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Move Seoul

build another city further away from PDRK
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(+5, -2)
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Seoul is about 40 kilometers from the Korean DMZ. This gives the crazy man across the boarder something to threaten: the ten million residents are essentially hostages. to Kim Jong's threats.

I propose that a New Seoul be built far out of artillery range from North Korea including all infrastructure, offices, stores, warehouses, schools, and industry and that residents be given an incentive to move.

Voice, Jun 12 2010

more threats http://www.nytimes..../asia/13nkorea.html
SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea renewed its threats on Saturday to destroy South Korean propaganda loudspeakers, vowing a “merciless strike” that could turn Seoul into “a sea of flame.” [Voice, Jun 12 2010]

Missile, not artillery. http://www.fas.org/...rk/missile/nd-1.htm
[mouseposture, Jun 12 2010]

Six minutes to midnight. http://www.thebulle...sday-clock/timeline
[rcarty, Jun 12 2010]

“The World's Most Unusual Outsourcing Destination” http://www.pcworld....ng_destination.html
[Ian Tindale, Jun 13 2010]

[link]






       Move the crazy man.   

       Put him on the moon with 10 million loudspeakers.
lurch, Jun 12 2010
  

       s/artillery range/missile range/ <link>
If my arithmetic's right, Seoul would have to be relocated right out of Korea. A very half-baked idea indeed.
mouseposture, Jun 12 2010
  

       Japan's not a viable location, either. North Korea launched a missile *over* Okinawa when I was living there.   

       However, the point is moot. North Korea threatens war every time sombody tells them something they don't like. They wouldn't dare attempt a crossing of the DMZ, not with the American presence they'd have to go through.
21 Quest, Jun 12 2010
  

       Not unheard of, really... throughout the long history of the Earth many ancient cities were relocated when apocalyptic earth changes forced rivers to re-route themselves.   

       But then again...   

       Moving an entire population of people thousands of miles may seem excessive to those who think a much easier solution is just to take out the nutty little tyrant with the Don King bouffant. (a bun for gumption [+] )
Grogster, Jun 12 2010
  

       Alternatively, move Seoul *closer* If you can get it close enough to Pyongyang, that should protect it against WMDs, at least.   

       //They wouldn't dare attempt a crossing of the DMZ, not with the American presence they'd have to go through.// Infantry, sure. Artillery shells, I hear, aren't frightened of anything.
mouseposture, Jun 12 2010
  

       I bet their gunners are.
21 Quest, Jun 12 2010
  

       //I bet their gunners are// frightened of American counterbattery fire, yes. Of crossing the DMZ, no, not if all they're ordered to do is blackmail the South Korean government by lobbing shells at Seoul.   

       Edit: I perceive my error. By "crossing" I understood "advancing across." You meant something closer to "violating."
mouseposture, Jun 12 2010
  

       From wikipedia "the Republic of Korea Armed Forces is one of the largest standing armed forces in the world with a reported personnel strength of 3,695,000 in 2008 (655,000 active force and 3,040,000 regular reserve).... I would think that it was very unwise to annoy them too much. They also have nuclear weapons and a small android in a brown suit with a brain the size of a walnut, whose every word they must obey to the letter.
xenzag, Jun 12 2010
  

       Well sure they have lots of people. All armed with outdated weaponry and crammed into a tiny peninsula with few ways to get them off it. This is what I refer to as a target rich environment. A few MOABs should make short work of them. Bring it, Kimmy.
21 Quest, Jun 12 2010
  

       This relocated Seoul you refer to — we could call it R. Seoul for short — could perhaps be located in Afghanistan.
Ian Tindale, Jun 12 2010
  

       Or just take out the "u" and move the "e" on all the maps. When the North decides to launch the attack, they'll ignore the unimportant, never-been-heard-of "Sole" and spend months trying to find out where the dastardly clever South Koreans hid their capital.
21 Quest, Jun 12 2010
  

       That's not entirely accurate, morrison. The mandatory conscription is only for 2 years, and many military fields provide excellent training for the civilian job market, such as communications specialists, aircraft flight and maintenance crews, security forces, logistics and supply, foreign language translators, civil engineering, heavy equipment operators, etc. Mind you, not all of these fields are going to make you a millionaire, but I would debate, at length, the assertion that any job in the military doesn't provide you with training that can be applied to honest civilian work, with the possible exception of aerial gunners. Even munitions handlers learn to drive a forklift, which is pretty marketable.
21 Quest, Jun 13 2010
  

       I teach a lot of project management, and students frequently ask, as one did last week, if I have a military background. I don’t (unless you count the Boy’s Brigade when I was young).
Ian Tindale, Jun 13 2010
  

       [morrison_rm]//none of the people in the DPRK would have any really useful skill//
I have a notion that, following reunification, the "aunties" (is that the right word?) who created the North Korean grey market would rip through the South Korean economy like a chainsaw. Those women are *real* entrepreneurs: they do what they must or their families starve. In the West, we haven't seen rapacity like that since the days of Rockefeller, at least. But I can't claim to have discussed this idea with any South Koreans.
mouseposture, Jun 13 2010
  

       The problem with the vast numbers of homeless isn't that servicemen aren't trained in a marketable field. Its that they don't want to work in the fields they're trained in. Former infantrymen go hungry because they're trying to land high- paying office jobs that, you're right, they aren't trained for, and feel that they're above such lowly work as security guards or law enforcement. I'm convinced that, in the majority of cases, the lack of employment is due to an unwillingness to take what jobs are available. I actually agree with mandatory 2 year conscription. 2 years is not too much for your nation to ask. It's your own family and home that you're protecting, after all.
21 Quest, Jun 13 2010
  

       Should I, shouldn't I?   

       Aw screw it.
I wanted to join the air-force when I was younger. I wanted to fly jets but I'm flat footed, near sighted, and it looked like I wouldn't break 5' 8" there for a while so three strikes, I was outta there. All of those things have since changed but I think my chance at flying jets has passed by at about mach 9.
  

       Here's the thing though, I just wanted to fly jets.
If Canada were under attack I'd probably be there with my 22 and slingshot if that was all I had, but if they tried to make me go to a foriegn country and kill people...well, then they'd have to find me first.
  

       //conscript Harisu// Shirly Harisu could do the same sort of work Ronald Regan did during his military service?
mouseposture, Jun 14 2010
  

       Perhaps there is an advantage to having Seoul close to the border. Those antiartillery shellkiller lasers have a smaller area to cover.
bungston, Jun 14 2010
  

       Close proximity may also deter nuclear missile strike.
rcarty, Jun 15 2010
  

       …in favour of sonic attack.
Ian Tindale, Jun 15 2010
  

       //in favour of sonic attack.// Quick show of hands - who is aware of Hawkwind's "song" of the same name? Come to mention it, have we talked about this before - it feels like a familiar conversational node.
zen_tom, Jun 15 2010
  

       Surround North Korea with "Iron Dome" rockets and then take it over and free its people by inserting a normal Ill replacement, so they continue bowing down to the leader, but slowly are released from their subduing behavior, and learn how to think for themselves and cooperate with the rest of the world, by the new leader's decree.
pashute, Dec 11 2012
  

       One could do this gradually, with zoning: compel all new buildings to be on the far side of Seoul from the border. Little by little Seoul will creep away. Sort of like orthodontics.
bungston, Dec 19 2012
  

       Move it stealthily, and don't publicise the new location, forcing North Korea to do some Seoul searching.
spidermother, Dec 19 2012
  
      
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