Rules are no outside anything other than the original startup. You get a cellphone maybe because a life without the internet isn't worth living, but the program has to be self sustaining. Chickens and their eggs would be a no brainer, they can feed themselves for the most part. Dog would be needed to protect the chickens probably.
The plan would be gauged by something like "nutrition density" or something, and specify the plants, animals, fruits, nuts, berries etc.
Could have one round of modification, but getting too crazy with vertical farming or whatever might not really give you any new info, so basically just using what you gathered pre-technology style. (Except the cellphone and a solar charger.)
Okay, clarification: Bring any technology you want, vertical farming included, but it can only be maintained by what you have on that property, so anything that needs fuel or oil that can't be grown on the property isn't allowed.
I'm allowing robots but think that's probably a bad bet.-- doctorremulac3, Sep 16 2025 There's not enough definition for this to be useful. By the time you've delineated what "vertical farming kind of stuff" is, there will be too much definition for this to be useful. [+/-]-- Voice, Sep 16 2025 Yea, let me get more specific. Stand by…-- doctorremulac3, Sep 16 2025 Actually, that’s a good point, could you build some kind of high-tech robot that would allow you to live on one city block because it does all the super high tech work? I think I’ll change it to technology that can only be found in the wild. But you get to gather that stuff up by any means necessary and plant it there.
Let me think about it, thanks for your patience. This is sort of 1/4th baked, let you know when it's up to half.-- doctorremulac3, Sep 16 2025 Needs way more preheating [-]-- Voice, Sep 16 2025 Nooooooooo! ok.
Now just to be clear, this is an idea for a contest to find the best way to do it, not a suggestion HOW to do it right?-- doctorremulac3, Sep 16 2025 Self-sustaining for how long? Will it be sealed-off from the atmosphere (I'm thinking wind-blown seeds etc) & water (both in & out)?-- neutrinos_shadow, Sep 17 2025 It’s be open for rain & sun. Of course the location would have to be accounted for, climate zone & such.-- doctorremulac3, Sep 17 2025 Optimal on this specification is going to be subsistence farming. Very few animals, no dogs. Limited machinery.
Why? Well, the limiting factor is the energy input (from the sun). Or if there isn't sufficient water to utilise it all, it's water instead. Energy or water invested in animals is not being used on humans; as far as your goal goes, it's wasted. Dogs are very energy inefficient in terms of what they'd get you. (If large predators are a problem, humans can kill them all - then there are no more because nothing can enter the property.) Other animals are only useful (towards your goal) insofar as they can reprocess and recover material which would otherwise go to waste.-- Loris, Sep 17 2025 I'm thinking self feeding free roaming chickens would be an efficient source of protein for their eggs and meat, but you'd need 24/7 protection from predators. Perimeter camera mounted AI controlled guns maybe. They could also bring down birds flying over for additional food. Tuned enough could only hit certain birds, leave the non food ones alone.
Make them smart enough could also make them non lethal, hate to be killing foxes and wolves just doing their things. Hit 'em with a rubber bullet and say "Love ya wolfie, just leave my chickens alone."
Could also just do that rolling cage thing I supposed. Solar powered motors, smart control zig zagging over the area. Kind of like that better than having guns evaluating my targetability whenever I walk outside.-- doctorremulac3, Sep 17 2025 In reality, this is completely impossible. You're going to be importing products. It's just a question of which products and in which configuration. Are you going to make your own chicken wire? How about your own steel ingots to draw out? Importing zinc ore? I get that you want to grow your own food, but how about the food your food eats? You want corn for chicken feed? You could theoretically draw it down to the importation of specific elements and work them all on your own, it's just incredibly inefficient. That's what I meant by "more preheating": you don't know what your goal is. You just have this general concept of "how small a space can one human live in off the grid" when there's a world of economic and logistical realities that have made the world the way it is, most of them involving efficiencies. If you want to live in a hut you build yourself on forest where you hunt then I imagine it's possible, but you're still going to have animals going back and forth. If you bound your forest your stock will start to suffer genetic maladies as they inbreed. The questions include "for how long", "starting with what", "importing what", and "exporting what". "off the grid" is completely undefined and therefore the whole question isn't even a question.
I would suggest starting with published analyses of how much land it takes to feed a wandering stone age tribe.-- Voice, Sep 17 2025 Well, you might get one round of modern technology infrastructure with my thoughts on it, but that's not the idea. The idea is for a contest to see how to do this.
A contest is totally possible. A contest to see if you can figure out a way to separate your head from your body and fly around the room using your ears as wings is totally possible. Might something come from the research? Maybe, that's the idea. New methods of neck surgery maybe? Dunno, but that's what makes it interesting.-- doctorremulac3, Sep 17 2025 Suppose there happens to be an oil well on the land?-- pocmloc, Sep 17 2025 Well, good point, that's why I think there has to be a model based maybe on what's the most common. Maybe just the most common traits of land in a particular climate zone. I'd say no oil wells because that's all I'd be using for everything.-- doctorremulac3, Sep 17 2025 //The idea is for a contest to see how to do this. // You haven't defined "this"-- Voice, Sep 17 2025 X Prize For Smallest Self Sustaining Land Area Per Human Inhabitant
1- Outline a human sustaining area of land using various ideas, technologies and methods. Specifically state how much area would be needed.
2- The smallest area wins.
So one entry might be "Vertical farming using solar powered rolling chicken coop. Total area needed to sustain one person: 1/4 acre."
Next might be "Fish pond with chickens. Total area needed 1/3rd acre."
Dunno, but the idea of trying different ideas might lead to new technologies.-- doctorremulac3, Sep 17 2025 //I'm thinking self feeding free roaming chickens would be an efficient source of protein for their eggs and meat, but you'd need 24/7 protection from predators.//
You said "no outside anything". Why are you worrying about predators?
Just kill all the predators, and then there aren't any.
If you're deliberately importing predators to maintain a population, they could be used as a resource to game the system. If they're just 'diffusing' in from the neighbourhood... well, your system is wide open for exploitation. Oh, look, all this stuff just fell off a lorry and rolled over the boundary. Guess we can use that! You're going to need a wall, at the very least.
But chickens are definitely not as energy efficient as growing crops on the land. You might be able to get away with a few to re-use leftovers, but if you're trying to be efficient you won't have many of those either.-- Loris, Sep 17 2025 Well there you go, all potential considerations.
To be clear, no outside stuff not supplied by nature. Rain, wind, sun etc including roaming animals coming onto the property if they're usable. Only thing the contest cares about is the size of the system. You get one round of whatever you need. Maybe not including a nuclear reactor. No nuclear reactors.-- doctorremulac3, Sep 17 2025 // no outside stuff not supplied by nature.// So it has to be built entirely of local available materials and therefore trying it in a French forest is going to require a completely different amount of space than the Gobi Desert? You'll need a standardized starting resource density.-- Voice, Sep 17 2025 No, again, you get one round of bringing in anything you want. Think I said that like 5 times.
I'll try to clarify: Thinks you can't bring in after the initial buildout:
1- Trucks full of food. 2- Anything via DoorDash 3- Pizza delivery 4- Helicopters full of strippers
Okay, you're messing with me at this point. Well played.-- doctorremulac3, Sep 17 2025 I'm not messing with you, I'm trying to point out something that, at this point, I realize you're not interested in understanding. I'll leave off here.-- Voice, Sep 17 2025 Well, I'd like to get it but I don't.
Anyway, to review the incredibly simple idea, it's to see how small an area of land you can outfit such that will sustain one human for decades with only one application of whatever necessary technologies are chosen and then not bringing anything else into that area, only using naturally occurring elements like rain, sun, wind etc. Currently it's 2 to 4 acres so that would be the starting point.
And again: the idea is for a contest, not a specific proposal of how to achieve this.-- doctorremulac3, Sep 17 2025 //Helicopters full of strippers.//
Poor choice as strippers don't provide that many calories.-- RayfordSteele, Sep 17 2025 Remember that movie TheMatrix, and those little cubby-holes they kept humans in?-- sanman, Sep 20 2025 Can't believe I've never seen that movie. I use the "red pill blue pill" thing all the time. Should probably make sure I'm using it right.-- doctorremulac3, Sep 20 2025 random, halfbakery