Since it's nearly Anti-Catholic Bigot Day again (otherwise known as Guy Fawkes) in the UK, and Brexit is about to happen, as special celebratory firework seems appropriate.
When the EU is finally driven away from Britain, there will be cheers of rejoicing from all right-thinking (right-voting, right-wing Union-flag-waving) Englishmen (Now just the bogtrotters, whingeing money-grubbing jocks, and the dismal taffs to see off) and of course fireworks (tho sadly not 2 MT airbursts over brussels and strasbourg) (yet).
But there should be something for the remoaners, who after all face a dismal future (hopefully) crammed with disappointment and heartache at the demise of the post-WW2 centre-left social democratic consesus and the rise of divisive, intolerant nationalism leading to a colder, bleaker, more dangerous world (which has always been there, but their rose-coloured spectacles filtered it out up to now).
To assist, BorgCo pyrotechnic engineers (one of our largest R&D groups) have produced the Remoan Candle. Externally, it resembles a normal Roman Candle, although it's poorly constructed of flimsy materials, is deeply unattractive to look at, and is so unstable that it falls over unless constantly propped up by a pile of surreptitious EU subsidies.
When lit, it sputters pathetically for two and a half years, occasional spitting fur and feathers, then finally emits a long drawn out sigh ending in an very final death-rattle.-- 8th of 7, Oct 18 2019 Stephen Fry on why Brexit https://youtu.be/_HDFegpX5gI [Frankx, Oct 19 2019] Other people on why Brexit https://www.youtube...EoNxfA8lVNs&index=1 [Skewed, Oct 19 2019] It's the same the whole world over ... https://monologues....Poor-But-Honest.htmGlobalization ... ? [8th of 7, Oct 20 2019] Autonomous Collective https://www.youtube...watch?v=-8bqQ-C1PSEAnarcho-syndicalist commune. [Frankx, Oct 21 2019] The poster-boy for hardline protestants since 1605; a bit-part player in a rather inept attempt to kill James I, probably fomented by government agents provocateur to coax various potential threats out of hiding so they could be efficiently dealt with by Fire and the Sword (or rather musket fire, extra-judicial torture, hanging, drawing and quartering, and public humiliation).
A jolly tale of repression, prejudice, state-sponsored violence and pointless bigotry that's just crying out to be made into a musical comedy ... La-La land, but with more heads on pikes.-- 8th of 7, Oct 18 2019 almost a pun-- po, Oct 18 2019 //Since it's nearly Anti-Catholic Bigot Day again (otherwise known as Guy Fawkes) in the UK//
Huh. I thought it was nearly-blew-up-the-politicians day.
Anyway, wrong celebration. You're supposed to be aiming for Halloween.-- Loris, Oct 18 2019 Probably; but like Katyushias, Nebelwerfer, Calliope and the MLRS, pyrotechnics (those that lack a decent terminal guidance system, anyway) are notoriously inaccurate and rely on mass salvoes and an area effect.-- 8th of 7, Oct 18 2019 //musket fire, extra-judicial torture, hanging, drawing and quartering, and public humiliation//
... and nasty accident.
IIRC, after the initial failure, some of the conspirators galloped out of London in pouring rain to a safe house in ... Notts maybe? ... anyway, on arrival, they found their large supply of gunpowder had got wet. So, to dry it, they laid it out in front of an open fireplace ...-- pertinax, Oct 19 2019 Holbeche House in Staffordshire.
It just goes to show that enthusiasm is no substitute for competence. If you need conspirators, it's worth paying for good quality ones from a reputable supplier; the ones you get for free aren't worth the money.
The same is true of spies. Intelligence agencies far prefer agents that do it for money rather than ideology.-- 8th of 7, Oct 19 2019 I just sit here in silence, wondering what the hell shift happened to this world we live in, and where is our salvation from those who would destroy it with their greed and lack of soul?-- blissmiss, Oct 19 2019 //lack of soul?//
Not really their fault [bliss], James Brown wouldn't get here for more'n another 300 years.-- Skewed, Oct 19 2019 //wondering what the hell shift happened//
I think I've worked out the answer to that, [bliss], but I hesitate to share it, because feelings will be hurt.-- pertinax, Oct 19 2019 [bliss], there is no hope, no salvation. Only a long, dark, lonely downhill road, and half a day out with the undertaker at the end of it.
We can do no more than to quote the profound words of the late Pterry Pratchett: "I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides."-- 8th of 7, Oct 19 2019 Did you add an extra bad or am I simply remembering a slightly less grim version to protect my delicate psyche?-- Skewed, Oct 19 2019 It's your rose-coloured spectacles switching in, [Skew].-- 8th of 7, Oct 19 2019 Guy forks, guy forks, it was his in tent, to blow up ther houses of parly er ment.-- pocmloc, Oct 19 2019 "The only man who ever entered the Houses of Parliament with honorable intentions was Guy Fawkes ..."-- 8th of 7, Oct 19 2019 One + for pocmlocs doggerels-- not_morrison_rm, Oct 20 2019 Meanwhile, back on topic ...
//the post-WW2 centre-left social democratic consesus [sic]// was indeed fatally flawed, and //a colder, bleaker, more dangerous world // is indeed out there (except in so far as it may turn out to be warmer, bleaker and more dangerous).
However, it does not follow from this that Europe (including its offshore islands) would not be better off sticking together, precisely because of the ambient bleakness and danger. Admittedly, it's somewhat academic for me since, as you know, I buggered off to the far side of the world some time ago in anticipation of things getting ugly.-- pertinax, Oct 20 2019 Moving off-planet would be safer.
// better off sticking together, //
It's called NATO, it's Baked and WKTE.-- 8th of 7, Oct 20 2019 //Moving off-planet//
True, but I didn't qualify for a visa.-- pertinax, Oct 20 2019 //It's called NATO//
... and it will provide limited protection from trade wars, to say nothing of the fact that it may develop an America-shaped hole and fall to bits in the not-too-distant future.-- pertinax, Oct 20 2019 If centre-left social democrats prefer to spend money on welfare rather than their own defence, they deserve everything they get. Next time the krauts overrun the frogs, the sensible thing is to do the same as 1870 (stand on the sidelines, cheering).
Didn't someone say something quite profound about "Guns and Butter" ?
// visa //
Well, that's not an insuperable problem ... step into our office, we have an interesting offer for you to consider ...-- 8th of 7, Oct 20 2019 The only whining I see going on is from certain negative nancy types on certain websites who don't know how to write about anything that makes them content or uplifts other people.
I suspect this is why Ian left.-- RayfordSteele, Oct 20 2019 Maybe he should have negotiated an ITexit deal, athough a "No deal" ITexit makes more sense ...-- 8th of 7, Oct 20 2019 // Thatcher shutting down the coal mines. //
A very "Green" stance, would you not say ... ?
Besides, it wasn't about shutting mines - it was about breaking the power of the unions. And it worked.
// And so I became a socialist. //
Doctors are working on a cure. The Russians and the Chinese have had spectacular success in that field ...
// regulation surrounding capitalism //
Huh ?
// what form of capitalism they are backing. //
The sort exemplified by <link>.
// a rounded domestic economy based on all trades e.g. including nursing, //
If you have a rounded economy for producing fully trained and equipped armed forces, you can get everything else you want by just asking nicely.. As a noted U.S. president said, "Speak softly, and carry a big stick".
// cause a brain drain in other economies. //
If your economy is prosperous and successful that is inevitable. Somalia probably doesn't have a huge problem with economic migrants from Europe or North America ...-- 8th of 7, Oct 20 2019 Did you really have to wake this lying arsehole up & poke him into another WOT [8th].-- Skewed, Oct 21 2019 I wasn't talking to you, Google it.
//there, there//
Oh & kindly go fuck yourself you condescending insulting piece of shit, have a nice day.-- Skewed, Oct 21 2019 [Skewed], thanks for the link, it was certainly enlightening and informative. [zen_tom], I agree about nationalism, and am still anti-brexit. I do feel that “we” as a nation have been duped and manipulated by very wealthy and influential people/companies who are acting in their own interests, and populist media and self-serving politicians.
I don’t know if “we” will be more exposed to manipulation inside or outside the EU, perhaps it’s bad either way.-- Frankx, Oct 21 2019 //Meanwhile, for people who continue to harbor an irrational hatred of the EU, then our leaving is doubly fantastic - it gives the Russians a much needed geopolitical leg-up at a crucial time.//
With all due respect, I don't think it is helpful to mischaracterize Brexiteers in this way. I can certainly understand why many people wanted to remain in the EU, and I don't generally ascribe extreme motives to them - they made a reasonable decision. Other people made a different decision. Insulting either side is not productive, and nor does it reflect well on you, [zen], who are capable of greater wisdom.
//“we” as a nation have been duped and manipulated by very wealthy and influential people/companies// If memory serves (and it was a long time ago, now) most of the politicians, the banks, the financial gurus and big businesses were arguing for remain, not leave. The most vocal Brexiteer (again, in my notoriously unreliable memory) was a London bloke by the name of Nigel, best known for enjoying cigarettes* and beer.
(*Admittedly, smoking actual cigarettes these days is a sign of wealth, but not necessarily of influence.)-- MaxwellBuchanan, Oct 21 2019 //were arguing for remain//... I suppose my point is that the anti-EU backers of the Brexit referendum were not doing so out of an altruistic belief in the benefit it would bring to an average “British” citizen. They were motivated by corporate economic gain, or personal political gain. I do agree that there are anti-Brexit arguments that are also motivated by corporate gain and personal political gain.
I don’t believe that Brexit (in whatever form) will bring the benefits promised. But also, I agree that the deep-rooted capitalist interference in sovereignty (as demonstrated with Greece and with TTIP) is shameful and toxic.-- Frankx, Oct 21 2019 <Switches on Negativity meter/>
<Switches to next highest range/>
<Switches off, installs -12dB attenuator, re-selects base range switches on/>
<Chuckles/>
Conflict, distrust, emnity and despair ... another successful day ...-- 8th of 7, Oct 21 2019 [zen_tom] I agree with you, and I’m still anti- Brexit. It is worth viewing Skewed’s link, because I think you both have, ultimately, the benefit of “British citizens” and humanity as a whole as your central concern.
I’m not totally “anti-capitalist” (because I acknowledge the human benefits achieved over the last hundred-ish years) and although I’ll get scorched by [8th], I am a socialist. But more than anything we should be humanist and globalist, which requires more and bigger cooperation between nations - for the benefit of the biosphere and future generations.-- Frankx, Oct 21 2019 // I don't ascribe the negative traits to *every* Brexiteer, only those ones who actually have those traits.// Your tone and context seemed (to me, I may well be wrong) to be equating Brexiteers with Europhobics who for some reason want to leap to the aid of Russia.
People who voted to leave are right to be sensitive about having motives ascribed to them. The consensus and official line amongst remainers is that it's OK to discount the referendum because those who voted to leave were simply stupid enough to have been fooled into doing so; or are frothing racists.
When political parties lose elections, they generally don't use - as their main argument - the fact that the part of the electorate that voted against them consists of gullible fools.
(Incidentally, given that a //UK-Russian trade deal hasn't been discussed much publicly//, I don't see how it can be behind the Leave vote.)-- MaxwellBuchanan, Oct 21 2019 // I’ll get scorched by [8th] //
No, no, no, Winston ... all we want you to do is learn to love Big Brother. Mr. O'Brien will be along shortly to educate you.
And to Give In To Your Hate, of course ...-- 8th of 7, Oct 21 2019 Does it matter? Guilt by association will do the rest, like the English Roman Catholics in Tudor and Stuart times.
// why not fight for what you want democratically? //
Because nothing is ever gained at a conference table that cannot be taken and held on a battlefield.
If you're on the threatened side, talking on and on to gain time is an excellent strategy. But when your opponent brings out the nasty pointy sharp things, you gave to either yield, or fight. This is a law of nature, like natural selection, or diminishing returns, or unintended consequences.
At any time, an zero-sum game can be converted to a negative-sum game if one side percieves that they are never going to get what they want by asking nicely, and assess that their opponent lacks the will, skill or resources to resist a determined attack.
Clausewitcz would be your friend on this one.-- 8th of 7, Oct 21 2019 Hang on. Where did "Lexiteer" come from? And what is it? It's probably explained somewhere up there ^ but I can't be arsed to go find it.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Oct 21 2019 Why is Russia a threat ? All they want is power and money and to have their own way ... looked in a mirror recently ?
It's fundamental flaw in the Mk1. Human. Get over it.
// It is possible to transcend the zero-sum and move to a more profitable, more stable, and freer way of living. //
No, it's not. That 's just wishful thinking, a comforting self-delusuion promulgated by those who don't want to face, ha ha, a disagreeable truth.
Until you leave your squalid little planet, you have only the one cake to divide between an ever increasing number of mouths. Your only input is solar radiation. Everything else comes from "on board". Yes, you can use resources better. But you can't change what you are.
// Where did "Lexiteer" come from? //
An acolyte of the Evil Mastermind Lex Luthor, shirley ?-- 8th of 7, Oct 21 2019 //Big Brother//... socialist, not communist.
[edit] Although, surely the Borg are Communist?-- Frankx, Oct 21 2019 Fear not, once you have mastered Doublethink you will realise he is both and neither, simultaneously.
Does it feel like you're walking in sunlight yet ? Or are you walking down a white-tiled corridor forever, waiting for a bullet in the back that never comes ?
// Borg are communist ? //
If you thought about it, you'd realise we're the complete opposite; a single entirely selfish ego with no thought for others - the ultimate capitalist.
There are no bosses or workers, no upper and lower classes, no kings or peasants. Just a single ruthless will, focussed on dominating the galaxy.-- 8th of 7, Oct 21 2019 ...//no bosses or workers, no upper and lower classes, no kings or peasants//
...sounds like...-- Frankx, Oct 21 2019 Ah. An autonomous collective!-- Frankx, Oct 21 2019 Indeed; but not, we hasten to add, an anarcho-syndicalist commune ...
Would you like us to show you the violence inherent in the system ?-- 8th of 7, Oct 21 2019 [link]
Yup. I’ll be assimilated now.
So long as we can change “resistance is futile” to “resistance is an inherent property of most materials (at room temperature), somewhat inconvenient in many applications, but useful in some”-- Frankx, Oct 21 2019 Why not change it to "resistance is useless!"? Which pre- dates ".. futile" by 12 years. <looks around, doesn't see [8th of 7]; makes good an escape...>-- neutrinos_shadow, Oct 21 2019 // Why is Russia a threat ? All they want is power and money and to have their own way ... looked in a mirror recently ?//
Because they run on crime and poison their enemies abroad?-- RayfordSteele, Oct 21 2019 //no bosses or workers// Well, that certainly explains the Borg's perpetual inability to get their round in, as well as their need to borrow* a pony off of the Intercalary to help pay for getting the cube through its MOT**. I understand the Inland Revenue is also desirous of a conversation with you - apparently assimilation is in the grey area between "tax avoidance" and "tax evasion".
*I sincerely hope you manage to repay him. He has been saving up to cover the costs of a name transplant as soon as a donor can be found.
**Quite how a brake-light lens and wiper motor can cost so much - especially as they are interchangeable with parts from a 2004-2007 Nissan Micra - is puzzling.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Oct 21 2019 //keep the global economy growing// There's yer prahblem. The myth that the economy (and the population...) can just keep growing indefinitely.-- neutrinos_shadow, Oct 22 2019 After applauding zen I find myself agreeing with bigs in some fashion on the macro level. But easy answers there are not, and simply selling the construct off for scrap without a blueprint for what comes after sounds like a fool's easy answer to be taken advantage of by a clever prick or three.-- RayfordSteele, Oct 22 2019 Ah. I think [zen_tom] and I mean two rather different things by //the post-WW2 centre-left social democratic consensus//.
[zen] seems to refer to Enlightenment and Rule of Law. I'm in favour of those things, but they're not what I mean by //the post- WW2 centre-left social democratic consensus//.
What *I'm* referring to is best summarized by three books, namely, Maslow's Motivation & Personality, Galbraith's Affluent Society and Riesman's Lonely Crowd, all of which were published in the post-war period and helped to shape it. Their principal common flaw was a tendency to mistake certain positional goods, which can't be shared, for more objective goods, which could be (though their common assumption that the Problem of Production was solved is also looking a bit shaky).-- pertinax, Oct 22 2019 All you need to do is look at France (the yellow vests), Grece (economic implosion) & Italy (national democratic mandates overridden by the EU) to know the EU is not a force for good, or democracy.. makes the assertion (all of) our woes are self inflicted ring rather hollow.
If that's not enough just follow the money, consider the remain campaigns main financiers, big banks & billionaires (there's far far more wealth behind remain than could ever plausibly be said to be behind leave), they're not in it for the common good & never have been.
And then of course there's the proof of the pudding, the very small taste of it we've had so far, since the vote the rate of immigration has dropped off just a little (plausibly due to people's 'concerns' about brexit & their right to remain after it), UK unemployment has fallen & wages have risen.
Clearly anyone who doesn't profit off the back of low wages (directly or indirectly) will be better off out of the EU.-- Skewed, Oct 22 2019 //wages have risen//
In real terms, as a % of the cost of living, not just gross.-- Skewed, Oct 22 2019 ... or rather, carte blance for government snoopers to pry into everyone's private business using the usual "public interest" excuse ...
They're not interested in preventing criminality (especially their own), only getting their sticky fingers on more of other people's money so they can squander it.-- 8th of 7, Oct 22 2019 That's what They want you to believe. They are motivated by fear. If they have no revenues, they have no power, and increasingly revenue streams are moving out of their greedy wasteful clutches.
Since governments are institutionally deceptive, there are no grounds for attributing any credibility to their published motives.
It should be up to the individual to decide how, when and where their income is disbursed - not some over-arching entity who claims to have their best interests at heart - but then consistently fails to deliver. "Government" should provide external and internal security, and nothing more.-- 8th of 7, Oct 22 2019 // Having a transparent legal and financial system is a good starting point //
Great ... when you find one, point it out.-- 8th of 7, Oct 22 2019 Transparency is of course a relative scalar. There’s Deutchebank, and then there’s a credit union. There’s Wells Fargo and their cheating account strategies, but then there’s even less transparency in Panama where a whole bunch of tax cheats hid their money. There’s the SEC rules, and there’s the bank of Russia.-- RayfordSteele, Oct 24 2019 random, halfbakery