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Undercover Cop Street Musicians

Which one of those street musicians are cops? Criminals will have to assume they all are.
  [vote for,

I like street musicians and always throw them a buck even if they're lousy.

I also like the idea of having cops around, both uniformed and undercover to catch bad guys.

The idea of combining them would be two-fold: When you hear street music nearby, criminals would think "This area may be under the protection of an armed officer." and we'd get to have some nice live music as we walk down the street as well.

They'd rotate from city to city so they wouldn't get recognized. I think the kind of person who wanted to take this job would be pretty interesting. "I can hit all the notes to this song on key as well as a bullseye at 100 yards."

doctorremulac3, Aug 14 2012

Not exactly widely known, but... http://www.facebook...268439535686&type=3
[normzone, Aug 14 2012]

http://7.62x54r.net...inID/MosinHumor.htm [FlyingToaster, Aug 15 2012]

Bad Boys by Marley http://www.youtube....watch?v=S9XEGBrA99E
[doctorremulac3, Aug 16 2012]

El Mariachi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Mariachi
"Play It Again, Sam ..." [8th of 7, Aug 17 2012]


       I'd be more inclined to check as to whether the violin case is open or closed to recieve offerings.
skinflaps, Aug 14 2012

       I'm sure this is probably baked in all sorts of surveillence methods.
RayfordSteele, Aug 14 2012

       Let me clarify: This wouldn't be secret, this program would be widely advertised. The only information not available would be exactly which of those street musicians were also cops.   

       The sound of street music, already something very pleasant, would also be the sound of a protector of the public being nearby. (possibly)   

       I think it would give a kind of "all is well" vibe to public places.
doctorremulac3, Aug 14 2012

       ...and the money in their hats, guitar cases, cans etc would all go to charity.
doctorremulac3, Aug 14 2012

       I'd certainly attack more street musicians than usual.
rcarty, Aug 14 2012

       //bullseye at 100 yards//   

       You don't know many cops, do you?
ytk, Aug 14 2012

       If it was //widely advertised// no one would give money to the poor street musicians, because they would assume they were making police man salaries.
xandram, Aug 14 2012

       //I'd certainly attack more street musicians than usual.//   

       Well, if he turned out to be an armed cop that probably wouldn't be such a great idea.   

       //The first time a cop broke his cover to apprehend a shoplifter or pickpocket he'd lose his effectiveness//   

       As I said, they'd rotate from city to city.
doctorremulac3, Aug 14 2012

       No, it's just that the voices in your head are particulalrly loud and insistent today, [bigs].
8th of 7, Aug 14 2012

       <wince> I'ma let somebody else jump all over your explanation [21] but meanwhile, for a concise list of the differences between the AK-47, M-16 (both are assault rifles, btw) and an old battle rifle, go to <link>
FlyingToaster, Aug 15 2012

       What if they have menacing song choices like 'We're gonna get you' or 'guilty'?
Phrontistery, Aug 16 2012

       "Bad Boys"? (see link)
doctorremulac3, Aug 16 2012

       I can think of nothing creepier than being stalked by perfectly-harmonised serenading policepersons. It's enough to make any crim turn over a new leaf, or at least invest in earplugs.
Phrontistery, Aug 16 2012

       Like to the tune of "Sweet Adeline"?   

       Cop: "Hands on the carrrrr"   

       Backup officers: "Hands on the carrrrr"   

       "Now spread 'em puuuunk"   

       "Now spread 'em puuunk"   

       "Well, what's in your front pocket herrre?"   

       Perp: "Hey that's my junk!"   

       Backup cops: "You grabbed his junk!"
doctorremulac3, Aug 16 2012

       Well, they could play the entire Police back catalogue, not to mention "I fought the law, and the law won"..
not_morrison_rm, Aug 17 2012

       You know, the right song selection might be good psychological warfare against potential criminals, the latter example you gave being a good one.   

       I think this idea, good or bad stems from my hearing that samurai monks used flutes that doubled as weapons. I don't know why I always loved that idea so much. I think it's the message "I can play beautiful music with a flute or smack you upside the head with a stick, it's your choice."
doctorremulac3, Aug 17 2012

       The ladies working vice sing "What you gonna do with all that junk, all that junk inside your trunk"...   

       And then you hear "Julie's been working for the drug squad, Julie's been working for the...drug squad...She could even look you in the eye..."
normzone, Aug 17 2012

       [21Q] check again.   

       Battle Rifles: Designed with trench warfare in mind; all of these are good up to at least 6-800m easily, weigh 10-15 pounds, loaded.   

       Lee Enfield - 3.5kJ - .303Brit
M1 Garand - 3.8kJ - .30-06
M14, FN-FAL - 3.5kJ - 7.62x51mm

       Assault Rifles: Designed for small packets of people running around the country/cityscape against other small packets of people. Weight: 5-7 lbs and useful in fully automatic mode.   

       M1/M2 Carbine - 1.2kJ - .30Carbine (probably 300m on a really good day)
M16 - 1.6kJ - 5.56mm NATO (400m)
AK-47 - 2.0kJ - 7.63x39 (can hit the side of a barn from inside the barn)

       or, to make a long story short, you may notice that not only is the AK-47 cartridge much shorter than the other 7.62 cartridges, it's even shorter than the M16 cartridge.   

       Neither the AK47 or M16 are battle rifles.
FlyingToaster, Aug 17 2012

       It's my understanding that an assault rifle is simply a weapon that was inspired by the German's mixing a submachine gun with an automatic rifle. The Sturmgewehr 44, literally "storm (or assault) rifle (model of 19)44", was the first such combo weapon. So the "assault rifle" title was just a catchy propaganda name that stuck rather than a specific designation of a particular kind of weapon. Now other weapons that followed, the AK and the M16 do pretty much the same thing so they're "pretty much" assault rifles. You could theoretically call them "storm rifles". If that first German weapon was called a "Smurf Duster" we might refer to the M-16 and similar weapons as such.   

       To illustrate the diff, there are automatic rifles like the BAR that aren't called assault rifles because they don't shoot a pistol cartridge and "assault weapons" that aren't necessarily assault rifles but are, to my understanding, anything that looks scary like it's something you'd see in a gangster movie.   

       I'm sure that clears things up.
doctorremulac3, Aug 17 2012

       // there are automatic rifles like the BAR that aren't called assault rifles because they don't shoot a pistol cartridge and "assault weapons" that aren't necessarily assault rifles but are, to my understanding, anything that looks scary like it's something you'd see in a gangster movie.... I'm sure that clears things up. //   

       Well, no.   

       The BAR and the Bren are "squad level" light support weapons; capable of (and intended for) both repetetive and automatic fire, and capable of a high degree of accuracy. The term Light Machine Gun is applicable. Both weapons are capable of being deployed as a personal weapon, the primary problem being ammunition.   

       Generally speaking, Sub-Machine Guns fire pistol rounds like 9mm P and .45ACP; the M1 carbine is "almost but not quite" an "assault rifle". Then there are Light, Medium and Heavy machine guns; medium and heavy machine guns typically fire a "fullbore" round like the 7.62 NATO.   

       It's more that there's now a continuum of personal weapons, with the traditional Pointed Stick (even in these times, remarkably effective in the right circumstances) at one end, and (at one time) the Davy Crockett at the other.   

       What was the question again ? And where was Antonio Banderas when all this was being decided ?   

8th of 7, Aug 17 2012

       //Well, no.//   

       To which point? But make it quick I'm leaving town for vacation in 5 minutes.   

       Too late, gotta go.
doctorremulac3, Aug 17 2012

       It's probably just his brain going on vacation ... seems to happen a lot ...   

       // they are too heavy for a single infantryman to carry for extended periods of time. //   

       Ummm … no   

       <anally-retentive gun-geek pedantry>   

       An infantryman can carry an LMG (L3, Bren) or a BAR without too much difficulty; but add more than a couple of mags of ammo and you've got a problem. So the gun team needs one guy with the weapon, cleaning kit and ready-use ammo, plus two or three more with spare barrels, more ammo, and their own personal weapons; in WW1, Vickers gun crews typically carried pistols as sidearms, despite mostly being enlisted men or NCO's - pistols were otherwise (except for tank crews) a de-facto rank badge of officers.   

       Don't make us load up the PowerPoint …   

       </a-r g-g p>
8th of 7, Aug 17 2012

       /they'd rotate from city to city/   

       Always one step ahead of the FBI. I envision this as sort of a cross between The A Team and Josie and the Pussycats.
bungston, Aug 17 2012

       BAR, Bren, SAW-240 are light machine guns. A bit of disambiguation may be called for:   

       machine gun:
- TV: anything capable of fully automatic fire.
- Really: a *very* heavy weapon, the lightest of which is usually carried by the biggest guy in the squad, assisted by the second biggest carrying the ammunition.

       assault weapon:
- TV: anything shootable that doesn't *look* like a hunting rifle/shotgun, dedicated target rifle, or pistol, wieldable by one person. It's a catchphrase promulgated by anti-gun lobbyists, solely for the purpose of obfuscation.
- Reality: no such thing.

       //[light machine guns] they are too heavy for a single infantryman to carry for extended periods of time. // //Ummm … no//   

       LMG's are pretty useless as personal weapons. While they're sturdy enough to handle being fired automatically, they're also too heavy to carry around comfortably, can't be swung around fast, and both the long magazine and bipod gets in the way. //Vickers// is not "light" by any definition. A BAR *might* be considered a personal weapon by somebody of Schwarzeneggian proportions.   

       SAW crew is a two-way street, the rest of the gang is protecting them as much as the other way'round.
FlyingToaster, Aug 17 2012

       That may indeed be what you meant, but it's not what you wrote …   

       // LMG's are pretty useless as personal weapons //   

       We beg to differ.   

       // they're also too heavy to carry around comfortably //   

       That rather depends on how much other gear you're carrying.   

       // can't be swung around fast, and both the long magazine and bipod gets in the way.//   

       Admittedly a disadvantage for FISH. But in open country, there are advantages.   

       // //Vickers// is not "light" by any definition.//   

       It is a medium machine gun; standard rifle ammo, but a crew-served weapon. We mentioned it only to point out that a Vickers crew had so much load to carry that the standard infantry rifle was not an option as a sidearm. However, since the firepower of the MMG substantially exceeded the combined firepower of the crew with rifles, as a group they were better armed overall.   

       // A BAR *might* be considered a personal weapon by somebody of Schwarzeneggian proportions //   

       Tell It To The Marines … at Iwo Jima, and many other engagements, BARs were often used as such. They're lighter than a Lewis …
8th of 7, Aug 17 2012

       ...and Clark.
normzone, Aug 18 2012

       If you're coming around the corner with 50lb of Vickers, and I'm coming the other way with a pointy stick, I may have to change my underwear, but at least I'll be able to.
FlyingToaster, Aug 18 2012

       //Counterpoint: //The BAR and the Bren are "squad level" light support weapons; capable of (and intended for) both repetetive and automatic fire, and capable of a high degree of accuracy. The term Light Machine Gun is applicable.// //   

       RIght, which is why I said they're NOT assault rifles, they're automatic rifles. Although what I said about the smaller cartridge isn't strictly speaking true though. My son carried a M-249 SAW on his first tour in Iraq with the Marines. This is most definitely not an "assault rifle" but as far as I can see that's just because you can load a massive ammo can onto it. It uses the same ammo as a M- 16 and has a similar barrel length but it doesn't remind people of a Sturmgewehr 44 so it's a "squad automatic weapon". Pretty sure you can take single shots with it but I'll check. I'm beginning to think "assault rifle" should have the same quotation marks you put around "assault weapon". I'll ask him about it. He's the definitive expert on machine guns having made his living with them for 4 years.   

       //And you sure seem to have a lot of vacations for a person of the employed variety.//   

       Just because you work doesn't mean you have to like it. I take off every chance I get. These trips are more like probational furloughs from work than vacation. Saw Adam Carolla live last night and I'm going to watch him race at Laguna Seca tomorrow. But today it's a glass of wine or two on the beach which is my true calling in life.
doctorremulac3, Aug 18 2012

       Ok, I checked and here's the word on assault rifles from somebody who's used them.   

       It's called an assault rifle because it's used in assaults. It's got enough accuracy and controllability to set up your assault and enough ammo get the job done when that assault turns into a close quarters engagement. It's also adjustable to match whatever part of that assault you're engaged it from single shot, to burst to full auto. Oddly enough, full automatic isn't always the best way to hit a target and the assault weapon is built with this in mind. It's also got to be light enough to be maneuverable in a close combat situation. A BAR by comparison is the size and weight of a canoe.   

       The SAW is for suppressive fire and otherwise laying down big walls of lead. It's got two modes, "no" or "go" and it's not particularly controllable.   

       (Note: I edited this post after the below comments were written because I wrote "assault weapon" when I meant to write "assault rifle". This is why the below comments don't make sense now. However, they do however critique the goofy concept of there being such a thing as an "assault weapon" so I'll leave them.
doctorremulac3, Aug 18 2012

       no no no no no no no.   

       "assault weapon" isn't a real (compound) word; it's just a catchphrase so all the various factions of anti-gun people, ie:   

anti-converted-from full to-semi-only
anti-could-be-converted-to full-auto-by-a-gunsmith
anti-could-be-converted-to full-auto-with different-parts
anti-looks-like an-assault-rifle
and probably a few more,
can stick together under a common anti-banner which wording none-too-subtly implies such as machinery used in criminal assaults.

       It's an insult, not only to the English language, but to soldiers.   

       The word that you're looking for is "assault rifle".   

       SAW's are plenty controllable: much moreso than an assault rifle; they're just not quickly moveable.
FlyingToaster, Aug 18 2012

       <Inevitable additional pedantry>   

       Yes, you're right, and no, you're wrong.   

       The term "assault weapon" is too open ended to have any technical meaning. It's a portmanteau word.   

       An assault weapon doesn't have to be a firearm; that's just an interpretation.   

       Now, "assault rifle" is sufficiently narrow to be aalmost useful. it implies:   

       i) A firearm with a rifled barrel. ii) A firearm with a stock, allowing it to be fired from the shoulder, or intended to be manipulated using two hands. iii) Calibre and muzzle velocity chosen for effectiveness at medium and short range, plus relative portability of the ammo/mag assembly in terms of mass and overall size.   

       The point is that in any given combat situation, the assaulting force requires a specific mix of weapons appropriate to the situation. In a company attack, that could mean that although the majority of the force would use an AR16 or an AK47, other individuals might be in contact using a knife, grenades, shoulder launched rockets, or be sitting in a tree some distance away with their dear old Lee-Enfield, ready to knock over any of the Ungodly who show themselves at twice the accurate range of their weapons. So that's an assault rifle, right?   

       The definition of a weapon class is strictly dependant on its physical characteristics, not the circumstances in which it is used.   

8th of 7, Aug 18 2012

       or, while "assault rifle" is a military contextual term, "assault weapon" is a civilian contextual term which implies that such a weapon is meant to be used for criminal assault.   

       <goes off to find a topper for 8/7's definition>
FlyingToaster, Aug 18 2012

       // civilian contextual term which implies //   

       "... a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
8th of 7, Aug 18 2012

       Not "nothing", more "not not nothing". With very little surprise it may be noted that a purpose-designed hunting or target rifle is better at the aforementioned pastimes than an ex-military rifle or some lookalike rifles, albeit at a greater unit cost and decreased broad-spectrum usefulness and reliability.   

       However forcing somebody to buy a different rifle for each day of the week, for hobbies/skillsets they might not be completely involved in, is more than a bit silly.   

Personally, if I had my druthers (and the money, and was willing to invest in a decent safe, and had less acquaintances who are idiots) I'd own an inch-pattern FAL (preferably Cdn or at least with a Cdn dust-cover), a No.4 Lee-Enfield (local historical), a Steyr Y1903/14 rifle (M-S's are neat), and a decent low-powered .177 repeater air-rifle (for actual shooting). The FAL, which I personally am least likely to accidentally shoot myself or anybody else with, is one of the top targets on the anti-gun hitlist and they've succeeded up here in moving it to the "prohibited" category mostly because it's a scary looking gun.
FlyingToaster, Aug 18 2012

       (My post) //It's called an assault weapon//   

       AHHHHRG! Misprint alert. I meant to write "assault rifle" not "assault weapon". "Assault weapon" is a bs term that means absolutely nothing. You can see what I meant in previous posts when I specifically addressed that.   

       //SAW's are plenty controllable: much moreso than an assault rifle; they're just not quickly moveable.//   

       Well, no. Dragging my son back into it since he's used both the SAW and the M-16 in combat he explained it this way: With an M-16 you can aim and shoot and aim and shoot again. With a SAW you've got immediate lift and movement to the right and after the first couple of rounds your third shot will be off target unless you're pretty good. It takes a great deal of skill to use a SAW in combat. That's the reason M16 and other assault rifles have single shot and burst modes, specifically so they'll be more controllable.   

       With your permission, I'll edit my explanation of what an "assault rifle" is by taking out the "assault weapon" misprint because it's a pretty good explanation except for that misprint.   

       And I'd be embarrassed to be on record as thinking the term "assault weapon" meant anything. It's in fact one of my pet peeves. Like when news people use the term "automatic weapon" for anything that's not a muzzle loader.
doctorremulac3, Aug 19 2012

       //Like when news people use the term "automatic weapon" for anything that's not a muzzle loader.// LOL, okay that's a new one on me; I'll try to remember... are you one of those people who wander through the bush with .75 caliber muzzle-loaders ? I always wanted to try one but I watched too many Bugs Bunny cartoons when I was a kid: I'd be thinking it'd go off while being loaded.   

       re:SAW: doing a bit of backpedaling of my own, I meant that in full auto it's more controllable than a rifle in full auto... but after a bit of research I'll admit that it might not entirely be true concerning the M-16 vs. M-249 which appears to have been designed solely as a personal light-caliber no-compromise machine-gun.   

       However it was the case a few decades ago when I carried a SAW that was a heavily reinforced full-auto version of the standard issue rifle.   

       Never saw combat; kudos to your son and his fellows for the job they're doing.
FlyingToaster, Aug 19 2012

       Thank you FT, will do. And same to you for your service. You don't need to have seen combat to have been helping your country out. In fact, standing the line scaring off the bad guys is the optimum use of the military and if everything works right we don't have to fight.
doctorremulac3, Aug 19 2012


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