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Modular Factory Factory

Factory that creates factories that can build anything modern society needs.
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Inspired by the old Ford factory that was the size of a city, raw materials would come in one side and cars would drive out the other. This would be a factory that would indirectly make everything.

Although factories are unlimited in the variety of processes and materials they use to make stuff, factories themselves are similar in the materials needed to make them. An auto body panel press and a surgical scalpel making machine are comprised of many of the same materials, just in different shapes and sizes so they should be able to be made in the same factory.

Then have them made in modules that can be trucked to their prospective cities and assembled similar to how modular housing is created.

I believe it's time for civilized countries to stop utilizing countries that mistreat their workers and to bring manufacturing home. The path to this is better technology. The best way to end slave labor in China for instance is to make it financially unfeasible and this might be one approach.

Thought of this and found the below link being similar, but this is to just have a modular factory factory that makes only factories. Baked? Eh, maybe but needs to be put out there regardless.

doctorremulac3, May 22 2022

Found this being similar, but specifically my idea is to have this make modular factories. Self-replicating_20facility
[doctorremulac3, May 22 2022]

Self-replicating machine https://en.wikipedi...replicating_machine
[Voice, May 22 2022]

Something else we have going for us. https://www.youtube...watch?v=myBVejwZt8Q
[doctorremulac3, May 22 2022]

https://www.newswee...a-505717.html?amp=1 [xenzag, May 22 2022]

Groveling before his Chinese overlords. https://www.youtube...watch?v=z88zeQ25pjQ
Proof that having big muscles doesn't make you a man. [doctorremulac3, May 23 2022]

5 year cancer survival rate by country. https://en.wikipedi...ality_of_healthcare
[doctorremulac3, May 24 2022]

Klaus Schwab: one white cat away from being a Bond villain. https://twitter.com...75478865921?lang=en
"Yu vill own nutzing oont yu vill be HAPPY!! OR ELSE!!" [doctorremulac3, May 24 2022]

Even dresses like his hero. https://www.empireo...cdiarmid-interview/
Emperor Palpatine and him have the same tailor. [doctorremulac3, May 24 2022]

Humans like ice cream. https://www.youtube...watch?v=j4IFNKYmLa8
[doctorremulac3, May 25 2022]

Desserted island https://anopic.us/B...SleRRIaLWMLZ1UO.jpg
[Voice, May 25 2022]

Self-Replicating Machines are the only means through which to spread through the Solar System https://www.nasa.go...tal_alex_ellery.pdf
[mylodon, May 27 2022]

An Architecture for Self-Replicating Lunar Factories http://www.niac.usr...t/880Chirikjian.pdf
Figure 7 shows the seriousness of the situation. [mylodon, May 27 2022]

[link]






       Are we assuming that we know in advance what modern society needs, or does the meta-factory have its own AI market research function to tell it what first-order factories to build?
pertinax, May 22 2022
  

       Well, we can start with stuff we've used for hundreds of years. Eating utensils, tools, household items, toys, clothes, tech products, medicine etc.   

       I'd put the first of these factory factories in Detroit.
doctorremulac3, May 22 2022
  

       Tricky. These factories would become subject to ITAR restrictions, since they could make weapons- related items.   

       Hard to scale also. Lots of tooling and equipment is made by small specialty houses, as there's no need to make 30,000 of the same line presses when 2 will do. Automation gets super cumbersome when it has to make lots of varieties of things. What configuration is optimal to build one type is completely impossible to build another. Just changing over a car line from one truck to the next year's model takes months of preparation and adaptatiob of the equipment.   

       Robots are already assembled by factories, so that's out.
RayfordSteele, May 22 2022
  

       Halfbaked over and over and over in science fiction, to the extent that I'm sure you're read one or two. [-]
Voice, May 22 2022
  

       Fair enough V, you're probably right but do you have examples? I don't know of any.   

       And Ray, I'm factoring in a lot of 3D printing for as many aspects of this as possible, something that's relatively new. They're 3D printing metal now.
doctorremulac3, May 22 2022
  

       Off the top of my head there's the Culture series by Ian Banks, the Matrix machines, and the Berserker series but there are many more. Note that the scale of the self-replication is only a detail of the concept of self-replicating machines which can also produce other things.
Voice, May 22 2022
  

       Well, fair enough, not sure what the technology is in those science fiction stories but this is something with the advent of 3D printing advances that could actually be done.   

       I put up a link of "self replicating machines" in science fiction and they basically just say "self replicating" without getting specific about how.   

       This is a proposal for a way to streamline manufacturing by having a series of master facilities that churn out factories at a hundred to one speed of standard factory construction.
doctorremulac3, May 22 2022
  

       // This is a proposal for a way to streamline manufacturing by having a series of master facilities that churn out factories at a hundred to one speed of standard factory construction.//   

       The whole of your proposal is "a factory that self-replicates". It's a very well-worn idea. Its benefits have been explored many times. See also reprap, grey goo, biology, and the linked Wikipedia article. Saying that your idea is a factory and therefore possible doesn't make it less baked or more possible.
Voice, May 22 2022
  

       Well then where are they? Are there any plans to actually build these or are they only vague entertainment concepts?   

       Writing about space travel doen't bake or WKTE the invention of the liquid fueled rocket.
doctorremulac3, May 22 2022
  

       //Well then where are they? Are there any plans to actually build these or are they only vague entertainment concepts?//   

       There are several organizations working on self-replicating machines of various scales. There exist artificial cells which can self-replicate. There is RepRap. NASA has explored the concept of self-replicating factories on the Moon. In all cases it's not that no one has come up with the idea but that it's really, really hard to make one. In the case of RepRap if you can design a computer that can run the firmware and also be 3-D printed by a RepRap you'll have solved the biggest obstacle they have.   

       //Writing about space travel doen't bake or WKTE the invention of the liquid fueled rocket.//   

       No, but it half-bakes an idea like "push fuel through a tube and light it on fire so it expands, and use that to push a rocket"
Voice, May 22 2022
  

       How do you push that fuel? I just happened to be reading about turbopumps. If somebody proposed the turbo pump you couldn’t say “Somebody’s already proposed pushing fuel through a tube somehow.”   

       You may be right, this idea may be somewhere, but I’m only seeing the words “self replicating” being vaguely thrown around.
doctorremulac3, May 22 2022
  

       What in your idea is more concrete than "a factory that replicates itself"?
Voice, May 22 2022
  

       It's not replicating itself for one thing. It's configured to create most factories for most products and to make these factories separated into modular units that can be easily shipped to the locations where they'll be assembled.   

       Some of the descriptions of self replacating factories are so vague, they have a picture of a robot arm making something, okay, but does this make another robot arm factory right next door? Sure, that's fine, but I think the idea of self replicating anything's been done to death without much specificity.   

       Put it this way, go to a bank and ask them fund any of the science fiction self replicating anythings listed. Tell them that this is the business plan. They're gonna ask for a few more details. Like "What will the end product be?". This end product will be "consumable goods for most industries, the manufacturing of such feasibly distributed across the country to available and appropriate sites proximate to the necessary resources and workers. And along with modular factory manufacturing would come standardization minimizing the constant re-inventing of the wheel. Factories that all make the same thing should be identical following the best agreed upon design."   

       A picture of a robot arm making a robot arm isn't going to open that checkbook.   

       Not rattling the bun cup or anything, and I hear what you're saying, but I think this is a valid enough idea to leave it up.
doctorremulac3, May 22 2022
  

       Unfortunately China's industrial lead is now   

       unassailable and increasing exponentially. They are   

       already the largest economy in the world and will   

       soon be in command of the world's most powerful   

       military. Being a totalitarian state enables China to   

       function like a type of Borg and with a population   

       of over a billion, they have the critical mass to   

       bully everyone into a form of compliance that suits   

       their agenda, Here's the reality: want to build   

       something that uses steel? Where does it come   

       from? Want to manufacture something to a price?   

       Where will you get it made? China will simply start   

       making your factories Doc and you'll end up buying   

       them from them, or your competitors will, and   

       you'll go under. It's capitalism, Chinese style, and   

       they're raking in the dollars. Even Trump ordered   

       everything he built from China. [link]
xenzag, May 22 2022
  

       No, please, PLEASE no more T word.   

       As for China a man can hope technology will out-pace them.
Voice, May 22 2022
  

       Oh god xen, you started so strong then BLAMMO!   

       The reason I've been thinking about stuff like this is specifically how the US can stand up to China. Problem with China having robot factories like this is that they still have to ship across a massive ocean. I've gotten stuff made there before for products I've invented and my company has sold and shipping is a factor in cost.   

       We as a free people build smart enough and there's no amount of slave labor a fascist tyranny can use that can match us.   

       And you know what else we have going for us? (link)
doctorremulac3, May 22 2022
  

       Hey xenzag, regarding wanting to turn this place back into the T word based Hatebakery with that post and when that didn't work, putting up that link, I'm serious, I think you need to see somebody.   

       That's not an insult, that's me being kind to a fellow human being that I think needs some help.   

       But your post prior to the T word thing made a great point. You're a very smart and incredibly creative person and one of the most cherished members of this site, I think I can speak for everybody in saying that.
doctorremulac3, May 23 2022
  

       //As for China a man can hope technology will out-pace them.//   

       China does not recognize intellectual property rights from others.
All your inventions are belong to them.
  

       That is not the way.   

       As for self replicating factories, historically... it is societies which have been forced to change which innovate the most. As an example I would compare our trans-Canada railway being turned into a hiking trail as compared to what is happening concerning railways in Japan.
I suspect that your factory-factories will be obsolete before the first one builds the second.
  

       Doc - I'm just pointing out that when you start building your factories to usurp China, you'll be ordering your steel from guess where? China - just like Trump did. It's a simple undeniable fact. If you choose to spin that as hatred, that's your choice. Read the Newsweek article. It's very informative, and most likely uncomfortable reading but that's something to take up with the journalists and not me.
xenzag, May 23 2022
  

       {starts taking down the bottles from behind the bar}   

       Damn, we only just replaced those stools last month. And as for the pool table ...
pertinax, May 23 2022
  

       I'm well-aware of 3D printed metal. I use it for some of my components. It doesn't have the properties that you need for most tooling, high-stress load-bearing, surface heat- treated, rotating, and structural machine components, which is precisely what you need to make the business end of any factory machine. It can't do decent surface finishes without additional machining, and even then trying to is going to gum up every stamping die, mold, bearing surface, and gear. 3D print me a gear that has the surface finish and hardness to take a few thousand MPa's that gears put up with and then we'll talk.   

       China's edge now is that they have a large pool of manufacturing engineers that the US doesn't.
RayfordSteele, May 23 2022
  

       I'm also aware of the limitations of 3D printing doing it for my company as well which is why I said "I'm factoring in a lot of 3D printing for as many aspects of this as possible". There's no problem with a factory making factories. Factories already make factories. The modular aspect and the standardization is what's suggested here.   

       But there's one important aspect of coming up with new manufacturing processes that's pretty important. Guts. If our attitude is to lie down and give up to some fascist regime that uses slave labor, where workers have zero rights and is a humanitarian disaster then there really is no point in even trying.   

       The link shows what I think is a low point of western civilization. Some well paid American actor that mentioned a free country and its people, Taiwan, and was told by his money hungry managers that he needed to grovel to the fascist Chinese government to apologize for insulting his Chinese overlords for mentioning this country, all in the name of money.   

       First step in any process is not being this guy. (link)
doctorremulac3, May 23 2022
  

       //As for China a man can hope technology will out-pace them.//   

       //China does not recognize intellectual property rights from others. All your inventions are belong to them.//   

       I've always thought China crowing about how well they steal intellectual property they don't create themselves is like the kid in class sitting behind the smart kid, looking over his shoulder and stealing all his test answers then bragging about how he got such a good grade.   

       In competition, be it industrial or even warfare, you only need to be one step ahead to win, and if your whole program is based on copying the innovator, you'll be sending last year's technology to the competition against the new wave. And what is that new wave? You'll find out when your one step behind technology gets wiped out by it. And it doesn't have to be that many steps ahead.   

       Case in point, next time you're in England, ask about the longbow at the Battle Of Agincourt.   

       You'll want to ask in English.
doctorremulac3, May 23 2022
  

       //3D print me a gear that has the surface finish and hardness to take a few thousand MPa's that gears put up with and then we'll talk.//   

       Print and then coat using laser scintering in a nitrogen atmosphere full of flying carbon nanoparticles?
Voice, May 23 2022
  

       // China does not recognize intellectual property rights from others. All your inventions are belong to them.//   

       You're missing the point. If technology improves enough, such as making a self-replicating machine, where the easy ore is will become irrelevant. Where the PEOPLE are will become irrelevant. While it's true that certain elemental metals are much more common in Asia those limitations can be worked around. Look at our move to high k gates in processors: completely different materials.   

       In the end an economy is about giving people what they want. And that can be done with more or less difficulty from any large country's resources.
Voice, May 23 2022
  

       Hey, maybe.   

       Point is, just because we might not be able to do it now doesn't mean we can't figure out how to do it if we put our minds to it.   

       That was a response to your first post V, as to your second one, absolutely.
doctorremulac3, May 23 2022
  

       You'll need a factory to make these factories that make factories.   

       It's factories all the way down.
tatterdemalion, May 24 2022
  

       heh ^ (+)   

       // if your whole program is based on copying the innovator, you'll be sending last year's technology to the competition against the new wave. And what is that new wave? You'll find out when your one step behind technology gets wiped out by it. And it doesn't have to be that many steps ahead.//   

       //You're missing the point. If technology improves enough, such as making a self-replicating machine, where the easy ore is will become irrelevant.//   

       Without patent start-ups can not... start up.
Innovation is stifled without protection from competition. As China flouts intellectual property rights any new innovation needs to compete against the resources and work force of that entire nation.
  

       As long as this remains the case the deck is perpetually stacked in their favour and since North America and its politicians are basically all for sale...   

       ...we're all fucked unless something drastic changes.
Why bomb what you can just out-compete and purchase?
Even more than that though they think in terms of thousands of years and have perfected the long-con while we were perfecting colonization.
  

       So unless your new technology can actually defeat that situation before it can be adopted, then we've all just become Chinese on a really shallow curve which is about to steepen drastically.   

       All legit points, but I also remember when Japan was cleaning our clock in the manufacturing department and buying up land, at least here in California and the general consensus was "We won the war, but they won the peace.". Actually I think the inverse of that statement was coming mostly from them.   

       So what happened to that? There's other factors to consider, one being birth rates (does that figure into this? Dunno) Japan's second quest for world domination lost speed for some reason, maybe because they realized they were happy right where they were. My dad had once said we did them a great favor by beating them in WW2, otherwise generations of Japanese youth sent to keep the occupied territories in line would be getting slaughtered in the mountains and valleys of California by guys like us. Ask England how fun America is to occupy.   

       Maybe the CCP will lose interest too? Maybe they try to invade Taiwan, get their asses handed to them like Russia seems to be currently and decide that having prosperity at home is good enough? I don't know, but I'll keep fighting for our side, even if defeat is inevitable, better to die on your feet than live on your knees.   

       Empires aren't forever, maybe ours is over, but I've been to Italy after the fall of the Roman empire and they're still doing pretty good.   

       But let me clarify, you didn't say anything that I disagree with. Maybe the fact that people are waking up to the threat of CCP expansionism is a good start to standing up to these thugs.
doctorremulac3, May 24 2022
  

       Given the oligarchs running everything in Russia and largely the same situation in China these days but both with questionable birth rates, one wonders if we're going to stay the exception to the rule or not anymore.   

       I wonder, after China's population implosion really starts to work them over, do they start importing cheap Indians and such to fill the gaps?   

       Taiwan is a postage stamp. They're buying tanks from us but frankly if they have to use them it's already over.
RayfordSteele, May 24 2022
  

       My Chinese friends and coworkers tell me China will never import workers of another race. These are Chinese people telling me this, draw your own conclusions.   

       And tanks are 100 year old obsolete technology. I’m thinking the Ukraine might be the last time we see them.
doctorremulac3, May 24 2022
  

       // Ask England how fun America is to occupy.//   

       No no... ask Asia. Same latitude, wide open spaces, billions of... subjects to oversee.
Empires fall because they become complacent. They lose the hunger of youth and or oppression. They need not die and I think the Netherlands is as close as we currently have to how to fix this shit.
An elected monarchy with checks and balances to ensure benevolence.
  

       I hear their monarch rides the public transit just like everyone else and they're just like; "Oh him?... well he's just this guy, you know?"
Meanwhile if your mum gets dementia, there's a village for that.
If you're just too fugly to get laid, there's a conjugal visit prescription for that.
You will take a two week tropical vacation every year and if you can't afford it we've bought an island and you will vacation there.
  

       Etc. etc. yet when all is said and done they pay less in taxes than we do here in Canada.
I mean, my God, in the US if you are a broken and bloody mess on the side of the road without insurance or cash in your pocket they'll leave you there.
  

       WTF are taxes for if not to protect us peons? It's extortion any way you look at it... but we've always paid tithe to the group holding society together.
When those collecting the tithe no longer have the best interests of the society they've been charged with protecting in mind...
  

       ...then, well that is when an empire collapses.   

       The exception seems to be China. It has remained a dictatorship for So long that I don't know if the Stockholm syndrome can be reversed.
There comes a point where you 'need' to be told what to do... or lose identity.
  

       An extremely difficult situation to say the least.   

       Personally, I'm just digging in and hoping that at least some of those in charge can figure out how to throw a wrench of two in the works before the property I've worked a lifetime to gain doesn't suddenly belong to the state.   

       Will the poverty I've worked so long to gain also belong to the state?
Voice, May 24 2022
  

       All things will belong to the state and you will rent them... until you are deemed no longer useful and discarded.   

       Citizen.   

       All hail the glorious leader.
...or else.
  

       Pardon my french but...
...fuck that.
  

       I don't know about anywhere else but, but I do know that Canada will be a very hard mouthful to swallow without asphyxiating.
Perhaps other morsels will be deemed more palatable.
  

       ie. compliant.   

       //in the US if you are a broken and bloody mess on the side of the road without insurance or cash in your pocket they'll leave you there.//   

       Not sure how this story still has legs. An ambulance would pick you up and take you to the emergency room and there's no exception to that. Having worked in hospitals (not as a doctor, I just got that name from the Howard Stern show) I can tell you the emergency rooms are filled mostly with poor immigrants, many of them who don't speak english. We have medicare, socialized medicine that amounts to 12% of the government's budget over 3/4 of a trillion a year, the rest of us are covered by private healthcare.   

       And before you peg me as a right winger, wait for it...   

       The system could. and should be improved, and I'm for taking that money we're spending on civilizing the world through pointless wars and bringing it home and increasing social spending, but there's good and bad social spending. That's a whole new discussion.   

       For instance, how come socialist programs work great in some countries and don't in others?   

       In Venezuela you have to eat zoo animals to survive despite them having among the most oil reserves of any country in that hemisphere. Venezuela is 12th in global oil production vs 57th in oil production for the Netherlands, but the Netherlands do amazingly well. Why is that?   

       Never been to Venezuela, don't ever plan to, but I've been to the Netherlands and yes, they are a model of how to do things so we're in agreement on that. But if socialism is the panacea for all our problems, how come so many socialist countries are absolute poverty stricken hellholes? Even ones rich in natural resources?   

       My view is that socialist programs are a tool that can be used or misused. If we're debating whether hammers are good or bad I'd say "Are we talking about driving nails or cleaning teeth? It's how it's used."
doctorremulac3, May 24 2022
  

       //All things will belong to the state and you will rent them... until you are deemed no longer useful and discarded. Citizen.   

       All hail the glorious leader. ...or else.   

       Pardon my french but... ...fuck that.//   

       Absofuckinggoddamlutely.   

       The sales brochure from the World Economic Forum summit for this new fascism says "After the great reset, you will own nothing, but you will be happy."   

       I suggested adding what you said, "Or else."   

       They really do just come out and say a handful of us elites will own everything. Can't make this shit up. The bait is some sensible social programs, the hook is totalitarian fascism.
doctorremulac3, May 24 2022
  

       // if socialism is the panacea for all our problems, how come so many socialist countries are absolute poverty stricken hellholes? Even ones rich in natural resources?//   

       Because the checks and balances are not in place to ensure benevolence and any system will become corrupt if steps are not taken to counter it in advance.   

       //They really do just come out and say a handful of us elites will own everything.//   

         

       Yes, including politicians and this planned overreaction to the, (perhaps intentional) release of Covid is a good indication that it is not only possible but likely.
We got a little taste of what's coming when our Canadian federal government had a bit of a panic attack, turned militant and started seizing bank accounts the instant our boys drove down there for a little chat and we raised ten million dollars in a couple of days to make sure that they were heard.
  

       Our government has been bought... or at least enough of them to keep the rest in line with threats to their careers if they don't follow suit.   

       The people did not reelect that ass-hat Trudeau, yet there the little shit is.
That's not democracy, it's a con job.
  

       I hear ya.   

       One of the things that never gets discussed is what I think is this false dichotomy (god I hate that term, it's what stupid people use to sound smart) that there's this left wing/right wing thing that assumes there's always been the equivalent of two football teams.   

       Using that analogy, you can't say that one team is right all the time and one is wrong because for one thing, they're constantly changing. I could say "I'm a fan of the SF 49ers because they're awesome! Joe Montana and Jerry Rice and the best quarterback / wide receiver team in history!" to which you'd say "They don't play with the team anymore."   

       Same with the Democrat and Republican parties here in the US for instance. Different players than in the past, different values, entirely different groups. In my opinion the Democrat party used to support the worker, now they hate the lowly knuckle dragging unconnected pickup truck driving hick. Proles that need to know their place. As far as the Republicans, I've always said, stupid or evil, take your pick. And let me be clear, I'm not insulting people who vote for either of those, we're all just doing our best with the choices we've been offered. I've voted for stupid AND evil at various times.   

       That's why I support a topic based discussion, case by case but that's not really allowed. "Are you a moron right winger or a totalitarian communist?"   

       Which is why at parties I use the line "I don't know which party to support, they're both so darn awesome!" which is guaranteed to stop the conversation dead in its tracks.
doctorremulac3, May 24 2022
  

       Ha! I'm using that line.   

       I wouldn't mind the proles nearly as much if they didn't spend so much time acting like Roseanne Barr and trolling reality. I would expect an answer much the same if you ask any other Democrat, or even moderate Republican lately.
RayfordSteele, May 24 2022
  

       //Ha! I'm using that line.//   

       Only way to guarantee all sides will hate us. It's a beautiful thing.
doctorremulac3, May 24 2022
  

       At the risk of being boring, I can highly recommend the Australian system (order-of- preference voting), where it's possible to vote against both major parties without wasting your vote. And a steadily growing number of people are doing that.   

       It has been pointed out that you could experiment with that in the US, without actually changing the constitution, because it's one of those aspects of voting where each state can do its own thing.   

       <edit>Ooh, I just checked, and I see that Maine is already doing this. Good for Maine. </edit>
pertinax, May 25 2022
  

       I’m all for trying new approaches like that.
doctorremulac3, May 25 2022
  

       Is that how we ended up with Susan Collins?
RayfordSteele, May 25 2022
  

       Live in the pod. Eat the bugs. Work in the cage.
Voice, May 25 2022
  

       Or eat the ice cream. (linky)   

       Apologies for any nightmares this video might cause.
doctorremulac3, May 25 2022
  

       I'm not much for horror, but that's still an awesome video.
Voice, May 25 2022
  

       Note the song in the background. Creepy AF.   

       That brand of ice cream isn't horrible by the way. Low sugar. low carb. Certainly creative in their advertising.
doctorremulac3, May 25 2022
  

       // China's edge now is that they have a large pool of manufacturing engineers that the US doesn't. //   

       If this is true, then why does China barely export any cars?
4and20, May 27 2022
  

       Different focus and better margins elsewhere maybe? Also difficulty with regulations and high risk given the trade war. I imagine it costs a lot to get a new car certified for safety and smog and with China a popular target for tariffs and embargoes all that money in developing for the American market and getting past regulators could disappear at the whim of a politician.
Voice, May 27 2022
  

       They export car parts by the gazillion, and there's enough of a market there to not bother with the complexities of whole vehicle exportation.
RayfordSteele, May 28 2022
  

       Disease outcomes are a poor measure of healthcare. You need to somehow derive the post-cultural-effects influence of the healthcare system on healthcare outcomes. So that includes the people who never got sick. A system that prevents 50% of cancers from ever getting started leaving the most dangerous needing treatment would look worse than one which cures them all after they start if you only use cancer survival rates. But you have to eliminate cultural factors, like smoking rates, diet, stress, family life, types of work, median hours exercised etc. etc. except where (and here it gets even hairier) those cultural factors are caused by the healthcare system. Maybe you would be better off reading chicken entrails.
Voice, May 28 2022
  
      
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