Half a croissant, on a plate, with a sign in front of it saying '50c'
h a l f b a k e r y
carpe demi

idea: add, search, annotate, link, view, overview, recent, by name, random

meta: news, help, about, links, report a problem

account: browse anonymously, or get an account and write.



Baby AI Creche

Take a gaming agent bolt on a chat bot & release in an MMO
  [vote for,

I really would like to see someone at least try to develop some AI worth calling AI for a change.

Deep Mind is being (or has been?) set loose on Blizzards StarCraft but if you really want to develop something marginally convincing the limitations even in that game are just too big, plus it won't talk or bargain with opponents (no call for it in that game) so no matter how good it is it won't really feel any different to all the crappy AI already out there.

What I think would be interesting is a game agent that talks but it's not something anyone seems to have even started on.

Everything out there seems to be a pure chatbot (pointless, how are you supposed to develop AI with no reference points, seems like trying to swim in a vacuum to me) or a pure game agent that doesn't communicate (outside of entirely scripted conversations)

Lets apply reinforcement learning & neural nets to a chatbot in an environment that actually provides some meaningful context & consequences for it's conversations.

Actually give it a purpose other than inane pointless chatter about how wonderfully circular my (your, if it's you talking to it) own navel is.

Drop that in a nice large well populated open world MMO like WOW or EVE & give it a bit of time & lets see what we get.

EDIT: added a few links.

These really seem to be the extent of anyone's real ambitions in this area (that I can find anyway).

Communication doesn't enter the mix at all (as far as I can see).

I've not bothered with any links for traditional "chatbots" as they've really not changed since Alan had a bash at it (people have just added more words to spreadsheets, which isn't progress) & frankly the idea those things have anything to do with AI is pitiful.

Skewed, Feb 20 2018

DeepMind, Blizzard & StarCraft II https://deepmind.co...search-environment/
[Skewed, Feb 22 2018]

Gaming Agents https://www.analyti...learning-platforms/
[Skewed, Feb 22 2018]

A Unity Blog https://blogs.unity...-a-beginners-guide/
[Skewed, Feb 22 2018]

Sexy Terminator Bot http://c8.alamy.com...les-2008-BPWM94.jpg
[Skewed, Feb 24 2018]

Sexy Robots https://www.google....280&bih=653#imgrc=_
Well, it's what bigsleep asked for. [Skewed, Feb 24 2018]



       weapons dealers that say "hmmm... have you considered our <x> ? It'd give you a better rate of fire than what you've currently got, and ammo is more available in this region"   

       insiders that snitch on other players' activities... for a fee.
FlyingToaster, Feb 20 2018

       ^ Or to quote my favourite game: "If you shop anywhere else, I'll have you killed"
neutrinos_shadow, Feb 20 2018

       Yup, I was thinking more along the lines of an artificial player than a game NPC though.   

       If we could get it to a point where it can convince others it's someones seven year old son who's got into their game account that they're playing with (or against) & talking to that would be a huge success in my book.
Skewed, Feb 20 2018

       // "If you shop anywhere else, I'll have you killed" //   

       Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range ?
8th of 7, Feb 21 2018

       "And how does getting fragged for the 30th time by the f'ing computer make you feel?"   

       "I might be ELIZA but you are definitely the E-Loser!"
RayfordSteele, Feb 21 2018

       //reinforcement learning & neural nets// Are these nets going to be sophisticated enough to mesh incoming chatter and sense of the MMO with it's own self-built internal model of the MMO? I doubt this.   

       Tiny humans have the gear set up and primed to do this consciousness forming engineering. For computers the skeleton process hasn't been siliconed yet. We are hoping it will just magically appear on our time scale rather than evolution's eternity.
wjt, Feb 23 2018

       //We are hoping it will just magically appear//   

       No, we are not.   

       We are proposing using the player driven activity of an MMO environment to train a neural net in the normal tried tested & proved manner & including chat among the inputs & outputs alongside character health & wealth.   

       //on our time scale rather than evolution's eternity.//   

       I never said it would be fast.   

       That said I don't think it's unreasonable to hope for "some" modestly pleasing results within a reasonable time-frame.   

       //consciousness forming engineering//   

       I don't expect that.   

       I would hope for a more persuasive illusion of same than we currently have however, eventually.
Skewed, Feb 24 2018

       //What kind of bot are you trying to make ? One that could chip up a self-driving car with a mini-gun to drive into NY ?//   

       This of course is why an MMO would make such a good AI creche.   

       The ones that ended up doing that can just be deleted, no harm no foul (bar a few exploded pixels & vaguely annoyed players who "owned" the aforementioned pixels, before they got exploded), then you can go back to the drawing board, redesign your reward set & start again.   

       Unless you want one to go reduce the population of NY of course.   

       //What kind of bot are you trying to make ?//   

       Whatever kind you want to.   

       Me I'd like one that gave the "appearance" of a having a veneer of intelligence, not for any particular reason, just for the hell of it.
Skewed, Feb 24 2018

       I think my "someone with the hots for Summer Glau circa 2009" circuits have just been tripped [linky].   

       That's probably more to do with the hardware than the software though (discounting your own software of course).
Skewed, Feb 24 2018

       It seems there's a more than a few people beavering away on that for you right now Biggy [link] so you may not have too long to wait ;p
Skewed, Feb 24 2018

       //Tiny humans have the gear set up//   

       Isn't that just for helping shoemakers?
pertinax, Feb 24 2018

       What makes you think that's not precisely the world that we live in?   

       Probabilistically, it's a great deal more likely that we're products of a simulation, than that we're the original product of some unusual secret combination of natural laws and constants, in which case, this idea is very likely baked. The purpose of such a simulation may well be to develop strong AI-like behaviours, or even to determine what ingredients you need in order for them to develop, and how they will grow, in order to save a great deal of time and unnecessary armageddeen should you brew one of the tricky ones by mistake.
zen_tom, Feb 26 2018

       // it's a great deal more likely that we're products of a simulation, //   


       Bugger, that one's noticed. Shut it down quick before the others catch on.   

8th of 7, Feb 26 2018

       The ebb and flow of the physical nature has to build the simulation for consciousness mechanics to bootstrap from. There always has to be hardware, a something.
wjt, Feb 27 2018

       It sure gets crowded here inside Ian's head.
RayfordSteele, Feb 27 2018

       The White King can hardly turn around in here.
pertinax, Feb 27 2018

       What are all those purple jelly things, the ones with the tassels ? Where do the chocolate sprinkles come out ? Why is that pneumatic dromedary eating a brass zoetrope ?   

       <looks around further>   

       [IT], isn't it time you had a tidy up in here ? There's all sorts of useless rubbish piled up. It would be much nicer if you had a good clear out, maybe got some professional decorators in, had the place redone ? The Feng Shui is just awful at the moment ...   

       Tell you what, we'll make you an offer on that dirty old oil lamp in the corner. What if we take it away and you can have this nice bright shiny new one ?
8th of 7, Feb 27 2018

       //pneumatic dromedary//   

       If (like me) you've read Brave New World, some of Huxley's other stuff or much at all of some of his contemporaries work the word pneumatic (especially when seen in print) begins to take on a whole new (& somewhat specific) meaning..   

       One in which "pneumatic dromedary" causes me to wonder about your, um, "interests".   

       For brass zoetrope (perhaps fortunately) I have nothing.
Skewed, Mar 02 2018

       // "pneumatic dromedary" causes me to wonder about your, um, "interests" //   

       It's not our interest... this is all happening inside [IT]'s head, not ours. He's the one who's mind is packed edge to edge with Really Weird Shit.   

       Not our fault. And he obviously has read Huxley because, well ... just look around.
8th of 7, Mar 02 2018

       Oh yes. That would be a stack of antic hay. With a needle in it.
pertinax, Mar 02 2018

       Oh that is a nice reference (especially for the bakery), Theodore Gumbril & his trousers :)   

       Gotta ask, has anyone plagiarized that one in here yet, & did they get caught or did it slip under the radar?   

       Disclaimer: not one I have read, but it rang some alarms as a title so I googled.
Skewed, Mar 02 2018

       // it rang some alarms //   

       Presumably a crome yellow light came on, too ?
8th of 7, Mar 02 2018

       Nope, but those purple jelly things over there started waving their tassels in the air..   

       So I presumed [IT]'s subconscious was trying to tell me something.
Skewed, Mar 02 2018

       //The conscious bit is tiny and hardly worth bothering about//   

       But (perhaps perversely, or not) being the only bit you're aware of it's the only bit you can bother about.
Skewed, Mar 02 2018

       We disagree - it's possible to be bothered about things that you're not actually conscious of. It's the standard low-level existential angst that all humans experience - that odd unhappy feeling that something's wrong, and you've missed something really important, but you can't quite work out what ...   

       Whatever it is, it's probably over there round the back of that double size wire frame model of the Great Pyramid of Giza made from frozen lobster antennae, but if you go and look it will have moved.   

       Try to persuade [IT] to get rid of some of this clutter, will you ?
8th of 7, Mar 02 2018

       //that odd unhappy feeling that something's wrong, and you've missed something really important, but you can't quite work out what ...//   

       Oh that, that one's easy, it's always the gas you left on.
Skewed, Mar 02 2018


back: main index

business  computer  culture  fashion  food  halfbakery  home  other  product  public  science  sport  vehicle