Half a croissant, on a plate, with a sign in front of it saying '50c'
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Pay per not view current politician, good for 4 years

  (+3, -4)
(+3, -4)
  [vote for,
against]

Some way to superimpose a pic of someone else - anyone else - over the orange faced one on TV news.

The superimposition also runs to audio, which says things "Mexico is a wonderful place", "Today is Be Nice to a Moslem Day" etc

Or did this happen 20 years ago and I've only just cottoned on to it?

not_morrison_rm, Nov 11 2016

Why Trump won https://www.youtube...watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs
[Voice, Nov 11 2016]

We need the opposite of this Consensus_20Chamber
Consensus Chamber [ixnaum, Nov 12 2016]

The future of American politics https://www.youtube...watch?v=sGUNPMPrxvA
[doctorremulac3, Nov 12 2016]

Our most watched TV show https://www.youtube...watch?v=wAg1r6zw7Bg
[doctorremulac3, Nov 12 2016]

Old lady being assaulted https://www.youtube...watch?v=htOj50B7dNk
[doctorremulac3, Nov 13 2016]

Young girl being attacked https://www.youtube...watch?v=Wt5khltTGpU
[doctorremulac3, Nov 13 2016]

Old man being attacked https://www.youtube...watch?v=YNClFJ6BRJA
[doctorremulac3, Nov 13 2016]

Truck set on fire for having Trump bumper stickers https://www.youtube...watch?v=Z1UG5-eXles
[doctorremulac3, Nov 13 2016]

Guy getting punched in the face for walking out of a Trump event. https://www.youtube...watch?v=QQmbn7ndvZQ
[doctorremulac3, Nov 13 2016]

Etc... https://www.youtube...watch?v=ywDvXmeVfoE
[doctorremulac3, Nov 13 2016]

Etc... https://www.youtube...watch?v=uYZ0VtdIofE
[doctorremulac3, Nov 13 2016]

The Triangle 2005 miniseries https://youtu.be/cgmCxYKZaB0?t=2104
conflicting realities [not_morrison_rm, Nov 13 2016]

SPLC https://www.splcent...dation-election-day
a running catalog... [RayfordSteele, Nov 14 2016]

See the anti-Muslim section http://www.alternet...ps-hateful-rhetoric
[RayfordSteele, Nov 14 2016]

More... http://www.independ...ction-a7410166.html
[RayfordSteele, Nov 14 2016]

Trump saying stop the violence. https://www.youtube...watch?v=WDM5EWieJzg
Has Hillary said anything? Maybe so, but I haven't seen it. [doctorremulac3, Nov 15 2016]

Hemochromatosis http://www.rightdia...romatosis/intro.htm
Yellow or orange skin [Voice, Nov 15 2016]

Did he say them or not? https://www.washing...y-say-those-things/
Even in context, he's still a pig. [RayfordSteele, Nov 16 2016]

On immigrants and crime... https://www.washing...migrants-and-crime/
Yeah not so much, Voice. [RayfordSteele, Nov 16 2016]

In cartoon form http://redpanels.com/299
[Voice, Nov 17 2016]

Exploding head sequence from sci- fi horror film 'Scanners' https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YI3NoBeNwfk
Warning!!!!!! - very graphic, and has lots of gore even though it's an old movie [xenzag, Nov 17 2016]

[link]






       Blah blah blah blah   

       It's happening, get over it.
ytk, Nov 11 2016
  

       The worst part is that you're never sure if they've washed their tentacles properly.   

       Clinton lost because she's perfidious, untrustworthy and unreliable, and voters recognized that.   

       "Ding Dong! The Witch is dead. Which old Witch? The Wicked Witch! Ding Dong! The Wicked Witch is dead .....
8th of 7, Nov 11 2016
  

       "Can you imagine, he's threatening not to accept the results of the election", said the #NotMyPresident crowd.   

       Almost as ironic as Hillary not making the speech the same night.
theircompetitor, Nov 11 2016
  

       Can we all at least celebrate together the death (hopefully) of the American political dynasty? Don't forget who else got their ass handed to them in this election. Bush #3. HE was the odds on favorite of the political class to win the Republican nomination, a Bush vs a Clinton, and he finished dead last in the polls. THAT'S the real thing Americans were rebelling against I think.   

       And in what may be a first, I'm completely agreeing with Voice for that link about why Trump won. The guy's got it spot on.   

       Now hopefully next election we can have a Libertarian candidate who's not a complete idiot. Not holding my breath though.
doctorremulac3, Nov 11 2016
  

       Thiel getting involved with Trump's administration is the most hopeful sign (for me at least) since the Ginrgrich & Clinton achieved a balanced budget in the 90s. Let's see how it goes.
theircompetitor, Nov 11 2016
  

       // a Libertarian candidate who's not a complete idiot. //   

       That's an oxymoron.   

         

       // Not holding my breath though. //   

       No ? Oh, go on. We dare you ...
8th of 7, Nov 11 2016
  

       Quiet you. (7)   

       Theil's the real deal and could be a boon to the process. Started a real company that makes real money by providing a real service. Paypal's not one of these companies that's a glorified advertising agency over charging for their clicks and obnoxious banner ads that nobody pays attention to and jacking their stock evaluations way beyond reality. We'll see. This could be horrible, great or something in the middle.
doctorremulac3, Nov 11 2016
  

       Shan't.
8th of 7, Nov 11 2016
  

       I thought the whole point of the American political system was to ensure that the president can't actually _do_ anything, thereby leaving you free to elect a leader based solely on charisma? Which raises a few questions.
MaxwellBuchanan, Nov 11 2016
  

       Such as "How do snowplough drivers get to work ?"
8th of 7, Nov 11 2016
  

       Or "Do crosses repel Jewish vampires?"
doctorremulac3, Nov 11 2016
  

       If its a Brexit like thing then we need to see his stupid orange face for a while to remind the establishment of some uncomfortable truths.   

       Not too long because he's enabling a lot newly entitled fascists to commit a lot of hate crimes. Ideally, he'd back-track on many things he said in the short term.   

       This will now keep happening until there is a global movement against the global economy. In these times of surplus there really is no reason for people be treated like tradeable and disposable garbage. And war is just an extreme version of imperialism or corporate business.
bigsleep, Nov 11 2016
  

       //In these times of surplus [..,]//   

       Well, that was the reasoning of Galbraith and Riesman in the 40s and 50s - but is it compatible with the view that the processes producing that surplus are also destroying the ecosystem?   

       I mean, if we went sustainable, would there still be this great big surplus to take for granted and share around? That seems unlikely to me, but I'm open to suggestions.
pertinax, Nov 12 2016
  

       //I thought the whole point of the American political system was to ensure that the president can't actually _do_ anything, thereby leaving you free to elect a leader based solely on charisma?//   

       Yes, it's pretty much modeled on the British system, except we don't put them on our money until after they're dead.
ytk, Nov 12 2016
  

       So, [Ian Tindale], what do you think of Camus' embrace of absurdity? Do you think that can be technologically supported? That's not a rhetorical question; it might make quite an interesting challenge.
pertinax, Nov 12 2016
  

       You're a cheerful bugger, arern't you, [IT] ?   

       // Camus' embrace of absurdity? //   

       Yes, it's not an overly stroing thesis, with a few flaws, but on the whole he's more of a realist than Nietzsche, Popper or Wittgenstein.
8th of 7, Nov 12 2016
  

       //he's enabling a lot newly entitled fascists to commit a lot of hate crimes.//   

       Well, maybe, but currently all the hate crimes are coming from the anti-Trump people, including little girls and old ladies being assaulted. I can put the video links up but I'd rather not. It's distressing. In one incident a truck was burned because it had Trump bumper stickers. An award winning Hollywood actor said "pick up a baseball bat and take out every f--king republican and independent I see."   

       I think when you're doing something that makes bullies get violent, you should do it more just on principal.   

       As far as whether he's going to create paradise on Earth or reduce the planet to ashes, it'll probably be something in between. Worst case the already teetering economy crashes on his watch and those trillions of dollars in debt become an issue. Best case he puts a team together that can do some good stuff. Putting teams together and evaluating their efficacy on his TV show is what he did for many years. Can it apply to the presidency? Maybe not, but then again maybe it can. Not even going to speculate.   

       By the way, I was the first person I know that figured out that he never wanted to be president, he just wanted to get his ideas out there and get some air time. He recently admitted that he didn't think he'd win the nomination. It's a very weird situation. We have an actual accidental president. The South Park show writers agree with me on this one and they're seldom wrong.   

       How will it turn out? Great reality TV folks. Stay tuned.
doctorremulac3, Nov 12 2016
  

       // Great reality TV //   

       That begs the question as to whether it's still a genuine political process, or has evolved into a form of mass-media entertainment.   

       Association football, at a professional level, is no longer a sport but a segment of the entertainment industry. TV stars, move actors, singers and musicians are more generously rewarded and receive greater public adulation than almost any other group.   

       This being the case, it seems logical that politicians will have to join the bandwagon, or die a death of a billion channel-changes.
8th of 7, Nov 12 2016
  

       //it's still a genuine political process, or has evolved into a form of mass-media entertainment//   

       The evolution towards this started back in the 60s with the first televised presidential debate. Kennedy was good looking and smooth while Nixon was ugly and awkward. This cast the die.   

       I don't care of you've got the correct solution to every problem on Earth, you don't know how to generate clicks on the internet, you're not getting elected. I was almost going to say "generate TV viewers". Showing my age there.   

       That being said, see link for what we can look forward to in the future at this rate.
doctorremulac3, Nov 12 2016
  

       The greatest leader is the one who achieves greatest consensus, not the one who got the most votes.   

       see link
ixnaum, Nov 12 2016
  

       I'm bunning your idea because I like looking into alternatives to just kicking each other in the balls, which is at the core of our current political problem solving process.
doctorremulac3, Nov 12 2016
  

       // just kicking each other in the balls //   

       But that's the best bit, that's what gets your species the huge ratings on the Galactic Comedy Channel ...
8th of 7, Nov 12 2016
  

       (See link.)
doctorremulac3, Nov 12 2016
  

       //I mean, if we went sustainable, would there still be this great big surplus to take for granted and share around? That seems unlikely to me, but I'm open to suggestions.//   

       I don't mind being a second class citizen, I'm not an alpha anymore, maybe not a beta, just a gamma. So if I get a 2 year old car or 2 year old phone at a knock-down price that will do me fine. Of course I'd like food and a house and some beer.   

       Its not a big ask (the global economy is just cars and phones btw). Fashion aside, just the house, food and beer would suffice. Maybe some new gadget would keep the Alphas into spending, but again, just the food, house and beer for me.   

       After a while, maybe we all want the food, house, beer and some planet management when iVersion 1022 is sounding a bit silly.
bigsleep, Nov 13 2016
  

       "stroing"?   

       The borg's been at the wine gums again.   

       On a parallel situation I noted the CBC new flash of "Reputed ringleader in $18.7M maple syrup heist found guilty". Bit of a sticky situation, what?   

       With enough processing power surely the whole US administration could be superimposed by Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado, with Trump as Ko-Ko?
not_morrison_rm, Nov 13 2016
  

       "Tall guy needed ... recasting Star Wars, want someone to play Darth Vader to Donald's Emperor Palpatine ..."
8th of 7, Nov 13 2016
  

       [voice] that video is bang on.
the porpoise, Nov 13 2016
  

       This could be a serious money maker.   

       //Well, maybe, but currently all the hate crimes are coming from the anti-Trump people//   

       Sorry but that's complete bollocks.
RayfordSteele, Nov 13 2016
  

       That's true, presumably unarmed black people are still being shot by cops, and they're probably mostly pro-Trump ...
8th of 7, Nov 13 2016
  

       //Sorry but that's complete bollocks.//   

       See links.   

       Don't you ever get tired of being wrong all the time Ray?
doctorremulac3, Nov 13 2016
  

       Of course he doesn't, that's why he votes Democrat ...
8th of 7, Nov 13 2016
  

       The funny thing is, here in the UK I was woken at about 6am on the night after your election by this sort of roaring, whoomping noise. Turns out it was the much-delayed sound of 319 million Americans simultaneously smacking their foreheads. And if you've been hearing a strange sort of background hum for the last few days, it's the sound of 743 million Europeans pissing themselves with laughter.   

       Seriously, America, what were you thinking?
MaxwellBuchanan, Nov 13 2016
  

       Hmm, waiting for the bit like in the The Triangle 2005 miniseries where the reality has flipped and the brown shirts' reaction to discovering an Australian...linky.
not_morrison_rm, Nov 13 2016
  

       //pissing themselves with laughter.//

I hear the hum... the pissing... but I can't quite make out the laughter.
LimpNotes, Nov 13 2016
  

       // America, what were you thinking?//   

       American here. I didn't vote for either, but I never ever would have voted for Hillary due to her massive record of incompetence, lying, corruption, cronyism, and nepotism. She could have promised to do everything I personally would have done and I would not have voted for her, because I wouldn't have believed a word of it. "Trump is X" is not an acceptable answer to these concerns.   

       Also most of your beliefs about Trump are informed by an extravagantly biased press that twisted anything Trump said to the worst possible out-of-context meaning. I've never seen such a unified attempt by so many parts of the press to smear a man, and frankly I'm proud so many Americans saw through it.   

       The press was once called the fourth estate. Then people stopped buying newspapers and stopped paying for subscriptions. This intensified the trend toward consolidation, and now the great majority of the American press is owned by the same three media conglomerates. The illusion of competition and honest reporting is wearing very thin as the same talking points are spouted in precisely the same phrases by dozens of "independent" outlets.
Voice, Nov 14 2016
  

       Bravo. What [Voice] said.
8th of 7, Nov 14 2016
  

       Wait and see is the best policy...who knows how this is going to pan out?   

       Anyway, the whole point of this idea is I can see Willy Wonka deporting Oompa-Loompas, or something like that, not the actual reality.
not_morrison_rm, Nov 14 2016
  

       Bravo. What [8th] said about [Voice].   

       And to the person who kidnapped Voice, hijacked his Halfbakery account and keeps putting up posts that I agree with, please set him free. I miss arguing with him.
doctorremulac3, Nov 14 2016
  

       Don't worry [Dr], there's plenty we still disagree on, and myself being possessed of the diplomatic acumen of an angry badger I'm certain there are many lively arguments to come.
Voice, Nov 14 2016
  

       Good. Looking forward to future spirited debates. Consensus makes for short, boring conversations.   

       Ok, nothing to see here. I'll go see what's the latest at that global warming thread. See if I can get into trouble over there.
doctorremulac3, Nov 14 2016
  

       You can. Trust us on that.   

       // Consensus makes for short, boring conversations. //   

       ... although disputes where at least one of the protagonists is armed may well be even shorter.
8th of 7, Nov 14 2016
  

       "This is the BBC ... here is the news".   

       many years later   

       "This is the BBC ... let's read tweets".   

       I do miss the times of authoritarian news, because it was mostly informed by some facts rather than sentiment. I'm amazed that the occasional young geek appears on tv and actually knows what they are talking about.   

       Video killed the radio star, and now apparently the last vestige of rational thought.
bigsleep, Nov 14 2016
  

       Our work here is done.
8th of 7, Nov 14 2016
  

       No, doc. I do get tired of arguing with you, though. Links.
RayfordSteele, Nov 14 2016
  

       "Doctor Doctor, I think I'm a pair of curtains"   

       "That must be affecting your cholesterol levels, take these statins and call me in the morning."
bigsleep, Nov 14 2016
  

       //No, doc. I do get tired of arguing with you, though. Links.//   

       Then why is it always you who initiates contact with me?   

       But to respond, I put up a half dozen videos after about 5 minutes of research and after about 24 hours you come back with only a couple of videos and a handful of written allegations. How come only the anti Trump attacks get recorded on video?   

       If it's a "Which side has the most crazy violent people physically attacking other people?" question, then I guess the "winner" is whoever posts the most videos. I'll wait till you catch up before spending another 5 minutes on research.   

       And by the way, MOST of the hate crimes you listed were verbal assaults. I'm only showing violent physical assaults actually recorded on video to save a little time.
doctorremulac3, Nov 14 2016
  

       Because I hate outright falsehood even more. However, I do have other things to do. You know, like, work. Kids. Your assertion was that "all" of the violence was thus far committed by one side.
RayfordSteele, Nov 14 2016
  

       Ok, all the violence IS coming from your guys. It's rampant. I'll go ahead and parse my terms. When I say "all" I'm alleging a hundred to one ratio. That's close enough to all for me. I also neglected to note that calling names, the vast majority hate crimes you listed, is considered by some to be a crime.   

       Nice out saying you're too busy to come up with the video proof though. I invested about 5 minutes then went about tending to all the things you listed. But then again, my research is a lot easier. Lots more material.   

       They're violent thugs Ray. They're beating up old people and children in the street and you're defending them. I wouldn't defend the morons inciting violence on the other side, you shouldn't trivialize the violence on your side. I'm sure you're an honorable guy Ray, you're above that.
doctorremulac3, Nov 14 2016
  

       America's choice was between rimming a bonobo or being rimmed by a bonobo. America chose the latter.
calum, Nov 14 2016
  

       Well, if all we get out of it is the term "rimming the bonobo" it won't be a total loss.
doctorremulac3, Nov 14 2016
  

       Doc, cameras tend to follow riots around. Easy pickings for you. Just because things aren't all over the net doesn't mean that they didn't happen. I live in an area where there is a lot of racial tension, and it has gotten much worse over the past several months.   

       And I really don't care if you spend 5 minutes or 5 days justifying your opinion. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. A 2 minute search is all it is worth to me.
RayfordSteele, Nov 14 2016
  

       [Rayford], [Dr], I don't have a dog in this fight, but as an amateur historian, acquainted with one of two real historians, I think no-one actually knows at this stage which of you is right.   

       At some point in the future, someone will make a proper count of incidents reported, and apply some more or less credible and systematic method to infer unreported incidents, such as is sometimes used with regular crime statistics.   

       Until then, it's all sampling bias, confirmation bias, etc. The truth of the matter, whatever it is, hasn't finished putting its boots on yet, as Mark Twain put it. When this is done, it may show that most of the fault is on one side, or it may not.   

       Meanwhile, until it does, we can agree that there are a whole lot of angry people out there, and some of them are doing bad things, and *all* of them probably think that they're the victims, or in some cases, that they're heroic defenders or vindicators of the victims - because, you know, people are like that. So, could we try not to add heat to this reaction?
pertinax, Nov 15 2016
  

       //cameras tend to follow riots around.//   

       Not a single video I posted was shot at a riot.   

       Old woman was peacefully guarding Trump's star in Hollywood, little girl was minding her own business in the school yard, old man was stopped at an intersection, three of the people were trying to leave a Trump event.   

       Anybody who attacks an innocent person in the name of Hillary, Trump or anything is an asshole that needs to be thrown in jail. I'll say it if you won't.
doctorremulac3, Nov 15 2016
  

       Pertinax, agreed.
RayfordSteele, Nov 15 2016
  

       // could we try not to add heat to this reaction? //   

       That would be superfluous, as it appears to be sufficiently exothermic to be entirely self-sustaining.   

       Out of interest, does anyone one know what the chain terminating step is, or do you just wait for all the reactants to be consumed ?
8th of 7, Nov 15 2016
  

       //does anyone one know what the chain terminating step is//   

       A unified, publicized outcry by ALL leaders from both parties, especially the ultra left wingers and Donald Trump demanding the violence cease immediately. So pretty much it's not going to happen.
Voice, Nov 15 2016
  

       See link for Trump imploring his followers to not use violence.   

       But even more interesting, fast forward to :45 where they refer to acts of violence on both sides showing Trump supporters carrying a sign, presumably saying something offensive, and a Trump detractor viciously beating a defenseless little girl.   

       Same thing in their eyes.
doctorremulac3, Nov 15 2016
  

       by "unified" I mean they all have to get up on a stage together, at the same time for a press conference so Hillary's supporters see her there and know that as far as this goes she is absolutely not defending their actions.
Voice, Nov 15 2016
  

       Taking a brief sojourn back to the idea, I'm only buying into it if I am able to replace Trump with Howard the Duck (and possibly vice versa).
st3f, Nov 15 2016
  

       //by "unified" I mean they all have to get up on a stage together, at the same time for a press conference so Hillary's supporters see her there and know that as far as this goes she is absolutely not defending their actions.//   

       No, I got you and I absolutely agree. They should both get out on stage and make a statement. Not split screen, not messages running concurrently, both of them standing in physical proximity to each other in real time and giving this message. And then, as you say, holding an extended press conference.   

       I absolutely agree that this MUST be done.
doctorremulac3, Nov 15 2016
  

       Strangely, in [doc]'s linked video, Trump appears to be wearing lipstick and cheap fake tan.
MaxwellBuchanan, Nov 15 2016
  

       I watched the whole Donald Trump 60 Minutes interview and not ONE question about the orange face.   

       Told you journalism is dead.
doctorremulac3, Nov 15 2016
  

       I heard he once fell into a vat of chemicals during a fight with Batman.   

       Frankly the way he conducted his campaign brought out the worst in everyone. Doesn't seem to be a leadership quality to me.   

       Incendiary rhetoric hate speech Incendiary rhetoric hate speech Incendiary rhetoric hate speech Incendiary rhetoric please don't use violence Incendiary rhetoric Incendiary rhetoric Incendiary rhetoric...   

       Seems a little bit off, no?
RayfordSteele, Nov 15 2016
  

       //Seems a little bit off, no?//   

       The problem is that we're getting too bogged down in details on this issue. Step back a little, and look at the situation - you elected Donald Trump president of the United States, for fucksake!
MaxwellBuchanan, Nov 15 2016
  

       which proves either that time travel hasn't been invented or the multiple timeline (multiverse) theory, I suppose?
theircompetitor, Nov 15 2016
  

       // Incendiary rhetoric hate speech Incendiary rhetoric hate speech Incendiary rhetoric hate speech Incendiary rhetoric please don't use violence Incendiary rhetoric Incendiary rhetoric Incendiary rhetoric...//   

       No. The great majority of that "hate speech" is quotes either made up from whole cloth or taken far out of context. The more you belittle and ignore Trump supporters the further widen the rift that has been created between the American right and left. That rift is becoming dangerous. It's easy and convenient to dismiss The Other Camp with insults. I challenge you to rise above that animalistic part of your emotions.   

       I challenge you to look at the reasons Trump supporters liked him that don't involve any form of hatred. Because millions upon millions of Americans voted for Obama and then switched to voting for Trump. Because Americans are not hateful. Not even the ones who support Trump. Because you've been living in an echo chamber.   

       And if it seems like I'm only berating one side of the political spectrum here it's because while there is hatred and willful ignorance on both sides I feel it is your side with the most to offer the world. rise. Rise! above your differences.
Voice, Nov 16 2016
  

       Eisenhower or Kennedy I think is the last president we all agreed on.   

       Eisenhower's slogan was the brilliant: "I like Ike". He was one of the leaders who won WW2, he stood up the the Soviet Union at the beginning of the cold war and he built the international highway system. But just when you thought he was all about war and kicking ass all day every day he left office with a speech warning "Beware the military industrial complex."   

       This was a great man. His average popularity raging was 65% only to be beaten by the rock star of presidents, JFK at 70%. But keep in mind, Ike was in office 8 years, Kennedy only 2 so it was easy to keep a good image. He did manage to lose Cuba and almost start WW3.   

       Least popular was Jimmy Carter at 28%. For christ sakes, if you're the president of the United States start calling yourself James for starters. What are you, 5 years old?
doctorremulac3, Nov 16 2016
  

       It does come across like "Ahead in the Polls" in Futurama...
not_morrison_rm, Nov 16 2016
  

       Awesome episode of one of my favorite shows.
doctorremulac3, Nov 16 2016
  

       We have a system that with the exception of two major hiccups (The Civil War and World War II) has managed to rotate power pretty consistently.   

       For all the hand-wringing of our liberal friends, or even the genuine concerns conservatives like me have over Trump, we've already had both bulls in the china shop (Jackson), populists (Jackson, Teddy Roosevelt) and near dictators (FDR). The republic will go on.   

       But for those that are genuinely concerned that it might not, it might be instructive to think through the difference between the children of their neighbors, who are volunteering for the armed forces, and their own children, who are seeking therapy dog sessions at colleges over the results of the election. If there's ever been a good enough reason to reinstate the draft, this is it.
theircompetitor, Nov 16 2016
  

       I do not live in any echo chamber. I get my news from the BBC, the AP, NPR, the local conservative paper, and selected sections of Fox that I can put up with. I live in the Midwest and am surrounded by Trump voters. If you want an echo chamber, let me just list the first 6 Trump supporters I can think of in my immediate life.   

       My father: thinks that Bill and Hillary have had their political enemies murdered over the past 30 years and are just so good as to cover their tracks. Listens to conspiracy-theorist radio in the tractor. Shares every fake news meme he can find amongst his facebook friends who echo them back to him.   

       My wife's cousin: a police officer known throughout the family for promoting racist and anti-LGBT views. Gets off on pushing people's buttons. Otherwise leans libertarian. Doesn't understand why he keeps getting passed over for promotion.   

       My stepbrother: pastor of a small church who despises Trump but would vote for the devil himself if he promised to stop abortion and put in conservative SC judges.   

       My wife's friend: also religious conservative with the same reasons.   

       My cousin: useless job-drifting mushroom / pot addict who believes god-knows whatever.   

       My father-in-law: retired engineer, religious and fiscal conservative who likes that Trump is not taking a salary but only gets his news from conservative talk radio and Sean Hannity exclusively.   

       I fail to find any lessons of value from these people, especially nothing about being broad-minded; maybe the pot-smoker is but his is not the best example of a successful life.   

       In what context does 'blood coming out of her whatever' not sound incendiary?   

       In what context does “I think that putting a wife to work is a very dangerous thing.” not sound like a chauvinist pig?   

       Find a context that make any of the following acceptable:   

       "An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that Barack Obama's birth certificate is a fraud."   

       “When mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists.”   

       “Laziness is a trait in blacks.”   

       “Who’s doing the raping? Somebody’s doing the raping?”   

       “According to Bill O’Reilly, 80% of all the shootings in new york city are blacks — if you add hispanics, that figure goes to 98%, 1% white.”   

       "Our great African American President hasn't exactly had a positive impact on the thugs who are so happily and openly destroying Baltimore!" Seriously? This is like blaming Johnson for all of the stuff the KKK did during his presidency.   

       These are just the tip of the iceberg.
RayfordSteele, Nov 16 2016
  

       [tc], My concern is that the current nation, economy, and governmental environment (ie. international policy, environmental impact, etc) is a much more complex place than in the past. The stakes are higher and we have much more to lose.
RayfordSteele, Nov 16 2016
  

       Ray, let's take that as a perfectly accurate cross-section.   

       Would you accept that the current election is, at least in part, a reaction to Obama's election, which could not have been -- in any universe -- achieved without the level of African American turnout that was achieved? You feel confident said audience is significantly better informed?
theircompetitor, Nov 16 2016
  

       I recently noticed multiple liberal commentators lamenting the state of the white electorate, talking about how our current system was designed when we had poll-taxes. Liberals, reaching for the nostalgia of non- universal suffrage!   

       We are paying the price of using identity politics, effectively modern marketing segmentation techniques in politics -- but it was inevitable we'll go there.   

       I agree Ray, the Big Lie is dangerous now -- as it was dangerous when radio was used to spread it, and that was new too.   

       We're clearly in a very interesting time (as in the Chinese curse), and the similarities both both WWI and WWII abound, so of course one has to worry.   

       But the essence of the safety valve constitutional democracy supposedly provides is that even if we tend to drive in one direction, we zig-zag there and take our time. President Obama, who often talks about that, would have done well to actually take that into account in 2008, and things might have turned out differently.
theircompetitor, Nov 16 2016
  

       [tc], the Democratic party is not nearly as monolithic as the Republicans and so an accurate cross-section is hard to model. Although perhaps not as personally informed, your selected group does happen to caucus with groups that tend to be as a result.   

       You have the remnants of the old union guys, the science wing, poor inner city types, AA's, Latinos and other immigrant populations, most of the tech sector and science wing, the Bernie socialist-wannabes, the left libertarians, true ideological Marxists, the east coast independents, liberals, and moderates, rejected Eisenhower Republicans, college professors, etc.   

       I doubt it was nostalgia that drove the conversation.   

       I see Obama as having to forcibly hold the steering wheel in line to keep a car with a bad alignment job and a flat tire from careening off the embankment and down a cliff. Not a lot of options in that analogy for dodging potholes.
RayfordSteele, Nov 16 2016
  

       I'll pose something to the crowd:   

       Everything that's happened this year and every year since the Web's inception, from spam to trolls to fake news to collapse of music industry, is a direct result of "free internet".   

       If you've only continued to have to pay by bit used, as you do for electricity or water, then adoption of the web would have inevitably been slower, but we would have avoided much of the mess we are in.
theircompetitor, Nov 16 2016
  

       Oh yes, an internet controlled by the wealthy. That would certainly have left us better off.
Voice, Nov 16 2016
  

       // In what context does “I think that putting a wife to work is a very dangerous thing.” not sound like a chauvinist pig? //   

       In the context of the full statement, which was "If you're in business for yourself, I really think it's a bad idea to put your wife working for you."   

       He clearly was saying not that women shouldn't work, but that he didn't think a marriage where the wife is employed by her husband is not likely to work. Just the fact that you never read this full context proves that yes you are in an echo chamber.   

       // "An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that Barack Obama's birth certificate is a fraud." //   

       acceptable if you don't assume he's objecting due to race (but of course your news sources are all about that assumption) but because he cares about the constitutionality of Obama being elected and wasn't all that informed as to the facts of the matter.   

       //When mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists.// (and some are decent people)   

       Not Mexicans, the people that arrive from Mexico. Those who are doing well in Mexico are less likely to migrate, and the statistical fact is illegal immigrants are more likely to be violent criminals than natives. I'm sorry if this fact triggers you.   

       //Laziness is a trait in blacks.//   

       Not actually something Trump said.   

       Echo. Chamber.   

       More to the point what I said is that Trump supporters are not, as a group, hateful. Trump has said some questionable (although much, much less questionable than his detractors claim) things but this simpering, whining complaining about anything that isn't sufficiently politically correct is a reason many Trump supporters support Trump. Not because they hate black people but because they're tired of being falsely accused of racism. Not because they hate women, but because they're tired of hearing their disgust with Hillary is sexism. They're sick of identity politics. They're sick of walking on eggshells. They're sick of having to avoid certain topics because someone might be offended.   

       That covers many. But most people support Trump because he opposes the trade treaties they perceive as fucking them over, and they're sick of an arrogant, wealthy politically elite telling them the pale color of their skin makes them lesser human beings. Call someone a monster enough times and they'll start filing their teeth.
Voice, Nov 16 2016
  

       See links.
RayfordSteele, Nov 16 2016
  

       I agree -- walking on eggshells is almost the # one reason.
theircompetitor, Nov 16 2016
  

       //Laziness is a trait in blacks.//   

       We agree with this unreservedly.   

       We also wish to point out that it is a trait in every shape, size and colour of human, without exception.   

       "Ginger cats spread fleas, and crap in flowerbeds"   

       This is true. But it is also true for all other colours of cat.   

         

       Question: will the deportation of "millions of illegal immigrants" require additional primary legislation, or can it be done using existing statute law ?   

       We wonder if "I'm going to deport millions of illegal immigrants, by ensuring additional funding for the INS and that the existing laws are efficiently and thoroughly enforced" is a contentious statement.
8th of 7, Nov 16 2016
  

       Honestly, I was willing to support him until I found out yesterday he broke with protocol and went to dinner in a midtown restaurant without telling the press first. Tyranny is at hand.   

       He also hasn't managed to trial balloon a name without an array of angry alt-left pit bulls tearing it down.   

       Not that this wouldn't have happened the other way.   

       Both machines are just too well oiled.   

       Prediction for you Ray. He'll do better than expected -- not because of reversion to the mean (pun intended) but because he basically will push through instead of pull back when attacked. It's the one quality he has that works for him in the insane atmosphere that exists
theircompetitor, Nov 16 2016
  

       One thing he's got going for him, the left has set the bar SOOOO low for a Trump presidency, and made him out to be so horrible, he'd have to try, actually try to be as bad as they say he's going to be.   

       Probably time to just make a mental list of predictions of horrible stuff that's supposed to happen under a Trump presidency so we can compare it in 4 years.
doctorremulac3, Nov 16 2016
  

       That sounds uncomfortably like the pitch to the backers for "Gremlins 3: Now They're In The White House".
8th of 7, Nov 16 2016
  

       [8th] The problem here is he implied that he would immediately begin ejecting every illegal alien that can be found regardless of what they're doing. Once elected he changed that to "focus on the criminals". It was actually quite clever: When he first said "criminals" the anti-immigrant crowd heard "all illegal aliens (because naturally illegally immigrating is a crime) allowing him to back-peddle now without quite reversing himself.   

       As for his term I'm predicting it won't go nearly as bad as the democrats predict, nor nearly as well as the alt-right predicts. I don't think he'll be a Bush Jr. (god forbid) or a Reagan.
Voice, Nov 16 2016
  

       // Once elected he changed that to "focus on the criminals". //   

       Well, he has to start somewhere, shirley ?   

       Concentrating first on those who have committed crimes above and beyond illegal immigration makes perfect sense.   

       Someone who is an illegal immigrant but otherwise a peaceful and harmless member of society is prima facie less of a problem than one who has engaged in additional criminal activity (and indeed may do more of the same). "Get rid of the worst ones first" is entirely rational.   

       In the unlikely event of some of the deportees receiving something approximating to "due process"*, limited resources will slow down processing - unless of course the job is simply turned over to hastily deputized members of the National Rifle Association ...   

       * In Texas, this is typically means asking "Have you any last words before we lynch you ?"
8th of 7, Nov 16 2016
  

       Here are a few of my primary reasons, since I voted for Trump...

Eggshells. Yes. Trump is the only candidate, and one of few people in the country suited to a position of authority, capable of absorbing the hyperbolized projections and public shaming attempts that are the arsenal of the left.

He disrupts the Oliogarchy.

He fractures the pedestal that people have been putting our politicians on. The president is no longer an elite king but a man with flaws and accomplishments. A real human instead of a idealized fabrication.

He is addressing the real issues of crime, drugs, and human trafficking that are intrinsically linked to illegal immigration, rather than the less-real and largely hyperbolized issue of racial discrimination.

His arguments address real issues and there is reasoning behind them, and while I do not necessarily agree with that rationale in all instances, it shows a person who is willing to operate under reason rather than sentiment. A reasonable person is more cooperative than a person who is controlled by sentiment.

Jobs and a focus on the working class. The promise is there. Naturally, so is the hope.

Motivation. Trump is already successful. Why would he burden himself with the job of President? Ego, certainly. But I think disgust offers a more complete description of his motivations. Disgust is the only true catalyst for lasting positive change.

I've mentioned transparency before. Trump is authentic, he operates rationally, and he addresses unpopular issues openly.
LimpNotes, Nov 16 2016
  

       // Oliogarchy //   

       We think you might mean Oligarchy. Oliogarchy is defied as "Rule by pneumatic air–oil hydraulic shock absorber ", which might actually not be that bad.
8th of 7, Nov 16 2016
  

       Oleogarchy, rule by an inedible oil substitute, sounds downright awful.   

       Thus far his choices for key positions are either incompetent unsuitable boobs or former 'oligarchs' themselves, so I don't expect to see as much change there.   

       I actually think he's going to let Pence and Ryan steer most of the showboat. And that's exactly what I don't want. If he even lasts that long. I suspect he'll be impeached for being an imbecile before he's through.   

       If I had said or done any of the things that DT has during his campaign, I would be fired in a New York minute. I don't really understand why he gets a pass.
RayfordSteele, Nov 16 2016
  

       He doesn't get a pass. He just has the resources to absorb the "firing"... unlike you. Lots of people are afraid to voice their opinions for fear of firing. See eggshell argument.
LimpNotes, Nov 16 2016
  

       I read that as 'because he has money, he gets to act like an ass.'
RayfordSteele, Nov 16 2016
  

       he gets a pass because the press is Anna Wintour, who gets to drive teenage girls to anorexia and suicide, doesn't get to say Trump is a misogynist because he told a beauty queen to lose weight.   

       he gets a pass because we all know that Bill Clinton has said (and did) at least the equivalent of everything Trump is accused of -- hell, wouldn't shock me if they'd done it together -- and the press never found it to be a disqualifying problem   

       he gets a pass because we notice that the press had to be dragged, kicking and screaming to cover the Clinton Foundation ethics scandal, but spared no time -- literally -- to worry about the fact that Ivanka marketed a bracelet she wore. OMG, the risk to the country!   

       It's just a desire to show the finger, careless, to be sure, maybe even reckless, but exhilarating.
theircompetitor, Nov 16 2016
  

       Bringing down a notch the high-strung nervousness of the media desperately competing for the next expose' with ever more unhinged exclamation points is a welcome change, but I'm not sure that this was the best way to do so.
RayfordSteele, Nov 16 2016
  

       To be sure. On the other hand, look at all the fun we have witnessing vicious, cutthroat jockeying for power as the new administration comes in. As far I'm aware, this has never happened previously.
theircompetitor, Nov 16 2016
  

       Err, seems to be quite a lot double-think in the press (all over) this is from one of the high-ups in Ford.   

       "... with U.S. gasoline prices so low, "it's very difficult for us to be able to make money on a vehicle produced in the U.S." in the small car segment.".   

       There is probably a rational explanation, no?
not_morrison_rm, Nov 16 2016
  

       Because small cars are less desirable in cheap gas markets.
RayfordSteele, Nov 16 2016
  

       //the high-strung nervousness of the media desperately competing for the next expose' with ever more unhinged exclamation points//   

       Here's what's going to result from the "revolution" the media and losing electorate is engaging in after Trump's victory. Let's look at recent history.   

       Remember back when rich people used to own everything and Wall Street power brokers ran amok buying influence in government? The powerful got more powerful and the rich got richer, then there was a revolution. Remember "Occupy Wall Street"?   

       These brave and brilliant strategists combined the two most powerful tools of warfare: "walk around" and "make a lot of noise" to crumble the edifices of capitalism resulting in the socialist utopia we have today. Remember when that happened?   

       Me neither.   

       Same thing's gonna happen here. Lots of noise, a few innocent people will get beat up then everybody will get bored and go home.   

       Oh yea, and a few Democrats in congress will try to overturn the electoral college. This will seek to take away the fly over states' say in who rules over them. All they'll need is a constitutional amendment ratified by those same flyover states granting California and New York the power to completely control the rest of the country from now on. Another well thought out plan brought to you by the Democrats.
doctorremulac3, Nov 17 2016
  

       In the words of the master "I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people," he said. "You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides ."   

       He waved his thin hand toward the city and walked over to the window.   

       "A great rolling sea of evil," he said, almost proprietorially. "Shallower in some places, of course, and deeper, oh so much deeper in others. But people like you put together little rafts of rules and vaguely good intentions and say, this is the opposite, this will triumph in the end. Amazing!"   

       "Down there" he said, "are people who will follow any dragon, worship any god, ignore any inequity. All out of a kind of humdrum everyday badness. Not the really high creative loathsomeness of the great sinners, but a sort of mass-produced darkness of the soul. Sin, you might say, without a trace of originality. They accept evil not because they say yes but because they don't say no . I'm sorry if this offends you" he added.
not_morrison_rm, Nov 17 2016
  

       Yeah the OccupyX movement was quite weird, pointless, and creepy. Their habit of repeating random things said by no particular leader reminded me of the Life of Brian.   

       If the flyover states would just join the Democrats then they'd have a say in that plan.   

       Maybe one of these years poor white evangelicals won't vote against their own interest. It just goes to show that self-flagellation is popular among the religious of all faiths.   

       As it stands now, the inmates have taken charge.
RayfordSteele, Nov 17 2016
  

       I'm looking forward to the slow mo of his head exploding as a la Cronenberg's Film 'Scanners'.
xenzag, Nov 17 2016
  

       After reading every word, I found that [Voice]'s link pretty much summed it up nicely.   

       //I'm looking forward to the slow mo of his head exploding as a la Cronenberg's Film 'Scanners'.//   

       Are you saying you're actually looking forward to somebody murdering him by blowing his head off with a high powered rifle?
doctorremulac3, Nov 17 2016
  

       That's not what happened in Scanners.
xenzag, Nov 17 2016
  

       Well, not sure what that means but I hope you're not indulging in brutal, sadistic murder fantasies. About anybody.
doctorremulac3, Nov 17 2016
  

       If you're not sure what it means, then educate yourself first to enable an informed judgement to take place. The film is widely available, and it's quite funny to imagine Trump having a part in it as the exloding head. I'm sure someone with simple editing skills could do it easily. The whole posting here is based on this idea of supplanting one image with that of another, in case you hadn't noticed.... I'll post a youtube clip of the sequence and you can use your imagination to cast the exploding head in the Trump role. The brain matter would obviously become some base inert material like rough wood chippings in the case of Trump to add a degree of realism.
xenzag, Nov 17 2016
  

       Ok.
doctorremulac3, Nov 17 2016
  

       Hope you enjoy the clip! It's worth watching in slow mo, as it's really well done. I have a big blow up of a frame capture from it, I made in San Francisco many years ago by simply taking 35ml slides from a low res TV, with good timing on my side. It's an image that scares the hell out of unsuspecting visitors to my house.
xenzag, Nov 17 2016
  

       What [n_m_rm] quoted from Pterry.   

       // Another well thought out plan brought to you by the Democrats. //   

       ANOTHER one ? What was the first one, then ? "Free Silver" ? Tammany Hall ? We seek merely for information...
8th of 7, Nov 17 2016
  

       Verdammit, someone's beaten me to it, there's already two T-word filters for web browsers.
not_morrison_rm, Feb 04 2017
  
      
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