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A politician oversteps his authority or otherwise behaves in an unstatesman-like manner, as determined by the secretary. This official government department sends someone to kill him.
The secretary of this office is an elected official. If the people don't like his choices as to whom he has assassinated,
they vote him out.
Now, just try and pretend there's something wrong with that!
Junta (a board game)
http://en.wikipedia...g/wiki/Junta_(game)
'Minister of Internal Security' is the term you are searching for, I suspect, unfettered. [DrBob, Sep 10 2009]
Bureau of Sabotage
http://en.wikipedia.../Bureau_of_Sabotage
[normzone, Sep 10 2009]
[link]
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Why not just vote out the politician who overstepped his
authority in the first place? [-] |
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[unfettered], I presume your next argument in response to [21 Quest] is to let the mafia citizens hire henchmen to murder the secretary. I think Satan is accompanying you right now, hehehe! Hahahah! No offence to your preference for violence, fiend ;-) |
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Try watching less TV and study political science when you finish your secondary schooling. |
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Murdering politicians is something that seems to be popular in Third World backwaters and the southern states of the US. People there either live in hopeless dictatorships or don't seem to realise that in real democracies you can actually vote bad politicians out of power at the next election. |
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Hey, don't pin this on us, UB! I'm American, and I'm saying this
is crap. Third World dictators execute politicians. In America, we
have vigilantes for that sort of unpleasantness. Gives us a fall
guy, and the leadership saves face. Win-win! Not like this crap... |
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Well I for one am just plain tired of folks from the States being the only ones from either North or South America to claim the moniker 'American'. |
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Henceforth I dub you all United Statetians.
Which will in due time become hyphenated to Unistats, but that is beyond my control so I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. |
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[Censor Bleep] canadians... |
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There's a nice saying here, that goes,"In America they assassinate their unpopular politicians; here we just ignore them until the next election. Then we get square." |
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You're a Canadian, [2fries]. Why in the name of Azazel would you want to call yourself "an American"? That's like a Chinese wanting to be called Vietnamese. |
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Doesn't the name "American" already smell bad enough that your lot wear a prominent maple leaf whenever you travel, in case someone tries to kill you? |
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No, it's like a chinese wanting to be called asian. |
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Isn't this how The Whip operates? |
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Well, Vietnam is south of China and the Chinese regard being called Vietnamese as a grave insult, [zeno]. But I guess you don't know that, huh? |
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Bubba, maybe he has a case of "the grass is greener?" I
know I always think it's better elsewhere. (oh yeah,
that's right, it is ;-) |
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It's not that I particularly want to be called American.
I just want the option back. |
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Move to Tierra del Fuego? |
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People hate the USA for the same reason small businesses and
hippies hate bigger, more successful businesses like Wal-Mart
and Microsoft. Jealousy and lack of a competitive edge. If we
were so bad, we wouldn't be flooded with immigrants and
refugees like we are. During this so-called economic downturn,
during which I've absolutely thrived, the stem of migrant workers
has finally slowed to the point where we've got some fucking
elbow room. Lately, it feels like going to the Carnival on a
weekday, when there are no lines and free rides. My point, of
course, is quit talking shit about my home. This is getting to be
an awfully sore spot with me. Nobody's asking you to come here.
And Bliss, don't be such a sellout. You're in, what, Connecticut?
The grass is gorgeous in New England, and it's beautiful here in
the Northwest, too. |
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Why would I want to come there? It's full of people like you, as far as I can tell. |
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You're just pissed that the poor bastards to your south are feeling the need to get away from the arsehole dictatorships the US Govt helped bring to power in the first place. |
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OK, just as long as we're all enjoying our jovially minded, cheerful international banter... |
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[2fries], instead of United Stateians, could we please be called Monistats? Now if only I could find a group of seven... |
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This idea is possibly pre-heated by Frank Herbert (link). |
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there's 8 of 7 if you must! |
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//And Bliss, don't be such a sellout. You're in, what,
Connecticut? The grass is gorgeous in New England,
and it's beautiful here in the Northwest, too.// |
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Perhaps say you...but it's even better in Ireland! |
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If you like the sound of car bombs exploding in the near distance, and drunks stumbling out of pubs on every corner. |
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Collective consciousness of a state, country, continent, etc. can not be boiled down to one specific ideal such as comparative dissonance (jealousy). Any exposure to another country's patriotism will tell you: they are glad they're not United Statitians. Of course, they are jealous, too. |
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""Madness is the exception in individuals but the rule in groups." -- Nietzsche |
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My point is, 21, when you make the interplay of universals such as "America" and "Jealousy" so deliciously simple, it spurs annoyance in the wise. Please complicate things in the future, thanks. |
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And my point, again, is that it's a hell of a contradiction that the USA is simultaneously one of the most universally ridiculed and scorned nations, and the most universally desirable destination. Everyone loves to badmouth the big, bad USA, and call us a nation of bullies and hypocrites. But when it comes right down to it, this is where it's at. This is where people go when they finally realize their own country's not such a good place, after all. This is where people go when their own country turns on them. This is where people go when they want to enjoy their lives. If we were so bad, that wouldn't be the case. People would stay the hell away from the USA. People would not run to us when they want help, or freedom. The problem with a lot of people is that they think 'freedom' means that as soon as they get here they'll be rolling in money and the best jobs will be waiting for them, which is not the case. Yet even despite the supposed racial discrimination and poverty faced by the immigrants who come here, they stay. I wonder why that is. Perhaps because they realize that, even though we're not perfect, and even though we have troubles of our own, it's still safer and they have more freedom than in the home they left behind. Sure, it may be somewhat of a disappointment, but it's still better than they're likely to get anywhere else. The numbers have it. Get used to it, swallow your pride, and quit badmouthing us, because we clearly have a lot going for us. |
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//because we clearly have a lot going for us// |
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Like in many cultures its a case of 'going going gone !'. The US has had a good thing going with the country being based on freedom and quite possibly an inertially good thing with the puritanical attitudes, the guns and lack of health-care are such a minus point that any civilised person wouldn't move there. Point being that it has more potential than most countries, but I wouldn't live there just yet. |
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It's sickening to hear that a non-Canadian North American believes the love affair he has with his country is objectively resolute. I know plenty of Americans that have left America. Because of its homogeneity, its cultural vacuity, its health problems, its self-serving, self-destructive powerlessness that is hidden thinly behind dollar cheeseburgers and behemoth cars, the slave-driving drug cartels seeping in at every corner, transparent and unstoppable corruption, and, most importantly, egghead deadbeat fast-talking slow-thinking numbskulls. Like some people I know. |
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//a non-Canadian North American //
A Mexican? |
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Considering that is where the majority of drugs comes from, and since drug use is so damn prevalent, sure. |
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//egghead deadbeat fast-talking slow-thinking numbskulls// |
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With a little more work and put to a tune that could promote America as a brand. Can you work in "bitch-slappin', monkey wrenching" ? |
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// Can you work in "bitch-slappin', monkey wrenching"//
...cool fizzin' Pepsi! (to mis-quote an ad campaign from the 70's) |
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I dunno... Bitch slappin' is more indicative of Afghanistan, and more monkeys get wrenched out in Indonesia than America, probably. |
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There are a lot worse places to live than the USA. Contrary to local opinion there, there are also a lot better places to live. |
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Comparison without knowledge of the alternatives is dangerous: |
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For instance, I've had a gun pointed at me, at close range, three times in my life. That I had two of those incidents occur in Australia and one in the US would indicate that Australia is twice as violent as the US. |
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However, if we then go on to find that the two in Australia were as a result of me confronting very bad people in the course of my work as a repossession agent and the one in the US because I walked up an open, unmarked set of stairs in the airport in Hawai'i, it takes on a different complexion. |
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It seems I was not meant to walk up the stairs, because a large, black man with a hand cannon, very shiny boots and lots of shiny badges told me I was in a closed area. When I pointed out there were no signs to inform me I was not allowed to go there he pulled out his hand cannon and put the muzzle of it very close to my face. |
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You see, I got rather a poor welcome to the land of the free. And, before you assume, that was in 1992, well before the Moslems decided they'd had a gutful of US aggression and brought the war to the US. |
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As for the thousands of people who flock to the US each year... they're only a tiny fraction of the people who are displaced internationally in any given year. |
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As to their motivation for coming to the US, rather than stay in their mother country; perhaps a simple analogy could be used: |
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Many women who are beaten by their husbands / partners / pimps end up in women's shelters. By this analogy it would be reasonable to assume that women's shelters are a preferable destination to another relationship. Maybe the US is regarded as a "women's shelter" by many people who are looking to escape an even greater tyrrany? |
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Well... Sounds like we'd better make that 4 times... |
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Nine pending Windows updates is hardly a gun to your head. You might lose a weeks work on your home defence weapon management system, but ... ah, I see. |
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[Bubba], I did know that but your comparison was wrong. |
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American meets an asian looking person on holliday and says: "what kind of knees are you?", "what do you mean'?", "well are you chinese or vietnamese or japanese?", "Oh, I see, I am taiwanese, but what kind of key are you?", "What do you mean?", "Well, are you a donkey or a Monkey or a Yankee?" |
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I wish you were a USian [Unabubba] |
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[21Quest] people do not hate the USA all that much to begin with, but when they are that pitifull to hate an entire people they hate it because the USA has fucked over so many people in the course of history. Not because you have more and bigger of everything because you just don't. It's a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there. |
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Ps. If you forgot all about the idea and just anno for the heck of it and to vent your personal frustrations, does that mean you are badly of topic? Sorry. |
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Sorry, waiting on a very urgent email for work and Outlook stopped working. ^&%&ing US-made software! ;) |
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Ya know, Bubba and I had this exact same
conversation when I had grown weary and
sickened by George W. I wanted to leave this
country forever and pretend like I had never been
born here. I was completely done. |
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If I had the money and a job waiting, I would have
left here long ago. I'm starting to get that nervous
feeling again. As are many. |
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Oh and Quest, I live in Hartford, remember? I hear
the sound of guns going off, and see drunks falling
out of bars on every corner here. Just no cute
dialect, or pretty green glens, and neato castles.
So there. |
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Why would you like me to be a USian, [zeno]? So you can hate me even more than you do at the moment? |
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Hey, UB's the one who turned this into a patriotic arguement.
There was no call to even turn it this way. I'm done with this
discussion. |
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// As for the thousands of people who flock to the US each year//sp. "day" |
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Whatever... I'd like to have my own country, on a remote isand in the middle of nowhere and enough WMDs to keep every other fucker on the planet at a respectable distance. Trouble with that is that I'd then be declared a "rogue state" and overthrown by some deadshit, belligerent government that can't tolerate other places than themselves having WMDs. |
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UB, that's why you don't tell anyone about the WMDs! If anybody
asks what you're doing out there, tell 'em it's a Leper colony.
That should keep the UN weapons inspectors away. |
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Then I'd have the freakin' WHO crawlin' all over the place and tugging at my limbs to see it they'll fall off. I dunno, I can't win. |
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At best, I think all nations are created paranoid and racist; it's just that some nations are more paranoid and racist than others. |
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I'm raising a glass your way right now...and by the way, if you
ever do succeed in founding your own maximum security, WMD-
laden island, let me know, will ya? I'll bring the liquor. |
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It's always puzzled me. Well, not always, but since
adulthood. Why are people invariably so emotionally
attached to the bit of ground that they were born on?
The one they call 'home'? That's odd. And most are so
proud of that accident as though they played some
governing aspect in being born there. This nationalism
and patriotism and loyalty to one's own country is very
strange, when you think about it. |
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I mean, it varies on a scale of course. Britain at it's
empire zenith distant generations ago must've
thought that it's so perfectly natural to manipulate
world trade to the end of accessorising most of the
colonies that the contemporary public never
questioned the asymmetry, and accepted the privilege, despite that such empire building was the
domain of only a handful of powerful families assisted
by crown instrumentation. The average person played
no part in this, and had no influence over it one way
or the other. However, they have inherited a
generational attitude that, well, we must be the best
because, well, you know, we're British of course, and
that's that, so we must be. What an utterly shallow
structure of causality - almost superstitious or
religious, or tabloid in its unsciencyness. |
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At the other end of the scale, you have Australians,
who know it's a nice country and a nice economy and
all that but nevertheless have a nagging inferiority
complex that they're probably not doing "it" to the
higher standards that the rest of the western world is,
which ironically drives them to unwittingly exceed the
social development of the rest of the west in so many
ways. And the also lack any wholly unrealistic
misbalance in defence of their own nation state. I
mean, it's not absent, it's just not improportionate.
They know its good points and its bad points and
they're pretty accurate in the assessment - more so if
they've lived elsewhere, which many are driven to do
out of the "big fish in a small pond" ethos, where
you've achieved well, but you then feel there's other
frontiers to test and do well in, too. I suppose
opposite of arrogance about their own country, which
is quite unusual in world psyches today. The most
pompousness you'd get out of them is probably "well,
at least we're not from New Zealand, mate". |
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Much national patriotism is inculcated in the name of political, economic or military expediency and, once inculcated, it takes a long time to dissipate. But cultural or philosophical differences exist between countries (and ares within countries, still) and, if the majority or latent gestalt tendencies of your country are in sync with your own assessment of what constitutes virtue, then it is natural to be proud of one's country. Not saying such pride is virtuous, though. In fact I would say that such pride is, of itself, not virtuous but, when coupled with other factors, such as the importance of the bunting and commemorative thimble industries, it can be. |
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I'm proud of "my own" country, but I'm also (perhaps
more) proud of
many other countries that aren't. Even ones I've never
been to. |
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//Why would you like me to be a USian, [zeno]? So you can hate me even more than you do at the moment?\\ That's right I would love to hate you. Hate leads to anger, anger leads to venting frustrations, venting frustrations leads to relief, relief is inner calm. You see? Racism, fascism, nationalism, it does work! |
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I was just thinking about some sort of global reset
mechanism whereby each person born gets some
opportunity to choose their religion and their
nationality and then they can wave those little flags
as much as they want. But that's actually the situation
at the present, but it's not you that tends to make
that choice, it's others - your family or town or near-
group will do it for you. Then I started thinking about
how sports team support is also like that - you really
do have a choice but it's frequently assumed to be
supplied by the structure you're within. Similarly,
political support. The self is rarely as dominant as the
community. Similarly with sexuality - if you've grown
up in a part of a country where everyone has to be
butch and macho and manly (especially the men) then
you'd feel threatened at the admission that
homosexuality exists as it's not part of your world
model. But all of those values were really installed
not by yourself, but by the community around you.
Similarly with other values such as a work ethic, sense
of humour, attitudes to the value and use of money. |
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Then I started thinking about ant colonies.
Interestingly, I'd say that we ourselves each as a 'self',
doesn't have much of a say after all - the community
does it for us, as I mentioned. But what if we view it
from over there? The community 'claims' us and
installs values in us. We don't have nationalism, the
nation consumes us instead. It appears that we
exhibit nationalism, sometimes, but instead, it is the
nation state that intersects us and collects us and
farms us and cleverly makes us think that we're doing
all the thinking. |
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There's certainly a cringe (though it's a lot less prevalent than once it was) as to whether Australians measure up to other countries. We tend to have a certain level to which we'll go before we just say, "Fuck that for a joke, being that patriotic / anal / perfect is too much like hard work... I'm knocking off for the day and going home to catch up with the wife and kids and to watch a bit of TV or go and play a game of indoor cricket." |
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A hundred years ago we were probably more English in attitude than the English, which is true of a lot of former colonies (Look at the British Raj, or the Dutch East Indies, or French Canada). |
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We're one of the best-travelled nations on Earth (it's a bloody long way from here to anywhere else, so we make it count when we do go). This means a lot of us have had a chance to look at other countries. We tend to do so with the same critical eye we apply to our own efforts and standards, finding some satisfaction in identifying what we can take home to do better and what we'd change elsewhere to improve other places. |
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We don't try to export our political system, most likely because we believe all politicians to be venal, self-absorbed wankers. |
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We don't mind you doing well for yourself but if you are doing obscenely well or are perceived to have done so without giving everyone else a fair opportunity then we'll chop you down to size at the first chance we get. "Give everyone a fair go'' could almost be our national motto. |
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For the most part we're happy to live in a place that is one of the world's most stable democracies; has never endured a civil war; has decent, universal healthcare; a tolerant attitude to homosexuality and ethnicity (hasn't always been the case); safe drinking water in every town and city; a climate that allows outdoor activity year 'round; no belligerent neighbours; very low crime rates and a very high standard and quality of life and living. |
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We do, however, take a dim view of people who come here and try to bring their past / wars / racial issues with them. That includes whining about how much you'd rather be back where you came from; excessive complaining about anything and everything; Balkan civil conflicts and radical Christianity or Islam or Calathumpianism or any other overt God-Squadism... all of which are likely to get you a smack in the mouth if you start on about them and forget to shut up. |
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That about sums the place up, I think. |
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so a community can think! interesting. |
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not just a *mean* value then? |
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“You're a Canadian, [2fries]. Why in the name of Azazel would you want to call yourself "an American"? That's like a Chinese wanting to be called Vietnamese.” |
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“Well, Vietnam is south of China and the Chinese regard being called Vietnamese as a grave insult, [zeno]. But I guess you don't know that, huh?” |
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“It seems I was not meant to walk up the stairs, because a large, black man with a hand cannon, very shiny boots and lots of shiny badges....” |
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“Why would you like me to be a USian, [zeno]? So you can hate me even more than you do at the moment?” |
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“I'd like to have my own country, on a remote isand in the middle of nowhere and enough WMDs to keep every other fucker on the planet at a respectable distance.” |
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“At best, I think all nations are created paranoid and racist; it's just that some nations are more paranoid and racist than others.” |
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“Maybe the US is regarded as a "women's shelter" by many people who are looking to escape an even greater tyrrany?” |
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Unabubba, we Americans are proud to harbor the outcasts of other nations and those who flee tyranny. Cleanse your hear to bigotry, my friend. |
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Cool, I've been Pilgerised! |
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//we Americans are proud to harbor the outcasts of other nations and those who flee tyranny.// |
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Of course! That explains the 23 different agencies of Homeland Insecurity and the friggin' great fence on your southern border. |
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And why have you not invited me to come live with
you again Bubba? I'd make a great nanny! (jokes, jokes
everywhere...) |
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I'll be hiring domestic staff on the third day, [blissy]. Your resumé is already on file. |
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Remember, I have six days in which to build Bubbadise, before I rest. |
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I'm an Australian who used to live in the U.S and something that surprised me was the general attitude I got from a lot of Yanks. We'd be chatting along and I'd mention I was going back to Australia in a few months and they were just shocked. They could not comprehend that I would want to go home, considering I had finally made it to what they must believe is a utopia.
I believe there is a system of wholesale brainwashing in America that begins with birth and ends in death. It starts in school (I also went to school there) with the pledge allegiance to the flag bullshit (I almost got expelled for refusing to pledge allegiance to their flag) continues with the version of history taught and is finally cemented by the corporate media and Hollywood.
Considering Americans rarely travel and if they do, rarely to anywhere that different, they have no way to gauge whether what they have been told is in fact true.
It is the perfect system for oppressing the masses. They take pride in their prison and will die for the right to suffer there. |
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Really!? Americans rarely travel!? Have you not seen the throngs
of annoying American tourists in just about every country? |
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Not really, if anything they're a reasonable minority
among tourists. It's just that they can be more visible,
which gives the impression they're everywhere. |
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//Have you not seen the throngs of annoying American tourists in just about every country?// |
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Not really. That would likely be because they're all wearing Universal Camouflage Pattern combat uniforms and carrying lots of things beginning with M... M16s, MREs, McDonald's... |
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// I'd mention I was going back to Australia in a few months and they were just shocked//
That's probably because they thought you couldn't possibly go back to the place Hitler was born. |
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Hah! I used to subscribe to a US magazine, Omni. It would sometimes arrive 6 weeks after publication, by sea mail. Other times it would be 8 months, with a redirection stamp from the Vienna "Lost Post" service. |
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I nominate the Title to be rightly accused. Thus a + |
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Bubba, that's the first science mag I ever read... was about 11. Not understanding shit, I rejected science and skateboarded and played music until my first alien contact. Then all was clear. |
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-AbsintheWithoutLeave-
I hold you responsible for the coffee now coating my laptop screen! It wouldn't be so funny if it wasn't so possible!! |
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As I understood it, those of us in the united states elect our officials, and our officials nominate a Secretary of Murder to assasinate foreign officials which we do not approve of. Then we vote out elected officials that make bad decisions about this. |
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Isn't that what happens now, except they call it the CIA? |
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