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More efficient heater/AC

include O2 source in the room
(+1, -1)
  [vote for,

In order to get outside fresh/air, AC/heaters regularly throw out stale air and intake fresh air.

How about avoiding that and including oxygen cylinder in the room that keeps adding O2 to the room and also including a device (probably a chemical reaction device) that takes away CO2 from the room.

This will be more energy efficient than taking outside fresh air and reconditioning it.

VJW, Jun 07 2011

CO2 scrubbing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebreather
Used in diving [VJW, Jun 07 2011]

Grow your own fresh air http://www.ted.com/..._own_fresh_air.html
Kamal Meattle on TED [CyberCod, Jun 07 2011]


       Stale air has more issues than just CO2 / O2 levels. Does this system use a CO2 scrubber, or are you looking for a high-pressure O2 tank? Sounds dangerous.
RayfordSteele, Jun 07 2011

       // Sounds dangerous //   

       ... and therefore gets a bun. [+].   

       Lithium hydroxide cartridges ?   

       This is already implemented on submarines and spacecraft, and is therefore Widely Known To Exist.
8th of 7, Jun 07 2011

       [Ray] O2 tank can be kept outside house, if dengerous.
VJW, Jun 07 2011

       Better is what's called a counterflow fresh air ventilator.
ldischler, Jun 07 2011

       What [rayfo] said. "Staleness" isn't usually about CO2 or O2 levels (unless you've inadvertently locked yourself in a trunk, and which of us hasn't done that at some point?). It's more about temperature, humidity, and the various effluviata that machines and people produce.   

       And, in terms of energy efficiency, preparing a tank full of pure O2 is not a great way to begin.
MaxwellBuchanan, Jun 07 2011

       I believe it is called "keeping plants" and somehow it refreshes the oxygen in the house on a regular basis. Not sure how it works, but thats technology for you.
CyberCod, Jun 07 2011

       //keeping plants// Complete myth. You need hundreds of square metres of actively growing vegetation to replace the oxygen consumed by a single person. A couple of piddly little house plants may cause a net _consumption_ of oxygen due to decomposition of the potting medium.
spidermother, Jun 08 2011

       //keeping plants//   

       At night, plants intake O2 and release CO2. !!
VJW, Jun 08 2011

       In many air conditioned offices and supermarkets, IAQ (Indoor Air Quality, staleness) is precisely about CO2 levels and also humidity (assuming a stable temperature control algorithm. Depending on the Outside Air Condition recirculation and fresh air dampers modulate to trim first the temperature, then the CO2 level (taking priority). Temperature control in this mode is carried out via CHW and LPHW coils (or other modes. It is actually the MOST energy efficient way of doing this.
gnomethang, Jun 08 2011

       // Complete myth. You need hundreds of square metres of actively growing vegetation to replace the oxygen consumed by a single person.// No, besides the TedTalk link, there is a undersea observatory which generates all their oxygen with an algae tank. I just can't seem to find a link, but I did find some about the Navy testing the use of plants for oxygen on Nuclear subs.
MisterQED, Jun 08 2011

       Plants do not produce O2 at night, and produce CO2 instead, correct ?   

       On Subs, whatever O2 is produced by plants should get consumed back by plants at night/sleeping.
VJW, Jun 08 2011

       //Plants do not produce O2 at night, and produce CO2 instead, correct ? // Correct. (But a system whose biomass is increasing or being exported produces a net amount of oxygen, as daytime photosynthesis exceeds nighttime respiration).   

       OK, obviously plants can be used to supply oxygen indoors, and by using algae the area can be reduced, but the amount needed is much more than people tend to think.   

       You also need kilowatts of light per person, which means very large windows or powerful lights, either of which would add more heat to a building than would be saved due to reduced ventilation - fine when the heat is needed, but no good if cooling is desired.   

       That Ted talk link does not suggest producing all, or most, of a building's oxygen from plants. To do that you would need something more closely resembling the Biosphere project than a conventional building.   

       For example, a reasonably active adult averages about 150 watts of metabolic energy. Sugarcane, one of the most efficient photosynthesizers, is able to fix about 0.01 of the incident light energy. You therefore need about 15 kw of light, which would consume about 40 kw of electricity or require nearly 30 m² of optimally placed windows in the tropics, to supply one person's oxygen, day and night. You could squeeze that into a large room - but that's a best case scenario, with optimally fed and watered sugarcane growing under continuous, intense artificial light, consuming (or admitting into the building) tens of times the power any reasonable air conditioning installation would normally need to transfer ... need I go on?
spidermother, Jun 08 2011

       //nuclear sub// You could float the garden up with the periscope.
FlyingToaster, Jun 08 2011

       If you're at periscope depth, you could use the snorkel.
spidermother, Jun 08 2011

       and if you were on a nukular sub you could brute-force the CO2 back into C + O2.
FlyingToaster, Jun 08 2011

       spider mother you are mixing metabolic energy with O2 consumption. Most metabolic energy comes from the conversion of sugars not 02 respiration.   

       the average human consumes about 53 L of 02 an hour. I'm not sure what the efficiency level is, as each breath won't perfectly convert all the 02.   

       a leaf makes about 5ml of 02/hr but I have no clue on the areal density of leaves.
metarinka, Jun 10 2011

       //And, in terms of energy efficiency, preparing a tank full of pure O2 is not a great way to begin//   

       Ok, how about not liquifying O2, but O2 stored at just above atmospheric pressure.   

       And rather than being purists, how about less than 100% pure O2, say something like 70-80%, if it gives energy efficiency.   

       Energy efficiency is actually relative in this case, and depends upon difference between inside and outside temperature. e.g. Something that is efficient, for a difference of 30 degrees , may not be effeicient for a difference of 10 degrees.
VJW, Jun 10 2011

       //mixing metabolic energy with O2 consumption// To a fairly close approximation, a plant that fixes 1 joule of energy releases the same amount of oxygen as is consumed by an organism that metabolises 1 joule of food energy. Making that assumption kept the calculations simpler. The efficiency of metabolism makes no difference; the only requirement is that the food is completely metabolised. The ratio of fats to carbohydrates, and whether the consumer is growing, make a difference, but not a very big one.   

       Within a wide range of light levels, the potential rate of photosynthesis is closely proportional to incident light flux, so there is no need to get bogged down with oxygen production of individual leaves.
spidermother, Jun 10 2011


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