h a l f b a k e r yThese statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.
add, search, annotate, link, view, overview, recent, by name, best, random
news, help, about, links, report a problem
browse anonymously,
or get an account
and write.
register,
|
|
|
It seems to me that if we were to canonise Charles Darwin, recognising him as a saint (or prophet) across all of the Abrahamic faiths (where possible) - we'd be able to do away with a lot of old nonsense.
An updated new testament could probably help things along by including works of literature from
the last 500 years or so - On the Origin of Species (or at least excerpts from the same) would be a pretty good contender, along with other *divinely inspired* works such as Copernicus' "De revolutionibus", additional letters from Galileo Galilei (who probably also deserves some church-provided credit) Other books of the Modern Testament would probably include Newton's Principia Mathematica, Alfred Wegener's "Die Entstehung der Kontinente und Ozeane", Edward Somerset, 2nd Marquess of Worcester's seminal "A Century of the Names and Scantlings of such Inventions, As at Present I can call to mind to have tried and perfected, which (my former Notes being lost) I have, at the instance of a powerful Friend, endeavoured now in the year 1655 to set these down in such a way as may sufficiently instruct me to put any of them in practice." as well as works by Michael Faraday, James Clerk Maxwell, Albert Einstein and Niels Bohr.
Are religions good or bad? Discuss it here.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/overbaked/
[jutta, Jan 29 2009]
Today is Darwin Day!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Day
You see, we already have a public holiday, it's only a matter of time... [zen_tom, Feb 12 2009]
[link]
|
| |
...and the 2008 unabridged Tokyo phone directory. |
|
| |
"The Abridged Works of Simon Winchester"? |
|
| |
Why? Im paraphrasing but when asked about the relevance of his theory of relativity to religion Einstein said it has none, it is purely a human matter. Why should scientific works interfere with religion, in the same way that religion should not interfere with scientific works? |
|
| |
//but when asked about the relevance of his theory of relativity to religion //
But it must do, shirley? How can an omnipresent deity exist in a universe limited by the speed of light? [+] |
|
| |
//Why should scientific works interfere with religion, in the same way that religion should not interfere with scientific works?// There's two *shoulds* in there - what I'm saying is that if it's reasonable for people to posit theological ideas as science, it's also perfectly reasonable to posit scientific ideas as being theological. Just because something is couched in reasoned language doesn't mean it's not true! If St. Darwin wrote the divinely inspired truth - direct from God Himself - who are we to argue with that?! |
|
| |
//How can an omnipresent deity exist in a universe limited by the speed of light?// |
|
| |
You just answered your own question, [copro] (I think): by being omnipresent. |
|
| |
The speed of light is only a factor if you have omniscience without omnipresence; if you happen to exist everywhere at the same time then you aren't limited by the communication across space & time. Perhaps the big G is distributed everywhere... |
|
| |
//If St. Darwin wrote the divinely inspired truth - direct from God Himself - who are we to argue with that?!// |
|
| |
All hail [St. Ben Frost], the most divinely inspired amongst all of us! {Shirley?!} |
|
| |
//if you happen to exist everywhere at the same time then you aren't limited by the communication across space & time.//
Ah! The H2G2 white mice. Merely protrusions into our dimensions of hyper-intelligent, pan-dimensional beings. Gotcha. |
|
| |
//if it's reasonable for people to posit theological ideas as science, it's also perfectly reasonable to posit scientific ideas as being theological// |
|
| |
Herein lies my point. It is not reasonable for people to posit theology as science. If you do that you might as well argue sex can cure cancer. |
|
| |
As big a fan as I am of Darwin, is this a let's all rant masquerading as an idea? |
|
| |
Might be...what I'm advoca...suggesting here is playing the twisty political creationists at their own game - if they want a religious debate, let them have one. We can demand that Evolution is taught in Bible class, orated from the pulpits, read at weddings, Christenings (later to be renamed Darwinings) and funerals - and why? Because Darwin is a Servant of God. And as a holy Prophet, His word is incontrovertible. Everybody wins. |
|
| |
Perhaps reform as cannonise? Somehow clone and grow your own Charles Darwin, complete with beard, and then, when he approaches his iconic decrepitude, hollow the fucker out and stick a massive gun in him, like some Victorian Tetsuo II. |
|
| |
Wouldn't the process of casting an effigy in iron be a tad more efficient a method of making a Darwin cannon? |
|
| |
//Perhaps reform as cannonise?// I'll clone/cast in iron some Charles Darwinses, but first I need to see some St Thomas of Aquinas howitzery from the rest of you guys. |
|
| |
//Perhaps the big G is distributed everywhere...// |
|
| |
Ooh. Maybe he is dark matter (notwithstanding any negative connotations of the word 'dark'). |
|
| |
[+] Compelled to bun this as the church did their bit repressing science. Its the least they could do to start acknowledging some of it rather than the "its nothing to do with us" policy they adopted after their interference became untenable. (Cue holy hand grenade sketch) |
|
| |
//and evolution isn't a belief, it's an idea -- that is starting to go a bit bald// |
|
| |
Think I missed something. Please elucidate. Link ? |
|
| |
//so it must stay in the fashionable and stylish salon of ideas// |
|
| |
That's the point of the idea in turning a "bald idea" into a belief supported by the church i.e. accepting those aspects of science that can be seen as a compatible with religion rather than those that can be bent with french curling tongs. |
|
| |
//Wouldn't the process of casting an effigy in iron be a tad more efficient a method of making a Darwin cannon?// |
|
| |
There's a cast iron theory lurking in there, somewhere. |
|
| |
Great theologians have (and continue to) review the prevalent belief systems of the time. Thomas of Aquinas, Augustine of Hippo, Albert Einstein etc al have all reinterpreted standard doctrine into new and creative ideas in the past, what's to say that can't happen in the future? If it means solving the current intractable theo-political problems of today and purging heretical ideas such as young earth creationism and islamo-fascism, is it really such a problem? Experimentation (history) shows that it has always worked that way, why not continue a winning formula? |
|
| |
//Think I missed something. Please elucidate. Link //
Did anyone do the Missing Link gag yet? |
|
| |
//Mass society is *potentially* a huge engine of unique individual subjectivity// my *stresses*
//if freed from the enslaving dogmas of belief you advocate, and that are advocated by islamo-fascists and creationists.// Dogma will always exist, and if enslaving is what dogma does, then that's what it does. If we accept that it's always going to be with us, isn't it in our interests (and about time) we moulded it into something a little more up to date? If we enshrined the beliefs of freedom, democracy, evolution and free-thinking into scripture, is that necessarily a bad thing? It avoids the tricky trap of moral relativism (because it's all written down in an authoritative work) and it allows for reinterpretation in the same way that everything in the existing religious works (and to a lesser extent, founding scientific works) are open to reinterpretation. At the same time, those who choose to accept blindly the articles of faith on authority can continue to do so only without all the outdated medieval nonsense. |
|
| |
"And god set the planets into rotation around the sun so that all have the same value of T^2/R^3. This was later confirmed by Johannes Kepler." |
|
| |
"The Church" hasn't always been a pro-statusquotic entity, it has been undergoing change since its inception - why change now? |
|
| |
People who have been brought up to believe one thing over another aren't stupid, they're just conditioned - do you really want that to continue? And shouldn't you care about these "stupid people" if they hold political power? |
|
| |
//hollow the fucker out and stick a massive gun in him// [marked-for-tagline], shirley? |
|
| |
To believe that today's second, is the equivalent of yesterday's second, is equivalent to tomorrow's second is complete farce. |
|
| |
To me this represents a model that both religion and science can converge upon. Rabbi/priest/Immum believe in 6000 yrs since inception of earth. That would be 6000 yrs of the *current* measurement of time/years *from the surface of the earth*. |
|
| |
It is quite probable, and in fact more than likely, that the earth itself, and ergo its surface, has not undergone a constant gravitational force in any direction. It is far more likely that we find ourselves in an epoch that represents only a part of what the earth has, and will, gravitationally speaking, encounter. |
|
| |
Since we know that gravity and acceleration are equivalent, we can presume that time has been dilated and/or contracted according to the forces acting on the earth, at any time. There is absolutely NO evidence to suggest that this has been a constant throughout the history of the earth. It, therefore, becomes possible for an obsever of this system to pronounce, and communicate, 6000 (of their years) have passed, whilst innumerable years of the observed have passed. Or indeed (as you may point out) visa versa. |
|
| |
A great theoretical physcist once remarked that the whole of history was written on the back of a single photon. This is probably somewhat flippant, but does illustrate the fact that relativity reduces some paradoxes to mundane trivia. |
|
| |
//Rabbi/priest/Immum believe in 6000 yrs since inception of earth.// |
|
| |
... waiting for punchline. |
|
| |
But seriously folks, god could quite easily create a billion years of history bosh, bosh, bosh plasterer style. No need for trying to make physics fit - he created it. Time flies when you are having fun. |
|
| |
I really think the gist of the idea is valid. The closer faith and science are, the less problems (may I say schisms?) there will be. |
|
| |
I know that saying G*D has a frame of reference, is heresy. But saying so does provide a good explaination of why *current* frames of reference may differ from a) the past, b) the future, and c) an observer. |
|
| |
Back to the idea... I seriously doubt Darwin would appreciate the sentiment. Here's an excerpt from his autobiography that might be instructive: |
|
| |
This argument would be a valid one if all men of all races had the same inward conviction of the existence of one God; but we know that this is very far from being the case. Therefore I cannot see that such inward convictions and feelings are of any weight as evidence of what really exists. The state of mind which grand scenes formerly excited in me, and which was intimately connected with a belief in God, did not essentially differ from that which is often called the sence of sublimity; and however difficult it may be to explain the genesis of this sence, it can hardly be advanced as an argument for the existence of God, any more than the powerful though vague and similar feelings excited by music. |
|
| |
Nor must we overlook the probability of the constant inculcation in a belief in God on the minds of children producing so strong and perhaps an inherited effect on their brains not yet fully developed, that it would be as difficult for them to throw off their belief in God, as for a monkey to throw off its instinctive fear and hatred of a snake.[7] |
|
| |
I cannot pretend to throw the least light on such abstruse problems. The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble to us; and I for one must be content to remain an Agnostic. |
|
| |
Like some others, I was hoping that this would involve a cannon. Perhaps parked outside of the Natural History museum & aimed directly across the entrance. There should be a big warning sign by the gate so that nobody can be in any doubt that it is using live ammo and is fired off on the hour, every hour. Anybody foolish enough to ignore the sign and be caught in the blast would provide a living (well, not living anymore obviously) illustration of the theory of natural selection. I'm terribly disappointed to find that this is not the case. |
|
| |
They cannonized Hunter Thompson, didn't they? |
|
| |
//The closer faith and science are, the less problems (may I say schisms?) there will be.// Are you sure? Things that are completely different from and far away from each other rarely cause each other problems. I don't see why science has to pretend to be religion, or vice versa. Shirley the two are completely different. Science can explain lots of physical things happening in the Universe. Religion can explain what happens 'outside' . The two don't have to compete do they? |
|
| |
guess its like the impossibility of having RealMedia and QuickTime both in charge of your computer at the same time. |
|
| |