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5'[bacteria][variable divider][virus]5' One genome codes two organisms

basically the organism makes restriction enzymes that cause a 5'---------3' to be a 5'-[restriction enzyme site]-3' genome that produces two different 5'---3' (ligate) 5'---3' genomes; wikipedia notes that the flu codes a restriction enzyme thus that could go with a customized bacterial restriction enzyme site to produce a bacteria makes flu virus unless the virus made restriction enzyme is present at sufficient quantities to block (remove) the prefer to make virus rather than bacteria program
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  [vote for,

One genome codes two different organisms

visualize two gene sequences that code different organisms back to back kind of like a thing of Nerds(tm)One of the gene sequences could code to make a virus like zerpes where zerpes is a recurring beneficial longevity producing herpes The other could code the flu to make the back to back genomes much more transmissable Achoo

transcription starts at the 5' end then moves towards the 3' If we put a special area between the two different organisms genomes that transcribes all, part, or a different part then either a double genome bacteria, a single genome virus, or a single genome bacteria is the result

there are different ways to create the special area that provides different genomes to transcribe

Topoisomerase version: 3'zerpes[Origin][novel topoisomerase mesh area with flanking origin start codons][Origin]yeast3'

fragile DNA version: fragile dna with frequent gradual autocleave between 5'zerpes[][fragile dna][]flu5' creates a distribution of the two types of organisms

Restriction enzyme version: Restriction enzyme generates fresh starting origins at places on the duogenome Over 3000 restriction enzymes have been studied in detail, and more than 600 of these are available commercially[9] and are routinely used for DNA modification and manipulation in laboratories wikipedia notes that the flu codes a restriction enzyme thus that could go with a customized bacterial site to produce a bacteria makesw virus unless the virus made restriction enzyme is present at sufficient quantities to block (remove) the prefer to make virus rather than bacteria program

With restriction enzymes the way to code two different functional organisms from one genome basically the organism makes restriction enzymes that cause a 5'---->3' to be a 5'-[restriction enzyme site]-3' genome that produces two different 5'-->3' (ligate) 5'-->3' genomes; wikipedia notes that the flu codes a restriction enzyme thus that could go with a customized bacterial restriction enzyme site to produce a bacteria makes flu virus unless the virus made restriction enzyme is present at sufficient quantities to block (remove) the prefer to make virus rather than bacteria program

kind of like Bacterial duogenome is 5' [full bacterial genome][restriction site] [virus genome that codes restriction enzyme] [restriction site] ][restriction site][virus genome that codes restriction enzyme][restriction site] ][restriction site]

when the bacteria replicates if theres no virus (absence of restriction enzyme) the bacteria codes bacteria plus some virus, if there is a medium amount of virus bacteria plus much more viruses are going to be made, if theres a huge amount of virus only the bacteria will be made as the stochastically rare first restriction enzyme site gets activated

I'm making a way to combine a longevity peptide like AEDG with a recurring virus like herpes duogenome with a flu to create an organism that makes people live longer which spreads rapidly

It could also be Yeast or bacterial genome that codes the beneficial recurring zerpes longevity virus

What: genome like nerds thing codes two organisms at one time

benefit: rapidly speading longevity virus; hints, but only hints of a HIV treatment where protease nhibitors are autoproduced at different body regions (compartments) different amounts, happylong

Way: restriction enzymes are massively researched as well as published

beanangel, Oct 09 2008

Nerds(tm) http://www.candy.org/nerdsvariety.jpg
[beanangel, Oct 09 2008]

restriction enzymes http://en.wikipedia.../Restriction_enzyme
[beanangel, Oct 09 2008]

AEDG peptide gives longevity http://www.ncbi.nlm...nel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
[beanangel, Oct 09 2008]

Multi-input 'Plug-and-play' Synthetic RNA Device http://www.scienced...10/081017131010.htm
Programmable RNA that can express more than one sequence [reensure, Oct 21 2008]

nudibranch eats algae absorbs photosynthetic genome does photosynthesis http://www.newscien...s&nsref=online-news
Young E. chlorotica fed with algae for two weeks, could survive for the rest of their year-long lives without eating, Rumpho found in earlier work. In another surprising development, the researchers found the algal gene in E. chlorotica's sex cells, meaning the ability to maintain functional chloroplasts could be passed to the next generation. [beanangel, Feb 24 2009]


       KIDS! Never trust an explanation that starts out with the word "basically".
gnomethang, Oct 09 2008

       KIDS! Never Trust Wikipedia!
gnomethang, Oct 09 2008

       Oh dear god. Where does one begin?   

       Beany baby, this isn't even wrong. It just doesn't make any sense.   

       I'm delighted that you've stumbled upon words like "genome", "transcription" and "restriction enzyme". They're big words and very empowering to be able to spell.   

       But. There are so many things wrong with this that it truly doesn't make sense. You are aware, aren't you (please say yes) that the genome of even the simplest virus encodes multiple transcripts? And that many bacteria carry lysogenic (cryptic) viruses in their genomes? And that....oh, where oh where do I start?   

       Sorry, Beany. Eating six very long words and then vomiting them up again doesn't really count.
MaxwellBuchanan, Oct 09 2008

       KIDS! Please don't be tempted to copy and paste esoteric medical treatise material translated from Romanian into a website for poorly thought out inventions.
gnomethang, Oct 09 2008

       //transcription starts at the 5' end then moves towards the 3' //
OK - So I start in the midddle of the pool and then walk towards the shallow end?.....
gnomethang, Oct 09 2008

       Nerds boxes do not reproduce, and that is the only reason I'm boning this.
daseva, Oct 09 2008

       Sometimes I see an idea thats so completely out there that I have to bun it. He's not thinking out of the box, he's thinking out of the country that holds the city that holds the building that holds the bag that holds the box. This idea is a irregular semidodechedric half-pyrmidal cube in a round hole. Fantastic!
Voice, Oct 10 2008

       The most successful viral DNA is completely included in the nucleus and is replicated with every division. Hints of ancient pandemics are present in many mammalian genomes. If you want to spread viral DNA this is an exceptionally poor vector because the usual mechanism of viral dispersement is the death of the host cell not at all symbiotic. The need to include a mechanism for the virus to "cut in", so to speak, is hardly a problem as any virus worth it's salt has no problem finding its way into its replication site. SOOOO hapylong, i guess. Foshizzle.
WcW, Oct 10 2008

       Also, even with the shitstorm of sci-fi snowjobbin, this idea is complete nonsense.
WcW, Oct 10 2008

       I like the idea of One genome codes two organisms   

       but I wrote the idea
beanangel, Oct 10 2008

//What: genome like nerds thing codes two organisms at one time//

       Like with butterflies and caterpillars?
ldischler, Oct 10 2008

       I think there's another way of doing this. The connection between tRNA and its amino acid is contingent. With enough loopy brainmelting activity, you could maybe build another proteome which makes up an entire living organism which differs, so each codon represents two amino acids. You would also have to construct a ribosome and a set of tRNA molecules from nothing.
nineteenthly, Oct 10 2008

       Why not go further? With 6 available reading frames, maybe you can get one genome to code for 6 different organisms!   

       [-] for being word salad.
Wrongfellow, Oct 10 2008

       [nineteenth] the guys in the lab next door to mine are doing this (sort of) - creating E. coli with two parallel, non- interefering transcription/translation systems for producing novel proteins. However, it would be a nightmare to create two complete parallel proteomes this way: it would be like trying to write a book such that a given set of letter substitutions, applied throughout, would give you a different but equally readable book.   

       [wrongfellow] many viruses do this (and there are some instances in bacteria) - overlapping and inverted reading frames coding alternate products. I don't think any virus carries it to the ultimate extreme of six fully- overlapping valid transcripts, but certainly partial instances exist.
MaxwellBuchanan, Oct 10 2008

       //I like the idea of One genome codes two organisms   

       well this exists, sort of, in the form of a lambda phage in an E. coli, except that the phage not "really" an organism, and it kills it's host whenever it decides to leave the genome.   

       Then there are retroviruses, which were mentioned in this thread, that don't (necessarily) kill the host cell when they bud off, HIV being the most publicized example.   

       But a living organism that contains the DNA for another, self-sufficient organism, would be a challenge. Mycoplasma has a small (the smallest?) genome of any bacterium at 0.5MB, and it is still a parasite, incapable of synthesizing many key nutrients.   

       The simplest way I can see is as follows:   

       Chromosome I and Chromosome II could both encode for enough genes to support an organisms growth on minimal medium, with one requirement. Every promoter of every operon on Chromosome I requires a transcriptional activator protein I, which is only active when enzymatic activator I (a synthetic compound of your choice) is present in the medium. Ditto for chromosome II. By switching the compound in the medium, you can induce the expression of either genome.   

       You could then splice these molecules together somehow, so that these two genomes become one.   

       A more efficient way to accomplish the same task would be to keep common genes on a "central" chromosome, and then replace chromosome I and chromosome II with plasmid I and plasmid II, with their respective genes under plasmid specific promoters.   

       Finally, instead of using plasmid or chromosome specific promoters, you might be able to inactive genome I/genomeII by manipulating heterochromatin regulation. But I don't know if that can work in bacteria, since they have HU proteins and not histones, which perform some related task I don't know much about.   

       Well I don't know why you would want to do this.
Cuit_au_Four, Oct 11 2008

       [MaxwellBuchanan], exactly, hence the brain-melting bit. Interesting they should be trying it though. Maybe something could be done with a different set of amino acids. I wonder if thyroxine or GABA peptides would be useful as some kind of slow-release mechanism.
One thing that presumably would be possible is a simple organism with opposite chirality.
nineteenthly, Oct 11 2008

       //Maybe something could be done with a different set of amino acids.// Yes, that's the main aim (sorry, should have explained). That's the main reason for wanting a parallel system, so that you can expand the repertoire of useable amino acids and create proteins with novel chemical functionalities.   

       Oooooh - kudos for raising chirality. In practical terms it would be a nightmare, but intriguing springboard for thought.
MaxwellBuchanan, Oct 11 2008

       Cuit_au_Four: much appreciated   

       when I was dumpster diving I saw a whole dumpster full of bread, I tossed some to the grassy area that was near the dumpster thinking the little critters would like the food; I wondered about the disease ethics of giving all the rats all the garbage though Thus a novel amino acid organism is the way to go, they could be adorable plus brainwave certified as super happy mammalforms yet be different enough such that they shared zero diseases with other organisms   

       Kind of like techno PETA feeds all the dumpster trash to the tribble critters   

       If the Happy tribbles absorbed Neutrinos rather than eating food that would be niftier
beanangel, Oct 13 2008

       The baculovirus has early genes and late genes. In early infection, it produces viruses suited for infection of other cells within the same host (caterpillar). In late infection, it produces totally different looking viruses designed to persist in the environment and infect new hosts.   

       But it does it, like other living things, through differential expression of transcription factors.   

       There is no way you can make a virus that will replicate in bacteria but also infect human cells. There is also no way to make a bacteria in a virally infected eukaryotic cell. Bacteria only come from other bacteria, sorry.   

       There are some fascinating methods used by small viruses to control expression without lugging around transcription factor sequences. Some actually have linear genomes that then wrap around and fuse, creating differential expression. Crazy stuff that you, or even I, would never think of in a million years. I think we are definitely still at the point of trying to learn cool tricks from viruses rather than making up our own.   

       Probably even when we do reach that point, though, it will be essential to understand how viruses and cells work. I recommend a source other than wikipedia.   

       Anyway, I have to go read about vagina cancer now. (I got into med school, hence the bakery inactivity :))
GutPunchLullabies, Oct 14 2008

       If I may, the idea to clone two organisms from a single genome isn't really an idea but an observation, since what we know of the origin of species suggests that nature readily performs this task. Further transcription and elaboration of a basic genome relies wholly on the conformation of protein folding and an organism's environmental mandate for protein dynamics, packaging, transport, tessellation, and thereon to organization via syncytial grouping, animal/vegetal poling, stemming, and so on. Many vectors influence the expression of genes that regulate transcription and recombination.   

       I can't continence stepping over boundaries between chemistry, molecular biology, and genetic engineering at the level you propose, [beanangel]. As I read your suggestion, I sum it up as : "Take the best of adaptations from disparate organisms and combine them into the genome of a transmissible probe that can benefit humans by viral insertion into our genome, maybe curing diseases some of us have." Uh. no.
reensure, Oct 16 2008


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