h a l f b a k e r yAsk your doctor if the Halfbakery is right for you.
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Jim decided to solve the problem of getting off of the
surface of Mars once he is first to land.
The solution is to take two Lander modules. Jim calls
them
the Eight Ball Lander and the Billiard Ball (Secondary
Lander).
Jim uses the Eight Ball Lander to descend to the surface
of
Mars
to take a look around. After planting a flag he
jumps
back into the Eight Ball and lines up the Billiard Ball in
the
space module.
Jim releases the Billiard Lander module and starts the
journey back to Earth.
<edit>
Luckily for Jim and with the aid of the practically
patented
halfbakery
development process the Eight Ball comes equipped
with inelastic impact dampening technology. This
enhancement mitigates the impact and resulting
acceleration the Billiard Ball delivers.
Rather than meet the Eight Ball at a dead stop the
impact is delayed via translation along the required
trajectory.
And behold the Eight Ball *vanishes" somewhat
ponderously
</edit>
Well done Jim!
[link]
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Not sure I understand the object here. |
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Does Jim's lander sit on a giant teeter-totter?\ |
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Does Jim then spend the rest of his very short life being
smeared against the inside of the lander? |
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While I can see the advantage of a teeter-totter... |
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Nope, the eight ball sits on the surface and the billiard
ball impacts it --- transferring the required impulse to
return the lander to the space module. |
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Whether Jim survives or not is another matter. It really
does depend on g and perhaps the big downy pillows Jim
might find. |
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For instance ... on a less massive object the impulse
might not be fatal. |
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The point is to explore other solutions to the recognized
'one way' or 'automated only' solutions currently
proposed. |
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It is known to be difficult to transfer all the gubbins
necessary to lift off of Mars. And a giant anything isn't
going to be possible. |
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Perhaps a flubber outer skin on each lander module? |
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Uh, [madness], you do realize that Mars's escape velocity is about 5km/s? So, if the impact lasts 100ms (which would require several hundred metres of padding), that's something like 5000G of acceleration. |
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You need to find a better friend - this Jim guy is a dick. |
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not to mention that wind resistance and terminal velocity on
the way down will remove sufficient energy that the target -
even if it absorbs and uses it all - will no longer have the
energy to regain the original height. Regardless of whether
the capsule is sitting on one end of a see-saw or is hit
horizontally like a giant Newton's Cradle. |
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A giant billiard ball is a ridiculous way to move a small sphere out
of the gravity well of Mars. What you need is a giant golf club,
probably a sand wedge. |
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I wonder if a pool ball has ever come to rest, between the barmaid's breasts? |
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All depends on how much screw is place on the white, I suppose. |
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Accepted where terminal velocity does not equal escape
velocity input energy is required. Believe it
or not --- if 'jumping' from far enough away (obviously)
terminal velocity equals escape velocity. And,
notwithstanding the aforementioned facts, given that the
escape velocity of the Earth is a bit larger than that of
Mars, the Billiard Ball can retain more than enough
energy for the task required of it. |
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Hmmm nice, in the immortal words of Hannibal, 'I love it
when a plan comes together'. |
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Elastic impulse --- now there is a trick to that. Several
hundred metres of padding won't do it as
MaxwellBuchanan suggests, probably indicating a
somewhat limited grasp of physics (and of the problem as
specified). Perhaps the
'Little Mooch' should read somewhat
more on the topic of 'elastic impulse' before Trump says
'your fired'... |
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I have always thought that the road runner did a good job
of pulling stuff along behind it. Whenever I have studied
the process it seems as if the faster the road runner goes
the more stuff he pulls along behind. |
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Perhaps the 'Little Mooch' (aka MaxwellBuchanan) not
having read enough of the physics text could satisfy the
requirements with a cartoon sesh.. |
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A deft application of Spidey web fluid might do the trick.
Rather than allowing the Billiard Lander to actual impact
the Eight Ball Lander a bolas like elastic link can be
employed to transfer the necessary kinetic energy. |
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Although I think it might be fun to see if the Mooch's fat
head can
transfer the energy required instead? |
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Now having just calculated the aforementioned details
including but not limited to the density of Maxwell
Buchanan's head, it occurs that all this stuff is actually
environmentally friendly too --- given that all the input
energy is not wasted trying to slow down to enter Mars
orbit.... |
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Your obliquity leads to a certain obscurity, but if I understand correctly, you are suggesting that I have a fat head (possibly true, but compared to what?) and that I should use it as a terminal impactor. I'm not sure how this would help matters. |
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Frankly, I don't understand why you're so adamant in defending this Jim person - he seems very much like what we in England are accustomed to referring to as "a bit of a twat". You'd probably be better off posting some of your own ideas - they're bound to be better. |
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Jim seems like the doppelganger of Bill on the Red
Green Show. |
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RayfordSteele! Wow what a long time between drinks
(well at least for me). |
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Anyway, 'Slapstick' ... it might be useful but I am not sure
that there is much point in developing that apparatus
when what really needs to be ironed out is the moment of
impact. Now I congratulate Maxwell for the offer of his
fat head but I also understand that data gained from that
apparatus will be insufficient to take this program
further. |
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Fair enough, I will bite [Maxwell Buchanan] (*chuckle*) |
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Lets propose a ball travelling between points A and B. We
accept that the path between these points is irrelevant
and a simple probability can be assigned to each of the
paths so long as the macro scale properties at each point
and time is maintained. |
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The Mooch has proposed that the 'moment' of impact
takes a finite amount of time, around 100 ms. The
question is when does this moment occur and how long
does it actually take. The universe is presumed to know --
- and that assumption is roughly 2500 years old. The
assumption
is also being *fat*idously maintained since the integral of
paths between
points A and B above was proposed and accepted within a
single lifetime. |
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More recently we have discovered that the assumption
regarding location and time may be uncertain. And
therefore the
assumption above regarding paths between points A and B
*may* be
disregarded at the macro scale. |
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Without imposing any new conditions on the given
problem, from point A an *uncertain* integral can be
formed for paths ending at a set of points B. And, given a
second ball the intersection of these integrals
calculates the moment of impact. |
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What is the benefit of disregarding a two and a half
thousand year old assumption about the passage of
objects between definite points A and B.
Well... its not useful to you as you have demonstrated. What might be useful is for each of you to being the
reading. You should start with Paramendies around 500BC
and begin your questioning with Feynmen ... |
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*make sure you have plenty of tuna* |
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As far as history records, paramedics in 500BC were pretty useless. In fact, there are absolutely _no_ survivors from those troubled times. |
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Besides, if you assume sufficient quantum delocalisation to make the impact survivable, you'll find that this idiot Jim is already, to some extent, in orbit. In fact, to some extent, he has never left Earth, and therefore the problem vanishes. |
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"sufficient quantum delocalisation" --- this reminds me of
the movie 'The men who stare at goats' based on the book
'The men who stare at goats'. |
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The take away from both of these works is that the
American government is prepared to pay big bucks !! |
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You're coming close. I suggest pushing the keys in slightly
different patterns, and hitting enter. |
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Maybe Jim could conduct an experiment, perhaps jumping out
of a U2 spyplane with a blu tack suit to determine how much
blu tack would be needed to survive. |
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If you disperse impact energy through a blob of blue tack, I don't
think you get it back later. |
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A giant see-saw might serve you better since, with enough flex, it
could translate deceleration on one side into acceleration on the
other with sufficient lag for the acceleration to be non-murderous.
Contact your supplier of unobtanium today. |
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// I don't think you get it back later. // |
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You don't; some of the energy is dissipated as heat, since the coefficient of restitution is less than 1 (not perfectly elastic). |
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If the coefficient is 1, or close to it, then the "pool ball" phenomenon does indeed operate, but the accelerations are huge. Single-celled organisms suspended in fluid might survive; eukaryotes would have no chance. |
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On the plus side, when he arrives home, Jim can exit his vehicle quickly via a tube; quite a small diameter one, though ... |
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I slept on it while Jim conducted the required
experiments... |
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As the Mooch suggested and you all have concurred there
is
pesky little time for Jim to escape. So in the absence of
the
unobtanium quantum mechanism hinted at by the men
who
stare at goats --- Jim will need to get the ball rolling
under his
own steam (at least a little bit in any case). |
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Given the edit above, lets suppose also that the Billiard
Ball carries Jill who
also wants to go to Mars. Given that Jim is leaving and Jill
is arriving it is possible to knock Jim out of orbit and land
Jill on the planet using slight less energy than is required
if they both have to employ traditional mechanisms. |
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Its all green for go now me thinks.... best inform the
media, start the crowd funding and get those Big Bucks !! |
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This idea made me imagine a pool game where you have to play while the balls are still moving. |
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Not surprising- after all, this idea is a lot of balls. |
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Exactly ... I think more than just eight - makes me think of
Orion (without the nuclear radiation). |
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Orion's a very crude, dirty concept, even if it does have high specific impulse. There are much better thermal nuclear propulsion designs around. |
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Why do you want to go to Mars, anyway ? It's a dump. Nothing much in the way of easily-accessible useful minerals, almost no free water, early closing Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, and quite frankly the TV is rubbish. |
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There are much more interesting places to go. |
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To be fair to Jim, this an idea for leaving Mars. |
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There's nothing wrong with leaving Mars. The error is going to Mars in the first place ... |
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