna get attacked for not trusting somebody else's idea of an all powerful, all knowing, all benevolent world government. Nice to see there's at least somebody out there that sees things the way I do.
doctorremulac3, May 01 2023
  

       Is this with or without the short lifer span kings and their family typically enjoy? And with or without the responsibility? Because a pharaoh had a wide variety of food, hot water, and so on. The fact that you also enjoy those things as a relatively poor person is the miracle of the ages. The meme that it's better to live as a current age peasant than an earlier age king is very wrong as far as enjoyability of lifestyle goes. Only in the realm of medicine is my standard of living better than an ancient pharaoh's. Food, clothes, shelter, entertainment, communication, and transportation were all more pleasant for him. Sure he couldn't know what happened a week ago in a war far away, but that's not personally fulfilling enough to me that I wouldn't give it up to know I have a lifetime's supply of delicious food brought to me by half nude girls at the snap of my fingers. He couldn't pick up the phone and call Mom, if she happened to be far away, but balance that against the chance to be sure of her financial success and safety, even if he couldn't talk her. The pharaoh didn't have a comfortable steel box to get into and go zoomy zoom, but then again he never needed to make a personal trip to the grocery store, or to work for that matter. He couldn't go to a store and see a huge range of clothing options, but he didn't exactly walk around in rags...
Voice, May 01 2023
  

       // In the end it seems to me that lying cheating and killing one's way to power wealth and domination tends to work, and therefore over the long term I expect to see society dominated by ruthless liars.//   

       As long as you don't think it's a new phenomenon...
Voice, May 01 2023
  

       Well, yea. How do you think those Pharos got in power? "Yea, I was just talking to dad, who happens to be the sun god, he says give me everything you own and do whatever I tell you to."   

       Personally, I'd rather have all the knowledge the information age offers at my fingertips rather than having some poor slave grovel at my feet and bring me fermented fish. My selection with Doordash is gonna be a lot better than anything the pharaohs ate. Plus, our generation walked on the Moon, theirs piled up some bricks.   

       But that's just me.
doctorremulac3, May 01 2023
  

       Lots of bricks. Quantity has a quality of its own. //My selection with Doordash is gonna be a lot better than anything the pharaohs ate/// nu uh. And anyway the door dash guy isn't someone I want to see half naked.
Voice, May 01 2023
  

       Hey, it's a hell of a pile, no doubt.   

       Me in a time machine addressing the pharoah as he says "Behold this mighty trubute to me, the god king!"   

       "What, that big pile of bricks? Time machine! Beam me back! They're trying to cut my head off!"
doctorremulac3, May 01 2023
  

       //who happens to be the sun god, he says...//
Funny how (in pretty much all religions) "what god wants" perfectly aligns with what the guy up the front wants; which is normally power, control & wealth.
neutrinos_shadow, May 01 2023
  

       Yup. Never in history has the chosen one said "Awww man! I just talked to god and he told me I'm a jerk and you should all think for yourselves."
doctorremulac3, May 01 2023
  

       Sure they have, you just never heard about those guys.
Voice, May 01 2023
  

       ... ahem.   

       Sure it sounds pretentious on the surface...
...but how many of you have lived their entire lives on intuition?
Your only teachers the dregs of society around you?
  

       More than you think.   

       ...and yet a minuscule number of those folks attain this heightened awareness instead of losing their shit and ending up in an institution.   

       Whether I have lost my own sanity is your own personal call, not mine.   

       I just tell it like it is. you are welcome to believe me or not believe me as you will.   

       In my mind... pointing out detriments to not believing me is helpful.   

       I know nothing but my own point of view. No outside influences.   

       Imagine that.   

       Can you?...   

       Just a free dude figuring out everything from scratch without being taught.   

       What humanity itself looks like to an outsider?   

       ...and then to wonder why we as humans haven't been welcomed into any sort of galactic collective? Well, you only have to look at how we dealt with our most recent crisis to figure it out.   

       //I know nothing but my own point of view. No outside influences.//
This is an interesting proposition - the idea that it is possible to be both (a) a human animal and (b) completely psychologically and cognitively independent, uncontaminated by bias or preference.
calum, May 03 2023
  

       //This is an interesting proposition - the idea that it is possible to be both (a) a human animal and (b) completely psychologically and cognitively independent, uncontaminated by bias or preference.//   

       2fries is a solipsist.
Loris, May 03 2023
  

       It is a little ironic that he wrote those words in the same language the rest of us are using.
hippo, May 03 2023
  

       More ironic, [2 fries] is that all of your controversial beliefs came from somebody else. You didn't *invent* any of them, you just latched on to pre-existing (though not mainstream) views and you feel compelled to preach.   

       So even your claim of unique insight is not unique.   

       (Edited to address the complaint that I was speaking to you as if you weren't here. Is it any "nicer" to gripe in 2nd person personal instead of 3rd person invisible?)
a1, May 03 2023
  

       Can I encourage a spirit of humility and open-minded debate here? Speaking derisively about one of our number as if he weren't here is not befitting the spirit I, for one, feel best represents the half bakery.
Voice, May 03 2023
  

       Well said, thank you V.
doctorremulac3, May 03 2023
  

       // Can I encourage a spirit of humility and open-minded debate here? //   

       You can encourage or ask, but I think that ship has sailed. Hit a rock, caught fire, and sank. Years ago.   

       [2 fries] continually posts about personal beliefs (not inventions) unrelated to HB, injects same into others' conversations, and is generally rude to or about everyone who disagrees with him (calling the whole world idiots, fuckwads, etc). He may as well be exhorting us to all come to Ja-EEE-zus and say anyone who doesn't see his light will burn in hell. There's a time and place for everything - even fanatical preaching* - but this isn't the place for that.   

       Of course, that's just my take on it - but note how many times [jutta], [hippo], and other long term, highly placed folks have suggested he take these discussions elsewhere.   

       * If I'm gonna pray though: [MARK-FOR-DELETION], oh please, most exalted [jutta]!
a1, May 03 2023
  

       Aw, play nice, a1. We all have our foibles.
Loris, May 03 2023
  

       I am playing nice. My real self is a lot nastier.
a1, May 03 2023
  

       My real self is just nice until something forces it to no longer be so.   

       <adds 'solipist' to lexicon>   

       // [2 fries] continually posts about personal beliefs (not inventions) unrelated to HB, injects same into others' conversations, and is generally rude to or about everyone who disagrees with him (calling the whole world idiots, fuckwads, etc). He may as well be exhorting us to all come to Ja-EEE-zus and say anyone who doesn't see his light will burn in hell. There's a time and place for everything - even fanatical preaching* - but this isn't the place for that.//   

       I think that you'll find the two decades of my original idea postings prior to the start of those non-invention related postings coincides with the start of this plandemic.
I was ignored and belittled for my correct assessment of the situation at hand and had my rights criminally revoked for daring to utter them.
I do not believe the words 'fuckwads' or 'idiots' can be attributed to me but I do remember calling anyone persecuting me for not buying-in to that bullshit 'self-righteous asswipes', and I stand by that.
  

       As I was correct in my assessment, silenced on almost every form of social media out there for being correct, and singled out for showing you what it feels like to be labelled... I'm the bad guy?   

       Maybe listen more, and cancel-culture less.   

       Did any of you see this shit coming in advance and try to warn others?   

       I did see it coming... and I did warn you all.
...and I got shit on for it, as did any others able to discern the con who spoke up.
  

       I find the 90 some odd percent of people to be either complicit or complacent to the premeditated and directed removal of our human rights beginning with the loss of first-to-invent and ending with the attempted loss of our medical autonomy.   

       Covid amnesty appeal denied.   

       I sentence you with fixing the shit you were either complicit or complacent in bringing about.   

       Next case!
<slams gavel down>
  

       //I was ignored and belittled for my correct assessment of the situation at hand and had my rights criminally revoked for daring to utter them.//   

       The thing is, 2fries, that most of us don't actually agree that your assessment (of the covid situation) was, or is correct. That makes most of your other statements about it moot.   

       //I do not believe the words 'fuckwads' or 'idiots' can be attributed to me //   

       I don't think you did either. That might have been Bigsleep? It /is/ hard to remember who said something on here sometimes.   

       //Maybe listen more, and cancel-culture less.//   

       Asbsolutely.   

       ----   

       This is kind of unrelated to this topic, but if I'm going to post it anywhere on the hb, here is probably best.   

       In one of the now-deleted covid threads, at one point we discussed "gain-of-function experiments". Some people were in favour of flat-out banning them.
Their opinion was that they were dangerous, because giving viruses the ability to infect humans was risky.
  

       And I don't disagree with their argument!
But the problem I had was that the term covered much more than its use in viruses, and a flat ban would stop a lot of perfectly safe (and very useful) research for no good reason.
I'm not sure if that was accepted, and the wikipedia article on it doesn't help - it makes it look like it's all about viruses. So anyway...
Yesterday I was searching through old emails, and found a thread between my boss and a journal editor about a paper we were publishing, back in 2013. He mentions our use of a gain-of-function experiment to show that ... well, it was involved, but it was studying how parts of different large proteins could interact in an antibiotic production pathway, in a bacterium.
There is no additional risk to this over everything else we were already doing - we'd been investigating production of this useful antibiotic for years, nothing involved is infectious, and the bacteria themselves aren't dangerous.
  

       And it just reminded me of that conversation and I thought I'd mention it as evidence that the term is used in a much broader context, the wikipedia article on it notwithstanding.
Loris, May 06 2023
  

       Well, it's like any deadly technology, you can ban them by law but only the people who follow laws won't do it.   

       You'd need to ban them but also hold those who release these contagions responsible, but we see how well that's worked.
doctorremulac3, May 06 2023
  

       I don't think you get my point.   

       It's not whether dangerous research should be restricted. Obviously it should.
And laws do have a strong effect.
  

       The point is that "gain-of-function research" is a much broader term than seems to be appreciated.   

       Banning anything which could be described as "gain-of-function" would be like banning cooking to stop cannibalism.
Loris, May 06 2023
  

       Luckily there's nobody on Earth, me included, who's confused about rules regarding actually creating deadly pathogens that pose the threat of mass human extermination and the concept of general study of the associated science.   

       But why does it matter? Right now it's most likely that somebody somewhere is working on viruses to try to make them as deadly as possible for biowarfare purposes. At some point you can talk about laws to regulate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin all you want, but what's the point?   

       Laws have to be enforced, if you want a country with nuclear weapons to do what you tell them to, good luck. Maybe yell "STOP! or I'll yell STOP! again!" I guess.
doctorremulac3, May 06 2023
  

       I am currently inebriated. That is all.
Voice, May 07 2023
  

       Cheers!
doctorremulac3, May 08 2023
  

       Laws only apply to those willing to follow them. What percentage of us is that?   

       //The thing is, 2fries, that most of us don't actually agree that your assessment (of the covid situation) was, or is correct. That makes most of your other statements about it moot.//   

       That is patently obvious...
You 'will' learn.
If my statements weren't touching nerves I would not have been so silenced.
I'd just be another crank to brush off and categorize.
  

       ...but I'm not am I?   

       You have no idea how I do the things I know how to do... but none of you can deny that I do them regardless of your disbelief.   

       So what would you do in my shoes, if you are able to imagine being in them and bombarded by images of things before they happen?
Would you capitulate to the masses?... or would you snub your nose at them?
  

       ...or would you ignore the taunts and attempt to continue to teach that which seems to have been scrubbed from the educational system others were subjected to?
A system which, from a pariah perspective, seems designed to exclude those like yourself.
  

       <shrugs>   

       Welcome to the cross-roads folks...   

       ..after living a life of deja-vu and premonitions and trusting my gut above all other things... through no choice of my own.
I've got a good feeling about this particular incarnation.
  

       Something's changed. We can do this shit. I know you don't recognize the shit to be done, but we can do it anyway.   

       ...but don't belittle me for doing what you can't.   

       You are all scholars...   

       ...so learn.   

       Narcissism is an ironically common trait amongst cranks.
RayfordSteele, May 08 2023
  

       Time to re-suggest the HB field of "honor" maybe? (link)
doctorremulac3, May 08 2023
  

       //You have no idea how I do the things I know how to do... but none of you can deny that I do them regardless of your disbelief.//   

       Don't actually know what you're talking about here.   

       //So what would you do in my shoes, if you are able to imagine being in them and bombarded by images of things before they happen?//   

       Oh, you can "see the future"?
I would like to formally lodge a denial. Sorry, I didn't realise that was necessary before.
  

       //You are all scholars...
...so learn.//
  

       Demonstrate it and I'll believe you.   

       You could do this with a major lottery win (a share of the main or major prize) for example. Post the numbers on a single ticket - ideally one you have purchased - at least 1 day before the draw.
Or make some statement about a news item on here which I can corroborate ahead of time. Must have a date, location and unexpected event - all at least approximately correct. Saying that e.g. there will be a mass shooting somewhere in america in the next week would be insufficient on all counts.
  

       If your predictions happen at shorter timescales you won't be able to do this - but maybe you could for example predict how dice will fall. Obviously that sort of thing is easier to fake in various ways, so it would need more rigorous adjudication, but a single-take video of you correctly predicting 8 dice in a row (with a little preamble) would go some way to showing that you can beat one-in-a-million odds.
Loris, May 08 2023
  

       I've explained this before. I can't win the lottery unless I was already going to win the lottery.
I don't get to pick what I see, and I can't use it at will. I imagine some folks can see way into the future but I jut get glimpses.
  

       As for beating one in a million odds, apparently my first-to-invent right was unconstitutionally stolen because it only affects one in every 2.6,000,000 US patent applications, yet at least three aspects my Miniautilus prototype beat those odds in the same year the law changed. Maybe four patents.
I beat those same odds earlier with the first rc dragonfly, the same year Canada stole first-to-invent from it's citizens.
  

       What are the odds of both of those statements being true eh?   

       As for proving the metaphysical you already know it can not be done.   

       Here's some odds for you.
How many halfbakers suffered the label antivaxxer for three years and stood their ground?
How about on the entire planet?
  

       Is that edging on one in a million?   

       Gain of function research scares the shit out of me.   

       // enlighten me to the differences in the various groups that want dominion over the entire planet //   

       Since this thread is still here, I should probably respond to that.   

       I suggest that you contemplate the constitutional separation of powers, which exists in the US constitution and in a bunch of other constitutions in various forms. That exists because we can't entirely trust the Executive, the Legislative or the Judiciary. However, it won't work if we just lump all three together as "The Government, and therefore not to be trusted at all".   

       To make it work, we have to be able to say things like "In scenario A, the main problem is the Judiciary, interpreting the law in a way we don't like - so in *that* scenario, we should write to a legislator, to try to get them to change the law so it can no longer be interpreted that way". And then, "In scenario B, the main problem is the Legislature, trying to change the laws so that they can stay in power even though most people don't like them - so, in *that* scenario, we should appeal to a judge to have that declared unconstitutional". And so on.   

       In no scenario do we regard any branch of government as intrinsically good, but, if we understand the differences between them, we have some chance of making them work for us, rather than no chance.   

       So, that's branches of government. But a similar thing applies to other groups that have power. For example, the Military- Industrial Complex: when they try to exaggerate a foreign threat to boost spending on arms, which has happened before, we should call bullshit. However, when our own country, or another country that we care about, is actually being invaded, or is at imminent risk of being invaded, then we're glad that the Military- Industrial Complex exists (even though we could wish it functioned in a different way).   

       So, suppose you think that a particular war is bogus, and is only being waged so as to sell weapons; well, the solution to that problem might be found in an international institution like the UN, where you can try to persuade other countries to isolate the parties involved. But in another situation, the UN itself might be the problem - say, hypothetically, someone there is corruptly misappropriating aid meant for refugees. So, for that problem, you might turn to the media to expose the corruption. But that doesn't mean you really trust the media, because the next week, you may find you're being defamed by a media outlet, so then you turn to the law courts. And so on.   

       The point is, the only way you, as a citizen, can fight one power, is by looking for other powers that you might be able to recruit to your side in this particular case, whichever case it happens to be. That doesn't mean you look on them as all- purpose saviours, only that, for some *particular* problem, they *might* be part of the solution. If you lump them all together, then you've essentially given up. And *that's* why I think it's a bad idea to talk about a //globalist, oligarch controlled military industrial complex//. And it's a better idea to ask who, exactly, are the bad actors in each particular case, and what, exactly, you think they've done. Because none of them controls everything (much as they might like to), and, in general, they are each other's worst enemies.   

       Does that enlighten you at all?
pertinax, May 09 2023
  

       //I've explained this before. I can't win the lottery unless I was already going to win the lottery.//   

       Okay, so just give me the numbers then. UK national lottery, coming week. I'll buy the ticket. No actually, I won't - but I'll kick myself if it wins. And also believe you, which is what really matters.   

       //I don't get to pick what I see, and I can't use it at will. I imagine some folks can see way into the future but I jut get glimpses.//   

       So, you can't demonstrate anything in any capacity.
Maybe not ideal in terms of persuading anybody.
  

       //As for beating one in a million odds, apparently my first-to-invent right was unconstitutionally stolen because it only affects one in every 2.6,000,000 US patent applications, yet at least three aspects my Miniautilus prototype beat those odds in the same year the law changed. Maybe four patents.//   

       I think I heard about your patent issues... for some sort of water bicycle?
It sounded like you'd messed up (or at least, the bureaucracy stitched you up) rather than anything nefarious or rare happening.
  

       But you see, we're not looking for random "one in a million" odds for you to score. That would be like drawing a target around the bullet-hole.
You want to prove you have some special sense? You do need to show it does something special.
  

       //How many halfbakers suffered the label antivaxxer for three years and stood their ground?//   

       You and 4and20 - so a couple out of a tiny fraction of a million active halfbakers.
Research I saw online suggests vaccine deniers are something like 3% of the UK population, and 7% US and Canada.
So you're not particularly special in that regard.
Loris, May 09 2023
  

       I'm not a vaccine denier.   

       I'm an experimental non-vaccine denier. Get it straight. I have all of my "vaccines", just not these plandemic myocardial infarction inducing injections.   

       //Okay, so just give me the numbers then... And also believe you, which is what really matters.//   

       No, that's not what really matters, that's what you think that I think really matters and that ain't it.
I can't give you the numbers. I get brief visual snippets of things just before they are about to happen. Sometimes I feel a sense of urgency slightly before a deer decides to teleport in front of my vehicle, or a child darts out into traffic, or the asshole oncoming is going to try and kill me... and find myself in full on fight-or-flight mode seconds before I need to be so and am ready.
  

       Your belief in my words matters not one whit to me living my life by them. Given the benefit of the doubt, they might help yours someday though.   

       //So, you can't demonstrate anything in any capacity. Maybe not ideal in terms of persuading anybody.//   

       Science demands replication of an experiment in order for anything to qualify as science. I can replicate exactly none of the things I've seen, done, known, or intuited without being taught.
Therefore I do not exist.
  

       You've all heard of the 10,000 hours studying something equals mastery right?
So imagine being forced into self sufficiency from before puberty and forced to rely entirely on your intuition.
  

       ...and then you make it past fifty.   

       I don't know the things you were taught, so in my opinion you would do well not to exclude the things I was forced to teach myself, because they have been purposefully excluded from the general curriculum so that you don't just 'not' believe me.   

       You 'can't' believe me no matter how much truth I spew.
You are unable to. You automatically 'know' that I am wrong without questioning that assumption.
You are conditioned.
I don't 'know' that you are wrong. I suspect it, but I don't 'know' anything beyond my own experiences.
Since I waded into society with no preconceptions the ride has been spectacularly weird and some of the things I've seen and done will remain untold because frankly people have a hard enough time buying the shit I've already said without rocking their little boats more than what I've said so far already has.
  

       //You want to prove you have some special sense? You do need to show it does something special.//   

       Why do yo think I feel the need to prove anything to anyone? I observe and report to those I consider friends. I don't attack anybody. I don't foist my views on anybody. I just tell it like it is, and repeatedly this seems to be a threatening thing somehow, and then I get attacked and seem to dig myself deeper and deeper into whatever shit-hole of a situation I didn't cause... and then I crawl out the other end vindicated and smelling like a rose.   

       Just don't say I didn't warn you.   

         

       //You and 4and20//... suffered the label antivaxxer for three years and stood their ground?// - so a couple out of a tiny fraction of a million active halfbakers.//   

       Virtual high five [4and20]. ...and then there were two...   

       //So you're not particularly special in that regard.//   

       You have absolutely no idea how off your charts I 'really' am.   

       Only what I've disclosed.
I just keep trying to convince you guys to believe me for your own good.
  

       Not mine.   

       I'm good.
I need your belief the same way I need a third testicle.
  

       //I can't give you the numbers. I get brief visual snippets of things just before they are about to happen. Sometimes I feel a sense of urgency slightly before a deer decides to teleport in front of my vehicle, or a child darts out into traffic, or the asshole oncoming is going to try and kill me... and find myself in full on fight-or-flight mode seconds before I need to be so and am ready.//   

       Oh, is that it?
I think lots of people have that occasionally, basically it's just that you're subconsciously aware of something before you consciously know it.
  

       //Why do yo think I feel the need to prove anything to anyone? //   

       Um... because you keep telling us how you're right and everyone else is wrong, and that you're special in ways you haven't disclosed, so we should trust you.
But I suppose that doesn't mean you feel the need to prove it, it's starting to look more like you just want gullible people to believe you without any evidence.
Loris, May 10 2023
  

       Okay, so ask yourself why I want people to give me the benefit of the doubt? I suppose those people could be called gullible because they are all walking science experiments for not giving it to me in the first place.   

       "I" am not selling anything
I just made the decision a long, Long time ago that I was going to be myself and tell it like it is no matter whether it is believed or not.
How much disbelief do you think I've waded through over the decades?
It hasn't changed my resolve one whit.
  

       //basically it's just that you're subconsciously aware of something before you consciously know it.//   

       Yes!   

       I keep telling you guys that my subconscious tried to take me over when I was a kid and something I did back then has made it so that there are now two of me in my head.   

       It shows me things... sometimes far more than the seconds in advance, you all insist is the lag time between reality and cognition...
...and then those things go down just as I was shown.
Sometimes I will clue other people into things just before they happen just to double check.
Sometimes random people from my past will pop into my head just before they look me up.
Often I'll suddenly have some random tune start playing in my head and that song is playing on the radio when I fire up my truck. etc. etc.
It's constant, and it's been happening for as long as I can remember.
  

       I just never let the bastards beat it out of me and its the filter I've had to look at everything through for my entire life because I was left to my own devices.
Without this ability I would be dead or mangled so many times over that I can't count. If there's a multiverse I don't think that many of me made it this far and I attribute it to this waking connection with my subconscious.
  

       ...   

       I gotta be me.   

       ...but none of you need to buy in, I'm just naturally a helpful sort of dude and think that you should if for no other reason than somebody has conditioned you to be unable to do so.   

       Sure as shit wasn't me.   

       "Ask your doctor if Chlorpromazine is right for you."
a1, May 10 2023
  

       I have no illusions that my version of the word 'sane' differs from that of the majority.   

       I am very grateful for this.   

       The majority are currently browbeaten participants in an unregulated con of a science experiment, or have expired from it and can no longer speak for themselves.   

       Maybe you're all wrong and once again I've been plunged into a shit-pit and emerged smelling like a rose.   

       Time will tell regardless.   

       Keep your Chlorpromazine for those who need it.   

       Objects in your mirror are closer to the edge than they appear.   

       Longest shrug I ever saw.
pertinax, May 11 2023
  

       yet you all keep extending it... and expect me not to, as though that validates your presumptions.   

       How many experimental 'boosters' did you and yours get conned into subjecting yourselves to?   

       ...   

       Why didn't I?   

       Well thank you so much for asking, I'll tell you why, because I have previously been subjected to Stockhlom syndrome, recognize the onset of symptoms of such a condition, and am allergically sensitive to it now.   

       As you were.   

       Well, obviously the covid vaccine was pretty heavily tested before we saw it, but I suppose it was an experiment, in the sense of "what fraction of the population will avoid a 1/1000,000 mortality risk of vaccination, preferring to take the 1/200 mortality risk of the disease?"   

       Yeah, those are rough population average risks (and for the latter, assumes the health-service hasn't been overwhelmed), but substitute whatever fits their sub-population.
Loris, May 12 2023
  

       There was, and is, no Covid vaccination.   

       Vaccines confer immunity, and stop the spread of the disease.   

       What you guys got browbeaten into into taking did neither of these things... yet you insist on calling them vaccines all because of a dictionary change of definition shortly before the plandemic.   

       You've been conned.   

       Global warming was another such con, (not to be mentioned anymore), as soon 'climate change' will be. The more things change the more they stay the same... but the more you can be conned into allowing yourselves to be taxed to defer that which can not be deferred... the better it is as far as 'they' are concerned.   

       Carbon tax! That's the ticket.
Tax people for what eighty or more active volcanoes spew into the atmosphere equalling our entire human carbon footprint every single day... yep... okay.
  

       That'll fix tings!   

       So... silence the detractors and put a few more diversions in their path, maybe censor the internet and throw bud-light under the bus as a distraction so that nobody pays too much attention.   

       Profit.   

       ...and here we are.   

       As medical science, the medical field, and society evolves, definitions like those of vaccines on certain websites get updated to more precision. Otherwise we'd all still be speaking like "Doctor Ug hit small bug with stick. Kill bug. You better now."   

       But I know. Anything that possibly could fit your massive conspiracy narrative must by default be a part of that conspiracy. Couldn't possibly be just normal clarification so some idiot doesn't think that a vaccine implies 100% effectiveness, (as they never were nor possibly can be because some folk don't have effective immune systems).   

       Your instincts in this regard have utterly failed you. Trust Loris. He has a few clues as to what he's talking about.
RayfordSteele, May 13 2023
  

       1 in 200? Seriously? At its worst there were almost no non-co-morbidities, and almost no deaths under 50. And don't make me bring up flu statistics.
Voice, May 13 2023
  

       //Couldn't possibly be just normal clarification so some idiot doesn't think that a vaccine implies 100% effectiveness, (as they never were nor possibly can be because some folk don't have effective immune systems).//   

       Nothing is 100% effective, but 'vaccines', when they are effective, render immunity as per the original definition of the word.   

       //Your instincts in this regard have utterly failed you.//   

       Sure they have.
That's why I'm walking around with an uncompromised immune system while 90% of the population wonders if they're governments have mandated their deaths.
  

       Speaking of mandates, our Liberals are talking about bringing vaccine mandates back if you want to travel, even within our own borders, or to hold any government job.
Because this charade has nothing to do with public safety and everything to do with stealing rights, consolidating power, and controlling the masses.
It's not only a con. It is an incredibly blatant one.
  

       Just as my instincts warned me.   

       In exactly what way is my 'immune system compromised?' Tell me. Exactly by what method does this vaccine work to compromise your immune system? What are the mechanics involved? Have they introduced an AIDS variant? Why can't you tell me? Your 'instincts' you supposedly rely on have taught you so much as to be in your mind equivalent to any doctor, so why haven't they gone so far as to give you more of the details as to how it short-circuits your T-cells or bypasses your cytokine creation process? Why does this supposed gift of yours stop at the layman level?   

       Because it's bullshit. That's why. In continuing this fantasy you insult the very people, just as you did to Maxwell, who work quite hard to protect you and I from these kinds of plagues when they come. I quite remember the dressing-down he gave you for it. Do you? You don't know any of them. Haven't met them. Haven't a clue who they are at all as people beyond your TV screen. And you've convicted them of the absurd.   

       Just this week I fended off a nasty head cold which was going around our house and neighborhood but didn't give me much more than a few sneezes. It seems my immune system is working perfectly fine. In fact now that you remind me, my doc says I'm due for my TDAP booster shot.   

       You go on keep living in your imaginary world where people are worried about dying tomorrow by some nefarious plot to do who knows what except make your spider senses tingle. I'll get popcorn.
RayfordSteele, May 13 2023
  

       //1 in 200? Seriously? At its worst there were almost no non-co-morbidities, and almost no deaths under 50. And don't make me bring up flu statistics.//   

       If anything that's a slight understatement, at least for some populations (the quote below is from a study analysing cases and deaths in mainland China). I suppose you can quibble that it's possible you will avoid the disease entirely, but at this point unless you live as a hermit you're basically guaranteed to be exposed sooner or later.
::The overall death rate from covid-19 has been estimated at 0.66%::
  

       So you could say ~ah, but that's China, the West is different and has better healthcare~ and that may be so, but according to a table I found on wikipedia with data from Our World in Data, the UK and the USA had almost identical overall covid mortality rates, more than 3300 per million (that is, over 0.33%), and we know that those are predominantly the unvaccinated. In the UK, I think mostly from before vaccines were generally available.   

       I'm not sure what you mean by "almost no non-co-morbidities". There are a variety of things which increase your risk - being old, overweight, a smoker, diabetic, etc. But even without those, there was some risk. Or did you just not bother to read the second sentence in my comment and think I was assuming a 'flat' risk?   

         

       //Trust Loris. He has a few clues as to what he's talking about.//   

       This is flattering, but I'm okay with people not trusting me, provided they mistrust others equally.   

       I guess I mean - I /am/ sometimes wrong, but perhaps you should accept that so is your intuition, and
if you suspect that I'm biased, malicious or have something to gain, you should extend that consideration to whoever I'm disagreeing with.
Loris, May 13 2023
  

       //Because it's bullshit. That's why.//   

       Tell that to the parents of ten year old kids dying from myocardial infarction days after taking these jabs.   

       //In continuing this fantasy you insult the very people, just as you did to Maxwell, who work quite hard to protect you and I from these kinds of plagues when they come. I quite remember the dressing-down he gave you for it. Do you? You don't know any of them. Haven't met them. Haven't a clue who they are at all as people beyond your TV screen. And you've convicted them of the absurd.//   

       I remember conversations with [MB] very well.
I have no doubt that there are good men and women behind the scenes.
They were silenced and fired if they wouldn't follow the narrative.
Our "anti-vaxx" unemployed nurses and doctors still have not received either an apology, compensation, or even their jobs back.
  

       Spare me your rhetoric.   

       oh yeah... and [link]   

       //Tell that to the parents of ten year old kids dying from myocardial infarction days after taking these jabs.//   

       That's a pretty explosive claim, so I imagine you have a link to a reliable source to back it up? You should probably post it, or people might call bullshit.   

       Being in the uk, my experience was centred here, and I remember the initial reports from abroad of deaths from unusual blood clots after the Astra-Zeneca vaccine. Which initially seemed odd, because they hadn't been seen here, and not by dint of failure to look. But the risk seemed to be about one in a million or so. (That's where I got the value above.)
It later was reported that the difference was because the UK was prioritising older people for the vaccine, and hadn't got down to younger adults yet, while other countries were following different approaches. The solution was to give younger people other vaccines, predominantly Phizer.
And there has never been a general offer of vaccination for under-twelves here - only those children either at-risk themselves, or living with someone at high risk.
  

       //Our "anti-vaxx" unemployed nurses and doctors still have not received either an apology, compensation, or even their jobs back.//   

       I don't feel that sorry for them, to be honest. Like I don't think a kleptomaniac should become a security guard, or an atheist should become a priest. Even if it's not their fault, or a sincerely held belief, they can't really do the job expected of them.
Loris, May 13 2023
  

       They clued in to the fact that what they were being told what to do was not in the best interests of their patients and are to be applauded.   

       Watch the video I posted of the congregation of doctors and nurses fucked over by our system for trying to do what's right instead of what they were told to do.   

       You ever hear of sudden adult death syndrome before this shit started? Ten year olds having heart attacks? Athlete strokes?   

       Western culture, North America, and democracy itself is under clandestine attack from all directions and you just want to shove your fingers further into your ears in order to pretend that shit's not hitting the fan as we speak.   

       // Western culture, North America, and democracy itself is under clandestine attack from all directions and you just want to shove your fingers further into your ears in order to pretend that shit's not hitting the fan as we speak.   

       I mean quite honestly, haven't we had enough of this crap on the bakery? Someone please put a stop to this conspiracy freak.   

       [marked-for-deletion] please remove this rubbish discussion whether or not it's active.   

       [Rayford] is 100% right, it's all bullshit, every bit of it, and no one with two brain cells to rub together buys a word of it. [2 fries] at least maybe you could try to return to posting actual fucking HB-worthy ideas and knock it off with the incoherent nonsense which really has no place here. So stop wasting yours and everyone else's time.
tatterdemalion, May 15 2023
  

       You didn't bother looking at the last two [links] I posted before attacking me did you?
I doubt you'll look at an even more convincing [link] before throwing more vitriol my way.
  

       About your 1st of the 2 links: yes, that is precisely how we felt about you. Irresponsible disregard for the safety and welfare of your fellow man, while being spoon-fed conspiracy crap and spewing out bullshit that put people's lives ar risk. The opinion remains unchanged.   

       No matter what you believe, there will be some YouTube supporting it.
RayfordSteele, May 15 2023
  

       //that is precisely how we felt about you.//   

       I think you meant the second of the two links. The first link is of one of many nurses fired for doing what's right instead of what was forced.   

       Who's this 'we' you claim to speak for?
Is it every person forced to get vaccinated, or just the one's on that bandwagon of their own accord?
  

       //Irresponsible disregard for the safety and welfare of your fellow man//   

       Look in the mirror. Not one whit of this shit we were all put through is on the hands of the unvaccinated.
None of it.
  

       //while being spoon-fed conspiracy crap//   

       Nothing spoon fed about it. I had to dredge for those links. You think that level of dissent just pops up on random feeds?   

       //and spewing out bullshit that put people's lives at risk.//   

       Okay good.
Now we've cut to the chase.
  

       Explain to me exactly how refusing to allow my body to be violated put even a single human being at risk, (including myself) when you were all lied to about these jabs preventing either contraction or spread of this virus and how a natural healthy immune system is better at fighting off this virus alone?   

       Seriously. How did my actions warrant the hate and the restrictions society saw fit to place on me for being correct?   

       //The opinion remains unchanged.//   

       As does the correctness of my stance against those who's judgments have been proven unequal to the task of withstanding media propaganda causing them to single 'me' out as the bad guy in this debacle.
List my crimes.
  

       Watch that last link and then tell me that the news media wasn't fully purchased beforehand.   

       No conspiracy at all.
Every individual unconnected news outlet in the US just spontaneously wrote the exact same script for their newscasters?
I mean, it's possible I suppose.
...but probable?
  

       Not bloody likely.   

       I also noticed you completely ignored my first link and focused entirely on the one with people agreeing with your own internal echo chamber of me.
Have those medical professionals in the first [link] also just been spoon-fed conspiracy theories in your mind?
  

       // [2 fries] at least maybe you could try to return to posting actual fucking HB-worthy ideas and knock it off with the incoherent nonsense which really has no place here.//   

       I would absolutely love to.   

       So tell me... how the fuck am I supposed rewind my mind to a time before I was being persecuted, for something my hands are entirely clean of, and find my happy place again, where the ideas are, when nothing has changed and I'm still being persecuted for speaking truths and all those who persecuted me or were indifferent to said persecution want a fucking amnesty for their actions and to carry on as though those actions had no consequence while continuing to blame me for defending 'their' rights?   

       ...   

       How exactly?... because it eludes me.   

       I'm not a healthcare professional, but that might be what the Chlorpromazine was for.
pertinax, May 16 2023
  

       // You didn't bother looking at the last two [links] I posted before attacking me did you?   

       Of course not! I wouldn't waste my time looking at any links you post, I've learned that lesson. I can't believe you'd expect anyone to do so.   

       // I doubt you'll look at an even more convincing [link] before throwing more vitriol my way.   

       You're absolutely right. Your posts can be described in many ways, none of which are "convincing" on any level.   

       // So tell me... how the fuck am I supposed rewind my mind to a time before I was being persecuted...   

       Figure something out, for christ's sake - you're a grown man supposedly.
tatterdemalion, May 16 2023
  

       I'll deal with your other link when I have time. I do have a job and a family to deal with.   

       //Seriously. How did my actions warrant the hate and the restrictions society saw fit to place on me for being correct?//   

       Do you seriously have to have someone explain the basics of viral transmission and herd immunity to you? in this day and age there's really no excuse for being so willfully ignorant. This is why the vaccinated population was simply done with those refusing without any legitimate medical reason.   

       Go read up on the sad history of Typhoid Mary or similar cases and grab a fucking clue.
RayfordSteele, May 16 2023
  

       Ranty Filbert, a Canadian nut
Lived inside his survivalist hut
Only came out to shout and complain
Of unpopular "truths" he had in his brain
  

       They called him a moron, they called him a clown
Whatever they called him, he never calmed down
There's naught they could do to ever placate him
The best they could hope would be to sedate him
  

       He thrives on attention, that much is clear
SO STOP FEEDING THE TROLL, and end this verse ...
... here.
a1, May 16 2023
  

       //Of course not! I wouldn't waste my time looking at any links you post, I've learned that lesson. I can't believe you'd expect anyone to do so.//   

       Then remain in ignorance.
It's not possible to reason with someone bent only on enforcing silence while ignoring reason.
  

       //Do you seriously have to have someone explain the basics of viral transmission and herd immunity to you? in this day and age there's really no excuse for being so willfully ignorant. This is why the vaccinated population was simply done with those refusing without any legitimate medical reason.//   

       And yet you were lied to about these jabs being able to prevent the virus, their ability to stop transmission of this virus, and that cloth masks would protect you.
...and you all ate it up with a spork.
  

       I knew I was being lied to , and became sure of it when I was singled out as the cause of all of your woes for trusting my gut, and then it turns out that I was correct in every single one of my assumptions on what was going down and now you all want to pretend that the last three years didn't happen.   

       My refusal to get the jab affected the outcome of this plandemic not one bit.   

       You all just need someone to blame.   

       Look elsewhere. Maybe at the folks actually responsible.   

       //Figure something out, for christ's sake - you're a grown man supposedly.//   

       Yes. I take responsibility for every decision I've ever made.
Responding to the decisions of others which affect my life is another matter.
  

       The 90% fucked with my life.
Now the 90% can figure out how to make it right.
  

       ...or not.   

       That's not really my call to make. I just know it would be the smart thing to do.   

       I didn't make this virus. I didn't endanger any of you by refusing jabination, (even though that's what you've been told) and just stop blaming me for this shit you already know I didn't cause.   

       Just stop hating for two seconds and fucking listen for once.   

       Watch the links.   

       Talk to me afterwards... or not... whatever.   

       Nice poem [a1]. I give it a six out of ten.   

       Any comment on the links? or are you just a stand-back-and-kick when it looks like I'm down guy?   

       //I do have a job and a family to deal with.//   

       Ditto.   

       //And yet you were lied to about these jabs being able to prevent the virus, their ability to stop transmission of this virus, and that cloth masks would protect you.//   

       I don't know what makes you think you were lied to about any of those things.
People do sometimes make mistakes, sure. I'm sure there are a few people willing to lie about over-effectiveness of any treatment. I've not seen that about vaccines, though - responsible sources have generally be pretty clear about how effective they are thought to be, and have given updated, more nuanced information over time as more has become known.
  

       //I didn't make this virus. I didn't endanger any of you by refusing jabination, (even though that's what you've been told) and just stop blaming me for this shit you already know I didn't cause.//   

       Obviously, one person out of 7 billion getting vaccinated isn't going to make much difference in the greater scheme of things.
But making wild and erroneous claims in public and/or on the internet about matters of public safety - yes that matters. Stop doing it.
  

       //Just stop hating for two seconds and fucking listen for once.//   

       Hey, I'm not hating. /Let's not/ do that.   

       I looked at the links you gave, and they didn't do what you said they would.   

       One ("Shame.") was a nurse, Nicole Sirotek, who is distinctly antivaccine and head of an antivaccine group. In the link, she was complaining primarily about levels of care, but also making some distinctly wild claims. Politifact says she's made one claim (that they've looked at), that Remdesivir is responsible for killing patients hospitalized with COVID-19, and this is false. Of course, Remdesivir is not a vaccine, it's an antiviral drug - IIRC the sort of drug bigsleep was desperate to use instead of vaccines. In the link, she says that patients getting Remdesivir have a less than 25% chance of survival. Which sounds scary, but since this drug is used specifically for patients at most risk, that's not in and of itself sufficient to evaluate it. I think she just hasn't done a proper trial and jumped to the wrong conclusion.   

       The other was a load of people saying variations on things about 'the unvaccinated'. I will agree that some of them were maybe a little too aggressive (although honestly, I think potentially there are grounds for that, depending on context). But some were quite reasonable.
  

       For example, Joe Biden said:
:: "Those who are not vaccinated will end up paying the price."::
  

       And I think you should understand that this is true. The covid-19 death rate of unvaccinated people is several times higher. People who claim otherwise are misrepresenting the data.
Loris, May 17 2023
  

       // nice poem //   

       Thank you.   

       // any comments on the links? //   

       No, because we’ve been through all of this before. Apart from gentle mockery, I having nothing to add.
a1, May 17 2023
  

       //I don't know what makes you think you were lied to about any of those things.//   

       Well, let's see.
Removing the word 'immunity' from the definition of 'vaccine' was the first con.
Telling the public that the jabs would prevent contracting the virus was the second con.
Then telling us all that taking the jab would protect others was next.
"Safe and effective" was after that.
Lockdowns being neccessary was bullshit.
That our hospitals would be overflowing creating a fake medical crisis came next.
Being told that masks keep us safe was a lie.
Being told that the unvaccinated are to blame was a lie.
Natural immunity from exposure being less effective than the jab was a lie.
  

       It's all been lies, right from day one and now our government wants to reinstate the mandates because of how much admiration our Prime Minister has for China.   

       Safe and effective. Follow the science. Blame the anti-vaxxers.   

       Makes me want to puke.   

       So, a sort of Santa Claus on a global level?   

       Let's say "yes". To which I ask: why do you think this is the first time such a lie has been perpetuated? If the lie is as deep as you say, then it's mechanisms are likely a well-oiled machine. So, why now? Why feel so adamant now? I think it's a bit myopic to freak out now, man.   

       At this point in society, the best we got is any sort of peace and comfort we are luckily able to garner (very many are not) while these forces of power play. And it's been this way for a very long time. Or you can decide to take a big inhale from the conspiracy bong and let it erode your wellbeing. It's there for the taking.
daseva, May 17 2023
  

       //Santa Claus on a global level.//   

       That 'is' what we are capable of.   

       //it's mechanisms are likely a well-oiled machine. So, why now? Why feel so adamant now? I think it's a bit myopic to freak out now, man.//   

       Because that well-oiled machine has decided to convince humanity that I, and those like me, are the enemy, which tells me that the machine is afraid, and that I and those like me can become a wrench in its works if it doesn't back the fuck off.   

       My life up until now has been myopic because I needed to focus on survival, now I'm seeing a bigger picture and it's looking more and more like I'm getting forced back into that survival mode... and I respond when attacked.   

       I ain't doing that Stockholm shit again, yet that's where we're headed.   

       // Or you can decide to take a big inhale from the conspiracy bong and let it erode your wellbeing.//   

       My well-being was just fine before assholes decided to take another kick at enslaving humanity.   

       It sticks in our craw.   

       Well oiled machine says what?   

       //Well, let's see. Removing the word 'immunity' from the definition of 'vaccine' was the first con.//   

       Already addressed and answered. When you give other people the same courtesy of discourse you expect from them for yourself then perhaps you'll be treated with a modicum of respect. At least when Marvin talked to the mattress the mattress was capable remembering the conversation for one day.
RayfordSteele, May 24 2023
  

       //mattress// Squornshellous Zeta for the win!
Sgt Teacup, May 24 2023
  

       //Already addressed and answered.//   

       Not even close, not by a long shot.
The definition change allowed experimental injections to be given the term 'vaccine' which led to myself and others being labelled anti-vaxxers, and everything which came with that label, when in fact I am just a critical thinker and have every one of what used to be called vaccines.
  

       ...just not any of these ( sudden-adult-death-syndrome ) inducing injections.   

       //When you give other people the same courtesy of discourse you expect from them for yourself then perhaps you'll be treated with a modicum of respect.//   

       I always have. I tell it like it is and expect the same in return.
Attacks, ridicule, and browbeating are not discourse.
  

       Does it not bug you that the jab you capitulated to may cause you to have a stroke at any time and that the companies responsible for your stroke or myocardial infarction or any other complication have been granted legal immunity?   

       Ironic that.   

       They remove the word immunity from their product yet ensure immunity from prosecution for themselves while doing so.   

       I have sympathy for those who were fear mongered, or feel they had no other choice but to allow themselves to be violated in such a fashion, but those who 'still' insist that my un-jabbed ass is to blame for this mess are total con-victims and unless they can reason with me, they are on the wrong team.   

       They are on the team that let all this shit go down and now want amnesty for the devastation their choices helped create.
If more than 90% of the population had my mindset we would not have allowed this shit from day one, (just as I did not), and you would not feel the need to berate me for pointing this out after the fact.
  

       Nothing really mattress.   

       [link]   

       2 fries, you claim to be a critical thinker, so let's do that.   

       IF 90% of adults are vaccinated AND that kills people at a high frequency, suddenly, without warning... wouldn't you expect to know people who had died like that already? I mean know personally, as in - people who you had talked to multiple times previously (online or off-line), rather than just heard about in the news because they'd died.
  

       Some people /do/ die suddenly, but this is nothing new. It's unusual, but people were dying young of heart-attacks etc, from before the covid pandemic. Someone in my department at university (who I knew and had spoken to) died, 20 years ago, in their 20s. So you need to account for that (low) base-rate. You need more to prove it to yourself.   

       Are you thinking people are suddenly going to start suddenly dying now, or soon? Because people who know about vaccines say that doesn't really happen - either there's a reaction pretty quickly, or they're almost certainly okay.
That probably shouldn't be a surprise, because it's basically the case for infectious diseases too. After an infection has been cleared and the immediate consequences dealt with, either there's damage, or there isn't. Yes, yes, I'm sure there are exceptions where auto-immune diseases are induced, and the like... but these are studied, and are in any case anything but sudden.
  

       Conversely, assuming you accept that covid is a real disease - you must presumably accept that it has been killing people. Do you know anyone who died of that? You probably do, because you knew 8th of 7, and although it wasn't stated explicitly, his death coincided with a peak of mortality in the uk.
Loris, May 25 2023
  

       Lads, lads. Gents. As much as it pains me to accept even the the possibility of giving up our previously umblemished 100% success record of resolving socio-political issues, I am beginning to suspect that we might not have it in us to square this one off. I am going to away and spend a while, far from keyboard & screen, in quiet contemplation of this potential embarrassment. I would encourage everyone active in this thread to do the same.
calum, May 25 2023
  

       [Loris], I did not suspect [8th]'s demise was related to COVID. Assumed it was autperotic asphysiation.   

       In a more serious vein, and more to your point: I'm vaccinated (original series of 2, and 2 boosters since then). Also much older than [2f], and older than either [8th] or [MB] were. Decades long history of heart and lung problems. Had heart surgery in early December 2022 to fix a problem that predated the pandemic.   

       Not dead yet.

a1, May 25 2023
  

       a1, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. It's not like there is a cut-off age where 100% survival flips to 100% mortality. Yes, you have other risk factors, but I take it you didn't get infected. Perhaps, being aware that you were at high risk, you took extra care to avoid infection - at least prior to vaccination?
If you don't catch covid, you're pretty safe from a covid infection causing your death, regardless of risk factors.
Loris, May 25 2023
  

       I have an aunt with MS whose husband had type 1 diabetes and consequently a liver transplant and is therefore on partial immuno-suppressants. Both got the early shots. Both ended up getting a later COVID variant from my cousin. Both are still alive although my aunt still can't taste much.   

       In my subdivision I know of 2 people that died from it. One was a nurse, one was a healthy 7 year old.
RayfordSteele, May 25 2023
  

       [Loris], I was just providing a snarky single data point of someone who got vaccinated and didn’t die from it. Also provided a link with data on how rare adverse reactions are to the vaccines - to offset unsupportable claims that ANY adverse reactions somehow prove everyone who got vaccinated was conned and likely to die from it.
a1, May 26 2023
  

       I personally know not one single person who had died from this virus.
I personally know not single one person who has died from complications from the jab.
  

       I caught the virus twice. I got the sniffles both times, didn't miss any work over it, I'm a healthy guy.   

       [MB] once asked me;
"So you think you have the right to do anything you want then?"
and I replied;
"No. I think I have the right to not put myself in harms way just because somebody else says so."
  

       I give no being that right. Taking it from me will prove... problematic for that being.   

       The thing that pisses me off the most though is that... you all don't seem to realize yet that this most recent mandate-fest was just a dress rehearsal to determine just how far we can be pushed before fighting back.   

       The next mandate incarnation will be much more intense. Much has been learned.
The performance of my fellow humans through this dress rehearsal does not give me much hope that the next will not succeed.
  

       ...   

       If you are constrained by the need for definitive proof before every decision made then this can, will be, and has been used against you. I have never in my life had the luxury of waiting for proof of anything before being forced to make life altering decisions.   

       Turns out you get good at it after a while.   

       Works well for me.   

       Why the hell would I allow myself to led by others?   

       Sorry but... your collective judgment sucks ass.   

       Oh dear, has he gotten out of his room again? NURSE!
tatterdemalion, May 26 2023
  

       Terribly sorry, but those nurses were fired for non-compliance to the narrative.   

       Best you're gonna get nowadays is a candy striper.   

       ...   

       I hope they/them are cute.   
      
[annotate]
  


 

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