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800 cc V12 at 20.000 rpm.

A regular Otto-cycle miniaturized V12, operating at elevated RPM.
  (+1, -4)
(+1, -4)
  [vote for,

A V12 for All !,

Applying sports Go-Kart engine technology as a reference, and Formula One as a relation, I propose small V12 engines, with their inherent high rev's, and smooth vibration-free running, to the masses !.

Engines will be fitted to consumer sportscars, spreading the joy of fluid and powerful accelleration, and musical exhaust's sounds, previously reserved to upper-class, big spenders, or run-down, used cars, amateur mechanics/enthusiasts.

A 125 cc Go-Kart engine is standard around 34-38 HP, hence 230 HP is to be expected from such a 800 cc V12.

'Fits directly into a Alfa Giulietta Quattrofoglio Verde (QV), and saves 45-60 kilo's of where it's needed/not needed the most, at the heavy, frontwheel drive chassis's nose.

A V12 Alfa Romeo coming right up !.


sirau, Jun 03 2011

http://www.artus-motor.com/ [pocmloc, Jun 03 2011]

500cc V8 from 1955 http://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Moto_Guzzi_V8
Very much baked [Twizz, Jun 03 2011]

Scerri stuff! http://www.youtube....watch?v=aSDnMUeimuM
[AbsintheWithoutLeave, Jun 03 2011]

V12 http://www.youtube....M&NR=1&feature=fvwp
[AbsintheWithoutLeave, Jun 03 2011]

To-Scale (1:6) Chevrolet Classic V8 327 cu.in. model/display engine. http://youtu.be/jg0k7zDsB8w
A miniaturiazation of a production classic. [sirau, Jun 03 2011]

Another German Mini-V12 'art classic' project, 'ARTHUS',. http://youtu.be/8DzV-1hgZwM
a single piece development story. [sirau, Jun 03 2011]

Alfa V10 (8.400 cc) TZ3 by Zagato & Viper (Chrysler) Org's. http://news.drive.c...20110502-1e3sy.html
Multiple cylinders, for a 'Highest Exclusivity' - 9 unique pieces - collector series product. [sirau, Jun 04 2011]

On building things light, using higher RPM,. http://www.allpar.com/model/patriot.html
A US, as early as 1993, mainly electric, racecar power project. [sirau, Jun 04 2011]

Hyabusa based V8 http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562069.htm
I would love to have this in my MX5... [Ling, Jun 05 2011]

Small 3-cylinder 4-stroke up-to-dated Ford Motor Comp. engine. http://www.gizmag.c...der-ecoboost/18814/
gixmag. 2011. [sirau, Jun 06 2011]

Honda's Motor Cycle very, very small cc sports engines in history. http://www.gizmag.c...3-grand-prix/18811/
gixmag. 2011. [sirau, Jun 06 2011]


       Lots of parts lots of precision machining ... but a nice idea.   

       Very tiny V8 and V12 engines have been built by model makers. [Widely known to exist].   

       Taking a 125cc nominal engine, each pot is 10cc. Not a lot of room in the head for the valves and spark plug ...
8th of 7, Jun 03 2011

       What is the idea here?   

       Small multi cylinder engines have been built since the manufacturing techniques became available (see Moto Guzzi 500cc V8 link).   

       Why bother? I know of an inline four in development which will make 600 PS from 1600cc.   

       MFD - no idea.
Twizz, Jun 03 2011

       [marked-for-deletion] baked, now pass me my 1 cyl 2-stroke 30hp diesel/CNG thanks.
FlyingToaster, Jun 03 2011

       There are the points missed from the specifics of the describtion of the idea :   

       !. Technically : The idea would be to ELEVATE available to consumers' engines RPM, to say 20.000 rev's per minute.   

       This gives several benefits, as well as challenges :   

       The gearbox/transaxles will have to have deeper ratios, about 3-4 times deeper (!!!), 20.000 rpm relative to the usual 5.-6.000 rpm   

       And, depending on actual conditions, will have to have a larger spread of ratios, possibly,   

       As mentioned, important weight issue, it will be lighter by a good margin, than a slower rotating 4- cylinder, 45-60 kilo's, minimum 5 % out of a regular Hot-Hatch/GTi/QV,. This is a rare occation, in cars that just keep getting heavier and heavier,.   

       Elevated RPM, say 20.000 rev's, means that a colossal rotational inertia can be built up, before a slip of the clutch, as to gain an immense pulse/impact of power and thrust, directly off the line, in an accelleration contest   

       (This point inspired by a real story of a Finnish FIAT 127 1.1 or 1.3 liter, tuned and ballanced to spin up to 10.000 rev's,, - told to be leap-frogging American V8 muscle cars, in jaunts in the streets of Helsinki.)   

       And Design wise / from a Commercial perspective :   

       A near-Premium brand could 'jump' right into the 'V12 League', the club for the highest delight, the perfection of vibrations, and that 'V12' badge on the flank, and on the rear.   

       For enthusiasts, and in society, as a move towards further equality, a commercialized V12 say Alfa Giulietta or VW GOLF/Jetta, even POLO (!), would make available an accessable dream technology to own, and store for admiration in the garage,within the realm of a normal/medium wage/salary package,   

       And, in racing, and hot-rodding, a commercialized to consumer brands small high-rpm V12 engine series, would reduce costs of basic engine components, and stir up the pot of engine design, for Week-End racers, ie. Lotus Super Seven's / '750' type budget racing.   

       (A technical note : Horsepower is a multiplication product of Torque x times RPM. As Torque, basically determines the component strength required, and therefore component weight, the faster you spin (and supply sufficiently an assembly with air-fuel flow) an engine, the higher the Power/Horsepower (Energy-Work Flow). Consequently, a higher spinning motor design, put to proper use, will be lighter than a slower rotating one.).
sirau, Jun 03 2011

       - tech : The [link] Hyabusa V8, applied also in Ariel Atom car's, commercially, is a good piece of kit, it seems.   

       The stroke, 63 or 67 mm's, 2,63 inches, is the determining factor as to max. rev's, since it has traditionally been seen to be the maximum relative speed between piston's and cylinder wall, that would form the design-criteria, of the oil-film beeing there, or ruptured,.   

       A 'Pavesi' racing go-kart motors stroke is 54 mm, for a 125 cc single cylinder engine. The piston bore is 54 mm also, a classic proportion, called 'Square', of equal bore/stroke.   

       A as proposed 800 V12, is just 66,7 cc per cylinder !   

       The reciproc value of the cubic root of 2, (halfing a volume equally in all three directions,..), means a reduction to 79,3 %, of.   

       I.e. : stroke 54 mm x times reduction 0,793 :=   

       design stroke := 42,8 mm,   

       which is in turn : 1,47 x times shorter than the H1 Hyabusa.   

       Therefore, lubrication and cylinder wall tech assumed the same, 47 % higher rev's can be achieved.   

       Therefore, ideally, disregarding increased mechanical friction (lesser order component), 47 % higher force xtimes velocity := excerted power (HP/CV/PS/HK)'s per cylinder voloume has to be seen,.   

       347 HP out of 2,6 liters := 133,5 HP/L,   

       133,5 x times 1,47 := 196,2 HP/L,,   

       And from the proposed 0,8 L := 800 cc :   

       0,8 x 196,2 := 157 HP total max power. !.   

       The original assumbtion of Go-kart engine tech, is in reserve to the this determination,..   

       The main difference beeing the Two-stroke / Four-stroke principle difference,.. 2-strokes processes roughly the double amount of air, per revolution, since a 4-stroke only repeats it's power cycle every 2.nd revolution (an inherent-to-the- core-of-the-concept, 'geo-metrical', feature).   

       Switching therefore the scope of the proposal, in alignment with the specifics of the original out- line :   

       Double the air flow, double the power :   

       2 x 156,9 := 314,0 HP, !!!,   

       This is, by chance, the same as the H1 Hyabusa V8, 2.600 cc V8 versus 800 cc V12, showing the inherent levels of diverse classic engine configurations, combined & compared.   

       The 2.600 cc V8 is given to weigh 91 kilo's.   

       If the Hyabusa specifics of design were ever extended, thought of as 'modularly', to form a V12, the weight of such a beast would be 1,4-1,5 times the V8 , ie. : 91 x 1,45 := 131.5 kilo's.   

       A lowest expectation of V12 800 cc weight is then :   

       800 / 2600 x 131,5 := just 40,4 kilo's,.........   

       A high value could be 65-75 kilos.   

       An average of high and low : 55,2 kilo's. !.   

       A reduction to 60 %, saving 40 % of weight, by changing operating principle, and size determining higher specific power, from higher rev's.   

       A 'star' cylinder, or VW-type W/multi-W spread would yield a more compact power-unit. Vibrations, part division-lines, gaskets, and assembly allowing,..,. :-).   

       A compact unit could be the scope of a High-End motor-cycle producer. Two-stroke revolution,.
sirau, Jun 05 2011

       'might apply to new-generation generator-set/range extender eco-full-hybrid Electrical Vehicle's,,,.. Same point's of interest : The V12 is a Classic,.
sirau, Jun 05 2011

       The Honda link :   

       306 HP/liter := 243,2 Hp from 800 cc, with just 29 strokes,, 32 cylinders required,, :-),,,..   

       20.500 revolutions per minute, right on !!.   

       '66 tech :=ecxatly 45 years ago, now.
sirau, Jun 06 2011

       230hp from an 800cc engine will require some serious hardware in the cooling system. This alone will add enough cost and weight to make it considerably cheaper look at a lot of other alternatives for a 230 hp power plant.
MrExergy, Jun 17 2017


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