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21st Century Pyramid

The New Pyramids of our time!
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(+5, -1)
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Egyptians did it 5000 years ago. Isn't it the time for a remake of the Pyramids? If we match the effort and investment on the old ones, with our technology we should be able to make one that is 100 miles across! That would give a peak that is 50 miles above ocean. Almost space!

It can be located somewhere between Arizona, Nevada, and Mojave desert. If we get 100,000 non-unions to work on it with 10,000 trucks and cranes etc., working from several quarries, my guesstimate is it should be complete in 10 years.

Why, if someone can suggest a steel tunnel 400 miles long (800 miles roundtrip), can I not suggest this crazy idea? You can paraglide down from it to Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Portland, San Francisco, or even L.A.!

Okay, let's get to a more Futuristic version of the Pyramids. This one is made of Superconductor Magnet rings. The very bottom ring has a D of 100 miles, next one, 50 miles, next one 25 miles, etc. Each is like 100 ft. thick in cross-section. Load them each up with 100 MegaAmps, with alternating current direction between each layer. They should all shoot to the sky and reach as far as 100 miles high! Make an elevator in between them, and you have your Space Hotel!

I wonder how many of those who blame me for criticising me for criticising a crazy idea will criticise me now.

xkuntay, Aug 29 2013

Spaceframe_20Mountain [FlyingToaster, Aug 29 2013]

Desert_20Space-Scraping_20Arcologies [FlyingToaster, Aug 29 2013]

Space%20Mountain [FlyingToaster, Aug 29 2013]

StarTram http://www.startram.com/
This was where I got the original idea. BUT, they do not talk about stacking the magnets like I do. [xkuntay, Aug 29 2013]

Force and field between two wires http://hyperphysics...agnetic/wirfor.html
Calculate by plugging in the numbers. [xkuntay, Sep 01 2013]


       Superconductor No. Individual platform weight (per m): 50 kg Cable weight (per m): 0.1 kg Decrements for platform length: 10 m Assuming repulsion only between adjacent platforms. Force between two wires 7MAmps each, 5000m apart: 1959 N/m Force between two wires 7MAmps each, 10000m apart: 979 N/m Platform no. height(km) Platform length (m) total weight (kg) weight (kg/m) force (N/m) 1 5 49955 85425300 1710.045041 16758.4414 2 10 48965 82927050 1693.598489 16597.26519 3 15 47985
xkuntay, Aug 29 2013

       //I wonder how many of those who blame me for criticising me for criticising a crazy idea will criticise me now.//   

       If that sentence means what I think it means, then there's always <link>, <link> or <link>.   

       sp "criticize".
FlyingToaster, Aug 29 2013

       Good finds. Have not seen anything with superconductor magnets though.
xkuntay, Aug 29 2013

       Also, criticise is acceptable.
xkuntay, Aug 29 2013

       if you want to put something into orbit you want to do it horizontally, not vertically, so along the top ridgeline as posited in the first link (my idea, marked as mfd because it's redundant with the second link, Vernon's idea). Regardless of which, specifying "superconducting magnets" seems rather non-sequitur, given the magnitude of the idea.
FlyingToaster, Aug 29 2013

       Come again? I do not intend to launch things to space. This is just for people to go up the elevator, spend a night at the top ring, and come down.   

       This is doable with current technology, and could even be feasible. Maybe only $2 billion. Not much for Muskee.
xkuntay, Aug 29 2013

       I have another device to launch things to space. That comes next.
xkuntay, Aug 29 2013

       with bated breath I await.
FlyingToaster, Aug 29 2013

       I'm thinking about baiting my breath, if I have to keep reading these.
Custardguts, Aug 29 2013

       My breath comes pre-bated, I have a small 3D printer that does it.
not_morrison_rm, Aug 29 2013

       Or you could remove that bit about mexicans, wasn't funny.
zeno, Aug 29 2013

       Try category : Public : Architecture or something other than General!!
xandram, Aug 29 2013

       oh, you mean the thing will be built from magnetic repulsion. nifty.   

       But I'm gonna guess the amount of magnetic force necessary to repulse the elements on the order of 10's of miles against gravity is going to   

       a) require more electrical power than the human race currently produces, and   

       b) do incredibly nasty things to passengers.
FlyingToaster, Aug 29 2013

       You are right on b). well, unless they leave all their metal things behind. Not on a). that is why they are superconductors. Once you load them up they will stay with minimal energy.
xkuntay, Aug 29 2013

       Completing them in ten years isn't anywhere near the same level of effort. Whole cities were dependent on the building of the pyramids over hundreds (thousands?) of years. If we were to exert the same effort today we could pretty much pick any project from science fiction and see it done. Or just reshape the moon into a pyramid.
Voice, Aug 29 2013

       // how many of those who blame me for criticising me for criticising a crazy idea will criticise me now.//   

       Count me in.
MaxwellBuchanan, Aug 29 2013

       Okay. Where are your clever rear remarks? No rebuttals?
xkuntay, Aug 30 2013

       Give me a chance, bud. I haven't even begun the buttals yet.   

       In the meantime: "build a big pyramid" - meh. Not much point in posting an idea simply to have a rant, but I guess it's been done before.
MaxwellBuchanan, Aug 30 2013

       Now, a Sierpinski Triangle Pyramid, there you'd have something. And it wouldn't cost anything in tems of materials, since the surface area would be zero. Manpower and tooling might be more of an issue.
RayfordSteele, Aug 30 2013

       Again, please note that this pyramid is made up of superconductor magnets that repel each other. Basically, you have a floor every 5 miles and nothing in between. It works with levitation.   

       I do not know what the highest levitation achieved to date is, but theoretically if the superconductor magnet is strong enough you can repel an iron block up to 5 miles high. Same applies to two magnets with opposite polarities.   

       Now continue the pattern. First floot with N-S, next one with S-N, then N-S again, and all are fixed with Meissner effect. If you do a cascading with smaller magnets every floor, you can theoretically go up to 50 to 100 miles, with 10-20 magnet "rings". This structure will float in the air, will have minimal air drag on it, which can be countered with fans on each floor, and will be strong enough to support small equipment. If I had 20k to spend, I would do a miniature one of 10 ft high and it would I bet be a great showcase.
xkuntay, Aug 30 2013

       Yep, this would work on one of the planets. Just not this one, 'cos last time I saw, Superconductors need liquid Nitrogen.
Ling, Aug 31 2013

       Not like they are using nitrogen as fuel. They will have on board coolers. There are palm sized devices that make liquid N. How else do hospitals use them.. Maglev... Power lines.. Duh?
xkuntay, Aug 31 2013

       Palm sized devices for making liquid Nitrogen? I know of the molecular sieve process which produces Nitrogen gas, but liquid Nitrogen from a palm sized device must be deviously clever.
Ling, Sep 01 2013

       Well you cant make a substance obviously but you can extract it from air. Chill air to -195 degrees C. Oxy condenses first. Take away the liquid. Then chill further to -200. That should give 90% liquid nitro. Not that you need it for this topic.
xkuntay, Sep 01 2013

       Well, I looked at one Company's web site, and they have something the size of a small water dispenser that produces about a litre per day with the power consumption of a normal freezer.   

       Perfect Halfbaking material...
Ling, Sep 01 2013

       Anyway, Professor FJ Lewis, returning to the subject...   

       //      I do not know what the highest levitation achieved to date is, but theoretically if the superconductor magnet is strong enough you can repel an iron block up to 5 miles high. Same applies to two magnets with opposite polarities.//   

       That just sounds...incredible. First, with a steady state field, I never saw iron do any repelling...am I mistaken? But *like* poles repel, or at least, currents in opposite directions repel.   

       But 5 miles?
I'm going to try to think out loud:
Critical current density is one limiting factor.
Current in the Superconductor is proportional to it's cross section.
Separating force per unit length is proportional to the square of the current, and inversely proportional to the distance (assume 2 identical conductors, and assuming the conductor is represented by a zero thickness line).
But per unit length weight is proportional to the area as well.
Since the conductor has thickness, the further parts do not generate the same separation force as the nearest parts.
So, a bigger superconductor would not levitate more than a small one?


       Did I miss something?
Ling, Sep 01 2013

       Good points. A bun for you for that. I don't know who Prof. Lewis is, but I am sure he is smart.   

       Let's start with iron levitation. Youtube levitation. That's that.   

       I initially thought the Critical Current Density could be the limiting factor. Well, guess what? You can make the cross-section of the superconductor as large as you want (or strand several hundred wires together) and you can get 7 MAmps without exceeding CCD.   

       Now, go to [link] and plug in 7 MAmps for two wires that are 5000 m apart (okay, 3.0 miles).   

       Gives you 1959 Newtons per m. That is about 195 kg per m. If your superconductor is ligher than that, you have a lift.   

       Now, the problem is Critical Field. But use the same website address to calculate magnetic field at 1m for 7 MAmps. Turns out only 1.46 Teslas. Most superconductors easily handle 2-3 Teslas.   

       Am I missing anything? I am also curious.
xkuntay, Sep 01 2013

       Well, if I search for iron levitation, mostly I get trailers for Iron Man 3. But levitation is not the same as repulsion, and although Iron levitation is quite common using an overhead electromagnet, I have never seen iron repulsion. Can you post a link? I would like to see this.   

       For the 7MA superconductor: if critical current density is 100KA, then a 70m2 conductor is required. If its density is only around 3t per m3, it will weigh 210t/m of conductor. But separation force is about 2000N/ m...enough to lift 0.2t. I think that is what you are missing.
Ling, Sep 02 2013

       By the way "F J Lewis": search "History today" on youtube.
Ling, Sep 02 2013

       Well that assumption will be wrong. CCD is not that low for most SC. They successfully pushed 100kA through a 1mm thick wire. So, we are looking at 0.2 m2 crossection of wire. The rest can be a very light composite foam. With your density, it could still be too heavy. Then what do we do?   

       Well, then you bring them closer, to 1 mile. They have to balance somewhere. Every time you reduce distance by half, you quadruple the force.   

       Call it what you like, but there is a pic of an iron block floating on SC in wiki (okay it was a ferromagnet, not pure iron). itcomes back.
xkuntay, Sep 02 2013

       Also, I think a 10 mile long cable is going to apply more force than a 1 mile cable. Not 10 times more, but 4 - 5 times. That is why it is a pyramid.
xkuntay, Sep 02 2013


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