Half a croissant, on a plate, with a sign in front of it saying '50c'
h a l f b a k e r y
Bunned. James Bunned.

idea: add, search, annotate, link, view, overview, recent, by name, random

meta: news, help, about, links, report a problem

account: browse anonymously, or get an account and write.

user:
pass:
register,


                                                                   

Helical Spacecraft Trajectory For Artificial Gravity

Have spacecraft move in a spring-like manner to produce the illusion of gravity
  (+2)
(+2)
  [vote for,
against]

Two observations about pop culture spacecraft in SF and Space Opera:

1. Their movement tends to be Aristotelian, as in, they need constant input in order to keep moving.

2. They usually have artificial gravity in such a way that they have a horizontal floor and ceiling rather than a rotary arrangement.

These two can be explained if the craft, as well as moving in a simply curved or straight trajectory between its origin and destination, is also moving in a helical pattern, causing the inertial effect often referred to as centrifugal force, with the floor facing outward and the ceiling towards the axis of the helix. This requires constant thrust and therefore explains the odd tendency of SF spacecraft to grind to a halt when the engines fail.

Although I'd very much like to propose this as a way of generating artificial gravity in real life, the problem would seem to be finding a sufficiently energy-dense method of constantly pushing the craft in a "circle". But if you want "gravity" in a spacecraft you could do this.

nineteenthly, Feb 05 2021

Star Trek: The Next Generation - Technical Manual https://www.amazon....anual/dp/1852833408
Contains details of Federation artificial gravity technology; available from Amazon. [8th of 7, Feb 05 2021]

Anniversary https://en.wikipedi...rsary_(short_story)
"seems to employ force-fields instead of conventional optics" [8th of 7, Feb 05 2021]

Gravity_20Swing [FlyingToaster, Feb 06 2021]

[link]






       Tether and counterweight
pocmloc, Feb 05 2021
  

       I did also think that but it would add to the mass, though probably not as much as fuel or a small portable black hole would.
nineteenthly, Feb 05 2021
  

       So when engines fail, artificial gravity does.   

       Those engine manufacturers should hire the artificial gravity engineers. That never seems to fail, or even get damaged in any Star Trek episode.
RayfordSteele, Feb 05 2021
  

       That's because the artificial gravity generators, like gyroscopes, take a while to "spin down"; if you had read your USS Enterprise - D Technical manual properly, you would know this.   

       Report to your nearest Agony Booth for the usual corrective treatment.
8th of 7, Feb 05 2021
  

       It's upstairs. I'll get it in a minute.
nineteenthly, Feb 05 2021
  

       //Report to your nearest Agony Booth for the usual corrective treatment.//   

       I haven't been in to work in a cubicle as of yet this month. The home office is so much more convenient.
RayfordSteele, Feb 05 2021
  

       [RayfordSteele], it does fail, in one of the films I think.
nineteenthly, Feb 05 2021
  

       It's turned off in "The Undiscovered Country" to facilitate the assassination of Klingon Chancellor Gorkon, if that's what you're thinking of ?   

       // The home office is so much more convenient. //   

       No Pain, No Gain ...
8th of 7, Feb 05 2021
  

       I like how they dealt with this in "The Expanse". For long trips, the ships accelerates for half of the time at with 1g (or slightly less), then flips around and decelerates for the rest of the trip. Up is towards the front of the spaceship, so they the acceleration provides the gravity. When the engines fail, they do have to deal with 0 g. Of course there's magic Sci-Fi for some things, but I like how they attempted to make a lot of things somewhat realistic.
scad mientist, Feb 05 2021
  

       Yes but technically a straight line as described by [kdf] is the same as a very stretched out helix.
pocmloc, Feb 05 2021
  

       Why, if you had 1g of thrust, would you waste it like that?
Voice, Feb 05 2021
  

       //Even at 0.1G, it's no further than the Americas were from Europe in the days of sailing ships.//   

       Even assuming with 100% efficiency* it's megawatts of propulsion, probably via some kind of accelerator. This isn't too bad, well within the small nuclear reactor range... I'm guessing all the problems are in between. How do you heatsink megawatts in space? Maybe we could collect a comet and make a nuclear steam rocket?   

       *I'd have done much better at physics in school if they hadn't started out with lies like this. "I plugged some different numbers into this "artillery" calculation example you gave us sir, and it suggests that the Nazis could've shelled New York, yet I noticed this didn't happen, did anyone run these examples past Werner Von Braun?.... assuming no atmosphere?? So, we'll be well prepared for a Lunar war... which requires an awful lot of running things past Werner Von Braun, doesn't it?"
bs0u0155, Feb 05 2021
  

       Wait, what's the plan for nuclear>electricity in space, because we can't still be on circulating liquids and spinning things? Shirley there's some kind of NucleoVoltaic panel? If you aim alpha and beta radiation between two electrodes with a magnetic field, you could essentially generate Voltage across the plates based upon the separation of the charges.
bs0u0155, Feb 05 2021
  

       //think those problems will be solved long before we have a star-trek like warp drive.//   

       "Sir, the Klingon ship has cloaked, they could be anywhere..."   

       "They let you on the bridge with thinking like that? It's giving off gigawatts of waste heat, they might be playing some tricks with optics but maybe you should pay attention to that conveniently Klingon battlecruiser-sized Brown dwarf that's currently blistering the paint on our starboard side"
bs0u0155, Feb 05 2021
  

       // they could be anywhere... //   

       They're on the starboard bow. They're always on the starboard bow ...   

       // I'm guessing all the problems are in between. //   

       Good guess.   

       // How do you heatsink megawatts in space? //   

       Radiation. Any more daft questions* ?   

       Maybe we could collect a comet and make a nuclear steam rocket?   

       // That's the problem - reaction mass. Even of you can accelerate it to a substantial percentage of C, you still need a LOT of reaction mass, if you're hell-bent on staying with boring old Newtonian mechanics ...   

       // suggests that the Nazis could've shelled New York, yet I noticed this didn't happen, did anyone run these examples past Werner Von Braun?. //   

       The chap they needed was Gerald Bull; HARP was remarkably successful.   

       // Wait, what's the plan for nuclear>electricity in space, //   

       A very, very long roll of wire.   

       // because we can't still be on circulating liquids and spinning things? //   

       No, SNAP showed that thermoelectric conversion was practicable.   

       // Shirley there's some kind of NucleoVoltaic panel? If you aim alpha and beta radiation between two electrodes with a magnetic field, you could essentially generate Voltage across the plates based upon the separation of the charges. //   

       Let's see if any others in the class can answer that one. Is [Voice] awake ?   

       Magnetohydrodynamics are a possibility.   

       // my bookie and my investment advisor (different blokes though they work in the same office) //   

       Different people, basically the same skill set.   

       // both seem to think those problems will be solved long before we have a star-trek like warp drive. //   

       Fine for interplanetary travel; we suggest you look at the potential uses of a deuteron ram.   

       *As long as they're Green, Blue, Yellow or Brown. We don't like Pink or Orange questions, particularly when playing with a U.S. deck of cards, which are full of references to T.V. shows that were rarely broadcast outside their home state ....
8th of 7, Feb 05 2021
  

       What about gravitational lensing? You know how when you look through a telescope, a thing that is very wee and far away suddenly gets a lot bigger and brighter? Well all you need to do is get a gravitational telescope and point it at your destination star or planet. The gravitational telescope makes the planet or star seem much bigger and closer and so your ship is pulled proportionally stronger towards it. You could similarly point the gravitational telescope backwards towards the sun in order to slow down when you have got to your destination, or sideways at a passing galaxy if you want to turn left or right.
pocmloc, Feb 05 2021
  

       // gravitational telescope //   

       First proposed in 1958. <link>
8th of 7, Feb 05 2021
  

       What about using a counterweight, on a tether ? Would that work ?
8th of 7, Feb 05 2021
  

       Yes. Next question please.   

       That's a Pink question. You're not supposed to ask Pink questions, particularly since you're clearly using the U.S. card deck.   

       When [Ray] comes out of the Agony Booth, you're going in next.
8th of 7, Feb 05 2021
  

       <SNORE/>   

       <SNORE/>   

       <SNORE/>   

       <SNORE/>
8th of 7, Feb 05 2021
  

       //Is [Voice] awake? //   

       Photons don't carry an electric charge whether they're alpha, beta, or pizza. Momentum transfer directly to electrons is possible. Point those photons straight at the plate, add some spice, and you have a radioisotope thermoelectric generator. How'd I do teach?
Voice, Feb 05 2021
  

       //Next question please.//   

       Can I put a weight on a very long tether, orbit the earth, give it a little nudge, and have gravity impart spin into my spacecraft via orbital dynamics? (object keeps going, difference in orbital height makes one object orbit faster than the other, spin is imparted by that speed difference) Can I adjust tether length to keep getting the boost? Can I reel it in and spin faster? Can I then let go of the weight for a speed boost? Can I just let it go out each orbit, let centripetal force pull it away, then reel it back in to trade orbital momentum for electricity? Because centripetal force is imparting more force than it had when I gave it that gentle nudge can I reel it in when it's heading prograde/radial out and thereby speed up my craft?
Voice, Feb 06 2021
  

       //Photons don't carry an electric charge whether they're alpha, beta,//   

       I think this will result in being stood in the radioactive source corner until lessons are learned.
bs0u0155, Feb 06 2021
  

       *does a quick Google search   

       *stands up to head toward the RS corner
Voice, Feb 06 2021
  

       //How many Jewish actors played Nazi characters in the original Hogan's Heroes television comedy? Name them.//   

       [link]   

       //How'd I do teach?//   

       You did fine.   

       // Can I put a weight on a very long tether, orbit the earth, give it a little nudge, and have gravity impart spin into my spacecraft via orbital dynamics? (object keeps going, difference in orbital height makes one object orbit faster than the other, spin is imparted by that speed difference) Can I adjust tether length to keep getting the boost? Can I reel it in and spin faster? Can I then let go of the weight for a speed boost? Can I just let it go out each orbit, let centripetal force pull it away, then reel it back in to trade orbital momentum for electricity? Because centripetal force is imparting more force than it had when I gave it that gentle nudge can I reel it in when it's heading prograde/radial out and thereby speed up my craft?//   

       No.
No you can't.
Don't even try.
  

       [8th] beat me to the link.   

       You can do something with 2 gravity sources <link>
FlyingToaster, Feb 06 2021
  

       'That' ^ is a cool idea.   

       Just flinging a gravity well and letting it drag you behind it would produce both the helical path and the gravity simulation situation.   

       So we just need to figure out how to capture and fling singularities.
Go team!
  

       // *stands up to head toward the RS corner //   

       <Sigh/>   

       We're going to need a bigger Agony Booth ...
8th of 7, Feb 06 2021
  
      
[annotate]
  


 

back: main index

business  computer  culture  fashion  food  halfbakery  home  other  product  public  science  sport  vehicle