Half a croissant, on a plate, with a sign in front of it saying '50c'
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Public: [General]

For once... it fits. Welcome the CCV
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Long story short:

Surveillance camera gets stolen, makes no sense.
Shows wife's plates getting taken off her truck first.
Turns out dude swapped her plate for mine so that I would be driving around with the stolen plate we reported while douchebag is driving around with mine.
Both front and back plates on brothers truck get stolen and replaced with other plates.

Working the angles somebody is on the run and willing to risk being on camera at a motel and then muddy the waters by leaving an obvious thing to report while ensuring that what actually happened gets figured out late enough to ensure a get away. Con-dar went off something fierce. Very smart, almost too smart.

Turns out there's a reward for some guy who looks quite a bit like the dude on our cameras.
Well it's going on like day three now with like no follow up, Dude could be in Newfoundland by now.


There needs to be a database of citizens who feel like the shit they report is being overlooked linked so that those who actually give a shit can interface and maybe actually solve crimes our bureaucracy is just too fucking slow to handle.

That's the idea.

This fucker is driving around with my plate as we speak and yet...

... "m'yeah... we've got this stack to wade through before we get to that."

Certified Citizen Vigilantes.

You know it's coming.


       That's a mess.
There are cameras everywhere (a quick google & click gave me access to 691 "live" cameras in Ontario); isn't finding people like this the point? AI doing plate recognition on the fly?
Facebook (etc) has been used in the past to "rally the troops" of ordinary people to solve crimes & find lost things.
neutrinos_shadow, Apr 28 2022

       I think it's shear complacency. Whatever the crime... it's just the most recent gets ignored while past crimes get attention meanwhile time is of the essence.
Place your folder atop all of these others and we will get to them in time.


       Only those involved at the time give a shit.
Only those who habitually give a shit care about recent offences.

       Neither of these groups need funding, just a platform to do their thing.   

       So where is their platform?   

       Yo Elon!

       Where's their platform man?   

       I'd do it myself but I'm still working on my first million...   

       //Certified Citizen Vigilantes. You know it's coming.//   

       I'll bun that idea.   

       My son's a police officer and just got a dream transfer from a major US city with lots of murders, death and horror to the idyllic little town where he, his wife and my 3 grandkids bought their house. I'm so happy to have him out of there. America's cities are turning into unlivable crime ridden horror shows.   

       Where the hell is the WELL REGULATED militia that's promised in the constitution? I've suggested having to go through the same training as a police officer but not having the duties a police officer has. You're simply armed and in VERY SPECIFIC AND LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCES (yes, I'm yelling) you come to the protection of the people.   

       I suggest that idea and the reaction is "Police officers that don't give out parking tickets? Only question is, are you a billion times worse than Hitler or a trillion times worse than Hitler."
doctorremulac3, Apr 28 2022

       Wonder if this idea would be liked, a Halfbakery chat post where people can just post stuff like this, life stories, updates and stuff without the premise of a half-baked idea.
doctorremulac3, Apr 28 2022

       Don't start that discussion again doc. It didn't end well.   

       The good guy with the gun has had plenty of time to show up. We have plenty of good guys and plenty of guns. It's been that way for awhile.   

       My question is why would anyone want to go to Newfoundland?
RayfordSteele, Apr 28 2022

       Well then let's talk about taking the "Well regulated militia" out of the constitution.   

       Discussions aren't about ending well, they're about putting issues we face into the public forum.   

       Are you saying good guys with guns shouldn't be well regulated? I'm very pro second ammendment, but very pro having clear and specific rules for implementing the second ammendment.   

       //My question is why would anyone want to go to Newfoundland?//   

       People actually wanting to go to Newfoundland is just an urban legend.
doctorremulac3, Apr 28 2022

       And I'm glad you posted this 2 fries, but since it's a crappy thing that happened to you I don't know whether to bun it or bone it.   

       And the "2 fried" was a mistake I just caught. The D and S are right next to each other. Glad I caught it. I was probably too fried when I typed it.
doctorremulac3, Apr 28 2022

       I'm saying that nothing prevents good guys with guns from forming militias. We have several here in Michigan. But after awhile they tend to turn into poorly-organized groups of paranoid gun nuts of the type who try to kidnap governors, and so the 'well-regulated' part goes by the wayside, even when it is well-intentioned at the start. Gun groups are a magnet that way and so the psychology / demographics don't work out how you would want often in the real world.
RayfordSteele, Apr 28 2022

       //after awhile they tend to turn into poorly-organized groups of paranoid gun nuts of the type who try to kidnap governors, and so the 'well-regulated' part goes by the wayside//   

       Well then it's not well regulated is it?   

       My view is let's discuss having citizen militias. Then regulate them. Well.   

       But put it to a vote, let the people decide. It's their country. Well, in theory anyway.
doctorremulac3, Apr 28 2022

       Harder than you might think to well-regulate people who aren't generally inclined or incentivized to be under the scrutiny of organized government.
RayfordSteele, Apr 28 2022

       Well they'll always be criminals. Maybe the way to deal with them is a well regulated militia.   

       But one thing we can agree on. Nothing will ever happen with this, one way or another.
doctorremulac3, Apr 28 2022

       Let's draw a Venn diagram.   

       First let's consider 'People Who Own Guns.' Big circle. Group 1.   

       Next, 'People Who Own Guns Responsibily or would be allowed to own guns' based on their societal qualifications. Slightly smaller circle with some bits outside the other. Group 2.   

       Next, 'People who would be enthusiastic about being in a militia.' Group 3.   

       Next, 'People who you would actually want in a militia' vs. those who should be excluded for public safety. Group 4.   

       Next, 'People who would actually want their militia to be state-endorsed or sponsored.' Note the very small overlap with group 3 and 4.   

       Note that it's not that there's no overlap, it's that the majority non-overlap would set the tone of the group without some sort of oversight and quality control in terms of who gets and and doesn't. Those in the militia would be derided by unsponsored groups as sell-outs. Those outside would be seen as undesirable whackos.
RayfordSteele, Apr 28 2022

       Well, that's the sociological, complicated way to look at it, but you could also just say "Let's have more cops, but give them limited duties and have them pay for their training, arms, etc."   

       We already have something a bit similar, there are public service officers that deal with various issues where an armed officer isn't needed.   

       So at some point it's a matter of semantics. If the word "militia" turns people off just say you're expanding a branch of the police force. The civilian's auxiliary task force or something. Something that doesn't trigger people.   

       But don't obsess so much what the best product name for it would be, approach it from whether it would do any good or not. Police are expensive, why not have private citizen volunteers who pay for their own training? Make it the exact same training as the police go through including psychological screening. I can tell you from experience, that questioning is very rigorous. I've been questioned at length by two police agencies now by their psychological profilers just because I was the father of a potential officer applying for a job. I like that, that's what I want our police agencies to do.   

       But again, there are certain issues in society that are cast in stone. You're either a right wing nut or a left wing nut. There are no centrist nuts that are willing to look at possibilities so this is academic. Ain't gonna happen. Everybody hates each other too much to entertain doing something different.   

       Sort of semi, kind of quasi interesting to look at though.
doctorremulac3, Apr 28 2022

       So I once spent an instructive Saturday evening in A&E (US: ER). On the other side of the curtain from the bed I was sitting on, was a man who had set out to deliver some vigilante justice, armed with a stanley knife (US: box cutter) and a powerful sense of grievance (US: unsure on this one, don't want to be too inflammatory). He had met the target of his vigilantism, and then had his head bashed in with hammers. All he could say to his mother, at his bedside, and to the police officers, was "ugghhnnggng! ggnnaaauughghg!"
calum, Apr 28 2022

       // People actually wanting to go to Newfoundland is just an urban legend.   

       Have you ever been to Newfoundland? Don't knock it 'til you tried it.   

       And then you can knock it.
tatterdemalion, Apr 29 2022

       I'm not talking about weaponizing.
That just happens on its own.

       I'm talking about an internet platform for people to keep track of crime in their area, real-time.   

       You could customize update notifications for things like most recent, proximity to location, chances of passing through your area, etc.   

       It would just be an addition to current law enforcement.   

       Crime-Stoppers just isn't enough.
Real-folks mobilize way quicker.
...then they get armed.

       I'm just talking about an information system which lets citizens see what's happening in as small or large a range of crime as they wish and can keep six if they choose.   

       Evidence trails.   

       Having been in a similar(-ish) situation, I feel your pain 2-fries. However, your idea is so strewn about with danger that it should have a big "Warning: Minefield!" sign next to it.

For starters, who vets & verifies these "Evidence trails"? How do you know that the data on your database is either accurate or real? Who is going to pay for it & how do you ensure that they don't have an undue influence?

Just as a personal example, I once had someone come to my door who was looking for (or claimed to be looking for) witnessess to a rape. He was unsatisfied with the police investigation & had decided to go out & do some investigating of his own. He started out by telling me this & then gave a broad description of a person he thought was responsible. So, before I had even had a chance to speak, he had immediately invalidated, legally-speaking, any evidence that I might have had or could have given in court (not that I had any, as it happens) by telling me these details. He clearly wasn't a trained investigator & didn't know how to proceed without leading his witnesses & introducing an unwitting bias into proceedings.

For me, the solution to a non-functioning bureaucracy is the same one that it always was. Stop voting for it!
DrBob, Apr 29 2022

       Underpaid citizen volunteers who have to pay for their own training and then face the most dangerous situations is a recipe for disaster.  I had to go through a very similar screening to get my defense security clearance.  Even the best training / screening doesn't filter out everything.  Cops who get the best training, go through the screening and then have to face split-second decisions mess it up enough to make the headlines and society angry at them to where we are now with them feeling like fewer have their back.   

       Better off getting the police back to policing.  I think that was what the bruhaha was about awhile ago, but some jeenyus decided that 'defund the police' was the best label when the goal was to have more specialists like mental health officers, counselors, conflict resolution types who can deal with special needs citizens.   

       And honestly, sometimes the only difference between a good guy with a gun and a bad guy with a gun is a bad day at the office, a fight with the wife, a missed medication, a bottle of Jack Daniels, or any combination thereof.  That’s just one issue with trying to solve public gun problems with more public guns.   

       Couple of other thoughts:   

       The Jan 6th investigation showed that a focused group of motivated citizen investigators can work under the right sort of circumstances; ie. lots of cameras and data to sort through, a motivating cause to organize a largish group, etc.   

       The FBI has a tip submission website already.  Not sure how that differs reasonably at the moment other than more visibility of it.
RayfordSteele, Apr 29 2022

       I'm not sure where you stand on this. I think you said citizens can't be trained well enough to use guns in defense so we should just keep giving them guns without training and screening. Either that or you're saying stop giving guns to the commoners at all and reserve them for the rich only, because the elite will always be armed.   

       Not sure where you stand. I think you don't like the word militia, so I suggested a voluntary, self funded civilian auxiliary police force. You had to take my idea of them having the full training and screening a police officer would have and remove that to critique the idea so I'll clarify it.   

       Self funded police force with limited duties. Exact same training and screening, just paid for by the individual. Can only draw their weapon in circumstances where a criminal has a weapon that they're using against the people.   

       So the only difference is funding and limitations on duties. The only critique of that would be "Tax payers must be charged and parking tickets must be given out. Any deviation from that is un- acceptable."   

       But definitely don't call it a militia, that brand name is tarnished.   

       Just occurred to me, want to shoot down this idea? I'll do it for you. Police unions would never support this.
doctorremulac3, Apr 29 2022

       Offer training to any gun owner who would like to get it, even as a prerequisite to gun ownership if you would like. Just don't deputize them.   

       Imagine what that training becomes when cost- reduced to the bone and offered at America's finest community colleges in America's most troubled cities. Call me a pessimist but I see trouble brewing.   

       I'm not trying to shoot it down completely. But there are lots of landmines I'm trying to point out.
RayfordSteele, Apr 29 2022

       //Just don't deputize them.//   

       Well we're getting to the core of our variance of views on this.   

       I guess if I'm suggesting something new, it's the concept of an extremely limited duty police officer, which we have for non-armed auxiliary units, just not the other end of the duty scale for lack of a better word.   

       And keep in mind where this comes from, it's my defense of the second amendment. I suggested this as an alternative to taking guns away from the people.   

       And by the way, this might NOT be a good idea. If a totalitarian government would take over someday, bear with me here, they'd just deny these permits. Citizens disarmed, "problem" of an armed citizenry solved with the stroke of a pen. At that point the only people in society that are armed are criminals and rich connected elites. Working folks like me and you are just hoping those two groups are merciful to us at that point.
doctorremulac3, Apr 29 2022

       There are apps to report and track neighborhood crimes. I imagine that "neighborhood" would have a nationwide definition, so some Newfie could report your car if not your license plate. I thought ex-cons spent down time learning how to make license plates.
4and20, Apr 29 2022

Voice, Apr 29 2022

       But now the cops have that stolen plate number, so what did the perp achieve? Cop cars are equipped with automatic license plate readers I believe so they could just drive by a cop so equipped and a stolen plate alarm would go off.   

       Don't know how often cop cars have this feature, I'll ask my boy.
doctorremulac3, Apr 29 2022

       Yes there's a chance our douchebag might get caught by auto-plate readers but only because my wife noticed her plate number on my truck.
That was the dude's plan.
Betting that I wouldn't notice the plate change and so wouldn't report my plate as stolen.
He left me to take the rap for driving with a stolen plate while thinking mine would stay clean long enough to get away.

       Well, we're going on day four now and nobody has even asked to see the footage or called us or anything.   

       Forget Newfoundland... buddy could have driven to South America by now.   

       //Forget Newfoundland//   

doctorremulac3, May 01 2022

       A year ago today, a man named John Hurley was shopping in Arvada, Colorado, when someone started shooting. So Johnny went to the direction of the gunfire and shot the shooter.   

       Then the Arvada Police killed him.
RayfordSteele, Jun 16 2022


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