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# Superluminal anime

Movie with multiple time dimensions
 (+4) [vote for, against]

This is going to have to be animation, and it needn't be Bollywood actually. Anime might be better in fact, due to the lower frame rate.
Lorentz-Fitzgerald transformations are used in special relativity to calculate the relative mass, length and, crucially for this idea, the time dilation effect on moving objects. At the speed of light, time stands still - the square root of (one minus (the velocity squared over the velocity of light squared) is zero. At superluminal speeds, odd things happen. At twice the speed of light, the equation works out as the square root of minus three, for example. This is on the complex number plane, in other words, real numbers are inadequate to describe the passage of time for an object moving faster than light.
A reel of film can be considered to be a sequence of images changing in one dimension, which the projector converts into time by running the filmstrip past a lamp shining through the film and a lens. Instead of that, there could be a sheet of frames which vary in all directions, so that adjacent frames tend to resemble each other more than distant ones, though there would also be scene changes. A lamp under the sheet shines through the film onto a lens, and the film is moved horizontally, vertically and diagonally. The sequence of frames can be viewed horizontally, vertically, diagonally, along any column or row, as a random walk or in a specified path. All of this can of course be converted more efficiently to digital form, though the compression algorithm might be interesting.
Since anime is at eight frames per second, this would reduce the file size or the area of the sheet, so i would suggest a low frame rate. There are the same number of possible narratives as there are possible paths across the plane with sequential steps. There are also loops consisting of square paths which repeat and the like. It could be used to interact with the film, there could be figure of eight shaped loops, and if narratives are avoided, the technique could be used to portray objects with more than three dimensions. However, if the film is to be narrative, i suggest it be a CGI anime version of a Bollywood movie set on a spacecraft travelling faster than light.
Incidentally, i do realise the time dilation for superluminal velocities would lead to imaginary rather than complex values, but that's just a vertical filmstrip.
 — nineteenthly, Aug 31 2009

Psychic antineutrinos psychic_20antineutrinos
[Beanangel]'s idea, which led to this one [nineteenthly, Aug 31 2009]

Imagine this varying continuously between the three viewpoints [nineteenthly, Aug 31 2009]

Alter-dimension games Kata_2fAna_20Alter-Dimension_20Games
[bungston, Sep 04 2009]

OK, it doesn't have to be Bollywood. It probably doesn't work as well for Bollywood as it would for anime anyway.
 — nineteenthly, Aug 31 2009

Not only FTL Manga but around thirty thousand half hour episodes given one dimensional sequences alone.
 — nineteenthly, Aug 31 2009

It would be a real chore to try and store these films. I'm thinking the digital version would simply evolve to a 'choose your own adventure' with set divergence points.
 — RayfordSteele, Aug 31 2009

what prevents this from being a blurry muddy mess? It sounds like a "choose your own adventure" on acid in a sensory deprivation chamber.
 — WcW, Aug 31 2009

'Choose your own adventure' is certainly one way it could go, but not the only way. Without a narrative, it could amount to a cross-section of four- or five-dimensional shapes: i say five because of the possibility of stereo images on each frame. With a narrative, it needn't be a mess. For instance, a ball falling down in one direction can be a series of parabolic trajectories in another, each at a different height. Each frame is similar to the next. I have to admit i'm having difficulty coming up with a convincing set of stories, but then neither could i write a symphony, so that may be my own limitations rather than those of the medium. Maybe the approach to take is impressionistic rather than mainstream cinema here. Surrealism is one possibility. There are also films whose frames consist of abstract images. Alternatively, it could be used to view a scene from different angles. That could mean that a diagonal path would involve rotating the scene as it was happening. That's compatible with conventional film.
 — nineteenthly, Aug 31 2009

no clue wot ur on about... making a 3d film where d3 is parallel universes ?
 — FlyingToaster, Aug 31 2009

That's a possible approach but not the only option. Another would be having a film (remember this is CGI) starring dwarves where a crucial plot point involves being able to reach something high up, with alternate versions involving steadily higher characters until they're all giants and they, say, clonk their heads on something instead. Viewing that diagonally, the characters start off as dwarves, grow throughout the film, reach the object and become giants, when they proceed to clonk their heads. Or, they start off thin and end up fat, losing the ability to fit through a hole. Or a combination of those. In that way, yes, it's like alternate universes but it could be as simple as looking at the same scene from a different angle, like the famous Guardian advert.
 — nineteenthly, Aug 31 2009

So a single screening of the film would not be much different from, say, any Pokemon film in existence? You would have to watch the movie at different speeds to realize the FTL-influence (as opposed to the LSD-influence on Pokemon)
 — loonquawl, Sep 01 2009

I don't know, i've only ever been minimally aware of Pokemon, with the exception of Jiggly-Puff.
 — nineteenthly, Sep 01 2009

You had me at //anime version of a Bollywood movie set on a spacecraft// [+]
 — BunsenHoneydew, Sep 01 2009

Maybe that would be going far enough, but i prefer to go too far.
 — nineteenthly, Sep 01 2009

[+] 'cuz I finally got it.
 — FlyingToaster, Sep 03 2009

now on your film, when you change a parameter, do you immediately split off all environs or only at which time the change affects them ? ie: Grumpy hitting his head on the shelf doesn't affect Old Mother Hubbard at all until such time as her dog bites the dwarf's arse because he stepped on it's tail because he wasn't watching where he was going because of the headache.
 — FlyingToaster, Sep 04 2009

I'm reminded of the subjunctive TV in Gödel, Escher, Bach, which allows reality to slide along various dimensions. The characters watch replays in a football game as it would have played out had the pass not been fumbled, then if there were 4 rather than 3 spacial dimensions, if addition were not commutative, etc.
 — spidermother, Sep 04 2009

How does that last one work? I've got it lying around somewhere, i'll have to look.
 — nineteenthly, Sep 04 2009

I think that's where it starts to fail. I haven't read it for a while.
 — spidermother, Sep 04 2009

 I have been thinking about this. I think that a temporal component more or less corresponding to ordinary experience is important for our understanding of a story as a story.

 Rather than anime (which usually entails a story) the concept here might be applied to kinetic art. Pure abstractions as generated by a formula would lend themselves to this concept. Representational art but again governed in depiction by an underlying formula might also be something which could be changed to simulate superluminality and would come closer to what is proposed here.

Finally, we have discussed extra dimensions in videogames / Tetris on the HB which seems similar in some ways to this idea.
 — bungston, Sep 04 2009

I wonder if Memento would still be a good film if the scenes were reversed, but that one's for IMDB.

Kinetic art would be easier to do, but in a way that would spoil it because it would be less challenging. It would be nice to do that though.

There have been philosophical suggestions that there could be more than one time dimension which i don't think connect to the alternate universe notion. I'm not there yet, but i think exploring that could be fruitful here.
 — nineteenthly, Sep 04 2009

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