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Heavier, Slower Ammunition

Increased lethality through silenced weaponry that doesn't sacrifice firepower
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First let me say I know the fishbones are coming because this is yet another invention in an unpopular field: weaponry

Before I throw my idea out there let me first start with a few facts about firearms the readers may or may not be aware of:

1)Adding a silencer or suppressor will can reduce the noise made by a firearm but can do nothing to silence the miniature sonic boom that causes an audible "crack" that makes the suppressor pointless unless one is using subsonic ammunition
2)Prime candidates for suppressors are usually pistols or submachineguns(which happen to use pistol ammunition) because little stopping power is lost by slowing down a pistol round to a subsonic speed
3)Rifles (both assault rifles and sniper rifles) depend on a small round going very fast (well above sonic speeds)
4)Once rifle rounds are slowed down to subsonic they lose much of their beneficial characteristics: Superior range, penetration and accuracy

That being said, this idea involves modelling a new round after (what I think) is the ideal ammunition for silencing, the .45 calibre pistol round. It is known for it's superior stopping power and "nail-driving" accuracy compared to other pistols. Another terrific characteristic is that it is naturally subsonic so no reduction in velocity is needed.

Now the jist of the idea is to make a scaled up version of this round along with a rifle specifically made for it, that has an integrated silencer similar to the MP5SD. This weapon would (hopefully) offer a marksman a long range weapon with devasting energy transference without the worries of alerting the opposition.
scott_r_uber, Nov 08 2005

Kinetic Pulse? http://www.kineticpulse.us/math/kp.html
The man uses slugs, which for once seems appropriate... [ldischler, Nov 08 2005]

Been there, done that... http://www.rifleman...DeLisle_carbine.htm
Brittish SAS troops used this in WWII [Navy_Guns, Nov 09 2005]

(??) The Extreme End of the Scale? http://members.trip...euss42/16tonwei.jpg
Brittish SAS troops didn't use this in WWII [Navy_Guns, Nov 09 2005]

For [xenzag] Universal_20Barrett_20M821A_20Remote
Well, I thought it did something interesting, anyway. [Shz, Nov 09 2005]

The .17 Remington http://www.gunsanda...n/the_17_remington/
300 yards is a stretch whereas things like the .308 are used for 1,000 meter. [bristolz, Nov 09 2005]

[link]






       true I suppose..but wouldn't the inertia of the heavier round have a positive effect on range? My physics is a little fuzzy at best
scott_r_uber, Nov 08 2005
  

       At least it's not DU.   

       Rail guns perhaps would perform. But there's still the signature. I hope I'm off this rock before The End.
Zimmy, Nov 08 2005
  

       Big like a house?
daseva, Nov 08 2005
  

       The range of the weapon, as UB says, is dependant on the velocity as it will still be acted apon by gravity. On a perfectly level plane a bullet fored from 1.5m high will always hit the ground after (about) 0.3s.   

       The velocity of the bullet therfore depends on how far it can travel before it hits the ground and the faster it goes, obviously, the further it can get.   

       After 0.3s it will have also deviated by 1.5m and so you will have missed the target. to keep accuracy that time is seriously reduced.   

       Nice idea, bad science.
miasere, Nov 08 2005
  

       Round would lose penetrating power.
Antegrity, Nov 08 2005
  

       I was thinking this would be a hammer or something.   

       If you want to get rid of the "crack," suggest some silent launching mechanism, such as a rail gun. Oh, wait, second thoughts, please don't.
DrCurry, Nov 08 2005
  

       It's already been done. The best sniper rifle fires a fifty caliber round, and has no silencer, as its range is over a mile. Look it up - it's called a Barrett M82A1 .50 Caliber 'Light Fifty'. Apart from that, inventing new weapons is just boring, unless they do interesting things, which this doesn't really.
xenzag, Nov 08 2005
  

       The heavier round could help slightly since it would reduce air resistance effects. Although the recoil would also be increased.   

       You could always fire miniature rockets (which acted against gravity) to keep the range up. Or just include a handy range finder and inclination look-up table with your mor^h^h^hgun.
Loris, Nov 08 2005
  

       I can throw an eight pound brick, or equivalent stone, about 75 yards with a sling. Works best if you are aiming down hill. Accuracy? I can land the rock in or near that patch of trees down there. Lethality? Well, if something is under the rock, it's gonna take a quite a wallop. I don't think I've ever killed anything, but I have torn some limbs off trees and scared the bejeezus out of a few deer.
lurch, Nov 08 2005
  

       I can shoot a one ounce watermelon seed, or equivalent pumpkin seed, about 150 yards with only the pressure of two apposing parts of my body. Accuracy? I'll put your eye out and laugh like a loon! Lethality? I kill stuff all the time, without even trying. Yeah! So there!   

       Croissant!
bungston, Nov 08 2005
  

       First let me say I know the fishbones are coming because a slower, more massive bullet is less lethal and less accurate.
DesertFox, Nov 09 2005
  

       DeLisle Carbine (see Link) - I was so entrigued by the weapon that I went ahead and built my own non-silenced version from a SMLE No.4 Mk 1 with a 20" heavy barrel. I wish I could post a picture it turned out so nice. Yes, I can place normal .45 ACP rounds more accurately since it has a scope, but the real fun is in increasing the horsepower, not slowing it down and silencing it. I handload ammo that shoots a 230 grain bullet at 1575 fps - never want to accidentally shoot that in a pistol.   

       I also handload 12 gauge shotgun slugs - 525 grains of lead at ~1,700 fps... You could decrease the load to make it subsonic if you really wanted to - kind of like a fishing sinker from hell.   

       Basically the slow&heavy concept can be incredibly devastating - just ask the folks shot during the American Civil War. A 500+ grain soft lead slug at subsonic velocities packs a big punch.
Navy_Guns, Nov 09 2005
  

       //Yeah, that's why they use .17 calibre rifles, with 3800fps muzzle velocity to shoot elephants.//

It would have to be a very skinny elephant to fit inside the barrel of a .17 calibre rifle. Or do they slide the elephant into the barrel trunk first and leave the main body poking out of the end like with rifle grenades?
DrBob, Nov 09 2005
  

       They use .17 for large game? That's just weird. The .220 Swift and the rare .220 Rocket are even faster then the .17 and they are considered a small game or "varmint" round. Exceptionally accurate, though, except easily deflected by twigs, leaves and wind.
bristolz, Nov 09 2005
  

       ?
bristolz, Nov 09 2005
  

       [DrBob], I've never shot an elephant before, and if that's the rig I'm expected to use, I'm going to stick to shooting fish.
normzone, Nov 09 2005
  

       //general infantry uses .556// Not unless they also employ beaters and bearers. I think you meant 5.56mm.
lurch, Nov 10 2005
  

       Ooops. I don't ever mean to carve anyone, especially my UnaBubba.
bristolz, Nov 10 2005
  

       feh, as usual, the majority of the things I think of while drunk shouldn't be let out for the rest of the world to hear. God I hate having so little of a life that I get drunk just to make HB more entertaining
scott_r_uber, Nov 10 2005
  

       I wouldn't be so harsh on yourself, Scott. There exists a range of rounds called "whisper", the most popular of which is the .300 whisper, which is a .223 (5.56mm) round necked out to fire a very heavy .300" bullet, at subsonic velocity.   

       It can be supressed quite nicely (BTW silencing subsonic heavy gauge weapons is easy: 7.62mm bore is smaller than a .45 bore, for which many supressor designs exist.....).   

       Same company makes .500 whisper rounds for supressed sniper rifles. A big, heavy round with a very precise trajectory means no accuracy problems out to several hundred yards. A 350 odd grain .50 calibre bullet even at subsonic velocities has no trouble penetrating body armour. think about a .50 cal (M2) round at about two miles or so range.
Custardguts, May 11 2006
  

       Check out the 0.50 Beowulf, a rather new addition. It's rated for dangerous game, like bear <although I'll never understand why someone would want to shoot a bear :( >
Custardguts, Mar 11 2008
  

       (marked-for-tagline) Gravity works whether you like it or not
normzone, Mar 11 2008
  
      
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