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Personnel Suppression Weapon

Adapt current lethal weapon concepts to non-lethal purposes
  (+7, -4)
(+7, -4)
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Many lethal weapons both modern and ancient are the result of a combination of simpler weapons. The first that springs to mind is the M16/M203 which adds a 40mm grenade launcher(which can fire a host of different projectiles in addition to grenades) to an assault rifle. Take this premise and build a non-lethal weapon from scratch and you would get the PSW. Perfect for any situation where violence is the only alternative, but the use of lethal force is out of the question.

The base weapon the PSW is built on would be a high end paintball gun with a modular design to simplify cleaning and the addition of various accessories. The barrel would be short compared to most lethal firearms, the most consistently effective length for a paintball gun is approx. 14" so the weapon would be maneuverable in close range.

Instead of a lethal bladed bayonet, have an integrated stungun along the underside of the barrel. Also attach a 40mm grenade launcher on either the left or right side via mountings on either side to suit personal preference. This launcher would be the base system for heavier non-lethal weapons such as airfoils, beanbags, tear gas grenades and even modified flashbangs.

This would allow you to engage wouldbe troublemakers, be they rioters, rabid hockey or soccer fans, passive-aggressive Buddist, tree-hugging hippies or even those pesky mimes, at immediate close range combat via stungun, fire a beanbag, airfoil or other zero penetration projectile for close range using the launcher, fire either "pepperballs" or solid rubbershot out for moderate-long range(an added bonus is paintball guns have much higher ammo capacity than real guns, around 140-200 depending on hopper size, allowing the officer to really cut loose on a crowd if need be) and lob tear gas grenades for crowd control at range.

Not to mention you could launch colored flares that represent a clear "caution, behave or we will make you behave" warning.

Paired with my previous idea "pepperspray riot vests", this would equip police departments around the world with the effiency to quickly restore order and also reduce possible injuries to those involved.

scott_r_uber, Nov 06 2005

Pepperspray Riot Vests Pepperspray_20Riot_20Vests
[scott_r_uber, Nov 06 2005]

P90 inspired combat shotgun P90_20inspired_20combat_20shotgun
My killer gun that was pooped on [scott_r_uber, Nov 07 2005]

[link]






       I am so damn tired of those passive-aggressive Buddists.
Zuzu, Nov 06 2005
  

       A "Buddist" - um, what would that be, someone who seeks spiritual enlightenment through drinking Budweiser?   

       Oh, fishbone for the "non-lethal" weapon thing, for the reasons given on previous ideas in the same vein.
DrCurry, Nov 06 2005
  

       Feh [DrCurry], I come up with an idea for a badassed lethal weapon and everyone craps on it, then I come up with a nonlethal one and you have to crap on it. Damnit, I think opening a fertilizer store is my only recourse now... And besides, it's not neccessarily nonlethal, it has a 40mm grenade launcher that can lob HE grenades just as easily as tear gas.
scott_r_uber, Nov 07 2005
  

       sru: you just can't win, mate.
DrCurry, Nov 07 2005
  

       Your idea is ok, but your anti-hippie/mime policy gets you my vote
MikeOxbig, Nov 07 2005
  

       I'm afraid I have to side with [DrC]. Your idea may have technical merit but comments like these:
\\tree-hugging hippies or even those pesky mimes\\ \\"caution, behave or we will make you behave"\\ \\allowing the officer to really cut loose on a crowd if need be\\ make it difficult for me to rid myself of the mental image I have of you writing this idea, in some basement filled with Nazi memorabilia with a Confederate flag draped about your shoulders.

You seem like a clever chap, why not try using that expertise to come up with an invention that does something other than killing/suppressing?
DocBrown, Nov 07 2005
  

       Don't take it personally [scott]. A lot of people here are very much against violence in general. It isn't an easy category to get votes in.
hidden truths, Nov 07 2005
  

       There is far too much underutilized shit that can be weaponized.
reensure, Nov 07 2005
  

       The trouble with this is paintball pelets dont really hurt that much (yes they sting, but you arent going to duck and cover from them). Exsisting suppression devices like bean bags shots actually take down people so they are unable to move. Having a stungun would also be dangerous as the charge would travel down through anyone in contact with whoever is hit, including officers.
miasere, Nov 07 2005
  

       /The trouble with this is paintball pelets dont really hurt that much/ - because they pop. Put them in the freezer for a while, try it and report back.   

       I like this. Sometimes there are riots, and the police need to restore order. They must be able to inflict violence but even more important is they must _appear_ able to inflict violence. A wall of armored officers is one thing: that same wall with guns firing is another. It would be good if these things were loud. Weaponizing a paintball gun means it would be cheap, as well. If you used conventional paintballs, you could fill the balls with stuff besides paint (eg foul odorants) to make them more effective.
bungston, Nov 07 2005
  

       [DocBrown], It's only natural people are going to come up with ideas that relate to themselves or their interests and as I've said in other ideas I've had to defend: I come from a military family, with a father that has served 20 years in the US Army then moved on to law enforcement for the following 13 years. So it's only logical that a majority of my time as a youth was spent wondering if Dad was coming home and what kind of things would help facilitate that. And THAT is why the majority of my ideas center around military and police work which happens to involve a lot of killing and suppression. Further, the potential targets I listed are either obvious targets (rioters, rabid hockey or soccer fans) or are those who annoy people through either their extremist views(treehugging hippies) or with their actions (mimes). The last three in my list were more or less a joke that apparently you were too gungho to shoot my idea down to pick up on. The "behave or we will make you behave" comment is more or less a comment on the approach a lot of police officers have (at least in my area), it's like the cliche "we can do this the hard way or the easy way". I also happen to find any supremacist to be the only scum lower than child molestors and I will argue with them for hours and have even come to blows with a few over their narrow-minded ways and insistence that I am wrong for not being as them, so your comment about me being such a person are fighting words in my book.

[hidden truths], thanks for the support, I've given up on pleasing the masses and I've just started emptying my brain of all its vile contents just to see what gems can possibly be sifted out of the sludge in the self-centered effort to please myself. It's kind of like masturbation, it just involves a different head and no lubricant.

[reensure], all too right you are :-P

[miasere], did you even read the entire idea or did you stop after the first three paragraphs? Conventional paintballs are never mentioned. I PLAY paintball for fun, I KNOW they don't hurt, especially when you're hyped up like anyone in a riot situation would be. I suggested the use of "pepperballs" which I'm sure you can google and find hits for, they're made specifically for law enforcement. They are regular paintballs with either liquid or powdered capsaicin that have the same effect as pepperspray once burst on their target. The other alternative I mentioned was solid rubber shot which would remove any worries about barrel rupture(which plague many a paintballer) and would cause a whole helluva lot of pain as [bungston] pointed out right after you. As far as the stungun, I said it would substitute as the weapon's bayonet. If you knew anything about the implementation of a bayonet in combat you would know that the entire rifle is used in a spear like fashion which is used at hand-to-hand range not "tangle mass of humanity" range where an officer would have to worry about shocking himself as well as his adversary. Besides, if I were an officer overwhelmed by a crowd I would take the zap just to disable my attackers.

[bungston], yet again I find you as one of the few who actually seem interested in progressing the concept instead of damning it and I thank you. I agree that police agencies are definately the ones who get the shitty end of the stick when the only answer to violence has to be carefully measured violence that won't outrage a crowd to escalate to further violence in a riot or be blown out of proportion by the media. Paintball guns are an existing technology that has been progressed steadily in the consumer market, that being said you're also right when you say adapting them to suit police work would be cheap. As far as making them noisy, they do make a pop, but they could be made noisier to an extent by using barrels without porting(the tiny holes near the end of most paintball guns), this would increase the intimidation factor. The show I saw that had the pepperballs also featured a "stinkball" as well, which the officer they were talking to could only say "it could gag a maggot from 50 ft."
scott_r_uber, Nov 08 2005
  

       [scott] the explanation you offer for the focus of your ideas makes sense, thanks for providing it.

As to the rest of your reply, the reason I highlighted "behave, or we will make you behave for criticism is not because it isn't an accurate portrayal of the behaviour of some police officers, but because it represents what is in my view the very worst type of police behaviour. Namely, the overtly aggressive, confrontational "do as I say or you will pay" style of law *enforcement*. It may be appropriate in some situations (eg. where your violent sports fans are already kicking off) but when it's employed unconditionally in every situation, it creates immediate tension between officers and the public. Instead of viewing the police as the good guys, this attitude generates resentment in the public, who view them as enforcers, rather than guardians of public safety.

I notice you didn't address this bit: //allowing the officer to really cut loose on a crowd if need be//. Could that be because it's indefensible, or would have spoilt your opportunity to call me "gung ho"? I think you're on shaky ground doing that by the way, whilst in the next paragraph you're talking about fighting with supremacists and then practically challenging me to a fight for branding you one (which I didn't do - I merely stated that your words gave the impression that you might be such an individual). This kind of behaviour does nothing to disabuse me of the idea that you're the kind of imbalanced coot whose only response to disagreement or confrontation is to respond with violence.
DocBrown, Nov 08 2005
  

       [DocBrown] Actually it was oversight, and since you asked for it here you go: You can't tell me that an officer will never find the use, or more importantly the NEED to exploit his access to superior firepower in order to either save his own hide or to restore order. The proposed use for this weapon is to disperse large riotous crowds and as such I would bet money that numerical superiority isn't one of the advantages police have in that situation.

I practically called you out because I was in a terrible mood to begin with and having been labeled something I personally despise made me go off the handle, after having cooled down I do see how I was being a prick. Sorry for going off on you, everyone's human and everyone is entitled to bad days and bad attitudes regardless of political opinions.
scott_r_uber, Nov 10 2005
  

       If the paintballs were full of impact- triggered explosive, that might be more effective than stinkballs.   

       Seriously! The explosions would be impressive: loud flash, bright bang. The power of the explosive (nitroglycerine?) could be adjusted so that the exploding paintballs do about as much damage as a hurled firecracker. The downside: if you drop your gun and it lands on the magazine. That might be a substantial downside, actually.
bungston, Jul 25 2007
  

       Ha! He was man enough to apologize ! He gets a (+) vote.   

       It would be an interesting addition to one's arsenel, but my experience with multipurpose tools is that the tradeoffs that need to be made cause more grief than they're worth.
normzone, Jul 25 2007
  

       What [normzone] said.
pertinax, Jul 29 2007
  
      
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