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Under Sea Ice Dome

So... can I drink the walls?
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Unlike most of you, I like to play around with theories such as this and post them here, be they workable or not.

Most people picture or imagine under sea bases to be man made metal structures. This idea is to harness the power of Ice to live under water.

You start by building a large cooling facility at a very cold region. Such as Hudson Bay, or Antartica. This facility pumps up water from the ocean into a giant mold. The mold, will form the dome's outer shell.

Once the dome mold is filled with water, a hole can be cut in the ice near the structure and the mold, sunk into the ocean for freezing. As soon as it is frozen, it can be lifted out of the water. A team of specialists would drill a hole in the side where the airlock will be fitted. The layer of metal lining the inside of the dome will be left in place for support.

A layer of water resistant metal is applied to the outside of the Dome, for support and seperation of the Dome Water from the Ocean Water. Naturally the Dome will have an Ice underside. The Metal will cover the bottom as well.

As soon as the Metal is applied, and the Airlock attached, construction of a traditional (Metal constructed Human living space) Dome is constructed inside the dome. This dome is heavily insulated to keep the Heat from inside from the Dome's inside.

Next, the Dome's outer Metal layer is attached to a set of cables connected to previously pile drived Anchors. The Dome is slowly and surely lowered into the Deep by tightening the Cables. I'm sure there are equilibrium issues with a Water Dome, but I'm sure a different shape could do the job as well.

EvilPickels, Jul 21 2005

Pykrete (Ice & wood pulp) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pykrete
They were going to build an aircraft carrier out of this in 1942. [Zimmy, Jul 21 2005]

Floating Ice Islands http://www.mms.gov/...oject%20Summary.pdf
Used in Alaska by Oil & Gas Exploraition Companies. [Zimmy, Jul 23 2005]

[link]






       Mr [Pickels] this is a collossus of an idea. My take on it would be to freeze the water at the sea-bed, rather than all that pumping, moulding and lowering. Once a huge enough dollop of ice has formed, you could heat it from within to engineer a space in which to live.   

       The only tricky part is the tendency for ice to float. I'm not sure, but doesn't bouyancy change at higher depths?
zen_tom, Jul 21 2005
  

       I think you would have to use desalinated water (I think that's the right word for it), because salt water freezes at temperatures a lot lower than 0 degrees Centigrade...   

       Bun bun bun!!
froglet, Jul 21 2005
  

       Strange, I didn't think this one would be a good one...   

       :D Thanks!
EvilPickels, Jul 21 2005
  

       Same here [EvilPickels] - I didn't think my Evil Genius Camp would be very well-recieved either, yet it's got one of my highest buns yet.
froglet, Jul 21 2005
  

       Your highest buns ?   

       I've seen Ronald McDonald naked...he had sesame seed buns.
normzone, Jul 21 2005
  

       Pykrete would work great for this.
I wonder if you would need ballast chambers like submarines do?
Zimmy, Jul 21 2005
  

       // Your highest buns ? //   

       Well, the highest amount of positive vote from fellow bakers, then.
froglet, Jul 21 2005
  

       "Water resistant" metal - the way that term is usually used, *all* metals are water resistant. The better term in this context might be "non-reactive."   

       I'm not altogether sure of the mechanics of your construction, but croissant for the concept.
DrCurry, Jul 21 2005
  

       I don't get it. What's the point of the ice, when you have the metal dome on the outside? And if you want to live in an underwater ice dome, why not exploit a natural feature in an ice shelf, and fill it with air?
ldischler, Jul 21 2005
  

       / why not exploit a natural feature in an ice shelf, and fill it with air?/ - Some seal infested natural feature? What if it is in a bad neighborhood?   

       I like the Ice Dome. I like it better without metal. Just saran wrap on the outside. If sunken in supercold seawater, it might never get warm enough to melt. The ice would be all the structural support you need. Likewise, why not make your living quarters out of blown foam - the walls _are_ the insulation.   

       It would need ballast. I propose a great gnarly boulder, or a pillar from some prehuman ruins lying around in the antarctic. That reminds me of the Katabatic generator. Maybe I will see what is up over there.   

       Glad you're back, [EP].
bungston, Jul 22 2005
  

       Ice floats, which would make for a good escape method (just cut the cables to rise up) for when the structure starts leaking or cracking.   

       I'm thinking you could use [bungston's] saran wrap, and ideally have many layers to prevent crack propagation. Or use composites of garbage+ice.
sophocles, Jul 22 2005
  

       Pykrete - Wood pulp & Ice? Very strong (like concrete) & Higher melting point.
//I've seen Ronald McDonald naked...he had sesame seed buns// Very funny!
Zimmy, Jul 22 2005
  

       I have been thinking about the ice dome and ice construction in general. It is sort of like using sod to build on the prairie. Plus the rebel fort on Hoth was cool.   

       1. Consider that ice would be good to build with in Antarctica, period. You could set up a tentlike frame in the shape of a dome, above ground. Then spray it with seawater. You could build the dome with the spray. You would not need any special cooling mechanism - do it on a cold day. Using saltwater might lead to brine inclusions and reduce strength - if to be used aboveground that is not so big a deal. Even underwater it might be ok.   

       2. The dome will build up as you spray. It needs to be a dome so the ice will support itself.   

       3. Once done, the dome could sit topside. If built on an ice shelf, you could cut around the dome circumferentially and it will sink - not all the way, but like an iceberg. You could go in and out through the top. Precut portholes around the bottom will let you look out at the seals.   

       4. Build a new dome on top! When cut free, the bottomone will go deeper. Eventually the lowest dome will be crushed by water pressure. Move your stuff out of it before that happens. Clean up that loose saran wrap too or a seal might eat it.
bungston, Jul 22 2005
  

       [bungston] There is a precedent for spray forming ice structures in the Artics. (see link)
Zimmy, Jul 23 2005
  

       The amazing pykrete again.
DesertFox, Jul 23 2005
  

       Thanks for the links, [Zimmy]. I knew nothing about this. I wonder if it there is something special about the wood component of Pykrete, or if it was just invented by analogy to particleboard? Would pebbles and ice be equally strong, in analogy to concrete?
bungston, Jul 24 2005
  

       I'm sort of back, but I failed to mention the point for the slim metal outer shell. This shell should contain the walls, so if they start melting a layer of water will build up between, making the melting of the walls obvious. Think of it sort of like those cups with a two layers and water fit in between them. I don'tknow how you would tell that it is melting but I think inventing a way for that to happen is a simple one. Some electronic sensors, or some mechanical porthole or something should do it.   

       I'm not sure how they could melt but it is a good idea to be prepared. With global warming and all who knows what whacky things might happen. There is a theory that global warming could cause a global ice age because of under sea currents, or all the polar ice could melt. I just graduated high school a week and a half ago. Yay me! I think I'm going to do engineering, architecture, or video game development. I know tons about games, and they are my passion. I need a blog! :D   

       Oh and this is the original evilpickels, not a new one. I'm not sure you can even delete an account on here can you? I bet jutta could do so. I deleted all my ideas because I got scared of people taking them.
EvilPickels, Jun 09 2008
  

       Why not use concrete? All problems with bouyancy would remedy by matching the thickness of the dome wall to the internal mass of air. Air, being lighter than water, will exert an upward force on the inside of the dome. If the dome is heavy enough to exactly match or exceed this upward force, the dome will stay on the bottom.   

       Also, concrete can be poured and cured under water because the curing is due to chemical reactions between the materials the cement is made of - it has little to do with outside temperatures. The double-hulled dome 'mold' could be removed from the cured (solid) dome and reused many times.   

       Finally, as a plus, concrete can be reinforced with stainless steel rods or wire and be far stronger in compression and tension than any ice/pykrete structure of similar volume.
Moonguy, Jun 10 2008
  

       Wow, fast forward a couple years, and this site is still great! I love the simplicity of this site, I can't stand having to look for a feature I need! This is one of the few places people actually accept me, apart from real life! Just about every messageboard I go to people eventually hate me, which really ruins my day. Apparently I'm a jerk :D   

       The real reason I posted here was I have been playing a game called Global Agenda a lot lately, and just recently got to the Max Sec SCRAMBLE map. As soon as I saw the maps loading screen, I instantly thought of my old idea for that water in the ocean power generation idea that I deleted! It makes me wonder if the devs liked my idea and made it into a map! At first I was angry, because these days I still think of ideas but I keep them to myself.   

       I don't want them taken. Now I came here to see if I still had that idea written on here, and I thought its not such a bad thing if someone likes my idea and wants to use it in their game Universe! I was worried someone might actually implement the idea, which would really make me mad and disappoint me, but I do remember you guys thought it was impossible and a perpetual motion machine.   

       So I've got a question: if I don't want some idea taken, what should I do? Right now I'm keeping a whole trove of ideas under wraps until I decide to act on them some day. But I just don't know if they're any good, so maybe post them here for you guys to take judge? I would be afraid of someone seeing them and using them, but wouldn't posting them in public before someone uses them effectively claim it? Like a patent?   

       So then maybe if I know someone read one of my ideas and used them without my permission, I could take action with a lawsuit or something? I know its hard to prove.   

       I don't know how a patent works, and I don't think I could defend it or pay for the rights anyway.
EvilPickels, Aug 14 2011
  

       // I like to play around with theories ... and post them here, be they workable or not. //   

       Unlike most of us? I thought that was why we're here.
Alterother, Aug 14 2011
  

       Alterother, that was... 6 years ago? I've forgotten why I said that, but yes you are right! I am pretty sure it wasn't meant to be condescending, my words usually end up looking that way >_<
EvilPickels, Aug 15 2011
  

       I didn't take it that way at all, no worries. I also failed to notice the relevant dates until much later. I was cruising at maximum altitude with the 'fasten seat belts' sign turned off when I read this the first time. Sorry about that.   

       Welcome back, BTW.
Alterother, Aug 15 2011
  

       Ok, I see. I wasn't mad, though that kind of comment normally would make me mad. XD   

       Now if someone could just answer my question. :D
EvilPickels, Aug 20 2011
  

       Since this is a public forum, I would assume that anything recorded here is automatically assumed to be public domain; even if it wasn't, you'd never make a case out if it, because the other party could simply claim they'd had the idea on their own and had never even heard of HB, much less visited the site and copied your idea. In all likelihood, that would be the truth. If you can think of something, somebody else can, too.   

       I once came up with what I thought was an original joke concerning the origins of the statue of liberty, only to have my dad laugh aloud and say "I haven't heard that one since I was a teenager!"
Alterother, Aug 20 2011
  

       Ignoring the sensible suggestion of concrete Here is how I would make my under water ice dome.   

       Start with a large piece of nylon mesh, securely anchored to and supported above the sea bed, by its 4 corners   

       pump under neath this a mixture of; mud from the sea bed, sawdust, straw and liquid air. This mix will form dirty snowballs of small ice crystals stuck to the other components. These will float up and push the net into a dome shape.   

       As this starts to melt and the straw pokes through the mesh, cooling coils would would be fitted to the inside of the dome.   

       With the cooling coils switched on the inside will be plastered with a mixture of artificial snow and polystyrene. Whilst on the out side a new dome of solid clean ice will form securely anchored to the straw that was poking out   

       entry would be from underneath so no need for air locks.
j paul, Aug 20 2011
  
      
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