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Teach kids that water flows downhill

Teacher, leave them kids alone
  (+4, -2)
(+4, -2)
  [vote for,

Teach children capitalism??? Revolting. We're the land of Marx, Engels and Fawkes. Haven't these people seen Mary Poppins? Feed the birds. Grab your pitchfork and meet me at 10 Downing Street!

Do let us know if you're open for a swap, dear Brits.

theircompetitor, Nov 15 2013

This kind of thing should be taught https://www.youtube...outube_gdata_player
[xaviergisz, Nov 16 2013]

i have no idea what tc is talking about http://www.telegrap...-David-Cameron.html
but if rcarty is right, this link may help [calum, Nov 16 2013]

A very very brief history of industrial psychology http://www.siop.org...ory/historynew.aspx
Very vague allusions [rcarty, Nov 16 2013]


       This is a very well-made point. I'm just not sure what it is.
MaxwellBuchanan, Nov 15 2013

       It's a little more complicated than puire ideology, that you can teach in schools. Remember Marx is a materialist. Basically in a capitalist society only some people can be actual capitalists, because they need workers. Bismark changed that invented the middle class, so atleast people would own homes as a form of capital, Ford did another big thing, and got everybody their own car. Neoloberalism did something else, getting rid of as much working class in capitalist countries as possible, and instituting reforns to get workers to adopt capitallist ideologies, particularly by focussing on job search and resumes and stuff like that. But it's not going to work poor people is the state of humans in nature. If you want security for the rich there has to be security for the poor, so that means a public sector that is not in the market for everyone outside the market. Simply forcing everyone to get into the market is like trying to invent an antigravity machine. Some people will be too dense to ascend classes no matter how much energy you put in.
rcarty, Nov 15 2013

       [rcarty] I think you're wrong on multiple fronts there, chief being the worker demand: rising productivity is likely the chief cause of the growing disparity in incomes.   

       The fact that Cameron's proposal seems so shocking is likely the perfect signal just how distorted public education is, whether in the UK or elsewhere.
theircompetitor, Nov 15 2013

       This is the news report the Cameron said poor must raise asperations?   

       Yes well that's basically thatcherism-neoliberalism, human initiative thing again.   

       Rising productivity in what, high tech, information and knowledge economies? Of course that creates disparity. There's academic credentials, and raw brain power in the way. A disparate society based on advancement of this kind of capital was exactly what marx was talking about.   

       My suggestions would be number one, eliminate stupid social competition ethos that is so dear to darwinians. Don't make people compete for jobs, but let everyone with some ability contribute what they can, and not necessarily give them their needs, but based on what they can produce. Second, start all childrens education off in the skilled trades, everything from cutting dolls hair, to carpentry, and academics last. Third, a public commons where low income people don't necessarily have to maintain private single family dwellings, but share accomidations and community resources. There's a lot of social values, 'christian' (although christians are communal and not single families) and otherwise that stop social progress, and conservatives that arn't necessarily capitalists insist that they be maintained.
rcarty, Nov 15 2013

       In any Bureaucracy ( animal, vegetable, or mineral ) left, right or center it is not water, but excrement that flows downhill. But don't teach the kids that and steal what little hope they still have.
popbottle, Nov 16 2013

       //neo-loberalism// [marked-for-dictionary] definition to follow.
FlyingToaster, Nov 16 2013

       Neoliberalism - the simplest definition is if liberalism is in fact bourgeoise ideology, then neoliberalism a program of reforms to globalise manufacturing, rationalize the domestic economy, undermine the soviet union (in the absurd russian, and international workers union sense of the word), get people off social welfare and develop positive attitues towards work and capitalism, and privatize public sector businesses and services, play Ace of Base on the radio, and myriad other reforms, it's quite an extensive implementation. These, in combination with neoconservatism, the reversal of popular progressive movements from the fifties and sexties, have been the defining points of my generation. Even environmentalism is part of market rationalization, a co- opting of an anticapitalist argument transformed into a more rational sellf-regulating consumer.
rcarty, Nov 16 2013

       Neo-loberalism: a program of reforms to reprogram or replace defective parts of poor minds, one lobe at a time.
RayfordSteele, Nov 16 2013

       // but let everyone with some ability contribute what they can//   

       From each according to his abilities.   

       The most offensive part of "liberal" vision is that it constantly seeks to "let" or permit humans to go about their activities. It's this bizzare assumption that it is easier to list what's allowed, then what's not allowed.
theircompetitor, Nov 16 2013

       I think it would be better worth our time to teach kids that shit flows downhill. Best to shatter the delusion that hard work and honesty will get you to the top as early as possible.
Alterother, Nov 16 2013

       [Alterother], there has never been a time, in the history of man, where it has been easier to follow your own path, to the top or otherwise.
theircompetitor, Nov 16 2013

       Wrong Solon the greek reformer of the early athenian city state instituted a series of reformers allowing grain producers to ascend to government bureaucratic positions based on increased yields. He basically invented social mobility.
rcarty, Nov 16 2013

       ascending to government bureaucratic positions is a bit different than making a living on Etsy or being offered 3B for sending selfies. I'll grant you Athens was an important milestone, perhaps one of the most important. But they failed to scale.
theircompetitor, Nov 16 2013

       Not to mention that things have changed a little bit since Solon's time. Not much, but a little. Today we reward the incompetents, liars, and pissants with meaningless accolade rather than stoning them to death in the town square. The strong, forthright, and honorable people are mostly still at the bottom. Drive through any inner-city housing tract and look at the freshly painted houses and well-kept lawns. Those neighborhoods are full of good people displaying their pride because pride is all they have. Meanwhile the high and mighty endow their ungrateful brats with fortunes they haven't earned, and somewhere in the middle are millions of shallow, ignorant twits whose highest aspiration in life is to amass 100,000 Facebook followers.   

       Gods, I'm starting to sound like [bigs].
Alterother, Nov 16 2013

       That first link is...   

       ...well, who needs conspiracy theories after watching that?
No wonder they want to disarm the public. The whole shebang is bound to go all Sparticus on them sooner or later.

       ...and it's already later.   

       Besides their pride, [Alterother], they have to count the million -- US -- of taxpayer dollars their children would have cost to put through 12 grades. This colossal, indescribable failure is purely a result of capitalism being neither practiced, nor taught, in their schools.
theircompetitor, Nov 16 2013

       I can get on board with that, as long as I know where the lifeboats are located.
Alterother, Nov 16 2013

       //These, in combination with neoconservatism, the reversal of popular progressive movements from the fifties and sexties, have been the defining points of my generation.//   

       These defining points of your generation, [rcarty] - how can I break this to you? They didn't actually happen. More specifically,
1. the progressive movements of the sexties were sharply different from those of the fifties.
2. the progressive movements of the sexties were never, even at the time, as popular as they thought they were. There's a reason why people in them at the time failed to spot this which is, as Steven Fry might say, "quite interesting".
3. Because the progressive movements of the sexties were never, actually, as popular as they thought they were, there's no need (distant sound of razor being sharpened) to postulate a series of fiendishly clever capitalist plots to explain their subsequent collapse.

       That's not to say that capitalists can't be clever - or fiendish - or, occasionally, both. It's just that, on this occasion, they didn't need to be.
pertinax, Nov 20 2013

       ...overpopulation? That's my grandmother's favorite flogging horse. Or you could ask my Mom about welfare programs, or talk to my Dad about animal cruelty. Oh, and I made sure to marry a woman who has strong opinions about...well, a lot of things. Sometimes when it all gets too much the dog and I discuss the scheduling of meals.
Alterother, Nov 21 2013

       //This is a very well-made point. I'm just not sure what it is. — MaxwellBuchanan//   

       At the risk of inflating an Englishman's ego, and I know I'm going to regret admitting this, but it's come to the point where I gloss over an idea and skip to Max's anno to see what the hell's going on without having to actually pay attention to details, re-read the idea etc.   

       Anyhoo, I'm going to bone this… no wait… bun. [+]
doctorremulac3, Nov 21 2013

       //the need to raise taxes in all countries//   

       [bigsleep] Never seen any budget -- any budget -- that couldn't be cut by 10% simply by asking some questions. Raise taxes for what?
theircompetitor, Nov 21 2013


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