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Secular analogies to the seven sacraments of Catholicism
Deconversion (analogous to Baptism): moment one begins to question dogma and think independently
Analysis (analogous to Confirmation): search for evidence of god and subsequent conclusions derived
Morality (analogous to Penance):
Redefinition of ethics without gods (atheists are nice people!)
Holy Sh!t (analogous to Holy Eucharist): Ability to observe the discrepancy between religion and reality
Death Acceptance (analogous to Extreme Unction): Realization that death is inevitable and not be feared
Apolegetics (analogous to Holy Orders): Dissemination of knowledge pertaining to religious freethought
Marriage (analogous to Matrimony): Mutual emotional union between two persons
Antons Daughters Page
http://www.churchofsatan.org/aslv.html
She discounts Anton, having had a falling out... compares fact and legend [thumbwax, Jun 20 2001, last modified Oct 04 2004]
[link]
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<PostingAgainstMyBetterJudgement> "Believer" versus
"Freethinker" is a false dichotomy. You can believe in God
_and_ be a freethinker. You can be an atheist and
mindlessly spout some nonsense you heard someone else
say. The opposite of both of those is true as well, of
course. </PostingAgainstMyBetterJudgement> |
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Most of the reason people are atheists (or agnostics) is that they just couldn't be bothered with the rituals and paraphernalia and waste of time involved in religious worship. Irrespective of how many voodoo rituals you prescribe for them there will be very few people who go to the trouble of following any of it. |
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Having said that, there is probably a whole coterie of angst-ridden German philosophy students who've already baked this concept. |
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I'm using the analogy to make the observation that there is a process to religious infidelity. I'm not saying that these events should be ritualized; some of these events should probably be kept in secrecy as they happen. For example, a person in a very religious family who announces his deconversion epiphany is unlikely to receive a positive response.
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Over-identify much? Is this Juan the Closet Apostate?
Sorry, but what on *Earth* are you talking about?
Oh, and trust me, Catholics do *not* have all the fun. |
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juan2003 - I think you're on the wrong website. |
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I know several committed Christians who have experienced or participated in Deconversion, Analysis, Death Acceptance, Apologetics, and Marriage as defined in the idea, without ever losing their faith. In fact, most of these things strengthen faith. I would add "Holy Sh!t" to the list if permitted definitions of "religion" and "reality" that I suspect would differ somewhat from juan2003's. And among the Christians I actually know (admittedly, not many Catholics), most believe atheists are nice people. |
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[juan2003] There is a little book out there by a gentleman named Anton Szandor LaVey. You might want to read it. You have come amazingly close to the ideals of Satanism (not the crap you hear about on tv). |
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Right on, waug. I have read (C.S. Lewis?) that a person
doesn't become nice by becoming a Christian, but instead
they become *more* nice than they would have been
otherwise. But since it's relative, *more* nice won't always
be particularly nice by an objective standard. (Please
note that in saying "becoming a Christian" I don't mean
going to church, although that's often a part of it.) |
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waugsqueke: There should be a scheme like the one British MPs (used to?) operate. Christians who think things would be better if more people were Christians (like yourself?) can pair off with atheists who think things would be better if more people were atheists (like me). Then both parties can agree to talk about it only when asked and be content that the practical results are the same. (I also like to talk about Christ.) |
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PeterSealy: Maybe you have your nihilists and your atheists crossed? |
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Well, my understanding is that Buddhists are, strictly speaking, atheists --- they don't believe in god(s). They are religious, though, and do have rituals. |
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I do know a few irreligious people who derive enjoyment and comfort from ritual, sometimes from rituals borrowed from a religious faith. I think it's silly to define an "atheist's ritual" so much in terms of Catholicism, since there are many, many religions in the world, and an irreligious person disbelieves in them all. |
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No wine and crackers, but you are allowed to eat human flesh and drink blood once a week. |
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This bears little resemblance to what your original annotation -- now gone astray -- said. |
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I do hereby withdraw my earlier remarks. I blinked and found myself engaged in what appeared to be drive-by pedantics. My trusty Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, in hand, I leveled my sights upon a most trivial of points, and then... |
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(Enough repititous waffle on these religion topics as it is.) |
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[PS] I think we can agree to disagree the point of rituals being specifically animistic in nature. Perhaps it is time for us to contend on points of minutia that are not baked to begin with. |
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Gary Cooper said, "I don't like it because it isn't on the level". But he may have been talking about something else. |
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Interesting summary of recent research, in yesterday's Washington Post, showing that the religious tend to live longer and better. (Calling Dr. God <http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30449-2001Jul7.html>). So, having become an atheist on rational grounds, it seems the rational thing is to delude myself into belief in a God. Of course, most religions postulate an afterlife that rewards adherents to the faith. So apparently, one of God’s rewards to the faithful is to keep them from their eternal reward a little longer. Seriously though, while a confirmed atheist, I’d rather enjoy some of the ritual of religion in my life. So I’ll vote yes. |
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For those who want church ritual without compromising their atheism, I suggest looking into the Unitarian-Universalist church. The congregation where I grew up had both theists and atheists, as well as all points in between. (There are some UU churches that are definitely Christian, but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule.) |
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The "Unitarian" part of the name refers to a rejection of the doctrine of the Trinity on the part of the church's founders. It's been joked that the Unitarian creed is "There is at most one God". |
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As to wiml's comments about Buddhism: There are distinct Buddhist gods. (Basically, they're Hindu gods translated into Chinese and then left to evolve apart from Hinduism for a few centuries.) They're definitely not the focus of Buddhism, though, and one can be a Buddhist without believing in them or worshipping them. Indeed, worship of gods has been considered to be an obstacle to enlightenment and best avoided. But they do play a significant role in Buddhist mythology. |
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Unitarianism never made much sense to me, but yes, I
suppose if one felt a need for ritual without faith, a
Unitarian church would fit the bill. So this is Baked, in a
sense. |
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