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WaterDiscs

Underwater Frisbee!
 
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Just like it sounds, this sport is played just like frisbee, only underwater, with SCUBA gear. The frisbee would be very thin and hydrodynamic, only slightly thicker than a watch battery, so it would move very fast as it slices through the water. It would probably be made of some lightweight metal, like aluminum.

This game would take more skill than conventional frisbee, because you can't move your arms as fast underwater so you'd have to anticipate the disc's trajectory sooner.

To make it easier to see in the water, it would be painted very bright colors, with a ring of LEDs around the perimeter, powered by watch batteries.

To make this a spectator sport, it could be played in a large aquarium.

(edit) Also, for safety's sake, players would wear special goggles with cages to protect the face and lenses from being struck by a fast-flying disk, pads would be worn wherever practical, and oxygen bottles would be coated with rubber for dent/ding protection.

People, please understand that this would be classified as an *extreme* sport! Extreme Sports are not exactly known for being "gentle". Look at Rugby, or American Football, or any contact sport for that matter. If your only concern is getting hurt, then don't play. It doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

21 Quest, Jan 23 2006

Baked to a crisp. http://www.scubatoy...PRODUCT_ID=AquaDisk
Remember - always Google. Google is your friend. OK, so no LEDs. [coprocephalous, Jan 23 2006]

Aquadisc http://images.googl...en%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
EDIT - [copro] beat me to it with his superfast googlefinger [wagster, Jan 23 2006]

Anti-Corrosion http://www.mgchemic.../products/8461.html
This allows for safe addition of magnetic strips. Silicone greese might be better, but the point is that suitable lube is available. [21 Quest, Jan 23 2006]

Magnetic aluminum http://www.amazon.c...34-6169502?n=228013
Aluminum can be magnetized [21 Quest, Jan 23 2006]

Toypedo Twister http://www.swimways...D-22ECE3120413&pg=1
Great fun, but 40 feet is probably a little optimistic [coprocephalous, Jan 24 2006]

Blitzball http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzball
[notmarkflynn, Jan 25 2006]

[link]






       I'm guessing you've never played frisbee underwater, then. The disk is made of rubber, is neutrally buoyant and about 1-2cm thick in the centre tapering to about 0.5-1 cm thick at the edge. The throwing action is very different due to the resistance of water on the forearm.
st3f, Jan 23 2006
  

       Actually, I haven't, you're right. The part about neutral buoyancy is correct, though, and I had that in mind. Your frisbee sounds like a pretty good one. I'd still like to have the LEDs on it for added visibility, if not for the players then for the spectators.
21 Quest, Jan 23 2006
  

       [linky]. Not as much fun as a Toypedo Twister, though.
coprocephalous, Jan 23 2006
  

       Wouldn't aluminum possibly be a better material for this than rubber? I think the lightweight properties as compared to rubber would give it greater range underwater, and it could have a rubber ring around the edge to soften impact in the reciever's hands. Those "Aqua Discs" only have a range of 20-30 feet, which isn't very far at all.
21 Quest, Jan 23 2006
  

       //Those "Aqua Discs" only have a range of 20-30 feet, which isn't very far at all.// 30 feet is pretty good visibility for many of the sites I dive. Actually, for some, 3 feet is good.
AbsintheWithoutLeave, Jan 23 2006
  

       30 feet may be good visibility with the naked eye, but with goggles that improves greatly. I've dived in Okinawa, Japan, where the water is crystal clear and with goggles you can see a person much farther out than 30 feet, especially if that person is wearing a brightly colored wetsuit, such as red, yellow, orange, or even light blue. This would not be played in murky water. It would be played in clear pool water.
  

       Also, if the players have lights on their suits, this would improve the range of the game even more. The idea is to overcome the limiting properties of water by improving visibility. Nobody's going to watch a sport that has a playing field of only sixty feet or so.
21 Quest, Jan 23 2006
  

       [21Q] Water is 800 times denser than air - it is unlikely you could move your arm fast enough to chuck anything underwater much further than 30 or 40 feet.
BTW, I'm a PADI divemaster - I *always* dive with goggles. A red wetsuit is just about as bad as a black one for visibility underwater.
AbsintheWithoutLeave, Jan 23 2006
  

       However, having the players only able to see a portion of the playing field adds a touch of uncertainty that requires a good deal of strategy to overcome, which makes the game that much more interesting.
21 Quest, Jan 23 2006
  

       This could work very well. Aluminum can be magnetized, can it not?
21 Quest, Jan 23 2006
  

       No, it can't.
coprocephalous, Jan 23 2006
  

       Two words : bi-metallic corrosion.
coprocephalous, Jan 23 2006
  

       Two words, [copro]: silicone grease (or lithium grease) see the link.
21 Quest, Jan 23 2006
  

       I wonder what's the world record for throwing something underwater? Not vertically, of course.
Ling, Jan 23 2006
  

       sp. "grease"
So you're underwater, trying hard to chuck something, and some joker coats it in grease?
Yes, that would do wonders for your grip.
coprocephalous, Jan 23 2006
  

       It would, if the grease is on the inside, between the aluminum and the magnet, with a rubber seal to separate it from the water. This isn't as complicated as it sounds: An aluminum disc, a magnetic strip, and two rubber O-Rings. Yeah, the LEDs make it more complicated to build, but it wouldn't be that hard. In fact, one of the guys in the sheet metal shop here at work says he can make one in 3 hours, if he could get get away with a personal project like that without some A-hole staff sergeant busting him for it. The aluminum disc would be hollow, so all you'd need to do is drill some holes for the LEDs and put some batteries inside with wires going to the LEDs. Not hard at all. This base is dedicated to aircraft maintenance. We know how to make things airtight, and we know how to treat/prevent corrosion, and, most importantly, we know how to make something fly through a resistive medium.
21 Quest, Jan 23 2006
  

       See my link for magnetic aluminum, [copro]. As you like to say so much, "google is your friend". And thanks, [druze] have you ideas you'd suggest?
21 Quest, Jan 23 2006
  

       Well, thanks for suggesting the magnetism in the first place [Druze]. I'm sure there could be other ways to improve grip, but too much and you take away the sport of it. I'm sure gloves with rubber or leather grips would be good enough.
21 Quest, Jan 23 2006
  

       OK, so in an already potentially hazardous environment, we're going to be throwing dense metal objects comprising magnetised aluminium, towards other divers with glass mask on their faces and who may be carrying large ferrous tanks on their backs?
Well, if that isn't halfbaked, I don't know what is.
AbsintheWithoutLeave, Jan 23 2006
  

       Who said we'd be throwing "dense metal" [absinthe]? We're talking aluminum and itty-bitty watch batteries, ok? This stuff ain't exactly what I'd call dense. Besides, if the air tanks are coated in rubber, they would be well protected from something as light as these disks.
  

       And as far as //glass mask on their faces//, try plastic or shatter-resistant polycarbonate lenses. These things are pretty hard to break. I've had these same glasses on the flightline for almost 2 years and they've never broken, and they've been hit pretty hard, too.
21 Quest, Jan 23 2006
  

       I think what AWOL is alluding to is that there might be being a reason why scuba toys are made of rubber rather than metal. It's not so much a matter of density as hardness.
  

       My mask is made of tempered glass, but I'd still rather not be throwing metal objects about, particularly if you engineer them to be thinner and have shaper edges so that they can travel further and faster.
st3f, Jan 23 2006
  

       Understandable, but in a sport like this, you'd have masks designed for such things. Perhaps adding a plastic or metal cage around the goggles like a football helmet would soothe your anxiety?
21 Quest, Jan 23 2006
  

       //Perhaps adding a plastic or metal cage around the goggles like a football helmet would soothe your anxiety?// S'gonna make getting a regulator in a bit of a problem, isn't it?
AbsintheWithoutLeave, Jan 23 2006
  

       Not if the cage is built to accomodate the regulator. Take a look at a football player's mask and tell me there's not enough room for a regulator under that! Also, if other methods than magnets were used to improve grip and the rim had a band of rubber around it, as I suggested orignally (see anno #4) there would be no hazard. And the disk isn't exactly razor sharp, it would be about the same thickness as the rim of a coke bottle. Padded gloves would offer plenty of protection, even without rubber on the disk itself.
  

       People, please understand that this would be classified as an *extreme* sport! Extreme Sports are not exactly known for being "gentle". Look at Rugby, or American Football, or any contact sport for that matter. If your only concern is getting hurt, then don't play. It doesn't mean it's a bad idea.
21 Quest, Jan 23 2006
  

       Magnetic Aluminium! Ha, Ha, Ha...
  

       It's Paramagnetic, which basically means that it very slightly contributes to an existing field. Normally un-noticeable.
  

       The link describes an aluminium spirit level with an inserted magnetic strip.
Ling, Jan 23 2006
  

       Damn, you guys are giving [21 quest] a hell of a time. Bun for the patience. And the fun idea!
  

       Can teammates ride on giant stingrays? I think, if anyone's gonna figure this one out, it'd be the author.
daseva, Jan 23 2006
  

       Gosh, I'm surprised that anyone is able to throw anything submerged more than three feet or so.
bristolz, Jan 24 2006
  

       [bris] The Toypedo twister I mentioned above looks like a miniature V2 rocket about 25cm long, weighing about a kilogramme and is slightly negatively buoyant, but seems to generate lift from the shape of its body and fins.
I can just about "throw" (actually "push") one from just below the surface to the far bottom corner of a 10m wide, 4m deep pool. It is probably the furthest I have ever seen an object thrown underwater.
As has been pointed out, it is incredibly difficult to throw anything underwater - you simply cannot move your arm fast enough to give it any power.
Credit to [21] for persistence and inventiveness, though I'm still unclear what purpose the magnets serve, other than to adhere to the SCUBA tanks.
coprocephalous, Jan 24 2006
  

       The magnets were an idea proposed by [druze] to improve the players' grip on the disk, I think. It sounded like a good idea so I went with it.
21 Quest, Jan 24 2006
  

       Oh...well shit....still a good idea. Improve throwing power, huh? Underwater you'd need all the hlp you can get, so great idea.
21 Quest, Jan 24 2006
  

       //Not for that reason, 21 Quest; my thinking was that magnetic wristlets on the players would exert force on a magnetised disc and improve its motility in water.// Oh, so the idea is for water boomerangs?
coprocephalous, Jan 24 2006
  

       Maybe an accessory throwing-arm sleeve that is shaped to reduce the drag?
bristolz, Jan 24 2006
  

       To be fair [druze], [copro] has a good point - even *if* the magnetic wristlets were to exert any noticable force on the moving disc, it would be the closest one (i.e. the one on the thrower's arm) which did the most.
fridge duck, Jan 24 2006
  

       Wow, when I first read this idea and found out it was baked I really thought it would get ignored and sink out of view after a couple of annos. Just goes to show. I don't know what it goes to show, but it just goes to show it.
wagster, Jan 25 2006
  

       Dunno [wags] maybe it is something to do with how it has morphed from a baked, fun, underwater game to an extreme sport in the space of just a few edits.
I like the oxygen bit though - that will limit the depth of play to about 20 feet - make it trickier.
AbsintheWithoutLeave, Jan 25 2006
  

       //Also, for safety's sake, players would wear special goggles with cages // And breathing apparatus! That's kind of important too.
Dub, Jan 25 2006
  

       [Dub] Psst, that's taken care of with the SCUBA bit.
coprocephalous, Jan 25 2006
  

       Can you play this with a dog?
ldischler, Jan 25 2006
  

       Assuming he's house and PADI trained, sure.
coprocephalous, Jan 25 2006
  

       <Peasant>that's taken care of with the SCUBA bit.<//Peasant> And that doesn't SCUBA doesn't already include a face mask?
  

       Oops, sorry, should have been <pedant>.
Dub, Jan 25 2006
  

       <peasant alert> //And that doesn't SCUBA doesn't already include a face mask// SCUBA equipment doesn't usually include a face-mask, no. Though it is considered advisable to wear one, to improve vision.
coprocephalous, Jan 25 2006
  

       Oh.
Dub, Jan 25 2006
  

       I'd think you'd want a very heavy disc. An aluminum disk, no matter how thin, probably would only travel 2 to 5 feet underwater even if mechanically accelerated. The "thinness" doesn't help much either, as there's still massive amounts of friction on the top and bottom of the disc.
Laimak, Jan 25 2006
  

       By the way, when I mentioned the face mask, I didn't mean the goggles that cover your nose and improve vision. I already mentioned goggles in a previous anno. I meant like a football-type face mask to prevent the goggles from getting scratched or broken by the disk.
21 Quest, Jan 25 2006
  

       You're enthusiastic, I'll give you that, 21Q. I hope the debate here spurs you on to do a try-dive and have a play with the current generation of underwater toys. It might give you a better perspective of what is currently done and why people might or might not be interested in participating in underwater frisbee as a sport.
  

       Laimak: I think you're being a bit conservative. I can throw the existing rubber frisbees further than that.
st3f, Jan 25 2006
  

       Anyone up for a game of Blitzball?
notmarkflynn, Jan 25 2006
  

       Actually, Blitzball's what inspired this idea, lol. I figured disks might be a little easier to throw under water, though. I'm sure Wakka would agree. He might like the idea of SCUBA gear, too. They had to hold their breath in the game. If Blitzball were real, they'd have to break about every 2 minutes for air.
21 Quest, Jan 25 2006
  

       I hated playing blitzball. For fun, I'd try to see if I could hold my breath for a full round of play.
notmarkflynn, Jan 26 2006
  

       I kinda liked the concept of Blitzball, but I hated the turn-based play. I actually got pretty good at it for a while, then I just sort of lost interest after playing it repeatedly for several months trying to get Wakka's ultimate weapon, which I never did.
21 Quest, Jan 27 2006
  

       Churn, Churn, Churn, Churn
  

       Churn, Churn Churn, Churn
  

       Lovely Chuuuuuuurn.....
  

       Wonderful Chuuurn....
ConsulFlaminicus, Jan 27 2006
  

       Don't like Blitzball, but I'll happily have a game of 21 Waterdiscs.
wagster, Jan 27 2006
  

       what the hell... you want to throw things under water? and you want to make the thrown object light? and you want to throw it like you would a frisbee?
  

       Less weight = less energy in the forward force = less range
  

       Throwing any other way than straight push = too much resistance.
  

       Throwing anything other than a heavy ball-like object filled with sugar-water = slightest flip stops it dead in it's tracks.
Zus, Sep 17 2006
  

       Ok, my ideas for improvement:
  

       Perhaps a thin, streamlined throwing aid (a little like a womera) to help get the velocity higher (less resistance on the throwing aid than your arm = higher throwing speed)
  

       You could possibly pipe a small ammount of air out a series of holes along the leading edge of this throwing aid to reduce drag. I imagine that would reduce drag quite alot.
  

       If you allow the disc to be slightly thicker, you could incorporate a very small reservior in it, that could be regularly charged up via each player's scuba kit. It could then seep a small ammount of air about its rim, thus reducing its own drag. At some point it would be more efficient for all factors involved, to increase the size of the disc. It may well be that your point of maximum efficiency is to have a disc say 1" thick, and a foot across (to be neutrally buoyant it would weigh ~ 1.76 kg). Hell, someone do some testing.
  

       As usual 21Quest, well thought out. You're really like a bulldog on a pork chop, aren't you? bully for you. [+]
Custardguts, Sep 18 2006
  
      
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