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65 Defense

Dime Cover 0, with Blitz
  (+8, -4)
(+8, -4)
  [vote for,

I know this is a culturally specific Idea and is possibly only interesting to followers of the sport, but I'll try and define things so that someone vaguely familiar can follow along. (If you already know most of that stuff, I have put a line of asterixs in for you to skip down to).

Basics: In American football, 6 of 11 players on offense are allowed to touch the ball (odd exceptions exist where more can, but are rarely used).

Various alignments of players are used by coaches to try and match up stronger players against weaker players and one of them that is in vogue right now is called the Spread Offense.

The Spread Offense basically spreads 4 or 5 of the eligible (allowed to touch the ball) players acrossed the width of the field in order to get 1 on 1 coverage match ups and allow the offensive players to make plays in open space. If the defense aligns incorrectly, it is usually exploited.

The fact that the skill players are in open space has lately made this a difficult offense to defend.

On the Defense, the Dime package indicates 6 players responsible for covering the offensive skill players (leaving only 5 players assigned to get to the ball where it currently is). It is usually used when the offense is expected to have most of it's skill players attempting to receive a long pass.

There are also terms like Cover 2, Cover 1, and Cover 0 which indicate a defense where defenders are not assigned a player to cover, but instead cover areas of the field and help the players with assignments in coverage to prevent long down field pass completions. Cover 2 indicates 2 defenders, 1 = 1, and 0 indicates there is no help. Cover 0 is risky because with enough time, even the best defenders can be beaten.

A Blitz is also risky, but can be rewarding. It involves a player whom the offense thinks has a coverage responsibility not being responsible for coverage, but instead running with abandoned trying to tackle the person with the ball.

I will try and show some of this graphically:

(x)___________0 0 [] 0 0______________(x)

The graphic I made indicates a common alignment for a spread offense. The (x) players are eligible to receive the ball, either by it being pitched forward, backward, or handed to them. The (X) indicates the quarterback who usually does the distribution and the (x) to his right is a running back who often is handed the ball and runs through or around the big guys on defense. The [] player is the person who starts the play by pushing the ball backwards to the quarterback and the "o" players job is to try and prevent defenders from getting to the person with the ball - they are the Big Guys.

A defense typically would look like:





(I know, I drew a more standard type Offense, but the typical defensive alignment are probably better shown that way).

The (L) players are Big Guys who try to get to where the ball is as fast as they can. They have specific names, but I just used (L) for Lineman to simplify.

The (LB) players (Linebackers) are pretty Big, but more manuverable and follow where the players with the ball are going trying to prevent them from gaining yards.

The (C) players (Corners) are usually assigned to cover the offensive skill players, but in some cases they cover an area instead.

The (S) players (Safeties) are usually assigned to cover an area and are the last resort for the defense if the offensive player with the ball gets through or around the Line & Linebackers.


My Idea to stop the Spread offense is a Dime Cover 0 with one or two blitzers - usually 2.


The C,S,& C3/C4 (Corner and Safty) are in man to man coverage on both sides of the formation. The extra Corners are not there to cover and will Blitz except in a certain situation.

If the offense's Tackles (the Linemen furthest away from the Center) jump out ignoring the Defensive Ends (DE), the DE is to Blitz and the extra Corners are to pick up the End's lane assignment.

If the Tackles block they end, I figure the quarterback has a maximum of 1.5 seconds to get the snapped ball, decide where to throw the ball, and execute the decision. This is not very much time to do this and also not enough time for receivers to get open.

I figure that in most cases, the Running back will be forced to block one of the blitzing corners and that's ok with me as it takes him out of the play as a receiver and I still have one unblocked blitzer. In the event he does not block, but instead runs out of the backfield to get open, I have the single Linebacker there to shadow him.

The Defensive linemen in this scheme are not to pass rush! They are to acheive contact with their offensive counterparts and maintain a presence in that position to make quick runs in the middle of the field a losing proposition - due to the Linebacker in the middle, narrow running lanes and the blitzing corners coming from behind.

The only solution to the defense, as I see it, is a quarterback draw right up the middle behind the center directly after the snap. In the event that this play starts becoming successfull, I figure Interior Defensive Line shifts will present difficulties for even this and if not, One of those blitzing cornerbacks can be on a delayed blitz - first reading for the QB Draw.

I'm curious if anyone can find any huge flaws in this defense. (Thanks).

Zimmy, Feb 28 2008

spread offense forum http://www.spreadof...e6JECFRuDIgodbkfhWw
[jaksplat, Feb 29 2008]

How inferior is NFL-style football? http://en.wikipedia...d_American_football
Wikipedia's take on it. [Canuck, Feb 29 2008]

4-1-6 http://www.scribd.c...20/416-Dime-Defense
I've seen it used to double cover receivers. [jaksplat, Sep 12 2010]


       I'm had some difficulty with making the text pictures work. I guess everyone can see, I'm no HTML guru.   

       I'm sorry about all the underscores I put in to make things line up properly, but I couldn't think of any other way to do it. (unless I used periods, hmmm.)
Zimmy, Feb 28 2008

       This is (simply put) a 2-DB blitz with a single spy (the LB).   

       You are right that this defense will be killed if anyone figures out how to clone a Michael Vick (without the whole dog-murdering parts). A quick QB will exploit huge running holes if he can read it fast and get past the open blitzer.   

       Nice play, though, I think. Try it with Madden '08 against Indy. Peyton knows how to move in the pocket, but he isn't exactly a "running" QB, so you might be able to do it if your CBs can stay with Harrison and Wayne.
globaltourniquet, Feb 28 2008

       To be honest, I don't think there should be huge running holes. The Defensive ends & tackles are basically not rushing the passer, but instead occupying the Offensive Tackles and guards, maintaining a position in the running lane (sort of blocking the offensive linemen, preventing them from opening a running lane).   

       That only leaves the outside of the field to run in, or directly up the middle. The middle, I'm hoping can be shut down by the inside arm of the defensive tackles - at least enough to slow the runner down.   

       With 5 blocking linemen, there are 4 inside gaps and I have dedicated 4 people to those gaps even though one guy might get a double team.   

       All 4 defensive backs - I think will be playing in a back pedal and should be looking at the quarterback in their periferal vision - so I think they can break off their coverage if they read a Definate quarterback run.   

       If the both unblocked blitzers miss the tackle (or should the RB block one - THE unblocked blitzer), the entire defense is stuck in a man to man coverage until the player who missed the tackle can get back to the quarterback - which is bad, but hopefully not the end of the world.   

       All that said, I'm surprised I got a negative vote, but I guess someone thinks it won't work. I hope to get a chance to see if it does some day in youth football.
Zimmy, Feb 28 2008

       My knowledge of Am. football is pretty thin... and I don't have time to really read the idea, but (+) for the concept and explanation [Zimmy].
Jinbish, Feb 28 2008

       (+) simply for the efforts to explain in understandable detail.
normzone, Feb 28 2008

       The main flaw I see is that a good receiver will score against single coverage eventually, especially if the QB throws well or is a run threat while rolling out of the pocket.
jaksplat, Feb 29 2008

       Switch to Canadian Football rules and play a much more exciting, entertaining game - 12 players per side, 110-yard field which is 65 yards wide, 3 downs, unlimited motion on offense. (link-o)   

       Oh, and our balls are bigger. Or at least they used to be until we switched to Wilson from Spalding.
Canuck, Feb 29 2008

       ... and let's see a soccer fan talk in this much detail about anything in his "sport".   

       Thank you from me, also, Zimmy, for the clear demonstration of why American Football is beloved here for its strategic intricacies at the coaching level.
globaltourniquet, Feb 29 2008

       We've had these for years in England.
MaxwellBuchanan, Mar 01 2008

       Touce - Max.B ... Perchance the Europeans would make peace with the beauty of the forward pass?
Zimmy, Aug 16 2008

       Jaksplat- there will be no rolling out of the pocket. I have two unblocked defenders coming in from either perimeter at full speed. With only 1 back to block, the only roll out that's going to happen is if the QB can Elway himself out of getting mack trucked. In that case, my defense is in trouble for a couple of seconds.
Zimmy, Jul 09 2010

       Why would both defenders be unblocked? The running back could pick up one of them if the QB needed to get outside to that side. Also sending 2 blitzing DBs into the offensive back field leaves you open to a quick screen pass.
jaksplat, Jul 09 2010

       You got my [+], not because I think it's a good idea - I don't have a clue, and I've read it several times. Most 'sports' seem to be a set of rules designed to impede natural acheivement, with American football seeming to have more rules than many, and so leaves me cold, but for the sheer volume of words and diagrams evidencing the amount of effort you've put into it
Tulaine, Jul 09 2010

       -"why would both defenders be unblocked - the running back would pick up one"   

       YOU are correct, Sir!   

       And thus dies the Spread.
Zimmy, Aug 29 2010

       Something I read on the net today leads me to believe that this is not an original idea, though, aspects of it are.   

       Gap 8 is the name of it, though if I understand Gap 8, it's far less aggressive.
Zimmy, Sep 12 2010

       I think I just saw Wisconsin run this defense against Nebraska. QB sack with a fumble recovered by Wisconsin.
Zimmy, Sep 30 2012

       An audible calling a QB-draw to play action with two or more receivers attracting as much attention as possible inside the down would stand a chance against this. In addition, this seems like one of those plays that would only work once. After everyone's seen it, you have to change it up or the QB will take the snap and either draw or bullet- pass for three or four yards every time.
Alterother, Sep 30 2012

       I think Frank Beamer just used this against my own favorite team. I feel ill.
Zimmy, Sep 08 2014

       The description is out of my league too, but...   

       Wouldn't the formation be broadcasting blitz? Could the offense put in two tight ends, or maybe just a tight formation of receivers to block and/or take a step and beat a defensive end to the catch?   

       Also, it's probably a matter of nomenclature, but aren't safeties usually faster?
4and20, Sep 08 2014

       This is a bit like the Houseman's defence in the Aloysian Roof Game, is it not? Though, of course, the ARG has tight rears where American football has defensive ends.
MaxwellBuchanan, Sep 08 2014

       San Diego Chargers season opener tonight in Arizona vs the Cardinals...I don't think the pope will attend though.
normzone, Sep 08 2014

       Well, that was fun, but not victoriuos...vic tor.l..never mind.
normzone, Sep 09 2014

       Many of you will be happy to hear that I tried this formation in a very old version of Madden football. The formation stops virtually every running play, but man coverage is simply too weak for passing plays. This is true even when I replaced the blitzing CBs with faster safeties. This is not real football of course. In real football, only 1/3 of them have head injuries.
4and20, Sep 15 2014

       I now understand this defense can't contain a good triple option team. The 722 can
Zimmy, Sep 14 2017

       Isn't it American Football where they've just realized that all the players end up with brain injury?
MaxwellBuchanan, Sep 14 2017

       ive never watched footbal but those guys must be geniuses to follow all of this stuff.
bob, Sep 23 2017

       I was hoping your idea was to put 65 players on the defense, and 65 on the offense and really turn football into sometime exciting - a mob on mob battle for the ball. That would be something to see.
danrue, Oct 10 2017


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