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how much we don't know

Human atomic elemental weights against modeled molecules
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In theory, every atom in the human body could be accounted for.

Knowing the elemental composition and overall mass gives us amounts of each element. As we work out molecular models of the molecules of in the human body and their amounts, they can be ticked off the elemental stocktake. Crystalline and fabric materials such as bone and cell walls have to be modeled, quantified. Respiratory gases, although transitory should not be too much of a problem.

Gut fauna and biological interlopers would pose big accuracy deficiency. But continual research in these areas will keep supplying data.

If the count is done in a patchwork fashion, the only way it can be done, then areas that are not known, will have big discrepancies between modeled molecular numbers and elements weighed.

Stoichiometry is well and truly an rock solid tool in science but with supercomputer modeling and statistical analysis, can it be taken to a whole new level to show us where the unknowns are hiding.

wjt, Apr 09 2017

P prime prime https://en.wikipedi...P%E2%80%B2%E2%80%B2
the reference [Ian Tindale] attempted to make, which caused his cephalic and colonic content to blend & vent [lurch, Apr 16 2017]

[link]






       OK, so this is not about quantitative epistemology, but rather about ... um ...   

       Are your bathroom scales broken?
pertinax, Apr 09 2017
  

       Are you proposing to analyze the chemical composition of the human body solely by measuring its mass to extreme accuracy and precision?
notexactly, Apr 09 2017
  

       In patchwork, Yes. As a reference for all those molecular pathway models in the computer. Large mass discrepancy = something unknown, something to be investigated.
wjt, Apr 10 2017
  

       Ultimately all models are collectively communal, or so say the searching equational centric physicists.
wjt, Apr 10 2017
  

       //something unknown//   

       ... or possibly a doughnut.
pertinax, Apr 10 2017
  

       It'll be somebody's body but not everybody's body: like the genome project was just really one person's DNA wasn't it? and just a snapshot, I'm pretty sure my the atoms will have mostly moved on down the sewer within a few years and then been picked by an Albanian in a mushroom farm and sold to you wtj. Still, useful information to gather. I'd like to see where I end up
DDRopDeadly, Apr 13 2017
  

       //the genome project was just really one person's DNA wasn't it? // Actually it wasn't. The first "complete" (except it wasn't, really) human genome reference sequence was an amalgam of cloned fragments from multiple individuals.
MaxwellBuchanan, Apr 13 2017
  

       Thanks for the correction MB.. I wonder if that amalgam person will ever be born
DDRopDeadly, Apr 14 2017
  

       Well, one person in 2^30000, roughly, should be that amalgam. Sadly that's -E- on my calculator.
MaxwellBuchanan, Apr 14 2017
  

       You might like looking at all the chemicals at a spectroscopy plot. The height of each chemical, as well as the area under each chemical's "curve" speak to what you are asking.   

       Also, nuclear magnetic resonance imaging NMR (related to MRI) could be improved to detect more kinds of atoms more effectively.   

       Also, pragmatically, if you are willing to use rats or pigs as model experimental animals their individual organs can be connected to something like a heart-lung pumping and oxygenating and nutrient machine permitting ultra high resolution scanning of something the size of say a heart or a gland or a brain for elemental and molecular composition
beanangel, Apr 14 2017
  

       /'envelope' or 'convex hull'/ Made up of a collection of areas of focused interest.   

       [Max] Wouldn't the random stuff between genes mess with that calculation?
wjt, Apr 15 2017
  

       // The 'envelope' or 'convex hull'. That's what that'd be called. //   

       That would hide the valleys in the spectrogram, which are just as important as the peaks.
notexactly, Apr 15 2017
  

       // 2^30000 //   

       My computer was not willing to calculate that either, but Wolfram|Alpha was:   

       ~7.94*10^9030   

       7 940 903 519 132 960 324 132 517 843 492 702 513 993 728 125 208 692 855 608 343 385 791 937 317 443 908 783 509 203 179 530 892 191 987 155 926 623 978 283 105 489 921 384 424 923 263 573 391 363 734 522 382 231 742 028 063 376 725 759 936 388 639 366 060 309 563 838 895 747 548 705 834 901 470 733 791 335 653 266 902 911 839 098 782 447 109 218 743 196 966 760 157 998 340 228 043 734 553 776 187 051 118 620 709 439 579 947 093 508 401 401 631 712 073 916 879 445 638 849 346 437 187 368 000 288 168 434 884 333 847 925 762 236 847 628 855 418 907 650 698 624 898 277 065 152 326 488 047 315 941 120 701 839 655 677 173 867 549 336 208 651 066 198 963 223 290 589 867 846 485 132 811 671 585 188 249 558 469 966 534 679 356 622 663 014 517 463 255 220 325 474 870 240 326 369 687 171 527 575 053 114 352 298 945 393 524 403 254 488 026 713 532 705 619 878 245 336 270 252 062 774 783 554 202 422 698 010 972 274 190 731 058 780 728 665 028 820 297 377 514 920 071 911 925 316 084 153 056 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488 701 020 981 223 217 638 134 870 238 330 785 987 777 362 107 900 870 220 566 117 625 369 732 484 685 079 573 905 971 412 010 869 204 851 929 675 105 202 526 462 440 450 843 331 477 591 337 504 677 466 560 247 802 932 519 058 064 669 736 932 026 506 218 065 518 053 804 099 470 058 672 554 881 957 334 239 171 945 470 128 328 111 118 154 219 248 709 276 771 964 468 934 141 432 065 279 835 956 804 758 479 020 506 175 634 676 314 795 774 377 756 781 619 147 787 644 127 864 326 395 955 719 541 635 424 625 005 330 931 654 336 931 776 693 662 159 112 848 110 480 538 382 283 610 794 193 466 885 074 933 882 258 128 230 814 880 496 958 689 388 480 616 019 325 410 776 127 163 363 865 400 356 822 111 134 438 394 432 428 391 432 135 839 292 661 553 803 106 862 931 835 006 288 173 627 261 324 100 173 990 865 286 349 533 830 063 091 557 567 956 830 696 284 020 826 665 435 848 602 925 945 339 374 112 474 445 787 390 743 846 224 660 527 423 380 047 536 181 832 382 852 749 004 482 639 132 488 012 423 772 632 872 567 611 837 956 509 727 738 665 319 125 833 435 486 837 183 884 662 511 338 560 958 654 837 653 843 605 981 267 354 569 271 666 682 256 876 436 360 004 085 720 878 438 365 292 520 427 632 066 423 329 003 200 404 292 501 117 164 412 280 016 866 913 720 423 748 205 122 496 830 626 503 634 357 509 731 013 181 992 464 259 628 431 617 164 036 515 488 291 676 782 170 317 826 525 643 681 591 655 990 081 992 152 832 281 532 788 807 385 136 544 281 343 581 225 957 439 747 570 626 419 144 498 020 442 835 012 520 333 597 010 650 792 505 163 588 284 469 813 745 780 712 765 859 388 127 933 246 124 890 834 158 661 340 828 624 389 473 858 924 747 755 262 424 780 692 268 948 813 094 438 604 009 655 040 806 473 697 307 373 869 826 808 819 809 241 641 401 202 736 133 330 433 499 401 052 488 323 809 427 280 113 231 657 969 181 497 898 455 075 395 595 987 717 599 255 810 574 111 896 611 381 295 446 449 094 360 605 719 953 456 587 602 255 949 355 196 532 488 359 097 463 064 531 159 681 099 827 588 754 339 376 178 603 572 206 993 104 116 724 005 865 677 519 296 398 159 948 715 473 178 534 023 839 748 776 968 930 959 359 430 050 467 682 338 953 460 003 719 728 316 579 187 691 878 697 698 768 262 029 532 555 154 453 385 626 292 655 405 747 586 784 964 721 828 435 123 748 874 036 892 336 467 993 833 313 566 351 099 012 062 133 708 330 659 839 945 835 334 408 003 540 883 710 466 685 587 003 017 166 599 283 017 074 947 301 584 414 988 865 004 786 028 293 285 499 770 491 180 405 306 064 801 835 537 732 617 278 174 051 627 839 185 610 787 636 744 236 037 208 733 359 089 934 980 863 639 140 305 262 357 999 304 049 578 253 805 867 435 072 383 872 118 239 392 509 532 576 937 965 747 681 037 411 189 244 456 427 767 218 969 226 659 923 736 338 685 936 365 229 374 852 506 760 977 484 949 718 096 704 779 139 202 025 385 886 007 539 531 005 659 537 317 072 283 913 313 695 763 253 184 409 898 181 120 428 466 758 352 325 450 311 576 982 995 045 335 286 929 880 973 682 790 673 015 037 574 198 678 081 581 095 988 135 833 790 694 215 909
notexactly, Apr 15 2017
  

       // Wouldn't the random stuff between genes mess with that calculation?// No, it's all just DNA. That's why DNA is so fantastically cool - everything is just a bitstream. When you die of cancer, it's a bitstream. If you have your father's nose or your mother's beard, it's a bitstream. If you're not an elm, it's a bitstream. If you get Ebloa, it's a bitstream. DNA does for biology what computers do for photos, music, 3D models and pornography.
MaxwellBuchanan, Apr 15 2017
  

       So have I got this right? On the transcripted strand each position has four posibilities so that 4 x 4 x 4 x 4 .. for however many base pairs there are in the Human genome. - the areas that have to be the same to make us human creatures + the available variance of those areas.All summing to 2 ^30000 approx.
wjt, Apr 15 2017
  

       //So have I got this right?// Not as such, alas. In fact, my 2^30000 was a vague sort of guesstimate, based on the assumption that haplotype blocks (chunks of human DNA that tend to remain intact during recombination across many generations) are about 100kb long, hence 30,000 of them in the genome; and suppose there are a couple of common haplotypes for each one.   

       Then again, I didn't reckon on the fact that humans are mostly diploid, so it's more than that.
MaxwellBuchanan, Apr 16 2017
  

       [Ian] Do you have an under the sea, Jules Verne-ish problem with your computer?
wjt, Apr 16 2017
  

       [MaxwellB] Even two individuals with equal zygote DNA could be told apart by their pockets' of mutations as age takes hold on cell divisions. The body can't repair that perfectly, surely.   

       Then again, that is on the otherside of the zygote . My statement is two adult individuals can't have the exactly same makeup of DNA. Too much complexity.
wjt, Apr 16 2017
  

       I just realized that that great big number I posted the other day is odd, while claiming to be a power of two. It's also only 9029 digits long, not 9031 (according to: echo "[the number]" | sed "s/ //g" | wc). I think I would have noticed if I had dropped two at the end, given that I processed it with Python to add the spaces, and had to adjust my code to get the spaces in the right place relative to the end of the number. Therefore I blame W|A for giving me the wrong answer.
notexactly, Apr 17 2017
  

       //Even to zygote DNA equals could be told apart by their pockets of mutations as age takes hold on cell divisions. // I have very little idea what that sentence means but, yes. No two cells in your body have the same genome. The next revolution in genomics will appreciate this. The 50%+ of "genetic" disorders which don't appear to be inherited will come down to somatic variation. If you want an independent confirnation of this, I strongly suggest that you ask me again, when sober.   

       //two adult individuals can't have the exactly same makeup of DNA.// Well,yes, although I would subsitute "one" for "two".
MaxwellBuchanan, Apr 17 2017
  

       A zygote base line DNA reading is almost needed to see changes. That or a multi-point DNA biopsy with a full sequencing.
wjt, Apr 18 2017
  

       At MaxCo, we are pioneering Whole Body Sequencing. With something like a kilo of DNA to start with, even Nanopore sequencing might give some useful data.
MaxwellBuchanan, Apr 18 2017
  

       The person gets up and walks away, right?
wjt, Apr 20 2017
  

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162 480 126 388 256 580 805 608 668 574 098 316 652 608 084 771 381 953 279 181 807 157 124 713 495 613 535 424 964 215 087 630 579 096 416 669 412 630 963 986 266 552 255 718 328 160 093 117 171 637 176 650 461 295 905 567 798 132 566 281 830 354 760 366 845 352 847 955 988 129 319 896 463 854 644 608 371 823 052 534 475 141 787 679 872 786 514 159 114 921 739 708 002 617 255 270 132 388 918 811 410 977 435 895 396 248 451 768 654 187 319 563 238 686 283 969 523 236 598 937 575 074 075 134 832 047 015 519 967 296 117 865 059 672 408 654 143 498 300 165 797 510 261 969 248 336 086 014 507 694 880 004 991 778 986 415 235 204 301 660 350 334 495 307 361 712 887 960 284 632 677 139 787 048 917 393 643 287 459 305 474 248 980 105 673 159 828 131 668 823 017 101 082 986 585 062 392 365 948 205 090 959 113 071 881 041 827 910 955 350 953 704 544 370 610 472 951 070 584 567 122 153 134 386 488 507 931 897 347 896 476 243 074 931 121 650 906 482 288 868 176 150 253 025 211 895 156 520 637 042 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870 774 436 583 319 125 031 316 426 803 072 026 069 142 645 544 005 733 014 128 831 146 765 979 494 598 139 825 459 105 864 907 583 965 881 882 621 065 226 983 702 618 061 228 442 756 431 769 122 964 613 617 375 193 603 363 395 778 677 616 863 258 776 074 909 714 481 159 472 483 656 638 636 883 905 929 561 817 009 023 225 704 494 931 649 580 244 483 067 442 895 448 116 590 200 567 862 439 843 508 757 338 874 305 666 064 020 338 586 615 494 230 869 950 377 610 901 426 952 558 555 290 754 646 731 084 712 315 377 291 685 221 486 683 802 783 173 117 977 276 188 840 040 275 281 110 684 283 769 640 407 214 107 271 547 786 283 887 632 689 107 752 753 390 160 523 083 386 097 747 662 361 270 177 689 418 705 527 656 522 586 458 191 862 673 847 072 061 569 739 104 492 290 520 198 683 038 902 176 982 310 753 849 809 395 320 886 639 517 634 536 158 200 806 471 259 521 049 539 727 943 187 963 197 268 440 224 844 191 407 585 128 461 076 820 807 297 787 167 383 627 575 728 041 411 301 362 585 409 493 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588 754 339 376 178 603 572 206 993 104 116 724 005 865 677 519 296 398 159 948 715 473 178 534 023 839 748 776 968 930 959 359 430 050 467 682 338 953 460 003 719 728 316 579 187 691 878 697 698 768 262 029 532 555 154 453 385 626 292 655 405 747 586 784 964 721 828 435 123 748 874 036 892 336 467 993 833 313 566 351 099 012 062 133 708 330 659 839 945 835 334 408 003 540 883 710 466 685 587 003 017 166 599 283 017 074 947 301 584 414 988 865 004 786 028 293 285 499 770 491 180 405 306 064 801 835 537 732 617 278 174 051 627 839 185 610 787 636 744 236 037 208 733 359 089 934 980 863 639 140 305 262 357 999 304 049 578 253 805 867 435 072 383 872 118 239 392 509 532 576 937 965 747 681 037 411 189 244 456 427 767 218 969 226 659 923 736 338 685 936 365 229 374 852 506 760 977 484 949 718 096 704 779 139 202 025 385 886 007 539 531 005 659 537 317 072 283 913 313 695 763 253 184 409 898 181 120 428 466 758 352 325 450 311 576 982 995 045 335 286 929 880 973 682 790 673 015 037 574 198 678 081 581 095 988 135 833 790 694 215 909   

       You quite sure about that 812?
not_morrison_rm, Apr 20 2017
  

       Where's Wally without a wally. I was disappointed.
wjt, Apr 20 2017
  
      
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