Half a croissant, on a plate, with a sign in front of it saying '50c'
h a l f b a k e r y
Tastes richer, less filling.

idea: add, search, annotate, link, view, overview, recent, by name, random

meta: news, help, about, links, report a problem

account: browse anonymously, or get an account and write.



Don Quixote Global Cooling

Put Windmills in Antarctica and in the Arctic
  (+8, -1)
(+8, -1)
  [vote for,

And use the energy produced to freeze the water.
theircompetitor, Jan 19 2017

A good use for the iceblocks The_20Igloo_20Pyramid_20Of_20Dome_20Argus
[theircompetitor, Jan 19 2017]

refreezing the arctic https://www.theguar...good-climate-change
[theircompetitor, Feb 15 2017]

Lots of wind over the waters https://www.washing..._term=.d70f729a5818
[theircompetitor, Oct 09 2017]

Cosmic Background Refrigeration Extensive refutations of radiative heat disposal being blocked by the atmosphere. As one more, note that our greenhouse effect quite clearly isn't as strong as Venus's. [notexactly, Mar 15 2018]

Please log in.
If you're not logged in, you can see what this page looks like, but you will not be able to add anything.
Short name, e.g., Bob's Coffee
Destination URL. E.g., http://www.coffee.com/
Description (displayed with the short name and URL.)

       [+] ooh, nice.
FlyingToaster, Jan 19 2017

       That is an excellent idea. The vast amounts of heat coming from the cooling units can presumably be used to .. ah, to...?
MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 19 2017

       heat the universe.
FlyingToaster, Jan 19 2017

       [MB] The vast amounts of heat coming from the cooling units can be cooled with another set of even vaster cooling units, obviously.

I assume that the windmills, through some gearbox mechanism, directly and mechanically drive the refrigerant pumps of the cooling systems (rather than converting wind to electricity and using this to drive refrigeration systems) to minimise the generation of 'waste' heat.
hippo, Jan 19 2017

       Given the very high winds in these areas, and the theoretical suitability of wind energy for energy production, I doubt very much that excess heat from refrigeration should be a problem.   

       But perhaps the excess heat can be used to heat the maintenance crew's cabin :)
theircompetitor, Jan 19 2017

       [+] Passivey.   

       IKEA sell some shelving units suitable for the resulting blocks of ice. Or build an ice pyramid. You want to get those blocks on land to drop the sea level though.   

       Really like the idea of thousands of autonomous ice-makers / dredges around the poles.
bigsleep, Jan 19 2017

       //I doubt very much that excess heat from refrigeration should be a problem// The thermodynamic point was that for every tonne of ice you make, you generate at least enough heat to melt another tonne of ice. And that's the best-case scenario, if your entire system has 100% efficiency.   

       As a simple proof of concept, try leaving your freezer door open overnight.
MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 19 2017

       //And that's the best-case scenario, if your entire system has 100% efficiency//   

       Heat pumps generally have 300% efficiency in thermodynamic terms. With a mechanical system like [hippo] was discussing e.g. stirling cooler, the by-product is heat, but heat (energy) that's taken out of the wind. When wind strikes snow etc and moves little bits around, its energy is converted to heat anyway. Wind is just like ordered (laminar) heat in that all molecules are flowing in one direction.
bigsleep, Jan 19 2017

       //Heat pumps generally have 300% efficiency in thermodynamic terms.//   

       Yes, you're right. But what I meant (as opposed to what I may have said, which is often unreliable) is that _because_ they are heat pumps, all the heat that you pump out of the water to freeze it, will have to go somewhere else.   

       If your heat pump has an efficiency of 300%, then if you freeze 3 tons of water, you will generate enough heat to melt (I think) 4 tons of ice. If your heat pump had an efficiency of Infinite%, then freezing 3 tons of water would still generate enough heat to melt 3 tons of ice.   

       In other words, all the heat you take out of the water to melt it, has to go somewhere - in addition to the heat generated by the system itself.
MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 19 2017

       radiative, right into the 4 Kelvin of the night sky.
FlyingToaster, Jan 19 2017

       //In other words, all the heat you take out of the water to melt it, has to go somewhere - in addition to the heat generated by the system itself.//   

       a) There is no extra heat - its a heat (wind) driven system.   

       b) Think of it like heat taken out of the wind and a little concentrated heat put back. A few square metres of chimney vs a few square miles of wind scouring the land.   

       The energy density of wind is far higher than the temperature of the air, and the heat when put back and diluted by the surroundings is still less than the wind contains. If there were too many ice-makers then sure, you'd build up a weather high zone reducing the wind.
bigsleep, Jan 19 2017

       Why can't you use radiative cooling?
Voice, Jan 19 2017

       [MB] has me half convinced that I could set this up to melt the ice :)
theircompetitor, Jan 19 2017

       //Why can't you use radiative cooling?//   

       Limited range with air around. Better use a chimney effect and deliver waste heat high into the air stream. It's all very well pointing your heat into the blackness of the universe but its going to hit the atmosphere first.
bigsleep, Jan 19 2017

       High-efficiency lasers or masers. When there's no cloud cover, eject the energy directly into space.
8th of 7, Jan 19 2017

       //right into the 4 Kelvin of the night sky.//   

       WP indicates no more than 1% efficiency over pointing the radiator at the ground. You could create an ultra-bright source using light, but then you'd be creating at least 50% heat back where you started, going via electricity. A chimney gets it right off the ground with 90% or more efficiency.
bigsleep, Jan 19 2017

       If that's the case, then just use the windmills to spray water into the air.
FlyingToaster, Jan 19 2017

       You all seem very confused. The windmills drive //cooling units// not heating units. Really it's quite simple.
pocmloc, Jan 19 2017

       Ah yes. That, then, is why the back of a freezer always feels cold, from all the coolth that leaks out.
MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 19 2017

       [pocmloc], a "cooling unit" is a heat pump; it moves the heat from one place to another. The "300% efficient" is a relative measure, based on comparing what a heat pump is capable of (as a heater) with what power it would use if it was just a (100% efficient) heater.
Because the cooling unit is moving heat away from the water (to freeze it), that heat needs to go somewhere. THAT is the problem.
neutrinos_shadow, Jan 19 2017

       There is (I believe, from my tenuous grasp of dermothynamics) that you can never make coolth. You can move it around, but only at the expense of making hotth. This may, however, be fake news.
MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 19 2017

       It is. Black holes can absorb more energy than they radiate.
8th of 7, Jan 19 2017

       Put Bugs Bunny's portable Black Hole directly over/behind/near the heat produced as the big DQ fan cools the poles.   

       Mel Blanc was a genius.
Sgt Teacup, Jan 19 2017

       The back of my freezer always feels cold (on the inside at least)
pocmloc, Jan 19 2017

       [Max] //you can never make coolth// I thought you had a demon who could do this?
hippo, Jan 20 2017

       Comets from outside our bomb calirometer? A slow acquisition of ice cubes for this long tall drink we call Earth.
wjt, Jan 20 2017

       //Comets from outside our bomb calirometer?// Notwithstanding that you generally don't make something cooler by adding loads of superheated steam, I fail to see what octopi have to do with it.
FlyingToaster, Jan 21 2017

       Comets are, supposedly, made of ice. If their kinetic energy is less than the total coolth of the ice, they would increase the net coolth of the planet.   

       Would this be the case? According to the OnLine, comets are typically moving at tens of miles per second. Let's be conservative and assume about 50,000 m/s.   

       Given that both KE and coolth will scale with mass, it doesn't matter what mass we assume for the comet, so let's put it at 1kg. In that case, its KE will be about 1GJ.   

       In contrast, the energy needed to melt 1kg of ice is only about 300kJ, and the energy needed to boil that 1kg of water is about 2500kJ. So, the kinetic energy in even a fairly slow comet is way, way more than enough to melt it, boil it, and superduper-heat the steam.   

       Comets, therefore, will not cool the Earth. They will actually make it a bit hotter.
MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 21 2017

       Shoot a laser with it at a collector in space to charge a satellite battery.
RayfordSteele, Jan 21 2017


       Enough of this pseudo-science, everyone knows cold objects just have a preponderance of negative-charged phlogiston particles.
not_morrison_rm, Jan 21 2017

       "... scientists have hatched a crazy plan to 'refreeze' the Arctic, by installing some 10 million wind-powered pumps over the ice cap to spray sea water over the surface and replenish the sea ice.....lead researcher and Arizona State University physicist, Steven Desch, told The Guardian.!   

       Hmm.....theircompetitor, you did patent this, didn't you?
not_morrison_rm, Feb 15 2017

       gtfo, [not_m] unbelievable :)
theircompetitor, Feb 15 2017

       // pointing your heat into the blackness of the universe but its going to hit the atmosphere first//   

       Not if the heat is sufficiently concentrated
Voice, Oct 11 2017

       It is cheaper if you buy it concentrated.
Ian Tindale, Oct 11 2017

       "Heat pumps generally have 300% efficiency in thermodynamic terms"   

       Use the perimeter of the arctic circle where there is water, and it is almost cold enough to glaciate.   

       Use a heat pump or some other refrigerator to make ice at the surface causing the arctic ice to spread to warmer ocean areas.   

       Walk from Alaska to Russia with ease.
beanangel, Oct 13 2017

       //The vast amounts of heat coming from the cooling units can be cooled with another set of even vaster cooling units, obviously.//   

       My father always cautioned me: "Don't start vast projects with half-vast plans."
AusCan531, Oct 14 2017


back: main index

business  computer  culture  fashion  food  halfbakery  home  other  product  public  science  sport  vehicle