Half a croissant, on a plate, with a sign in front of it saying '50c'
h a l f b a k e r y
The word "How?" springs to mind at this point.

idea: add, search, annotate, link, view, overview, recent, by name, random

meta: news, help, about, links, report a problem

account: browse anonymously, or get an account and write.



Reverse E-Brake for Manual Transmission

Put an end to a major pain in the butt
  [vote for,

One thing I've noticed about driving a manual is that, if I'm stopped at a light facing up-hill, the second I let my foot off the brake to shift into 1st, or if I'm in 1st already but moving my foot from brake to gas, I roll backward. Not far, but I do roll. My problem is that my car sometimes doesn't want to let me shift into 1st (I have to shift into second, then up into 1st). I realize this is probably something I should get fixed, but it's not really a big deal. Only probelm is that while I'm busy tring to shift into 1st, encounter resistance, shift into 2nd, then back into 1st, I'm rolling downhill all the while. I've narrowly missed hitting the guy behind me several times.

What I'm proposing is a brake that prevents the wheels from spinning backward unless it's in reverse. If you need to roll it backward in neutral for whatever reason, you can pull a lever to release the brake.

21 Quest, Nov 03 2006

Google bmw hill holder http://www.google.c...+holder&btnG=Search
[Shz, Nov 03 2006]

"Pedal Locker for Easier Driving". http://www.halfbake..._20Easier_20driving
It would solve this problem. It wasn't as liked by people as I would have liked... [BJS, Nov 03 2006]

more hill holder http://www.answers.com/topic/hill-holder
[xandram, Nov 05 2006]


       Just out of interest, what's wrong with the handbrake?
Jinbish, Nov 03 2006

       You should select first gear and balance the clutch before you release the brake (which, as [jinbish] points out, should be the handbrake).
angel, Nov 03 2006

       Yeah, but that's inconvenient.
21 Quest, Nov 03 2006

       If you don't like being inconvenienced, you should get an automatic.
zen_tom, Nov 03 2006

       I enjoy driving a manual in every other situation... this is just one situation I prefer to avoid. If it can't be done, then I'll make do as is. I'm not going to drive an automatic just because of hills. But the fact that this can be turned on/off at the driver's convenience means this could be a good selling point for a lot of drivers. If you prefer to old-school it, don't turn on the brake. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be available to somebody else.
21 Quest, Nov 03 2006

       Twist your left foot so that you press both the brake and clutch pedals, then shift into second, downshift into first, hit the gas as you release both pedals, and you're on your way.
ldischler, Nov 03 2006

       I don't understand why you need to take your foot off the brake in order to select first gear, even if you do have to go to second gear first. (Some of my old cars needed that also, not just the ones without synchromesh on first gear.)

Anyway, it's entirely possible to do this; you just need to connect an electrically-operated free-wheeling hub back to front in the drive shaft and control it via the reverse-light switch.

[ldischler]: I prefer to heel-and-toe on the brake and accelerator, keeping my left foot just for the clutch.
angel, Nov 03 2006

       Quest, at all your hills, pull the e brake and run to the back of the car with a block tied to a rope. When the light turns green, make your attempt to go forward. Once you "get going" yank on the rope and pull the block into your car. Don't laugh to hard, I have watched my brother-in-law do this while we were off roading.
Chefboyrbored, Nov 03 2006

       This is a manuver that takes plenty of practice and skill. In Jamaica when they administer the driving test, they start you out on a hill and put a matchbook under the wheel. If you roll over the matchbook you fail the test.

       This is already baked. Subaru has what they call a "hill clutch" where you can take your foot off the brake and as long as you keep your foot on the clutch, the car will not roll backwards. Which gives you the ability to take your right foot off of the brake and then you can hit the gas and release the clutch without rolling backwards.
Jscotty, Nov 03 2006

       [Jscotty] are you from "yard"?
senatorjam, Nov 03 2006

       I've almost never had this problem with my car. There's a point where my car idles and I can use the clutch for a split second to use the idle to hold me in place while I switch my foot from brake to gas.

       Doesn't work on steep hills, obviously, but for the most part it's no problem.
shapu, Nov 03 2006

       I do pretty much the same thing as shapu, just make sure you dont kill the engine...

       I bet that many people have already thought of this exact idea and many others that would solve the same problem, in fact, I've even posted one that would solve the problem (see link if you want).

       For this same idea, I would add that it would do the same thing for the reverse gear.
BJS, Nov 03 2006

       What do you mean? So in reverse, it won't roll forward? Good idea!
21 Quest, Nov 03 2006

       The answer is simple.. we need to grow a third leg for driving.
MoreCowbell, Nov 03 2006

       Since when did learning to operate a car properly count as an inconvenience? Every spotty seventeen year old with a provisional UK licence practices hill starts as part of learning to drive. Proper handbrake use and clutch control are an integral part of the test.

       [m-f-d] redundant. Every car already has a device for solving this problem.
egbert, Nov 03 2006

       That would be nice, egbert, if it was done the same way in the U.S. My driving school used automatics.
21 Quest, Nov 04 2006

       If you pass your driving test on an automatic in US, are you allowed to drive a manual? You're not in UK; you get a restricted, 'automatic-only' licence.
angel, Nov 04 2006

       I'm sure paying an instructor for an hour's lesson to teach you how to use the handbrake properly would be far cheaper than retrofitting a redundant electrical device. Are you anywhere near Detroit? I'll show you myself for the price of a pint. All we need is a hill...
egbert, Nov 04 2006

       No, Washington. And I can make do on a hill, I shift fast enough. I just really don't like doing it.
21 Quest, Nov 04 2006

       //...pull the e brake and run to the back of the car with a block tied to a rope. When the light turns green,...//

       I like Chefboyrbored's idea. Except that I'm not going to do a chinese fire drill at every hilly stoplight. I suggest you hire a homeless person to live in your trunk and the only rent is that they have to jump out at every hilly stoplight, put the block under the car, give the 'pit stop' thumbs up (with big smile).
At green they have to grab the block, chase the car uphill, jump into the trunk, and close it behind them. Easy. Problem solved.

       Seriously- what would you guys do without me to lead the way? Rhetorical- don't answer.
NotTheSharpestSpoon, Nov 04 2006

       //Twist your left foot so that you press both the brake and clutch pedals//
That probably works better that what I used to do. I thought I twisted the right foot to work both the brake & gas, rolling my foot off of the brake. (I think the only hills in Houston are the freeway overpasses, so I don't have to deal with this much anymore)
Interesting that the gas/brake/clutch positioning remains the same for both left & right side driving alignments. I wonder if that makes it easier or harder to transition between the two.

       [21 Quest], I did something nasty to the transmission on my first car so I only had 2nd, 4th, & R. I lived where it was very hilly then and learned to manage starting on hills in 2nd. If you're already moving, you probably don't need to shift back to first.
Zimmy, Nov 04 2006

       [Zimmy], that's how I do the heel-and-toe gear shift; brake with the right toe (actually the left edge of the right foot) clutch with the left foot, per normal, and gas with the right edge of the right foot.

Common pedal arrangement definitely makes life easier. Some of the buses I used to drive had the gear selector on the right (this is in UK, remember), but there was no matching item on the left to confuse you. Transposing the gas pedal and the clutch would be a nightmare.
angel, Nov 04 2006

       Interesting idea, though I doubt it would be implemented due to extra cost. I admit to having no experience driving a real manual, but being a racing fan I personally favor the heel-and-toe approach--just use one foot to operate two of the pedals (usually gas and brake, although in this case it might be easier to do brake and clutch).
5th Earth, Nov 04 2006

       Jesus, you really can't do a hill start? In Australia, hill starts are part of your test, and yes, if you roll backwards at all, you fail. After driving for about, I dunno, a week or so, I took the handbrake out of the equation. I stop on the hill: right foot on brake, left foot on clutch, depressed, normall with tranny in 2nd' cause I engine brake while stopping. Change to 1st immediately, clutch still in. When the light goes green, release clutch until just before friction point, drop brake and engage accelerator. I never roll backwards, 'cause I know my clutch. If the hill is REALLY steep, I use the handbrake to make it easier.

       --NEVER try to change to 1st when the vehicle is rolling backwards. If your synchro is a bit off or worn, bad things can happen--.

       I don't see how this isn't purely instinctive to a competent driver. It isn't an inconvenience, 'cause I don't even think about it anymore. I had to stop and think just before to make sure I got the sequence right, because it's purely second nature.

       -are you a new driver?
Custardguts, Nov 05 2006

       //I don't understand why you need to take your foot off the brake in order to select first gear//


       YOu should never left-foot brake in a manual.

       Right foot brake. Left foot clutch. Select gear. Clutch up to biting point. Off brake whilst lift left foot slowly and depressing Right foot on the acellerator.

       Or, as others have said, handbrake.

       I was told when I took my test I would fail if I either used the left foot to brake or used the foot brake not the hand brake when coming to a complete stop for any reason. Rolling back is also a fail. This is in the UK.
webfishrune, Nov 06 2006

energy guy, Nov 06 2006

       // If you pass your driving test on an automatic in US, are you allowed to drive a manual? //

       Yes, and in the US regardless of what kind of car you take the test in, you are allowed to drive any type of vehicle up to 13 tons. Some states speficially have an automatic transmission restriction but thats only if you have a disability that would prevent you from driving a car with a manual trans.
Jscotty, Nov 06 2006

       //you are allowed to drive any type of vehicle up to 13 tons//
Is that so that Arnold can drive his Hummer?
Ling, Nov 06 2006

       When you get to hill, set down the slice of pizza and use the hand brake.
undata, Nov 06 2006

       Baken way back when. I don't have the specifics on when it was first implememted, but my great-grandfather's '51 Studebaker had a "hill brake" that held the rear brakes in place (I dont believe it was by the regular hydraulic system, some type of mechanical lock on the inside of the drum, but I could easily be wrong) when on an incline untill there was foward motion. But I understand the convinience here. I drive a standard truck when going hunting, and many times it can be very difficult to start uphill, even with a "granny gear" for first. And before everybody starts screaming "use the handbrake" again, the emergency brake on that particular truck is on the left side, vertical, up against the dash, with a steering wheel to get in the way. My other truck that I drove for years was a standard, and its emergency brake was a pedal on the floor, not a hand-lever. Not all cars have the same layout.

       On the heel-toe issue, I always used left foot for clutch, right heel on brake, and right toe on the gas, but I gues it just depends on individual vehicle layout.
Hunter79764, Nov 06 2006

       I honestly don't get why everybody here seems so religiously devoted to the hand-brake. I mean, really, were you breast-fed on a damn hand-brake? Maybe I just don't like using the GOD-DAMNED HANDBRAKE!!!

       I like driving a manual. I love every aspect of it, except starting on a hill. Apparently, after talking to several people I know, I'm not the only one who gets annoyed with it, which means there's a market for this. If your only objection to this idea is personal preference, then please abstain from commenting. I'm not suggesting that this be installed on *your* car, and if it *is* installed, please notice I also said, in the post: //you can pull a lever to release the brake.//

       You don't have to use it.

       All I'm hearing is a broken record... "hand-brake.... hand-brake.... hand-brake...."
21 Quest, Nov 07 2006

       heh. I wouldn't use the handbrake in that situation either. I normally think of it as a Parking brake.
I might suggest that you let the clutch out to the point of grabbing so it holds the car in place for the brief moment it takes to move from brake to gas.
I'm sure someone will tell me how bad that is on the clutch, though.
Zimmy, Nov 07 2006

       //All I'm hearing is a broken record... "hand-brake.... hand-brake.... hand-brake...."//

       ekarb-dnah... ekarb-dnah... ekarbdnah... ekardnah... erednuh... redruh... redrum... redrum... redrum...

       Why don't the voices stop?! Please, please, make the voices go away... don't make me brake again...
NotTheSharpestSpoon, Nov 07 2006

       The 'Hill Hold' feature on the sport BMW and Subaru is something that the rest of the industry will be moving towards very soon.
RayfordSteele, Oct 29 2007


back: main index

business  computer  culture  fashion  food  halfbakery  home  other  product  public  science  sport  vehicle