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LGBTQIAH

It's a thing
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(+1, -3)
  [vote for,
against]

We're running out of letters so now's the time.
DenholmRicshaw, Aug 04 2017

Two spirits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, Aug 05 2017]

"Indian" in a former life http://www.manataka.org/page1113.html
Cultural appropriation [nineteenthly, Aug 05 2017]

LGTB and NAH Rights It was a thing last year too [bigsleep, Aug 06 2017]

[link]






       Is there room for ECHS* too ... ?   

       *Evil Collective Hegemonising Swarm
8th of 7, Aug 04 2017
  

       You can't have H, it's already taken.
DenholmRicshaw, Aug 04 2017
  

       Can't we just Assimilate it ?
8th of 7, Aug 04 2017
  

       A means Asexual, apparently. So, no, you can't have that either. I don't make the rules.
DenholmRicshaw, Aug 04 2017
  

       Well that's your problem, not ours. We want it, and if anyone wants to try and take it off us, they'd better be prepared to fight for it. And we have guns. Big, big guns ...
8th of 7, Aug 04 2017
  

       Hermaphrodite?
LimpNotes, Aug 04 2017
  

       Heckler & Koch ...
8th of 7, Aug 04 2017
  

       H for Half (although someone proposed H for heterosexual)
DenholmRicshaw, Aug 04 2017
  

       What about U for un-imprinted/un-orientated? Or should that be Y?
wjt, Aug 04 2017
  

       I agree that the acronym, which I know as QUILTBAG, is too long, which is why I use GSM - Gender and Sexual Minorities.
nineteenthly, Aug 04 2017
  

       All very well, apart from the small detail that GSM is already in widespread use to denote "Global System for Mobile communication" ...
8th of 7, Aug 04 2017
  

       There are lots of ambiguous TLAs. Bacon, Lettuce and Tomato. GSM pre-dates that. It's from the '60s.
nineteenthly, Aug 05 2017
  

       Presumably, once we've included the full A-to-Z it'll encompass everyone and we can just return to using "people".
MaxwellBuchanan, Aug 05 2017
  

       Q ?..   

       QU - Queer/Questioning   

       I - Intersex   

       L - Lesbian   

       T - Trans (no star nowadays, so both Tucute and Truscum plus that mythical being the transvestite)   

       B - Bisexual   

       A - Asexual and Allies   

       G - Gay.   

       It annoys me. It needs to be short and stable.
nineteenthly, Aug 05 2017
  

       Yes, but why is an acronym needed at all? I'm not generally interested in anyone's sexual/gender orientation, and if I am interested in the orientation of a particular person, it's no use giving them an acronym that embraces every possibly sexuality and gender.   

       To take an analogy: I don't normally care what someone's profession is. If I do care about one person's profession, I want them to tell me "I'm a chartered surveyer", rather than "I'm a member of the CSMWH* community."   

       (*chartered surveyors, metalworkers and horticulturalists).   

       In other words, why on earth does anyone think it necessary to have a special acronym for all gender/orientation combinations?
MaxwellBuchanan, Aug 05 2017
  

       Because it's so much easier to nurture an irrational prejudice against someone you can stick a tidly little label on.   

       // A - Asexual and Allies //   

       ... and Aliens and the Assimilated ?
8th of 7, Aug 05 2017
  

       //why on earth does anyone think it necessary to have a special acronym for all gender/orientation combinations?//   

       quite - in fact the suggestion to add H for Heterosexual is an opportunity to use a convenient, well understood, pre-existing word: people.
DenholmRicshaw, Aug 05 2017
  

       abhetero ?
FlyingToaster, Aug 05 2017
  

       What about "P" ? That could stand for "Politicians", who are obvious and easy things to hate.   

       What's more, they're totally undeserving of any sort of tolerance, understanding or sympathy; "Acceptance" consists of a lamp-post and a length of hemp rope, rather than breaking all their limbs with pickaxe handles, extracting their eyeballs with a blunt spoon, then stuffing them into a damp Wicker Man so that they slowly char to death over a period of days.
8th of 7, Aug 05 2017
  

       That would confuse the meaning of buying P.
wjt, Aug 05 2017
  

       People who do not belong are frequently called "Normative." Just encompass those who belong as "Nons" or maybe "Abs".
LimpNotes, Aug 05 2017
  

       I foresee trouble.   

       As far as I am aware (which is usually not very if I can help it), the entire spectrum of people with disabilities has yet to empower themselves with a full set of acronyms. Sooner or later, they'll wake up to the fact that the gender spectrum is claiming all the good letters, and they'll be fighting back. It's not going to be pretty.
MaxwellBuchanan, Aug 05 2017
  

       //I foresee trouble.//

Yes, I suppose there is a stigma with the terms. Something less stigmatized then. "Enigma" or such.
LimpNotes, Aug 05 2017
  

       // why is an acronym needed at all?   

       This is a question worthy of your further investigation.
tatterdemalion, Aug 05 2017
  

       ... or "YFI" as it will no doubt henceforward be known.
8th of 7, Aug 05 2017
  

       " People who do not belong are frequently called "Normative."   

       Thanks, [LimpNotes]. That is true, but do you have to rub it in ?
normzone, Aug 05 2017
  

       "cryptosexual"
FlyingToaster, Aug 05 2017
  

       I kind of dig the local native two-spirit take on the whole gender topic. [link]   

       That's available to some people who have a certain cultural heritage but not, for example, to people of WASP origin. What's available to me is my Scottish/English white Protestant cultural heritage.
nineteenthly, Aug 05 2017
  

       True. In a way it's nice to be removed from any cultural biases and be able to weigh any new concept you come across on its own merits.   

       ...and with that thought I'm going to bed.   

       [MB], there's certainly a question of whether there's a unified set of interests. For instance, the idea of same- sex marriage only seems to serve the agenda of those who believe marriage is a good thing, and possibly wealthy gay men who want that final badge of acceptance in polite society, as it were, when the rest of us are often pretty sceptical about it. However, there's also the problem of divide and conquer.   

       Why's it needed? Because there's an unfolding and refolding process, is how I see it. So in a sense I agree - approach the alphabet and fold it up again, but it's a process. It doesn't happen instantly.
nineteenthly, Aug 05 2017
  

       But, two good things about GSM:   

       Firstly, it's shorter, because having an acronym eight letters long is inelegant and ostentatious, and draws attention to something which should just be a short initialism like BME (which is also annoying to me BTW but then I'm probably not BME myself, at least in England).   

       Secondly, it's descriptive rather than evaluative. QUILTBAG is usually about serving the interests of people falling underneath those initials, which I agree with to a considerable extent although I also think certain individuals build a powerbase there. Sometimes that powerbase is also fine because it compensates for a lack of power they have had in the past, but sometimes it has its own momentum and ceases to serve the interests of the majority of people. GSM traditionally includes groups which are currently practically universally deprecated such as paedophiles, and whereas I don't consider paedophilia to be a good thing at all, the point is that there is no connotation of approval or disapproval in the acronym. It's more neutral.
nineteenthly, Aug 05 2017
  

       I dunno. I think that if acronyms are used by people outside the acronym subset, to label those within it, then someone ought to say "Oh for fuck's sake get over it."   

       Conversely, if acronyms are used by people inside the acronym subset, to label themselves, then someone ought to say "Oh for fuck's sake get over it."   

       In 99% of situations, I am no more interested in your gender identity or sexual orientation than I am your choice of breakfast cereal. To be otherwise would be an unhealthy obsession.
MaxwellBuchanan, Aug 06 2017
  

       Wait... "Queer" already describes all the types. Q. What is clearly needed is a taxonomy of gender stereotypes. Akin to those found in biology. And a class system while we're at it. Certainly homosexuals will find themselves at the top, being largely narcissists and histrionics, gods as you were, and pedophiles find their place at the bottom just under bestial types.
LimpNotes, Aug 06 2017
  

       Where do incest and paraphilias fit on your scale, [Limp] ? Just askin' ...   

       It sounds very like the Indian "caste" system - discriminatory, oppressive, unfair, inflexible and insidious. Very good, carry on.
8th of 7, Aug 06 2017
  

       <rant>

Funny, I almost used the word "caste". And now I'm reviewing wiki's list of paraphilias in confusion. But my point of course, is that there is some hypocrisy to the movement, and an emergence of cluster B type psychology.

As has been hinted, only an asshole would obsess about the intimate preferences of another, but I declare it takes an even bigger asshole to insist that others obsess. The whole pronoun controversy is a clue. Pronouns are not used when you talk to someone. They are used when you talk *about* someone. The pronoun controversy is essentially: "when you talk about me, you must use the words I have chosen", which is ridiculous.

As for mis-gendering. I don't see the big deal. I wear my hair long and have a sweet booty, so on several occasions I have been mistaken for a woman when approached from behind. And when I turn, and after an awkward exchange, the issue is clarified and quickly dismissed. I can understand how someone could make that mistake, I'm talking seriously sweet booty here, and am comfortable enough with myself that my ego is not in need of defense, so there is no offense.

Then I look around and I see a whole bunch of real issues that need addressing. But all anyone is engrossed in is gender and being offended and the smallest slights and it makes me angry. What a waste of human attention.

I sincerely wish that those involved in these movements would learn to love and accept themselves. And I do believe there are some who use the movement for their own manipulations, in the same way that Reverend Jackson uses the Blacks.

I'm talking about people who shepherd the victim mentality. The victim mentality is a simple way of not taking responsibility for our own emotions and life. No one was liberated whilst they clung to their victim-hood. The victim needs a persecutor, and the whole movement stinks of persecution complex and narcissistic manipulation.

I second the statement that almost no one seriously cares. Just because someone feels like a victim doesn't mean that they are. Just because someone claims to be a victim doesn't mean that they are. And I've never seen good come out of catering to professional victims.

</end rant>
LimpNotes, Aug 06 2017
  

       <HTML_pedantry>   

       It should be "</rant>", not "</end rant>" ...   

       </HTML_pedantry>
8th of 7, Aug 06 2017
  

       <HTML_meta_pedantry>

I think you mean "&lt;/rant&gt;" and "&lt;/end rant&gt;", otherwise it won't display properly on a system which parses fake HTML tags

</HTML_meta_pedantry>
hippo, Aug 07 2017
  

       We know that. We were referring to the specific example in the annotation, not the general principle.
8th of 7, Aug 07 2017
  

       But you were using fake HMTL tags yourself, and thus assuming the presence of a system which parsed those tags, which implies the need to make your 'example' tags non-parsable, as I suggested. I should really get on and do some work.
hippo, Aug 07 2017
  

       I can only talk about my own stuff because I'm not anyone else, and I'm not planning to continue this discussion, so I'll say one final thing. If someone thinks a society in which there are no gender role and image distinctions, i.e. everyone is free to do whatever they want without sanction or disapproval, would make gender dysphoria better, they don't understand what it is. It would make it worse. If it isn't obvious why it would make it worse, the chances are you're confusing it with something else.   

       Gender is class, with women roughly corresponding to the proletariat and men to the bourgeoisie. Gender identity is not gender.   

       There, I'm done.
nineteenthly, Aug 07 2017
  

       I just call it the Alphabet Community.
21 Quest, Aug 07 2017
  

       //I should really get on and do some work.//   

       Steady on!
pertinax, Aug 08 2017
  

       //Gender is class, with women roughly corresponding to the proletariat and men to the bourgeoisie.//   

       If I didn't know you better, [xix], I'd say that was a bit of an existential cop-out, to position yourself neatly on the Right Side of History. ;-P   

       Wait. On my phone display, that text emoticon just split itself over two lines. How can I stop it doing that? Arg.
pertinax, Aug 08 2017
  

       // and men to the bourgeoisie.//   

       Aristocracy, shirley ... ?
8th of 7, Aug 08 2017
  

       Let's add 'C' for cat and 'D' for Dog. And while we are about it how about numbers...   

       LGBTQIAHCD87   

       I thank you...
DenholmRicshaw, Aug 08 2017
  

       // There, I'm done. //   

       And you've probably left those who already agree with you going "yes!" and those who don't going "huh?", so I think you've accomplished nothing unless you explain further.
notexactly, Sep 07 2017
  

       P & V should do it...Penis - Vagina. Those that have both items can still use this. P or V / P&V.
xandram, Sep 08 2017
  
      
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