Half a croissant, on a plate, with a sign in front of it saying '50c'
h a l f b a k e r y
Bunned. James Bunned.

idea: add, search, annotate, link, view, overview, recent, by name, random

meta: news, help, about, links, report a problem

account: browse anonymously, or get an account and write.

user:
pass:
register,


               

H2O2+Fuel+Water Turbine

H2O2 turbine with boosting
  (+4)
(+4)
  [vote for,
against]

I'm sure many fo you are familar with:

http://www.meditech.ch/exoticthermoengineering/ete05.html

H2O2 Gas Turbine Go Kart

I didn't realize how incredibly potent H2O2 can be when decomposed out a turbine like that. INSANE. 1500HP from the tiniest little power plant. Problem is, the usage rate is a bit high, and all that wonderful pure left over oxygen goes to waste.

So take the exact same implementation (only good as a short use drag engine), and boost it with fuel and water. The output of the above engine was 260C steam and oxygen. I'm assuming that's after the turbine, so assume it's a good bit hotter at least pre-turbine.

Anyway, if you use JP-4 as a fuel (240C autoignition), or just kerosene (260C I think), you are sure whatever fuel you inject post decomposition chamber, will ignite, up to using up all the oxygen. Now, that's basically your common JP4+H2O2 rocket. Except, that exhaust is way too hot to be used by a turbine, it would melt it.

You have one more point of injection, this time, water. Just enough proportion so that it takes all the energy produced by the O2+fuel combustion, and the previous heated steam, and has everything end up right in the 1400-1500F range. This then goes to the turbine. FAR more total volume flow.

In terms of BTUs going in, you can get about 3x as much total energy as just decomposing H2O2 (1/3 the expensive H2O2 usage), and need only ~15% as much JP4 as H2O2 to balance that. If you use 70% H2O2 as the starting solution, you would want about as much plain H2O in the third stage as fluid in the first stage, with fuel being only 10% as much as those. 10:1:10, very rough, subject to correction.

Anybody know where/how to buy a turbine along the lines as the one used above? The planetary gear he used?

AnArKey, May 19 2004

Another peroxide idea Hydrogen_20Peroxide_20Car_20Motor
[bungston, Jul 26 2007]

[link]






       I find it hard to accept an idea that proceeds over the assumption that water-injector techs haven't evaluated H2O2 as a performance booster. That said, knock yourself out.
dpsyplc, May 19 2004
  

       type in "minihydro" in a search engine preferably a green one
Evenessence, May 20 2004
  

       That gets me a lot of stuff about small dams, water turbines and such. Could you do the search and find a good link that talks about what you actually mean?
jutta, May 20 2004
  

       There are people who already do this with hydrogen peroxide rocket drag racing cars. They just put jet fuel injectors after the catalyst. Instead of using a turbine to power the wheels, they just use the thrust from the rocket (the jet fuel acts like an afterburner).   

       I'm sure all that steam would corrode any metal turbine in no time. If you really wanted to do it right, you'd need a completely ceramic turbine.   

       If what you want is a lot of torque at the wheels, then this is a good idea. If what you want to to go really fast, a thrust engine is better.
thejini, May 20 2004
  

       English policeman: "Late for work are we Sir?"

The volume would increase, but what would happen to the pressure?
P.S. I don't like the way his gearbox stripped and blew the turbine on the second run. Maybe you shouldn't use the same gearbox?
Ling, May 20 2004
  

       Additional thought that may work better.   

       Use much cheaper 35% solution H2O2, through a catalyst pack. You would have some hot water, some wet steam, and oxygen. Downstream of this, you inject propane. A spark or glow plug would be needed to initate ignition. I'm fairly certain that even with wet steam and water around, with oxygen and propane together, ignition will occur. This would work better as the H2O2 solution is MUCH cheaper, and you balance the desired H2O/H2O2 ratio in one mix.   

       I don't want thrust. If I did, I'd just build a tried and true H2O2/JP4 rocket. I want torque to turn wheels.   

       I'm hoping a large turbo (I have a Garrett T18A, 3.75" diameter turbine wheel), with the compressor wheel and housing removed, with the shaft attached to the input of a 15:1 gear reducer, then going to the differential, would work. I'd have a road speed of about 131mph at a turbine speed of 80000RPM.   

       Of course I need to test this little engine/gearbox on a engine dyno. I can't find a gearbox that can take anything even remotely near 80000RPM.
AnArKey, May 20 2004
  
      
[annotate]
  


 

back: main index

business  computer  culture  fashion  food  halfbakery  home  other  product  public  science  sport  vehicle