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Paper Bullets

Awe rioters before disabling and arresting them.
  (+9, -7)
(+9, -7)
  [vote for,
against]

A crowd-control measure, similar to rubber bullets only in that they are non-lethal.

Paper bullets are shotgun shells packed with small, tightly folded squares of paper. When fired from a conventional shotgun, the explosion simultaneously propels the material forward, causes the squares to partially unfold, and ignites them. Rioters caught in the blast will be treated to a whirling display of pyrotechnics while being peppered with charred paper particles. Still hot (and possibly burning) from the blast, these particles would doubtless hurt, possibly a lot.

Leaders of private armies, feel free to add your crest or motto to the projectiles to further reinforce your supremacy.

vigilante, Oct 15 2004

A better idea for riot control http://www.halfbake..._20gun_20checkpoint
[etherman, Oct 15 2004]

Lest we forget http://www.spectacle.org/595/kent.html
Kent State Massacre [etherman, Oct 15 2004]

Protest Warrior http://www.protestw...tion_wolverines.php
So-called "peace protestors" threatening, attacking and destroying the property of those who dare to express opposing opinions. [Guncrazy, Oct 15 2004]

Non-Paper Based Riot Control http://www.halfbake...t_20Control_20Bears
Uses bears instead of paper. [DocBrown, Oct 18 2004]

[link]






       Could you add a couple of ball-bearings so as to create a 'lottery effect'?   

       I'm rioting .. will I get slightly burnt by the police or my brain ripped out by a lethal white-hot ball-bearing? Oh -- the fun -- the anticipation ...
britboy, Oct 15 2004
  

       Maybe a few rubber slugs could be added. That way, the paper would nail rioters at close-range, while the slugs would have a better chance of travelling further and hitting someone else.
vigilante, Oct 15 2004
  

       Sans the ball-bearings of course.
vigilante, Oct 15 2004
  

       //Mix these in with a couple of real bullets and deaths during riots would drop significantly.//   

       Firing live rounds at a riot is not going to reduce deaths. Do a google for 'Bloody Sunday 1972' and you'll see what I mean.
etherman, Oct 15 2004
  

       Oh in the 'national guard murder students who posed absolutely no threat to them' kind of worked. Right.
etherman, Oct 15 2004
  

       I'm with [etherman] on this one...real bullets + people don't mix, even if they are rioting.
vigilante, Oct 15 2004
  

       Paper bullets!
Paper bullets!
Oh how real those bullets seemed to me!

(With no apologies whatsoever to Donny and Marie Osmond)
DrBob, Oct 15 2004
  

       Now real bullets for the Osmonds, thats a different matter.
etherman, Oct 15 2004
  

       Right. Firing live rounds into crowds of anti-war protestors will not save lives.   

       Except maybe in the sense that Jihadists, who already see America as a weak "paper tiger" because of our (relative to them) reluctance to shed blood, might be less encouraged to use terrorism as a means of influencing US politics.   

       Anti-war protestors are to Jihadists today what American Communists were to Stalin back around 1950: Useful idiots.   

       The Jihadists understand that military victory is not possible, but political victory is within reach. America's Achilles heel is its division of ideologies, which is natural to any free democracy.   

       The aim of terrorism, then, is to widen this gap--to pull the Left and Right that together make America what it is, and pry them painfully apart.   

       Anti-war protests, with their flamboyant public displays and boisterous, angry crowds, provide Jihadists with an indicator that their tactics are working. The demonstrations encourage Jihadists to take even more lives--Americans' and others'--not just in acts of terrorism within the allies' borders, but in the Iraqi theater of operations as well.   

       I do not believe that the US, as a whole, is a paper tiger. But I do believe that the anti-war protestors are cowards. And if just a few live rounds were fired into the crowds at the next couple of large protests, there likely would not be a third. And the demonstration of the US Government's resolve, combined with the lack of American boosting of Jihadistani morale, would probably save more lives than would be lost at the "protest dispersals."   

       That said, I do not in any way endorse such a policy. Not because I value the lives of the protestors, but because I believe there is something more valuable than their lives: the freedom of speech.
Guncrazy, Oct 15 2004
  

       It's not cowardly to protest for peace. Especially with bloodthirsty assholes like you around.
etherman, Oct 15 2004
  

       They're only paper bullets,
but they only cost a dime.

[skinflaps] your link is blank for me.
  

       I dunno, paper cuts can really smart.
Cubical_View, Oct 15 2004
  

       yep [2 fries] it's broke and gone.
skinflaps, Oct 15 2004
  

       paper and vinegar. to get in the paper cuts and make them sting.
etherman, Oct 15 2004
  

       [etherman]: I might believe that the current crop of anti-war protesters were protesting for peace if, indeed, they were peaceful.   

       However, their quick resort to foul-mouthed, ad-hominem invective does nothing to bolster their "peaceful" image. Nor does thier propensity towards using intimidation, property destruction and violence.   

       See www.protestwarrior.com for examples of your tempermental and ideological ilk in action (link).
Guncrazy, Oct 15 2004
  

       Put flowers in the guns instead of paper for the hippie protesters.
brodie, Oct 15 2004
  

       How about some sort of Ecstacy delivery system in place of bullets - the protestors fall in love with police and each other and a mass orgy ensues. Seems like a "sensitive" solution to me.
trekbody, Oct 15 2004
  

       The whole ignition thing destoys the elegance of this idea. In BUNGCO's version, the bullet should be paper not crumpled or wadded, but origami folded into a dense, aerodynamic, bullet shape. When they hit, they hurt, but also enlighten: the recipient can unfold the bullet and read thought-provoking phrases from Lao Tzu: eg "The Tao abides in non-action,
Yet nothing is left undone."
  

       The more expensive paper bullets are meant to be fired from rifled shotguns. As they exit the barrel, the rifling action and centrifugal force causes them to unfurl into flowers, snowflakes, and other radially symmetric forms. In addition to being bruised, rioters are awed into submission by the beautiful unfolding forms. Plus each can take home a souvenir of the riot to sit on the mantel.
bungston, Oct 15 2004
  

       Great big croissant for bungston's adaptation.
calum, Oct 15 2004
  

       ow!paper cut - buggar, that hurts...
po, Oct 15 2004
  

       fortune cookie messages fired in rioting chinese restaurants to calm disgruntled diners.
benfrost, Oct 16 2004
  

       //That said, I do not in any way endorse such a policy. Not because I value the lives of the protestors, but because I believe there is something more valuable than their lives: the freedom of speech//   

       well put guncrazy   

       in addition I believe that if you pull out a gun it should be used as a gun... protestors would get used to the fake bullets and then there would be a " little change of policy" in Washington and then the protestors would taunt the cops thinking that the cops had fake bullets when they were real....   

       but, if we must focus on this issue. How about lacing the paper with capsicum. that could be effective... or start shooting people with chopped cow brains and blood - - it would take protestors weeks to figure out that the cops had not shot anyone in the head.
shad, Oct 16 2004
  

       [bungston], you're adaptation is vastly superior to mine, I'm happy to admit. Looking back, the flaming paper projectiles were a bit obvious and uninspiring.
vigilante, Oct 16 2004
  

       Guncrazy, just to clarify: "If we kill a few of the protesters, the rest of them will quietly go away, won't resort to violence, won't react... and will even vote for us next time round."   

       Kill rioters and you'd have an absolute bloodbath.
david_scothern, Oct 16 2004
  

       I really don't care who's rioting, no bullets, ever. If the riot gets ugly, break out the night sticks. Or in this case, the paper bullets....but only when it gets bad.[+]
swimr, Oct 16 2004
  

       I think I saw those beanbags on Jackass. Left one hell of a welt on the poor sucker.
vigilante, Oct 17 2004
  

       //I think it's lovely that you folk managed to turn this into a debate about freedom of speech.//   

       Unabubba I think you missed it on this one...   

       I think that the point here is:   

       it is a bad idea because the idea is purely designed for a purpose that simply infringes on our costitutional rights. This does not nessesaraly mean it is a bad idea in particular
shad, Oct 17 2004
  

       //it is a bad idea//...then...//This does not nessesaraly mean it is a bad idea//. I think you missed it on this one [shad]...make up your mind, which one is it?
vigilante, Oct 17 2004
  

       Hang on [shad], are you saying you have a constitutional right not to have (possibly flaming) origami fired at you?   

       And I'm with the no live bullets fired at rioters crowd.
RobertKidney, Oct 17 2004
  

       Crowd control isn't unconstitutional. Go get a book about constitutional law and read the chapters on the first amendment, the details are interesting. It's not at easy as "If I want to say something, I can say that wherever and whenever I want" - there are different rights to be weighed against each other.   

       That said, I doubt that this would work technically. If they unfold, they'd stop moving pretty quickly. Try throwing a handful of confetti at someone.
jutta, Oct 17 2004
  

       [david_scothern]: Please refresh my memory. I don't recall a "bloodbath" after the Kent State hippies were shot.   

       Nor do I recall reading about a "bloodbath" after the 2001 deaths of three anti-capitalism protestors who were shot in Papua New Guinea.   

       Nor do I recall a "bloodbath" after Carlo Giuliani was shot in the head at the Genoa anti-capitalism riot in 2001. (This is especially surprising, since photos of him were so sympathetic; his angelic ski masked face, encircled by a halo of congealed blood, with eyes gazing beatifically, if somewhat vacuously, heavenward.)   

       Perhaps a bloody and violent revolution is just wishful thinking on your part.   

       [UnaBubba]:I noted America's _relative_ unwillingness to shed blood. If Americans had as little regard for human life as the terrorists who attack us do, we'd simply carpet bomb their cities before sending the infantry in to bayonet all the survivors.
Guncrazy, Oct 17 2004
  

       Actually I think these bullets could go pretty quick, has anyone folded up some paper and shot it with an elastic? If you do it right, you can make someone bleed. Otherwise it just hurts like hell.   

       Oh, and there was no bloodbath because the protestors wern't as ignorant as the people holding the guns
swimr, Oct 17 2004
  

       vigilante, I said ://This does not necessarily mean it is a bad idea in particular//   

       I was using the word particular meaning that the idea is not a bad idea in part,   

       The idea as you presented it is a bad idea...   

       basically, if you take the idea apart, its cool. If you take the idea as a whole it is not cool....   

       RobertKidney, I agree with you. I don't think that I can take any rights from you   

       UnaBubba, I am not confused on this subject- possibly a misunderstanding in translation - oh and if you are trying to insult me - try harder   

       jutta,   

       basically if burning the flag is freedom of speech, beating the inside parts out of someone for doing so is also freedom of speech?
shad, Oct 17 2004
  

       OK, let's move the namecalling and the discussions about Iraq to overbaked, please.
jutta, Oct 18 2004
  

       Good grief, what happened to this thread. [shad], you don't like the idea as a whole - that's fine. As jutta said, move on.
vigilante, Oct 18 2004
  

       Ok, to get back to the topic. I suppose this original idea is just a more gentle version of using flash-bang stun grendes. But these are much more effective in a confined space as I think this idea would be, partly for the reason Jutta points out:   

       //If they unfold, they'd stop moving pretty quickly//   

       Oh, and with regards to a bloodbath instigated by shooting at a right, again I think Bloody Sunday in Derry '73 is a good example. It didn't cause the following 25 years of bloodshed but it lead to mass IRA recruitment and triggered an escalation of the war.
etherman, Oct 18 2004
  

       <brazen self promotion>Enough of this nonsense about paper! Everyone knows the final solution to rioters is bears. (see link)</bsp>
As regards Iraq [Gun crazy]'s annos seem to suggest a simple solution: we need only invade and pacify Jihadistan and all will be well.
DocBrown, Oct 18 2004
  

       Effectively, these are blanks. I would not expect much effect beyond ten feet. You may as well arm our police with super soakers, which may be a good idea, since the rioters seem to be at least as sane as the current leadership here in America.   

       But if the goal is riot control, there are a number of much more effective, and still mainly nonlethal rounds available.   

       Do I care to get squirted you'll ask. No, but a super soaker also makes a decent club in the right hands.
ye_river_xiv, Jul 05 2006
  
      
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