h a l f b a k e r y
Not so much a thought experiment as a single neuron misfire.
add, search, annotate, link, view, overview, recent, by name, random
news, help, about, links, report a problem
or get an account
Climb Mt Everest
In a climate controlled hallway equipped with stairs and escalators if you get tired.
Built off the path that mountain climbers take, an entirely
enclosed stairway that you can use to climb Mount Everest
complete with restaurants, pubs and even hotels placed
strategically along the way. The top would have a beautiful
luxury resort with hot tubs, pools etc. There would be
medical facilities as well.
Now for those saying we can't despoil this great natural
wonder, I'd point out that it's currently desolate location
for crazy rich people (most pay about $45,000 to climb it)
many of whom die on the trek, their bodies being left in
the snow, sometimes for generations.
So OK, we've had our fun with suicide mountain, how about
retaining adventure portion and greatly reducing the
danger because climbers could tap out and walk twenty
feet over to the climate controlled hallway up the
mountain, knock on the door and warm up, get some
oxygen, a hot meal and if they're smart, an escalator or
tram trip down to the bottom.
As far as wrecking the beauty of the mountain, that thing
is big, you wouldn't even be able to see this structure
without powerful binoculars. The resort at the top maybe,
but a ten foot tall, hallway going up the side, especially
painted to match the mountain would be very hard to
Dhunno, seems like putting something on top of Everest wouldn't despoil the majesty.
This mountain top development looks pretty cool. [doctorremulac3, May 25 2019]
Beeb news, queing to stand on the top
[not_morrison_rm, May 25 2019]
Nepal's number one industry? Tourism.
Just sayin'... [doctorremulac3, May 26 2019]
||//crazy rich people (most pay about $45,000 to climb it)//
Uh, can I
just point out that being able to afford $45K is not many
idea of crazy rich, or even (if you meant crazy, comma,
||Howevertheless, I do approve of this scheme. But the soft-
route should be carved as a tunnel *inside* the mountain.
means that, after some crazy non-rich masochist has
way up the outside of the mountain and made it to the
be able to open a little trap door next to her and offer her a
||// how about retaining adventure portion and greatly reducing the danger //
||Kinda defeats the purpose of climbing a steep,
inhospitable, brutally cold obstacle if one can but take
the easy way out shod with furry bunny slippers and a
Sherpa to tote your hot toddy.
||On the other hand a guided tour of the sights along the
way to include the various (hundreds) of colorfully
adorned dead bodies, folks who did not take the easy
way, might be interesting.
||People could still torture themselves to death, this would be
another way to get to the highest place on Earth. I don't see
any reason why it shouldn't be developed. Nothing lives up
there, it's rock and ice. If you're discrete, it could even be
invisible like Max said.
||Sigh, it's nature though so I guess we should just leave it for
postcards and suicidal rich masochists.
||Actually, given the marked geologic instability of the entire region, this could still result in huge numbers of unnecessary deaths, so we have changed our vote to [+] on the condition that the structure is badly designed, shoddily built of inferior materials, and completely lacking any seismic mitigation or indeed emergency exits.
||Surely cheaper to make a Climb Mt Everest VR
simulator? The VR helmet could have a small
syringe of something lethal to plunge into your
neck if you die in the VR.
||I disagree that building man made structures in nature
somehow destroys it. Paving over a flower filled field and
building a strip mall is one thing, but putting a glittering,
crystalline skyscraper on a mudflat can enhance the
beauty of nature.
||Man made stuff is natural by the way, we're not robots,
we're products of nature as well. The New York skyline is
a product of nature. The Eiffel Tower was created
naturally by natural natured naturals that were nurtured
by nature naturally.
||That being said robots are natural too, but then again
there's nothing that isn't natural so... yea.
||Yes, man-made stuff is as natural as termite mounds.
However, we humans like to see stuff we haven't made, as
well as stuff we made.
||Likewise, people complaining when their food
||Apparently you have to get in a queue to stand on the peak of Everest these days. Link
||Well, they should put up a parking lot.
||//we humans like to see stuff we haven't made, as well
as stuff we made//
||I say let the Nepalasoids decide. It's their mountain.
||Hey Nepal, how about a billion a year added to your
economy from tourism? Or you can keep the postcard
view of the mountain without a couple of lights on it at
night. A billion dollars buys a lot of vintage postcards if
||Actually, all the lights could be internal so they're not
visible from outside I suppose, but I think lighting the
world is the prettiest thing man does. Nature likes it too.
Ask the moths.
||//Hey Nepal, how about a billion a year added to your
economy from tourism?// And that, ladies and gentlemen, is
American imperialism at its finest, buying hearts and minds.
Would you like to go
||There is one thing about climbing Everest which is hard to get elsewhere and that is a free mummification service with the slim chance of being cloned by future inhabitants.
||// they should put up a parking lot //
||That would be good, then you could build a tree museum right next to it.
// buying hearts and minds. //
||It's much better than some if the other ways of persuasion. "When you've got them by the balls, their heads and their hearts will folliw".
||There there, no need to panic ... we're here now, and we can help.
||Don't forget to tip your sherpa.
||Actually, thinking about it, that might be a bad thing.
||//And that, ladies and gentlemen, is American
imperialism at its finest,//
||We've hopefully learned a thing or two about empire from
you guys, namely, don't do it. But commerce and
development, that's something else. Empire is marriage,
international commerce is a quickie where everybody
gets what they
want without the "Hey, let's all live together!"
commitment. Goods and services are exchanged, one
leaves the money on the table and goes
home, everybody's happy.
||No, they'd build it, the Nepalonians would put the design,
construction etc out for bid to everybody. Get it built
with say a 3 year note to pay it off, the rest is gravy.
||Sherpas get a starting salary of say... $100,000 a year?
Housing included because while you've got all that
construction stuff, gonna want infrastructure. A beautiful
shining city at the base of the mountain.
||And robots. Lots and lots of robots.
||And what I said about no lights at night? Screw that. This
thing would sparkle like a friggin Christmas tree.
||But again, not for me to say, take it to the
Nepalpalanians, let them vote on making enough money
to buy a week's worth of goat's milk by dragging some
dumb westerner half way up a mountain to die or live in a
nice little 3 bedroom 2 1/2 bath place with a hot tub in
the back and a 40 hour work week. Full medical care,
college for the kids, 6 weeks vacation a year....
||a car instead of a fucking donkey?
||Like I said, it's their mountain.
||// a car instead of a fucking donkey? //
||Thankfully our knowledge of the sexual proclivities of the Nepalese is very limited when the subject is domestic and domesticated animals. Yakety-yak ...
||Cars are of limited utility in a mountainous environment lacking roads.
||//But commerce and development, that's something else. //
I respectfully disagree. It's a nicer way to build an empire,
but it's still imperialism. It's like winning the lottery and then
visiting a friend's house and saying "Hey, I don't like your
wallpaper, here's a thousand bucks if you redecorate with
something I like." The fact that America doesn't see why this
is a problem, is the problem.
||//Cars are of limited utility in a mountainous
environment lacking roads.//
||//It's a nicer way to build an empire, but it's still
||No Americans would benefit from this at all. In this
scenario the Nepalons (OK, I'll give that a break)
decide to develop their own natural resource, a
famous mountain, after voting on it. They put bids
out to contractors and financial organizations all
over the world to build and manage a small city on
it. Properly done, loans for the construction would
be paid for by tourist dollars and in a few years the
investment would bring hundreds of millions of dollars a
year into the local economy.
||Put it all on one side of the mountain maybe, leave
the other side o'natural for the postcards and the
||Good name for a punk band.
||By the way, I want to talk to the English about
imperialism. I posit that there's imperial guilt but
vestigial imperial desire that's being satisfied by
bringing the new empire home to within Britain's
borders. "We're not taking their land, in fact we're
giving them OUR land so it's OK." This merging of
cultures for social or economic reasons, or
whatever, you tell me, is sacrosanct and cannot be
questioned. To ask why groups of people must be
moved from here to there means you hate them.
No other reason.
happening here. In our case it's about establishing
a one party system after the Democrats losing
election after election. It's also about driving down wages
the rich can get richer and to establish a two class
system, a permanent, self appointed ruling class and an
obedient worker bee
class. In doing so that pesky, uppity middle class would
eliminated, which is probably a vestige of the
communist manifesto philosophy which most Democrats
were indoctrinated with
in college. (Whether they knew it or not by the way.)
Unfortunately their professors seemed to have skipped
over the chapters in the book where
the workers were elevated and went right
to the part where the vanguard of the proletariat
was anointed total power over life the universe
||As an American I have some harsh views of any
kind of imperialism and yes, we do stuff that I'm
not happy with. Being the policeman of the world
got old a long time ago for instance. Suggesting
that some shithole country build a water
purification plant is OK, but suggesting that
Afghanistan be transformed into Kensingon East is a
farce and a waste of time. This new improved
imperialism where we bring the world home to
civilize it rather than going over there and
shooting at them until they love us seems to be
satisfying that same old imperial itch but with an
attractive new "humanitarian" packaging.
||//Man made stuff is natural by the way// Yeah, working 10hrs a day for virtual measurement. That's natural.
||In a world where all different logics are needed to expand the collective mind. Wanting all Kensingtons is a self limiting exercise.
||Well, you said //No Americans would benefit from this at
but that's neither true nor the point. The point is that you
create a little piece of America right there in Nepal. And
beneficiaries will be (largely American) visitors who get to
familiar comfortable surroundings in an unfamiliar and
||Do you ever wonder whether it's _normal_ for an American
able to visit any city in the world and stay at an American
order American fast food and wash it down with Coke or
can tell you, it's not normal - it has been made possible
American tourist dollars have in effect purchased parts of
and its culture. The prevailing attitude is "Hey, this place
great if there were a Holiday Inn!", and bingo - one is built
||I'm not saying the locals aren't complicit - they let Holiday
the place because they get money. It's just that it gradually
obliterates everything else. Like I said, it's like visiting a
friend's house and offering him wads of money to
redecorate it to your
||I was thinking about this a lot yesterday, and wondering
Americans* are both courted and hated in much of Europe (I
actually know much about Nepal), and I think this is why. I
Randy Newman said it better.
||*as a mass; most people including me seem to like most
Americans on a personal level.
||//but that's neither true nor the point. The point is that
you get to create a little piece of America right there in
Nepal. And the beneficiaries will be (largely American)
visitors who get to stay in familiar comfortable
surroundings in an unfamiliar and uncomfortable place.//
||OK, ban all Americans from participating in any aspect of
this. No Americans on Everest ever again. Fine with me.
||//The prevailing attitude is "Hey, this place would be
great if there were a Holiday Inn!", and bingo - one is
built to meet the demand.//
||As opposed to seeing people living in squalor and saying
"Oh how quaint, look how much better we are than them.
They're so amusing." Offering people a better way to do
things is the most respectful thing you can do to a
||//It's just that it gradually obliterates everything else.
Like I said, it's like visiting a poorer friend's house and
offering him wads of money to redecorate it to your
taste.// I'm sure the people of the third world are very
excited about walking around in loincloths for our
amusement, but once most humans get a taste of
technology they ain't going back. Culture can endure the
onslaught of advances in science, technology and
||Japan is still uniquely Japanese despite falling in love
with western industry after the turn of the century. They
occasionally, often surpass us. It's a point of pride for
them. I love the story of how post WW2, Mr Toyota took a
tour of the Ford plant, realized Japan could never
compete with the industrial might of the U.S. so he
devised a way of making cars that utilized the power of
the individual worker on the assembly line to better the
process. Got a way to eliminate this step? You'll get
rewarded if it's implemented. When the gas crisis hit in
the 70, their streamlined way of making small, cheap cars
put them at the top of the game. But cultural
relationships are like any bonding of two parties. Some
are matches made in heaven, some not so much.
|| //I was thinking about this a lot yesterday, and
wondering why Americans* are both courted and hated in
much of Europe//
||Probably because we say stuff like in the previous line.
But also, the globalists ironically need to divide and
America has a reputation of not falling in line, blowing up
countries with super great plans for world domination,
that sort of thing, so the masses need to be indoctrinated
into hating it.
||But mostly they're just jealous of our big wieners.
||//OK, ban all Americans from participating in any aspect of
this.// The point is, [doc], that you came up with
something that Americans would like. And they probably
would. The problem with this is - well, here's a related
point you made:
||//Offering people a better way to do things is the most
respectful thing you can do to a culture// which speaks to
the same point. What you're offering them is an
_American's idea_ of the better way to do things, which is
not the only better way to do things.
||// I'm sure the people of the third world are very excited about walking around
in loincloths for our amusement, but once most humans get a taste of technology
they ain't going back.// Well, I don't think the Nepalese wear loincloths, though
obviously they will when you pay them to. But what America "gives" to the rest
of the world is not technology or trousers; it's MTV and Wallmart jogging pants;
you're "giving", but on American terms because you can't envisage another way of
life that's good.
||Also, I lied a bit when I said I don't know much about Nepal - my buddy is
developing an arsenic test-kit that will be cheap and need no underlying
technology or skills. It's needed because much of the well-water in Nepal is
periodically contaminated with arsenic, depending on which way the ground-
water is flowing that year. So I know a bit about at least one thing they need,
and it's not MTV or Holiday Inn.
||It's the well-intentioned inability to "get" it that is the fundamental problem.
||//Offering people a better way to do things is the
most respectful thing you can do to a culture// which
speaks to the same point. What you're offering them is an
_American's idea_ of the better way to do things, which is
not the only better way to do things.//
||So let them decide, not us. (for the sixth time) We should
have no say in their
internal affairs as long as it doesn't effect us. That being
said, throw them an interesting idea. If they like it, OK, if
not, that's OK too.
||//But what America "gives" to the rest of the world is not
technology or trousers; it's MTV and Wallmart jogging
pants; you're "giving"// ...life saving medicine... oh wait,
I'm not supposed to list advances in science, technology
and medicine if they're American. OK, fine, but nobody is
forced to watch MTV, wear jogging pants, which I don't
think we invented, or go to Walmart. That being said,
having the choices to wear jogging pants to Walmart
before you go home to eat bonbons while watching MTV is
something I'd like to have the choice of doing and I don't
mind other cultures having access to if they so choose. I
Walmart all the time. It's mostly lower socioeconomic
folks that go there but I'm OK with that. Used to be one
myself. Probably started a lot lower on the rung than
most of the people there.
||//but on American terms because you can't envisage
another way of life that's good.// Like climbing halfway a
mountain and freezing to death? Guess you've got me on
that one. You're wrong about my assuming there's one
good way to approach having a civilization. I've spoken
about how western diets are very bad for instance.
They're convenient, addicting and horrible for you. That
being said electricity is good. I've also given praise to
non-technological people like the Amish who chose to
stay away from some modern conveniences. That's great,
whatever works for them.
||//my buddy is developing an arsenic test-kit that will be
cheap and need no underlying technology or skills.//
Ohhh, I see. His way of approaching challenges to health
is so superior to their natural and customary way of
dealing with arsenic, that is dying from being poisoned
from it as is their custom?
Who's imparting western dogma on other cultures now?
Here, let me turn the sarcasm knob down to 11 for a sec.
See? It's OK to offer to help people, whether they're on
the other side of town or the other side of the globe,
|| //It's the well-intentioned inability to "get" it that is
the fundamental problem.// Well, I certainly don't "get"
what's wrong with helping
people test for arsenic in their water, or showing them
how to generate electricity to light their nights, or
vaccinate their children so they don't die horrible deaths.
So well, you've got me there. Guess I don't get it. Unless
the secret is not offering them things that offend Max,
like Walmart and jogging pants.
||Let me ask you this, say the idea was suggested, they
voted on it and it overwhelmingly passed. They did it and
loved it. Would that be a bad thing? I'm all about self
determination for all people, but me and you shouldn't be
pointing fingers and telling anybody what they should like
or shouldn't like. Even judging them for wearing jogging
pants at Walmart.
||Would you consider it a travesty if after they turned
Everest into an amusement park, they celebrated by
having an annual jogging pants day to celebrate?
||Now before you answer, realize you and I ARE engaged in
a heated argument about people in Nepal wearing jogging
pants. Just sayin'.
||Side note: your buddy is obviously a bad-ass dude for
by the way. The arsenic kit I mean.
||*sigh* Two cultures forever divided by a common language.
||I'm going to step out of this discussion since it's never going to
leave base camp. But I leave on a note of agreement: my
buddy is indeed a badass dude.
||OK, just don't tell him about my idea to turn Mount Everest
into a massive roller coaster park. I don't want him to steal
||I'm not telling a soul until I finish filing the patents.