Half a croissant, on a plate, with a sign in front of it saying '50c'
h a l f b a k e r y
"This may be bollocks, but it's lovely bollocks."

idea: add, search, annotate, link, view, overview, recent, by name, random

meta: news, help, about, links, report a problem

account: browse anonymously, or get an account and write.

user:
pass:
register,


                                                                                                           

Premium, Premium Gas

Use nicer pumps for the high octane gasoline
  (+8)(+8)
(+8)
  [vote for,
against]

(I hope anyone on here speaking the Queen's English will forgive my use of "gas" for petroleum-derived "gasoline.") Some people believe that 93 octane gas will automatically improve the performance of their low-compression engine designed for 87. They like the marketing of the additional additives in "premium" fuel. In light of this marketing, proposed is a high-performance gas station pump for high octane gasoline. The 87 and 89 octane pumps would pump slowly (as they do now at many gas stations), but the 93 pumps would allow people to fill their tanks quickly and get back to their self-aggrandizing cell phone conversations.
kevinthenerd, May 25 2012

information about octane. PDF warning http://mn.gov/comme...ges/OctaneFacts.pdf
[Voice, May 25 2012]

A discussion about compression ratios http://forums.anand...thread.php?t=198458
[Voice, May 25 2012]

Back in the day http://www.edwardho...s/paintings/gas.jpg
[Phrontistery, May 25 2012]

Maximum Law Amendment Maximum_20Law_20Amendment
Too many laws, eh? [ytk, May 29 2012]

[link]






       Oddly enough, I find I get about 13% more distance from 95 octane than I do from 91 and about 28% more distance from the same volume of Premium 98.   

       On average, 98 is about 6% more expensive than 95 and about 13% more expensive than 91   

       I'm using about 120 litres per week (about 32 US gals) so it's a substantial difference in cost.
UnaBubba, May 25 2012
  

       I thought this was going to include prettier, more elegant pumps. Ones with a grand, gold exterior, or something like that, so people, (like me), don't confuse them and end up paying an arm and a leg for their gas.
blissmiss, May 25 2012
  

       I'd like to see all gas stations be re-designed to look like my link, the modern ones are so grungy.
Phrontistery, May 25 2012
  

       I think it should be made more clear that most engines are indeed designed to run on low-octane gas and reap no benefit from premium fuels. Too many people seem to believe the myth that [KtheN] mentions; were I a conspiracy theorist, which I rarely am (my paranoia runs in much tighter spirals), I would venture that such myths are actually propagated by Big Oil. I know people whose families are on food stamps that insist they're actually _saving_ money by running their rusted-out '97 F150 on 93- octane. It's ridiculous.
Alterother, May 25 2012
  

       My Mazda RX-8 requires 91 or higher. "Premium" gas is not entirely worthless. I just think it's funny how people think a higher octane rating must be "better."
kevinthenerd, May 26 2012
  

       Of course it's not worthless. The RX-8 is a high performance machine. My Dad's '76 911 runs on high- octane, as does my imaginary Triumph Speed Triple. But what you said:   

       // Some people believe that 93 octane gas will automatically improve the performance of their low- compression engine //   

       is true, especially in places like my locale, where there are a fair number of ignorant hicks who would pour rocket fuel into the tanks of their pickups if you told them it would improve the performance. All it does is needlessly suck money out of my community.
Alterother, May 26 2012
  

       Running a 125cc motorbike on 100LL AVGAS, having tweaked the timing and carburation and also raised the compression by means of a different plug produces a substantial improvement in performance, along with an increased vulnerability to carb icing.   

       High-octane fuels make a difference to most cars only of you tinker with the map in the engine management unit. Some high end models will automatically sense the change in ignition point and automatically remap the injection and ignition.
8th of 7, May 26 2012
  

       I like this. "Introducing New Emperor's Robe Brand Ultra Premium Gasoline. The Chavas Regal of gas."   

       Show a snooty looking, tuxedo wearing butler filling the gas tank from a crystal wine carafe with gas in it.
doctorremulac3, May 26 2012
  

       If you only used the premium gas in it once in a while, the increase in performance you noted may have had more to do with built-up carbon being burned off of the piston heads and other surfaces inside the cylinder, rather than as a direct result of the fuel combustion itself. Just a theory.   

       [8th], obviously, if you hop up an engine with custom parts and fiddle around with the performance settings, it's going to run better on premium fuel. That's what premium fuel is _for_.
Alterother, May 26 2012
  

       My car takes premium but all I can find up here in the middle of nowhere is 10% ethanol (which really does hurt gas mileage) 91 octane slush. I like the idea, as long as gas stations didn't decide to slow down all of the pumps and make you pay more for faster pumping.
DIYMatt, May 26 2012
  

       You poor bastard. You should never have moved away from the city.
Alterother, May 26 2012
  

       Yes, I quite like it.
blissmiss, May 26 2012
  

       //In states like Oregon, where a station attendant is required to pump your fuel//   

       Seriously?
UnaBubba, May 27 2012
  

       Probably a union thing.
AbsintheWithoutLeave, May 27 2012
  

       //jobs created by requiring mini service.//   

       Rarely have I heard a more preposterous proposition. Instead of that let's require every Walmart to hire an extra 20 greeters. And we can legislate a bellhop in every elevator. And no more than 10 customers to a waiter, why not?!!   

       If we're burdening companies with the support of bodies we need to be honest about it. Tax the companies and pay into welfare systems.
Voice, May 27 2012
  

       Is Oregon such a breeze-free state that fumes hang around for so long as to be dangerous?
I confess that the potty-humour fan in me thought perhaps that this idea was going to involve consumption of large quantities of Krug, caviar and asparagus
AbsintheWithoutLeave, May 27 2012
  

       Why leave a tip? How can the insertion of the fuel nozzle be done particularly well?
pocmloc, May 27 2012
  

       It can't, but it can be done quite badly. You haven't had much experience with union labor, have you?
Alterother, May 27 2012
  

       But that was my point, doing a job normally deserves normal payment, doing it badly deserves formal complaint, doing it unusually well deserves a tip. Also, anyone asking for a tip automatically does not deserve one. Really!
pocmloc, May 27 2012
  

       I agree whole-heartedly, [poc], but not everyone shares that mentality. There are many who feel that they deserve a special reward for merely doing their jobs to the required standard, and will intentionally lower the quality of their work if this special reward is not given. This sort of behavior usually either precedes or takes the place of a strike.
Alterother, May 28 2012
  

       Shit, I had no idea there were welfare states in the US. I've been there but I have to admit I never refuelled a vehicle in Oregon or New Jersey.   

       The US habit of tipping is downright annoying to foreigners to your country. It's almost as annoying as having to haggle over price with Arabs. I've always figured something has a price and the vendor sets it to meet the market or goes bust.   

       Legislating against people refuelling motor vehicles is a bit like legislating that the chef can prepare your meal the, after showing it to you, has to take it away and cut it into bite-sized pieces.
UnaBubba, May 28 2012
  

       And people pull their hair out wondering what's wrong with this country... Well, for starters, we have too many damn laws.   

       As for tipping, it's only compulsory for restaurant servers and exotic dancers. Anybody who tries to tell you different is looking for an undeserved handout. Sure, it's 'common practice' to tip bellboys, parking valets, hotel maids (whom I do tip on occasion), etc., but it's not calculated into their incomes. So keep that in mind, [UnaBubba], and your annoying tipping troubles are over. Alternatively, you could simply not tip anyone, and they'll just correctly assume that you're a godawful prick.
Alterother, May 28 2012
  

       Okay. I'll widen it to 'food service'. My point is that there are many people out there jimmying for tips who don't have the right to claim gratuities on their income tax forms, and that those people do not get tips from me (except for the occasional hotel maid). Thank you for doing your job, enjoy your paycheck.
Alterother, May 28 2012
  

       Since the problem seems to be with the way the laws are written rather than the recipient of the tip, I would think it more productive to vent my annoyance and desire for change more directly at the responsible legislative body rather than punish the server.
RayfordSteele, May 28 2012
  

       // I would think it more productive to vent my annoyance and desire for change more directly at the responsible legislative body rather than punish the server.//
Alas, yet another shortcoming of a federation.
AbsintheWithoutLeave, May 28 2012
  

       Yes, but on the plus side, nobody has stuck a spear in me lately. I haven't been subjugated or persecuted, the place where I live hasn't been occupied or annexed, and nobody in my neighborhood has been hauled off to the salt mines. So, in its cumbersome, tedious, horribly innefficient way, the government is helping me live a decent life, and all it asks for in return is half of my money and permission to annoy me from time to time.
Alterother, May 28 2012
  

       Pretty much the same as here in a constitutional monarchy then.
Except, no longer having the need for a well-regulated militia, the grizzlies, browns and polars get to keep their fore-limbs.
AbsintheWithoutLeave, May 28 2012
  

       Say, do the polar bears in Canada and Russia have to turn brown too, or is it just the ones in Alaska?
UnaBubba, May 28 2012
  

       //Well, for starters, we have too many damn laws.//   

       Ahem... See link. (Only because you didn't seem to be such a fan the first time around, [Alter] ;-) )
ytk, May 29 2012
  

       What I hate is when the tip or 'gratuity' is quoted as part of the price. For example, I recently booked a car to take me to the airport in the US and the quote was "$115 + 20% gratuity" - What!? - if you mean $138, just say so.

That Oregon/New Jersey law sounds like Soviet Russia. Also, do some pumps pump faster than others? I've never heard of that before.
hippo, May 29 2012
  

       //I recently booked a car to take me to the airport in the US and the quote was "$115 + 20% gratuity"//   

       Because it's a situation where a tip is generally expected, so this makes it clear both that the base price is $115, and the customary tip is 20%. Of course, since it's a tip, you're not /required/ to leave 20%. But if they just said $138, it would be unclear that the price includes the (optional) tip. It's just not the custom here to include the tip in the price.   

       Honestly, when foreigners complain about tipping in the U.S. it just makes them sound like whiners. It's not that hard to do the math, and being able to tip or not tip /does/ give you the option to punish exceptionally poor service. In countries where there's generally no tipping expected, the prices are higher to compensate, so it's pretty much a wash either way. And it's not like there are that many situations where a tip is expected: restaurants, taxi rides, bellhops, parking valets (sorry [Alterother], this is the expected custom, and their wages are below market in expectation of this fact—you're just being cheap and you know it), and a couple of other situations that you can easily look up online if you're not sure. The fact is that, apart from the few "standard" tipping situations, there's not really a clear guideline for many tipping situations, so it's pretty hard to go really wrong.   

       When Americans travel to foreign countries, we're rightly expected to learn the local customs and abide by them without complaining vociferously about how ridiculous they are or using feigned ignorance of them to excuse boorish behavior. I see no reason not to expect the same of visitors to our country.
ytk, May 29 2012
  

       //Because it's a situation where a tip is generally expected, so this makes it clear both that the base price is $115, and the customary tip is 20%. Of course, since it's a tip, you're not /required/ to leave 20%.//
I always thought a tip was 15%.
This is confusing.
AbsintheWithoutLeave, May 29 2012
  

       //I always thought a tip was 15%. This is confusing.//   

       Depends on the situation. In this case, they're indicating the tip is 20% because they obviously want you to leave a higher tip. 20% isn't unreasonable for excellent service in my opinion, but just leave whatever amount you think is reasonable and don't worry about it too much.
ytk, May 29 2012
  

       //When Americans travel to foreign countries, we're rightly expected to learn the local customs and abide by them without complaining vociferously about how ridiculous they are or using feigned ignorance of them to excuse boorish behavior//   

       You might want to spread the word with your cousins, who routinely complain loudly and publicly about anything and everything, when they visit other countries. There's a reason the rest of the world thinks Yanks are all loudmouthed, inconsiderate wankers, you know.
UnaBubba, May 29 2012
  

       //You might want to spread the word with your cousins, who routinely complain loudly and publicly about anything and everything, when they visit other countries.//   

       They shouldn't. Anyway, I doubt it's really "routine". You just only notice it when it occurs, and like to jerk off while thinking of yourself as cosmopolitan and worldly by comparison. And then you come here and pretend you can't wrap your brain around tipping. There's a reason why Americans think the rest of the Western world is filled with smug but ultimately useless wastes of premium real estate, you know.
ytk, May 29 2012
  

       Yep. You're absolutely right.
UnaBubba, May 29 2012
  

       You can breathe easy though, [Ubba]. We love the Aussies. Even Randy Newman don't wanna hurt no kangaroo.
ytk, May 29 2012
  

       Yep. You're absolutely right.
UnaBubba, May 29 2012
  

       //And then you come here and pretend you can't wrap your brain around tipping.//
No, there's no pretence, we genuinely can't.
Do you tip a librarian (who gives the same service as a waiter)?
Do you tip a shop assistant (who gives the same service as a bartender)?
Seriously, cut it out - it's weird.

Still, I suppose we should be grateful less than a third of them have passports.
AbsintheWithoutLeave, May 29 2012
  

       bun for what [blissmiss] said! totally elegant pumps would attract more attention!
xandram, May 29 2012
  

       [ytk], I agreed with your motivation, I just wasn't a fan of your proposed methodology.
Alterother, May 29 2012
  

       //No, there's no pretence, we genuinely can't.//   

       All of your tipping-related questions can be answered via a quick search on the Goog, or simply consult any travel guide. But it's really not that difficult. For food service (anything above fast food, that is), you tip. For cars/taxis and parking valets, you tip. For most services in a hotel, you tip. Otherwise, you generally don't tip. There are a few other tipping situations, but you're not terribly likely to encounter them as a tourist (furniture delivery, for example). But if you're still confused and it seems like it might be a tipping situation, just ask politely. Smile abashedly and play up the foreign thing, and you won't offend anybody. Most employees who aren't customarily tipped are prohibited from accepting them anyway, and just the offer will be taken as a compliment for good service.   

       [Alter], call it a quarter-bun then?
ytk, May 29 2012
  

       I hate apps. All apps.
Phrontistery, May 29 2012
  

       I grew up in Oregon, so I can clarify a few points. I can't say anything about New Jersey.   

       1) Before today, the thought of paying a tip to the person filling my gas tank had never crossed my mind. I've never heard of it and have never seen anyone do it. Possibly related: there is no sales tax in Oregon either. Oregonians are used to paying what is on the price tag, but tipping at restaurants is unfortunately standard.   

       2) Regardless of the "official" reasons that the law was enacted many years ago, I lived through the arguments as gas stations lobbied to repeal the law and people voted to keep it in place. The arguments against allowing self serve seemed to come down to the fact that people didn’t want to have to get out of the car and get their hands dirty, and they are afraid that if self-service is allowed, any station that does offer full service will have ridiculous prices. Then they give a sob story about not wanting to make Grandma pump her own gas. Of course my mom (now a grandmother) has never pumped gas into a car before so doesn't like the idea of starting now. The gas stations lobbying in favor of allowing self serve always said the gas prices would be lower at self service stations, but people assumed that the companies would drop the service and not lower the price enough to make a difference. Comparing to the gas prices in Washington state (often higher), who can blame them. Of course it’s hard to compares prices without taking the state gas taxes into account, which no one ever seemed to do.   

       3) You only have to get out of your car to pay at the really cheap stations like Arco. Arco used to take cash from your window and give you correct change. When they started making people go in to pay, our theory was that this was to purposely annoy people to encourage the repeal of the anti-self-service law. Then I went to Washington and discovered that Arco made me stand in line twice: once to prepay, and again to get my change. I think they're actually hoping I'll buy something in the store (fat chance). Anyway, with most Oregon stations, you hand your credit card to the attendant out the window, they stick it into the slot in the pump and hand it back to you, and hand you the receipt when the pumping is done.   

       4) Commercial fueling stations are exempt, so my dad would fill up his company-owned truck at a self serve station.   

       5) I’m pretty sure there weren’t any unions involved. Gas station attendants are mostly kids figuring out that they should have worked harder in high school so they could go to college.
scad mientist, May 29 2012
  

       //Gas station attendants are mostly kids figuring out that they should have worked harder in high school so they could go to college.//   

       They're called "petroleum transfer technicians".
ytk, May 29 2012
  

       I didn't actually mean to suggest that labor unions were involved in the no-self-service thing; I was just drawing a correlation between the dubious rationale given for such legislation and similar shifty language employed by some unions.
Alterother, May 30 2012
  

       I think the term you're after is "featherbedding", [Alter].   

       It's used to describe "cosy" work practices that effectively make an industry or position uneconomical, to benefit a select few, usually employees.
UnaBubba, May 30 2012
  

       Yes, that's exactly what I meant. There are a few other less complimentary and decidedly blue-collar terms for it, but I've heard that one before and it will do nicely.
Alterother, May 30 2012
  

       //For most services in a hotel, you tip.//
Pool lifeguard?
AbsintheWithoutLeave, May 30 2012
  
      
[annotate]
  


 

back: main index

business  computer  culture  fashion  food  halfbakery  home  other  product  public  science  sport  vehicle